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An Open Letter To Our US Members.  
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3802 times:

(Mods - i know this should really be in the North Korea Missile Thread, but it addresses wider issues, and probably needs its own thread - hope thats ok.

Folks - not having a dig at you guys personally, just trying to express my opinion, its nothing personal, ok?)

HOW HAS IT COME TO THIS?

You should all be praying that North Korea doesn’t get the bomb, because there will be people in the US Government advising a pre-emptive strike at that point. It’s been implicitly-threatened enough times. Reading some of the replies here, some of you seem happy with that. You can keep your bird flu, Islamic terrorism, AIDS, and global warming, the thing that really worries me, the thing that profoundly terrifies me, is the prominence of the people who would advise a pre-emptive strike, and even more so, the folks who would stand by and let it happen with their tacit agreement.

You can all then watch on CNN, NBC and the rest, Ohio submarines make North Korea "Cease to exist" as that Congressman said. See the mushroom clouds by podcast. Watch the destruction streamed live from MSN. You "take out" the threat, and kill 23 million people in the twinkling of an eye. The scary thing is how many of you would accept that. Perhaps you’ve joked about it. We’ve seen it in the Middle East. Throwaway, laughing comments about turning some country or other into a vast sheet of glass, or the biggest parking lot on the planet. As if it’s some kind of game.

Nuking North Korea will put the USA up there with Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia in terms of great, woeful, awful wrongs inflicted on this planet. Blame Kim Jong Il all you want, but he can be dealt with, and so can the nuke threat - there is no excuse for using nuclear weapons as a first strike weapon today. The "he started it" routine wont matter when the radioactive dust settles, and the embers of what was an entire nation fade.

Kim Jong Il and his plainly dangerously unhinged political Party want the bomb, because they want a small cigar shaped, roughly six foot long guarantee that US and South Korean troops will not enter North Korea and end their political dream, and take their power from them. When you are cut off from the rest of the world for so long, you become afraid, and I don’t doubt the whole of North Korea are fervently in favour of the bomb as a tool to maintain their Communist ideal. They see the US, Japan, and the rest as the enemy, and are afraid that they will come and murder them in their beds, as North Korean propaganda would be eager for them to believe. Propaganda, fear of the outside world, sanctions, and a repressive and tyrannical regime means that it is "them". They are united in their fear of the US.

Put all the political pressure on you like, they have survived the most severe sanctions the rest of the world can impose, and this has only strengthened their desire to acquire the bomb. They will get it sooner or later, there’s very little anyone can do to prevent that, but to listen to the Hawks in congress, or any of your politicians for that matter (as personally, I cannot see a decent, honourable, and honest one among them) who urge rapid military action, up to and including a "surgical" nuclear strike (a total, evil misnomer if ever there was one) is sheer lunacy.

The problem is compounded by a new generation of Americans, raised on a diet of MTV and Fox News propaganda, who have a lethal combination of hate and ignorance. They hate blindly because they are compelled to, at the faceless terrorist menace that stalks them from the shadows, and because that’s what your media says being Patriotic is. The ignorance comes from the time that has passed since the horrors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and the memory of such events fades over time. Everyone knows what it is; they just don’t care as long as it’s not on US soil. A Nuclear weapon is not just another bomb. It should not be regarded as just another part of the inventory. It IS a game changer. A game ender. Add a Hollywood arrogance of the awesome military power the USA yields and the ease at which it can dispense with entire nation's military strength in just a few hours of bombing, just like they do in the movies and in the video games, and you have a problem. There are many who understand the true significance of what it means to "nuke" someone (a slang Americanisation, to dumb down the term for what amounts to strategic genocide), but these are too few, and the rest of the civilised world prays that these fine people within the US Government and in wider society can make their voices of reason heard. Your Government is democratically elected, and the men and women who will push that button will do so in your name. Many of you may even be in favour of it. From over here in good old Blighty, that worries us a great deal. Our biggest ally you may be, but you scare us to death. There’s a famous saying – “the fastest way for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing”.

