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Pittsburg Penguins May Move To Hamilton, Ontario?  
User currently offlineWhyWhyZed From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 914 posts, RR: 16
Posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2935 times:

For years there has been talk about Hamilton getting their own NHL team. We have the Hamilton Bulldogs, an AHL team, but it was never enough.

Quoting thespec.ca:

The man believed to be behind a group with exclusive rights to bring an NHL team to Copps Coliseum appears to have a team.

Jim Balsillie, co-chief executive officer of BlackBerry manufacturer Research in Motion in Waterloo, is reported by several media outlets to have bought the Pittsburgh Penguins. Balsillie is expected to announce his purchase of the team today.

http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/bre...kingnews/breakingnews_1489694.html

Only time will tell. It'd definitely be something new and exciting for Hamilton. What would they do with the Bulldogs, however?

- Jason DePodesta

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineC-GRYK From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 751 posts, RR: 36
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2927 times:

I wouldn't hold your breath Jay...

I believe that for the NHL to put a team in Hamilton, it must be OKed by BOTH the Leafs and the Sabres, something to due with a 50-100 mile radius... I've heard neither teams are too hot on the idea of another team in this region but hey, I'm all for it... This is the hockey capital of the world, it boggles my mind to think that the LA metro area can support 2 NHL teams (Kings/Ducks) yet the Golden Horseshoe/Southern Ontario can't... Though I'm sure it's not a question of if the team will recieve fan support, but whether a team in the Hammer would recieve the all important CORPORATE support and again the Leafs and Sabres must give their blessing as well...

Will be interesting to follow...

Jeremy



Think before you type!
User currently offlineWhyWhyZed From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 914 posts, RR: 16
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2922 times:

Quoting C-GRYK (Reply 1):
I believe that for the NHL to put a team in Hamilton, it must be OKed by BOTH the Leafs and the Sabres, something to due with a 50-100 mile radius... I've heard neither teams are too hot on the idea of another team in this region but hey, I'm all for it... This is the hockey capital of the world, it boggles my mind to think that the LA metro area can support 2 NHL teams (Kings/Ducks) yet the Golden Horseshoe/Southern Ontario can't... Though I'm sure it's not a question of if the team will recieve fan support, but whether a team in the Hammer would recieve the all important CORPORATE support and again the Leafs and Sabres must give their blessing as well...

CH news at noon, from Hamilton was discussing the story with an "expert", and it was discussed that it'd cost roughly half a billion dollars to get it all up and running up here. This was the break down...
175 million = Purchase cost of the penguins
100 million = to "update" copps colliseum
100 million = to [b]compensate[b] the leafs, and sabres for entering "their" turf
100 million = misc finances (advertising, rebranding, etc)


User currently offlineYHMYYZspotter From Canada, joined Sep 2006, 197 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2919 times:

Dont hold your breath. I am from Hamilton and there's been talk about Hamilton getting a team ever since I was able to walk!

It would be nice though to see an NHL game without crossing the border or paying hundred's of dollars (If you are lucky) at the ACC to watch those leafs.

GO DUCKS!


User currently offlineWhyWhyZed From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 914 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2909 times:

Quoting YHMYYZspotter (Reply 3):
Dont hold your breath. I am from Hamilton and there's been talk about Hamilton getting a team ever since I was able to walk!



Quoting WhyWhyZed (Thread starter):
For years there has been talk about Hamilton getting their own NHL team. We have the Hamilton Bulldogs, an AHL team, but it was never enough.

I know it's been in talks for a long time. The copps colliseum was originally built with the intention of an NHL team. Copps OPENED up in 1985, so talks for an NHL team have more than likely been around for 25+ years.


User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5423 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2896 times:

Psst. It's Pittsburgh, not Pittsburg. As for moving my beloved Pens, get your grubby paws off. Part of the terms of sale is that Balsillie can't move the team unless an arena deal absolutely falls through. Beyond that, Bettman has stated that the NHL Owners would not OK a move as long as a viable arena deal was out there. To drive the final nail in the coffin:


"Jim is a tremendous businessman and a passionate hockey fan, and I think he is going to be a great owner for the Pittsburgh Penguins," owner and Hall of Fame player Mario Lemieux said in a statement. "I know his hope is to get a new arena deal and keep the team here in Pittsburgh for the long-term."

"I love the game of hockey and I am very excited to sign this agreement to purchase the Pittsburgh Penguins and become a part of the National Hockey League," Balsillie said in the statement.

"Pittsburgh has shown itself to be an outstanding hockey market, and the team has an incredible tradition of success and fan support. With young stars such as Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin, we all know the Penguins have a very bright future on the ice. I look forward to owning this team for a long time in Pittsburgh."


http://postgazette.com/pg/06278/727670-61.stm



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlinePhotopilot From Canada, joined Jul 2002, 2809 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2866 times:

Hamilton can't get an NHL team.....