I love the US, and I love the people there. Americans are generally kind-hearted, caring people who just want to do the right thing usually. We all have our bad apples, but Americans I meet are good people, and nobody here in Europe can understand how such an evil, corrupt, and mendacious regime as the crooks who are running your Government can speak for all of you. How did that happen? You are good people – doesn’t the fact that the Bush regime speaks for you make you feel queasy? I don’t like Blair, although he is not in the same ballpark as Bush, but I physically cannot stomach the fact that this man is our leader and representative. How the mighty have fallen. We are two great nations run by packs of self-serving liars. The anger over it all is only offset by the awful, plunging realisation that the political opposition are just as bad.

The rest of the world perceives you as greedy, but I think its humanity that is greedy, and the US cannot be judged just because it has, or has the capability to have/buy everything it needs. Americans are fine people - how then, has it come to this? Where some relic dictator, frenziedly trying to glue over the cracks in the crumbling edifice of his own political ideals in the face of the onslaught of human progress and technology, can bring such a nation of genuinely fine people to this? Willing your own country to press the big red button?

Launch nuclear weapons against North Korea, and millions will die. It is possible that not all 23m North Koreans will die, but it’s only the truly desensitised who would argue over how many million would face the white fiery immolation, or the fate of the gaunt, dead-man-walking radiation poisoning victim. The whole Far East will be plunged into Economic crisis, which will spread across the globe like a poisonous cloud, and recession will grip the Globe. We know this. It’s not even debatable. The world will recoil in horror at the sudden, blinding genocide far in excess of anything seen in modern times, and fully comparable with that perpetrated by the Nazis in Germany, Pol-Pot in Cambodia, and Stalin in Russia. If you remember, "they were a threat, and we have eliminated that threat for the good of our security and the good of our people" is a hauntingly familiar rhetoric. We all have a problem with the Arab/Muslim world right now, but wipe out North Korea and you may find a cataclysm of recrimination and hate that will make the current problem look like a minor PR issue. Doesn’t that scare you? Think of us, poor, gutless UK, totally at the behest of the US, and your tattletale lapdog in Europe. Do we deserve the backlash you will incur? No, but it will come nonetheless.

I’ve ruminated enough. When you watch your retired three-star General on CNN tonight, sabre-rattling about “a likely response” to North Korea’s planned missile tests, please know that this is one Americaphile who is praying that North Korea does not get a nuclear warhead, because if it does, and the Hawks in the White House are not listened to.

Rgds,

CHRISBA777ER


What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
107 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3809 times:

Translation: make a lot of noise, but don't dare do anything! But if HE fires a missle, it's your fault anyway.

User currently offlineLHMARK From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3807 times:

There will not be a pre-emptive strike. It could be used as a pretext to invade South Korea, and the US military is too extended in "other ventures" to successfully combat something like that short of using nukes.


"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineFutureUALpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2605 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3760 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
You should all be praying that North Korea doesn’t get the bomb

I, for one, am hoping that they do not develop said weapon(s), nor do I know anybody who is hoping that they develop that kind of weampon.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
The problem is compounded by a new generation of Americans, raised on a diet of MTV and Fox News propaganda, who have a lethal combination of hate and ignorance. They hate blindly because they are compelled to, at the faceless terrorist menace that stalks them from the shadows, and because that’s what your media says being Patriotic is.

Your gross over generalization of America's youth is much to your detriment, as IMO, it discredits your post...perhaps you should say that the younger generations have been influenced by, however speaking as one of those "raised on a diet of MTV and Fox News propaganda." Given your post you assume to have a bead on the pulse of our youth, however I would like to take this opportunity to point out that the people my age whom I have met and gotten to know, are not constituted of hate and ignorance, and everybody I have met has their own opinions about these subjects, ranging from "turn the Middle East into a parking lot" to "lets peacefully and democratically solve these problems. I cannot think of one person that I know who "hates blindly", much less hates at all. Again, do not stereotype and generalize the U.S., especially today's youth. We have plenty of bad apples, but I have seen, and am surrounded by many of the brightest minds, and best people I have ever met.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
The rest of the world perceives you as greedy, but I think its humanity that is greedy, and the US cannot be judged just because it has, or has the capability to have/buy everything it needs.

Agreed, and for the most part...we are greedy. That is part of how the US is where it is today as a country, both good and bad.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
Launch nuclear weapons against North Korea, and millions will die. It is possible that not all 23m North Koreans will die

So, let me say then, hypothetically, if N. Korea nukes one of our major metropolitan areas, kills potentially millions of Americans, are we to do? Sit with our thumbs up our asses and say golly gee, that was rude! F*ck no! I do not judge the North Korean people by there leadership, and I would hate to see them erased from the planet, but if push comes to shove, you are damn right I wouldnt have a problem with the United States firing back, and then some.



Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3745 times:

Threre are militaristic hotheads everywhere, including in the UK, who will always call for the most aggresive military response possible to anything. Yes, they are louder over here lately, but your over generalization not withstanding, they don't control the government.

In todays environment, its likely the only way physical force will be used against N Korea is if they explode a bomb outside their borders. Should that happen, then yes, Pyongyang will likely cease to exist.

Beyond that, the US will continue to use harsh rhetoric, while pusing China, Russia and our allies in Asia to step up to the plate and control this crisis.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3744 times:

Quoting FutureUALpilot (Reply 3):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
The problem is compounded by a new generation of Americans, raised on a diet of MTV and Fox News propaganda, who have a lethal combination of hate and ignorance. They hate blindly because they are compelled to, at the faceless terrorist menace that stalks them from the shadows, and because that’s what your media says being Patriotic is.

Your gross over generalization of America's youth is much to your detriment, as IMO, it discredits your post...perhaps you should say that the younger generations have been influenced by, however speaking as one of those "raised on a diet of MTV and Fox News propaganda." Given your post you assume to have a bead on the pulse of our youth, however I would like to take this opportunity to point out that the people my age whom I have met and gotten to know, are not constituted of hate and ignorance, and everybody I have met has their own opinions about these subjects, ranging from "turn the Middle East into a parking lot" to "lets peacefully and democratically solve these problems. I cannot think of one person that I know who "hates blindly", much less hates at all. Again, do not stereotype and generalize the U.S., especially today's youth. We have plenty of bad apples, but I have seen, and am surrounded by many of the brightest minds, and best people I have ever met

If canvassing opinion from the US members of A-net is not indicative of US Youth Opinion, then I am sorry - my mistake.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3736 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 5):
If canvassing opinion from the US members of A-net is not indicative of US Youth Opinion, then I am sorry - my mistake.

Are you serious??


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 7, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3735 times:

Quoting FutureUALpilot (Reply 3):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
Launch nuclear weapons against North Korea, and millions will die. It is possible that not all 23m North Koreans will die

So, let me say then, hypothetically, if N. Korea nukes one of our major metropolitan areas, kills potentially millions of Americans, are we to do? Sit with our thumbs up our asses and say golly gee, that was rude! F*ck no! I do not judge the North Korean people by there leadership, and I would hate to see them erased from the planet, but if push comes to shove, you are damn right I wouldnt have a problem with the United States firing back, and then some.

No, you miss my point completely. If one has a nuclear attack on your homeland, you respond in kind.

Its a PRE EMPTIVE strike i'm complaining about.

Big difference.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3728 times:

Quoting Donder10 (Reply 6):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 5):
If canvassing opinion from the US members of A-net is not indicative of US Youth Opinion, then I am sorry - my mistake.

Are you serious??

I didnt say it was all of them, and lets be clear on this - 75% of the members are young Americans under the age of 30. Read through the multitude of Iraq/Afghanistan/9/11/Korea/Axis of Evil/Terror Threats posts and you'll see what I mean.