Because then Toronto would want one! Big grin


User currently offlineC-GRYK From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 751 posts, RR: 36
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2858 times:

Quoting YHMYYZspotter (Reply 3):
It would be nice though to see an NHL game without crossing the border or paying hundred's of dollars (If you are lucky) at the ACC to watch those leafs.

Funny, I paid only $50 to watch them at the home opener last night.... (Paying over face value for Leaf tickets (going to scalpers...) is for chumps!  

Jeremy

[Edited 2006-10-05 21:51:19]


Think before you type!
User currently offlineNeilYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2835 times:

They won't move in the near future. However, is he is really intent on moving them soon, it shouldn't be too hard for him to drive the team into the ground in Pittsburgh until they lose all interest. After all, he's the owner, and he can afford some losing year's if the goal is to get them to Hamilton. And I also don't think that Bettman will put up much of a fight, most owners wouldn't even give a $hit, only Buffalo. Toronto sells out every game, and that wouldn't change with a team from Hamilton, there's a bloody waiting list to get season's tickets, so I doubt Toronto would put up much more than a "no don't do it, but if you have to, okay."

User currently offlineYHMYYZspotter From Canada, joined Sep 2006, 197 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2830 times:

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 6):
Hamilton can't get an NHL team.....

Because then Toronto would want one! Big grin

HAHAHA best thing I've read all day!

Quoting C-GRYK (Reply 7):
Funny, I paid only $50 to watch them at the home opener last night.... (Paying over face value for Leaf tickets (going to scalpers...) is for chumps!

Thats the best way to do it eh! Head to the ACC at puck drop and see what you can haggle with the scalpers. I do it all the time.


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2828 times:

While the Pens are free to walk away when their lease expires on June 30, 2007, I think that unless there isn't a plan in place for a new arena by then, they'll stay in Pittsburgh until 2008. If they move, they will move to that new city after the 2007-08 season. If they do move, it will not be to Hamilton or Hartford due to having to pay off other NHL clubs in the area. It will be one of the following cities:

Kansas City. With the Sprint Center opening next October, they have a brand new arena sitting there practically unused. The big question is whether hockey can be successful there the second time around.

Oklahoma City. They have a fairly new arena in place, and with rumors of the Seattle Supersonics moving to OKC, it may be a good place to put a team at. The city was among the ones that tried to get an NHL team during the last expansion period.

Houston. Largest TV market without an NHL team. Has a suitable arena in place as well (Toyota Center). The only potential problem involves the Houston Aeros of the AHL. The Aeros are owned by the Minnesota Wild and something would have to be worked out there.

Portland. With no NHL team between San Jose and Vancouver (B.C.), Portland may be a good place to put a team. During the Pens bankruptcy that led to Mario buying the team, it was rumored Paul Allen would buy the team and move them to Portland. While Seattle may be the bigger market, they lack an NHL quality arena.

Winnipeg. If the Pens were to move to Canada, this is where they'd move to. While the MTS Centre only seats 15,000 for hockey, one could bet that unlike at many NHL arenas, it would be sold out every night.

Las Vegas. The dark horse pick. The only suitable venue in town is the Thomas and Mack Center, and it isn't ideally set up for hockey. While the Kings have played preseason games at the MGM Grand Arena, is it really a suitable arena for regular season hockey? So unless one of the casino companies decides to build an arena or the City builds one downtown, there isn't a chance of them luring an NHL team.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13170 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2823 times:

Would it be a good idea for another NHL team in Canada? For the last number of years, as players are paid in US $'s, it had put teams in Canada at a financial disadvantage and less able to compete for top players. I'm not too sure they can really survive in the Pittsburgh area, but here in the NY City market area we have 3 NHL teams - NJ Devils, NY Rangers and then NY Islanders and Phildelphia is not far away.

User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5423 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2823 times:

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 10):
Oklahoma City. They have a fairly new arena in place, and with rumors of the Seattle Supersonics moving to OKC, it may be a good place to put a team at. The city was among the ones that tried to get an NHL team during the last expansion period.

Let's also not forget that the Oklahoma City Blazers of the CHL have better average attendance than some AHL teams in "traditional hockey markets."

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 10):
Las Vegas. The dark horse pick. The only suitable venue in town is the Thomas and Mack Center, and it isn't ideally set up for hockey. While the Kings have played preseason games at the MGM Grand Arena, is it really a suitable arena for regular season hockey? So unless one of the casino companies decides to build an arena or the City builds one downtown, there isn't a chance of them luring an NHL team.