A vociferous segment i'm sure you'll agree.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3724 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 1):
Translation: make a lot of noise, but don't dare do anything! But if HE fires a missle, it's your fault anyway.

 thumbsup  Good job, Falcon. Captures the post perfectly.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 5):
If canvassing opinion from the US members of A-net is not indicative of US Youth Opinion, then I am sorry - my mistake.

You really think you are going to get a true representative sample of youth opinion in the US from reading Anet posts???? You've got to be kidding!!!!


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3705 times:

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 4):
Threre are militaristic hotheads everywhere, including in the UK, who will always call for the most aggresive military response possible to anything. Yes, they are louder over here lately, but your over generalization not withstanding, they don't control the government.

A quote from anoother thread - "In January 2004, I met face-to-face with Rep. Shelley Berkley (D-NV) who sits on the Committee on International Relations. The subject of North Korea came up. Her response "If North Korea even gets a nuclear missle ten feet off the ground, they will cease to exist."

Big words.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3706 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 9):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 5):
If canvassing opinion from the US members of A-net is not indicative of US Youth Opinion, then I am sorry - my mistake.

You really think you are going to get a true representative sample of youth opinion in the US from reading Anet posts???? You've got to be kidding!!!!

Why not? The posts and from US citizens, who happen to be youths. Wheres the problem?



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineWrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3704 times:

I doubt North Korean would be dumb enough to launch a atom bomb at the US (though never say never), and even if they did, I bet it'd land in the Pacific ocean.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 7):
Its a PRE EMPTIVE strike i'm complaining about.

A pre emptive attack ?, the USA would be hunted down and hung if they launched a attack of any form on North Korea, you must remember, that the U.S most likely NOT use a nuclear weapon, you seem to be assuming they will. The cold war ended, if the U.S were to launch a nuke, it'd trigger another one, I doubt America wants that.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
You should all be praying that North Korea doesn’t get the bomb

But they already have it, it's just they haven't tested it yet.

Wrightbrothers



Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3701 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 7):

Its a PRE EMPTIVE strike i'm complaining about.

I have never heard or seen any evidence of a pre-emptive strike against North Korea. The only ones who keep saying this are the NKs themselves. Perhaps to justify their nuclear ambitions. And now you are using their line.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
They hate blindly because they are compelled to

That is a perfect qoute that you, my friend, are the one who has fallen for the propaganda. Such generalizations are not worthy of any serious conversations.

Plus, if you read it more, there are many other countries that are more concerned about North Korea than we should be. That is South Korea, Japan, and China. China does not want either of the two other countries to get Nuclear Bombs as a deterrent against North Korea. That is the arms race you should be worried about, not trying to sound it like the only one who has a problem with NK is the US.


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3703 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 10):
Quoting Searpqx (Reply 4):
Threre are militaristic hotheads everywhere, including in the UK, who will always call for the most aggresive military response possible to anything. Yes, they are louder over here lately, but your over generalization not withstanding, they don't control the government.

A quote from anoother thread - "In January 2004, I met face-to-face with Rep. Shelley Berkley (D-NV) who sits on the Committee on International Relations. The subject of North Korea came up. Her response "If North Korea even gets a nuclear missle ten feet off the ground, they will cease to exist."

Big words.

Stupid words, to be exact.

However, if we were capable of destroying the same nuclear missle - using conventional weapons - would you object? Or do we have to take the first shot before we react?


User currently offlineJalto27R From United States of America, joined May 2004, 857 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3703 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
The problem is compounded by a new generation of Americans, raised on a diet of MTV and Fox News propaganda, who have a lethal combination of hate and ignorance. They hate blindly because they are compelled to, at the faceless terrorist menace that stalks them from the shadows, and because that�s what your media says being Patriotic is. The ignorance comes from the time that has passed since the horrors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and the memory of such events fades over time.

What in God's name are you talking about? If you knew anything about the current state of youths like myself, you would know that the much larger portion of it has a very liberal, peaceful view of things. At best, they hate government in general, and at worst, they just don't care. To say that today's youth are a bunch of gung-hoe MTV watching idiots is INSANE! I mean..who even watches MTV anymore? And Fox News? You must be kidding me. No kid my age watches Fox News. Their main source of news is the Daily Show, a far far cry from Fox News. Get your facts straight.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3690 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
I’ve ruminated enough.

Well, at least you got this part right. . . .  sarcastic 


User currently offlineLHMARK From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 46
Reply 17, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3673 times:

You know, I think it's been about a year and a half since we've seen the expression of condescencion toward the people of the US from a native of another country at this high a level. Thank you, dad, for patting us on the head and setting your ignorant kids straight. Pompous.


"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3662 times:

Perhaps take a look at the various stands of the UN, the British Government, the Japanese Governement, the Chinese Government, the Russian Government on this very same issue before making a specifically pointed generalization about the United States. The Bush administration is far from being alone in it's concerns of Pyongyang's stance on nuclear arms activity.

User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3506 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3624 times:

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 18):
Perhaps take a look at the various stands of the UN, the British Government, the Japanese Governement, the Chinese Government, the Russian Government on this very same issue before making a specifically pointed generalization about the United States. The Bush administration is far from being alone in it's concerns of Pyongyang's stance on nuclear arms activity.

Exactly. Japan is (rightly) actually THE most concerned country about North Korea's nuclear threat. I'd have no problem if Japan took out North Korea's nuclear weapon launch capability if North Korea decides to "test" a few more missiles over Japan's airspace.

Your "open letter" is both patronizing and wrong in so many areas. Nobody would advocate preemptively "nuking" North Korea. That's completely ridiculous. But it's good to see that you've bought into the "Dear Leader's" propoganda.

Preemptively blowing up North Korea's launch capability? Maybe. But trust me, it wouldn't be the US going it alone.

Hee. Fox News and MTV. Wow, you've got us pegged. I felt like you KNEW me, even though we've never met.


User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3623 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
because there will be people in the US Government advising a pre-emptive strike at that point

Ummm. It wouldn't just be people in the current government. The former Sec. Def under Pres. Clinton and his deputy wrote an op-ed piece to the Washington Times and Time magazine advocating exactly that.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2006/06/21/AR2006062101518.html

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1211527,00.html


User currently offlineNWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3577 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
The problem is compounded by a new generation of Americans, raised on a diet of MTV and Fox News propaganda, who have a lethal combination of hate and ignorance. They hate blindly because they are compelled to, at the faceless terrorist menace that stalks them from the shadows, and because that’s what your media says being Patriotic is.



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 11):
Why not? The posts and from US citizens, who happen to be youths. Wheres the problem?

Wow. Grow a brain and get back to us, please.




-NWA742


User currently offlineDrDeke From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 830 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3557 times:

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 21):
Wow. Grow a brain and get back to us, please.

What, is there a problem with the Americans on a.net? Do their opinions and views count less than those of non-a.net reading Americans?

-DrDeke



If you don't want it known, don't say it on a phone.
User currently offlineNeilYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3538 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
Nuking North Korea will put the USA up there with Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia

There is no chance that the US will nuke North Korea, don't worry about that.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
the thing that profoundly terrifies me, is the prominence of the people who would advise a pre-emptive strike

A pre-emptive strike on their bomb making facilites would be great. Hell, give me a plane, I'll run over there and do it for everyone. As long as none of the possible bombs that would be thrown at North Korea don't trigger a nuclear explosion causing the anhillation of the North Koreans, then I'm all for it. I don't see a problem with some bombs that will set their nuclear capabilities back 20 years. Kim Jong Il is one scary man as it, to both North Koreans and the rest of the world as it is, I don't want to see North Korea with a nuke, ever.