What about the Orleans Arena? The ECHL Las Vegas Wranglers play there. Alas, I don't pay much attention to the National Conference which the Wranglers are in, so don't know anything about the set-up there.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2813 times:

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 12):
What about the Orleans Arena? The ECHL Las Vegas Wranglers play there. Alas, I don't pay much attention to the National Conference which the Wranglers are in, so don't know anything about the set-up there.

It's way too small of a building to host an NHL team. For hockey (IIRC), it seats somewhere around 8,500 (The max seating for the arena is 9,500).



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 11):
I'm not too sure they can really survive in the Pittsburgh area, but here in the NY City market area we have 3 NHL teams - NJ Devils, NY Rangers and then NY Islanders and Phildelphia is not far away.

It's surprising that three teams have been able to survive in the area. There are nights when MSG is sold out and there are games at Continental Airlines Arena or at the Nassau County Mausoleum (and on rare occassions, all three) and the attendence at those arenas is half of their capacity. Attendance at Devils games will pick up with the new arena in Newark since it will be easier to get to the arena than the current arena. In all honesty, the Isles need to move. The only reason they were put there to start with is to prevent the WHA's New York Raiders (Later renamed the Golden Blades) from playing in the Nassau Coliseum (Their 1972 expansion sibling the Atlanta Flames was addedto balance the schedule and to twart the WHA from putting a team in Atlanta down the road.). If it wasn't for the four Stanley Cups they've won right after the WHA merger, they probably would have moved during the 80s.


User currently offlineBHMNONREV From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1383 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2767 times:

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 10):
Kansas City. With the Sprint Center opening next October, they have a brand new arena sitting there practically unused. The big question is whether hockey can be successful there the second time around.

Until the Blues were purchased by Checketts and his group, there was some heavy speculation that the Blues would move to KC and occupy the new building there. Fortunately, sanity prevailed and my beloved Blues were kept in the 'Loo, where they belong. Too strong of a fan base for them to leave..

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 10):
Houston. Largest TV market without an NHL team. Has a suitable arena in place as well (Toyota Center). The only potential problem involves the Houston Aeros of the AHL. The Aeros are owned by the Minnesota Wild and something would have to be worked out there.

You can bet that Bettman is working an angle to get a team in the Toyota Center, as you stated Houston is the largest market without a team right now (metro 5+ mil). Not sure of the lease situation in Nashville, but the Preds would be a good fit, they only drew in the neighborhood of 12-13,000 per game last year, suspect numbers for a franchise on the rise. I'm not sure the Nashville area is large enough to support the NHL over the long term.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 10):
Las Vegas. The dark horse pick. The only suitable venue in town is the Thomas and Mack Center, and it isn't ideally set up for hockey. While the Kings have played preseason games at the MGM Grand Arena, is it really a suitable arena for regular season hockey? So unless one of the casino companies decides to build an arena or the City builds one downtown, there isn't a chance of them luring an NHL team.

I think right now the MLB, NBA and the NHL all have their eyes on Vegas but are waiting to see which of the other makes the first move. I don't think there is any question that Pro Sports will thrive in Las Vegas but the gambling issue is huge, and I'm not sure that it can be worked around. Time will tell though..

In regards to the OP, I hope the Pens can get a deal worked out and stay in Pittsburgh. It would be a shame to see another original expansion team from '67 go elsewhere, leaving only LA, PHL, and STL..


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2734 times:

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 14):
I think right now the MLB, NBA and the NHL all have their eyes on Vegas but are waiting to see which of the other makes the first move. I don't think there is any question that Pro Sports will thrive in Las Vegas but the gambling issue is huge, and I'm not sure that it can be worked around. Time will tell though..

Major League Baseball will probably never put a team in Las Vegas. Much like the NFL, anything remotely related to gambling and their sport they want nothing to do with. The NBA will probably be the first league to test the waters, I think the league holding the All-Star Game there is the prelude to either putting an expansion team or an existing team moving (I'd guess Seattle or N.O.) there. I think that if an NBA team ends up in Vegas and a new arena is built, then the NHL will follow. As for gambling, that's easy to deal with. Every sportsbook in Nevada already doesn't take bets on games involving college teams from Nevada, and the Palms sportsbook doesn't take any NBA bets at all. Easy solution would be not to take any bets involving the Las Vegas team.


User currently offlineHPLASOps From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2701 times:

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 15):
The NBA will probably be the first league to test the waters, I think the league holding the All-Star Game there is the prelude to either putting an expansion team or an existing team moving

I agree with this sentiment. For starters, the Thomas & Mack is NBA sufficient for the short term until a new facility can be built. The NFL, MLB, and NHL would have to wait for a facility to be built before they could move (Cashman field and Sam Boyd Stadium are way too small for short term use). Second, the team would have plenty of opportunity to be talented (think about it, how many top NBA guys would be begging for a trade to Vegas?). However.....

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 15):
(I'd guess Seattle or N.O.)