User currently offlineNWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3539 times:

Quoting DrDeke (Reply 22):
Do their opinions and views count less than those of non-a.net reading Americans?

Wow, talk about missing the point. CHRISBA777ER is labeling and generalizing the entire youth population of the US, and that's beside the fact that he's only using A.net members in an attempt to represent millions upon millions of young Americans, and to top it off, not providing any kind of logical backing of his claims whatsoever.

Did you actually need that spelled out for you?





-NWA742


25 FutureUALpilot : No, I understood your point, but I did not address it, for which I do apologize. I wonder why you are so worried a pre-emptive nuclear strike on N. K
26 Cairo : CHRISBA777ER, America isn't going to use nuclear weapons on North Korea, unless, possibly, North Korea uses them first. It just won't happen and besid
27 BHMBAGLOCK : If you think there's a measurable overlap of viewers of these two networks then you're obviously starting the whole thing with a gross misunderstandi
28 Aerobalance : Jong Dong VLXXXVII can rattle his sabres all he wants, God help him if he pushes a certain button...
29 TedTAce : Like Me? That would be nice. A good excue for dodging work.. Ok, If NK tests a nuke we should test a nuke on their soil, but that's it. I'm not into
30 Diamond : It is perfectly understandable to have great fear of a nuclear attack of any kind, let alone a pre-emptive one. But as LHMark and others have said, it
31 Dougloid : With all due respect, Chris, you should be talking to the North Koreans. If they get the bomb it's because they want it-bad. Sympathy for the devil, C
32 Falcon84 : They made a CHOICE to be isolated. It wasn't by happenstance. They chose to be loners, and a loner with a weapon like that scares me. And who do you
33 MDorBust : Seems awfully unpre-emptive there. Seeing as how the statement is conditional on a North Korean launch.
34 KingAir200 : Thinking that young Americans are generally hateful is completely false. I don't know that many kids that watch MTV and I sure as hell don't watch Fox
35 Mdsh00 : Who cares what she says? In the end, it is the president who makes the very final call for a nuclear strike. I can guarantee you the chance would be
36 Halls120 : Well. How about the fact that the small slice of American youth that post on Anet can hardly be regarded as a representative statistically accurate s
37 AGM100 : Most of the world underestimates the conventional striking power of the US. Their would be no reason to use Nukes against NK or Iran. But we CRAZY Am
38 Sprout5199 : Am I missing something? If the missile is TEN feet off the ground then it has been LAUNCHED!!! So why is everyone thinking about first strikes in thi
39 CHRISBA777ER : Ladies and Gentlemen - i give you - The vociferous advocator. Is TedTace alone? Is he one in a million in his opinions? You can all give me your self
40 CHRISBA777ER : At last - a sensible response. I agree with what you say Doug.
41 CHRISBA777ER : No i didnt say that - stop misquoting me. I said you hate what you are told to hate. You hate Islamic terrorists for example. You dont see their view
42 CHRISBA777ER : Or a TEST launch.
43 CHRISBA777ER : Like i said before - it how we see it. If there really is a big peace/appeasement/anti nuclear lobby amongst the non-apathetic youth of America, it n
44 Banco : And who appointed you as spokesman for everyone else? If people do indeed see things as you say, then the greatest irony of the post is the comment a
45 CHRISBA777ER : Halls, apologies if i have not made myself totally clear - lets go through it again. A pre-emptive strike is what it is. You use conventional weapons
46 CHRISBA777ER : If you read the post, and my notes to it in subsequent replies, you would understand that I have a great deal of affection for the US and that you ar
47 CHRISBA777ER : Of course - and ive stated before I have no objection to that. I was merely passing comment on the fact that there are some who feel that NK should b
48 CHRISBA777ER : Ok then Banco - off you go Son - how do you see it?
49 Banco : I agree with much of what the American members posted here. Your whole premise is flawed. What I find puzzling is your apparent insistence on knowing