I don't think it will be either of these teams. IF (and that's a huge word right now) the Hornets move, it will be OKC. OKC has a modern NBA quality facility already in place, a mega hungry fan base (as already proven), and geographically speaking, would make the most sense since there's a huge hole in the midwest that OKC could fill. Seattle I don't see moving. The owner is just trying to bluff to get a new stadium.

My pic for a team that would relocate (I don't see expansion happening) is the LA Clippers. Trust me, Los Angeles won't miss them. LA is the most overrated sports market. Population base doesn't always equate to fan support. That's part of the reason why I'm a little skeptical Vegas is ready for a major league sports team.

As for the OP, I believe the Pens will stay in Pittsburgh, despite no logical reason why they should. The fan base has weakened recently, the city won't budge on assisting with funding for a new stadium, and the overall weakness of the league only serves to make the bad teams worse financially. But there's an overwhelming sentiment that the Penguins just have to stay there no matter what it takes. I can't explain that and never will be able to.


User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2696 times:

If the Pens fall into bankrupty then I suppose anything can happen. The real question is Pittsburgh a sports town, or is it a city like so many that will not support a team unless its a winner. The Pirates did draw 1.8 million the 5th highest ever for them, but still near the bottom of major league baseball (thank goodness for Tampa and Miami), pro basketball never worked, and poor teams recently has hurt the Pens. If the Pens do move, I doubt it would be to Hamilton, but then again is there really another metro area besides Houston that could support a team?

User currently offlinePiercey From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 2233 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2683 times:

Quoting WhyWhyZed (Thread starter):

Hamilton??? No way. They are like SAT and baseball (may get a team, but not on the short list)

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 6):
Hamilton can't get an NHL team.....

Because then Toronto would want one!

 rotfl 

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 10):
Kansas City. With the Sprint Center opening next October, they have a brand new arena sitting there practically unused. The big question is whether hockey can be successful there the second time around.

If anything, this will be the city, courtesy of the Sprint Center

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 10):
Oklahoma City. They have a fairly new arena in place, and with rumors of the Seattle Supersonics moving to OKC, it may be a good place to put a team at. The city was among the ones that tried to get an NHL team during the last expansion period.

I don't get why everyone thinks OKC is the next big city to get a team. It is unproven, and yes I know NO was there last year and did well, but it was a freak, somewhat like the World Cup and the US in 1998.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 10):
Houston. Largest TV market without an NHL team. Has a suitable arena in place as well (Toyota Center). The only potential problem involves the Houston Aeros of the AHL. The Aeros are owned by the Minnesota Wild and something would have to be worked out there.

How would Dallas react?

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 10):

Portland. With no NHL team between San Jose and Vancouver (B.C.), Portland may be a good place to put a team. During the Pens bankruptcy that led to Mario buying the team, it was rumored Paul Allen would buy the team and move them to Portland. While Seattle may be the bigger market, they lack an NHL quality arena.

If it wasn't for that last sentence, we would be saying Seattle atm. How well has the Trailblazers doing attendence wise?

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 10):

Winnipeg. If the Pens were to move to Canada, this is where they'd move to. While the MTS Centre only seats 15,000 for hockey, one could bet that unlike at many NHL arenas, it would be sold out every night.

 checkmark  and to all of those saying they wouldn't be competitive do to the Can$, may I refer you to the recent success of Vancouver, Calgary, and Edmonton  Wink

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 10):

Las Vegas. The dark horse pick. The only suitable venue in town is the Thomas and Mack Center, and it isn't ideally set up for hockey. While the Kings have played preseason games at the MGM Grand Arena, is it really a suitable arena for regular season hockey? So unless one of the casino companies decides to build an arena or the City builds one downtown, there isn't a chance of them luring an NHL team.

Another unproven. How would PHX react? Also, why not throw in Salt Lake City?

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 13):
In all honesty, the Isles need to move.

 cry  If they do, I demand them to keep their name, as the Honolulu Islanders  duck 

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 14):
Not sure of the lease situation in Nashville, but the Preds would be a good fit,

Preds ain't moving. There are more desperate teams  duck 

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 16):
IF (and that's a huge word right now) the Hornets move, it will be OKC.

 checkmark 

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 16):
Seattle I don't see moving. The owner is just trying to bluff to get a new stadium.

The Key Center is a dump and they need a new or renevated stadium. Wouldn't be surprised if they left, and then a Charlotte/Cleveland is pulled.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 17):
but then again is there really another metro area besides Houston that could support a team?

CLE  pray 



Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2646 times:

Quoting Piercey (Reply 18):
CLE pray

NHL has already done that...Oakland Seals became the Cleveland Barons in 1976 which then meger with the Minnesota North Stars after the 1978 season which later became the Dallas Stars.


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