50 CHRISBA777ER : I thought the idea of this was to have a debate? You say my premise is flawed, but dont explain your views in relation to it. Leaving the patronising
51 CHRISBA777ER : Arrogance? Surely that is taking the intellectual high road, stating someone else is wrong, not giving reasons why, and then calling them arrogant wh
52 Banco : Debates don't usually begin with telling another country how they think, and then refusing to accept the possibility you might be wrong when member a
53 MDorBust : You don't "test launch" a nuke. You test launch missiles with simulated payloads, or you test a nuke without the delivery system(which general happen
54 CHRISBA777ER : North Korea have not just taken the Spratlys though have they? So i'm just wrong and thats an end to it - no discussion needed. I want to discuss it
55 Banco : So what? You've gone in search of "some people". You always find "some people". I started off by asking who appointed you spokesman for everyone. You
56 Halls120 : I see that I've asked you to explain why you consider the very small slice of American youth that post on Anet are representative of American youth a
57 Travelin man : I just have a couple of questions for Chris: 1) Should North Korea have nuclear weapons? 2) If so, do you propose Japan, South Korea, and other neighb
58 CHRISBA777ER : I never stated that I was - a daft assumption to make. If i mistakenly used the word "we" rather than "me/I" then I apologise. These are my incorrect
59 ThePRGuy : *Applause* That is what he said
60 CHRISBA777ER : Where have I refused to admit i'm wrong? You'll find - Surely a tacit acceptance that things are *not* as I say they are. But we are still avoiding t
61 Mandala499 : Chris, You are scared by all this 'pre-emptive nuke strike' Well, so are most of us! But the rest of the post kinds baffles me in what you are trying
62 Post contains images TedTAce : Of course, namely because I refuse to speak for anyone else, or be a puppet for any particular party. I have watched the mistakes of the last 20+ yea
63 CHRISBA777ER : 1 - Its their right to attempt to acquire nukes. Whether they can be trusted with them is another matter. Many other countries have them. 2 - Again,
64 Travelin man : I think you misunderstood my question. I am not talking about North Korea launching nukes, just "testing" their missiles (as they did on July 4th). W
65 CHRISBA777ER : There are people who advocate a military response to NK nuclear testing. I (personally) think thats a scary prospect - military action against a nucl
66 CHRISBA777ER : No, as stated before - testing missiles and testing warheads are two totally different things - thankfully. NK are many years away from having a true
67 Mandala499 : Cricket? LOL Perhaps the issue should be solved over a test cricket match between NK and USA in say, an Indian cricket grounds with West Indies umpire
68 Post contains images Gilligan : How? How? To date the best diplomats in 6 countries have been unable to slow him down so why don't you show them up and tell them HOW? At what cost t
69 CHRISBA777ER : Dude - read the post.
70 Gilligan : Yeah, and? But of course you have to toss a few "we're superior references in there.... And then try a few carrots..... But this I love.... It's call
71 JGPH1A : Ah, but God told him to do it. Does that sound in any way familiar ?
72 Halls120 : Yes, you are. Still no response to the questions posted below.
73 Texdravid : Your drivel is just Exhibit ZZZZ on America bashing, and it is so boring and just a partisan hack job. You talk about a tired canard full of half-trut
74 JGPH1A : Oh you HAVE to be kidding me ! Have you ever watched the BBC ? Some perspective, please...
75 Texdravid : Yes, I watch that putrid propaganda nightly, just I watch Odorman on MSNBC. The pure bile makes Fox look like Sesame street. You're simply so left th
76 JGPH1A : Grow up, doctor.
77 Checkraiser : Stop the bickering. Certainly the OP must recoginze by now that Fox News is not to blame. If people out there actually believe that a cable channel is
78 Baroque : Not sure who would be there too - oh yes, Aus, we have never missed a war -YET! Not Japan, not for a pre-emptive strike, the US wrote that out in its
79 IFEMaster : Well, I don't know that Fox news is more palatable than the BBC, but I must admit that I am appaled at the way the BBC has developed an anti-right ag
80 Wrighbrothers : No, they have it because they want to look big, and trying to scare the rest of the world. It's their right ?, Jesus, this is nuclear weapons we're t
81 Gilligan : If I were a radical islamist or a born again idiot, yes it would. To me though it says if it makes sense, you should prepare for it.
82 JGPH1A : And you can think of no other possible reason for generating this kind of fear in the general population ? Not one ? Nobody's denying that NK having
83 CHRISBA777ER : LOL are you serious?
84 CHRISBA777ER : How many times do i need to repeat myself? Refer to Travelin' Man's posts - you may find answers there. "capable of destroying a nuclear missile shor
85 IFEMaster : In fairness to Tex, your "open letter" does come across as anti-American. Tex draws a reasonable conclusion.
86 Post contains images CHRISBA777ER : Right! Finally we are getting somewhere!! I agree completely with what you say. This is part of my point. I merely highlight the fact that: a) Conven
87 CHRISBA777ER : My sentiments precisely.
88 AGM100 : Are you kidding me !?? Have you seen the ammount of debate over the war and the use of the military ?? It has divided our country in half basically ,
89 Post contains images CHRISBA777ER : Spot on. And again. LOL!!! Despite the disclaimer, the great passages where I state that they are good people etc, and where i open state I am an Ame
90 CHRISBA777ER : So how come Bush is still in power? For what its worth, I am actually in favour of the Iraq thing, and Afghanistan as well - and support OUR efforts
91 Travelin man : Too bad you didn't say it like that, and had to bring in Fox News, MTV, war-loving Americans, Britain the lap dog, and all the other crap. I think it
92 Mdsh00 : Even if there were a movement to try and get Bush out, he would finish his term by then. When Congress is dominated by his party, it isn't easily. Un
93 AndesSMF : Because of re-election in 2004? You have to understand two things shown as example. Here in the US, Fox News beats CNN, MSNBC, et al in the ratings b
94 AGM100 : Tenuously to say the least, and POWER is not the right word. To to under simplify it... because he still has the slim margin politically. The fact th
95 FlyOverStater : But they have....The problem is the republicans (the administration) have shifted further to the right for even traditional republicans. Politically
96 Travelin man : FYI, we have something called a Constitution. We cannot "remove" a president from office "any time". Every four years we get the opportunity to do so
97 Halls120 : Thanks for answering one of my questions. Still no response to other one, of course. I didn't specify which weapon would be used, only if you would h
98 Post contains images CHRISBA777ER : Halls - dude. A launch is a launch is a launch - they launched first, thats that. What happens afterwards is purely academic as far as I'm concerned.
99 Baroque : Ouch, there is a view that rather thinks it shows Al G is just too nice a guy.[Edited 2006-10-06 10:40:52]
100 Post contains images Halls120 : Cop out. And you say you want to debate? you're just interested in making statements and running away from the discussion.
101 Baroque : Now that the initial fuss has died down, a little story about Americans in Aus and Australians in the US. In the 60s and 70s ESSO having been invited
102 Post contains images CHRISBA777ER : Gotcha - thanks for clearing that up. Right - why is A-net American youth different to American youth? I dont think it is. It is probably more opinio
103 AGM100 : YA OK.... My point was not about who won or lost , only that the country is pretty evenly divided.
104 AndesSMF : I have not heard that suggestion, but whoever proposes a nuclear response to a nuclear test is an idiot. But if NK launches a missile, then a respons
105 Post contains images Halls120 : Thanks for answering my "other" question. While I am sometime end up being obtuse, I don't generally try to adopt that pose intentionally. Understand
106 NorthstarBoy : Events in the last couple of days have proven that North Korea may infact have a nuclear bomb, they claim they've detonated one, the question would be
107 Baroque : Not sure about the earlier part of the analysis, but the later parts seem OK to me, unlike the pickle we are all in! I don't think that N Kor has to
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