I think you'll find the answer is "no" on this one-not because Pelosi and Reid are pure as the driven snow, because we all know they're not, but because every indication is this was brought foward by the pages themselves, not the Dems. And further, the GOP leadership knew about this for ages (not the emails, but Foley's problem), so why didn't they get rid of the problem long before this.
RichPhitzwell From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2019 times:
According to Fox news...Foley is a Dem. Did anybody else catch that when this first blew up?
Anywho, the GOP from hour one was trying to place blame on the D's. First they were asking how long D's knew about this and did not say anything "These are our kids that the D's are not protecting". It seems they have stopped after looking like idiots.
It seems that both parties shoot first then take the blame....but it seems more severe with the R's dragging out the blame the longest. Sigh, different strategy I guess.
Not only are they trying to pull the Dems into this but they are specifically going after Hilary Clinton. They're blaming it on an organization she's affiliated with. I don't think she'd take the risk of creating this scandal. She has too much to lose.
Speaking of blame, one GOP senator and 3 GOP representatives have gone on record saying they told Hastert about Foley's problem 2 to 3 years ago. Yet yesterday he went on the air and said no one knew about this until they saw it on the news this week.
So his own people are blaming him (Hastert) and in response he is calling them all liars?
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39425 posts, RR: 76 Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1954 times:
This doesn't surprise me at all. After all, these are Republicans we are talking about.
These are the same turds that tried to pin the events of 9/11 on the Democrats. Therefore this doesn't surprise me one bit.
I can't wait to hear the spin that Cfalk, Gilligan, AerospaceFan and other like-minds will put on this.
Gilligan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1946 times:
Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter): And further, the GOP leadership knew about this for ages (not the emails, but Foley's problem), so why didn't they get rid of the problem long before this.
OK Foley, you haven't done anything wrong that we know of, but just in case you're fired. Frank, you're next. Any other strange acting people we come across, you're fired. Yep, that would have looked real good. Democrats would have supported that, sure they would.
Falcon, you have yet to provide proof that anyone in the leadership knew before the im's came out a week ago, that Foley was indeed doing anything wrong. Odd behavior is not an excuse to toss someone, if it were then a quarter the house could be impeached. When you have proof positive that Hastert and the leadership knew for a fact that Foley was doing something illegal and did nothing to stop it or just plain cover it up, common back.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 5): I can't wait to hear the spin that Cfalk, Gilligan, AerospaceFan and other like-minds will put on this.
It's easy. Gerry Studds. Democrats cannot and should not say a thing about thing about how Hastert has handled this situation. If they do they prove what hypocrites they really are.
Dude, that's so 80s!
Can you at least find someone current?
I'd be curious as to how many people that covered the Studds story are covering the Foley story. A lot of the folks involved you'd have to dig up from 6ft. under.
You're thinking with a pre-9/11 mentality!
He served, without any attempt by the democrats to remove him or back someone else in his district, until 1996, 13 years after his acknowledged affair with a page that was a minor at the time. Not only was he not ridiculed from office but recieved a standing ovation from his fellow democrats for turning his back on the speakers chair when he was censured. Democrats have absolutley no room to say anything when it comes to sexual abuse of minors.
RichPhitzwell From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1898 times:
Quoting Gilligan (Reply 8): He served, without any attempt by the democrats to remove him or back someone else in his district, until 1996, 13 years after his acknowledged affair with a page that was a minor at the time. Not only was he not ridiculed from office but recieved a standing ovation from his fellow democrats for turning his back on the speakers chair when he was censured. Democrats have absolutley no room to say anything when it comes to sexual abuse of minors.
But the Dems, are really not saying much. Most of the arguing is coming from fellow republicans fingere pointing and from the media blowing things ups.
In some states, 16 is legal....This really should not be a topic to focus attention on, not when we are reinterpreting the Geneva Convention at the same time as this. Sounds like this sex scandal is a plot to direct our attention elsewhere.
Not long before sitting down for a lunchtime interview, she turned down a suggestion from Speaker Dennis Hastert that they jointly appoint former FBI Director Louie Freeh to recommend improvements in the page program.
"That was about protecting their majority" rather than the pages, she said dismissively.
Instead, she wants to put Hastert and other Republicans under oath and make them say what they knew of Foley's actions, when they learned it and what they did to stop him."
Guess that depends on how you look at things. I still think the democrats are going to take back the majority in both houses, which I thought before this scandal broke out. I also still think come January they are just going to go about pissing off a lot of people by wasting time on stuff like the above.
Gilligan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1853 times:
Quoting AirCop (Reply 10): Why is it that you never bring up Rep. Dan Crane, a republican also censured at the same time for having sex with underage pages?
Because as you say Crane was a Republican. In addition despite being tearful and remorse after being censured, the party did not support him in the next election cycle and as a result he lost his seat. Contrast that to Studds who not only rejected his censure, but was celebrated for it by some Democrats. No one, republican or democrat called for Tip Oneill's resignation since most people were smart enough to realize that one bad apple does not the party make. However, the DNC continued to fund his elections up until his defeat in 1996. This goes to show the hypocritical nature of certain democrats.
We're not talking about him. We're talking about Mark Foley.
Quoting Gilligan (Reply 12): Instead, she wants to put Hastert and other Republicans under oath and make them say what they knew of Foley's actions, when they learned it and what they did to stop him."
Sounds reasonable to me. The GOP taught us that is the proper course of action, right?
I guess it depends on what your definition of 'is' is...
Allstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1840 times:
Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter): The biggest indicator yet that the GOP is on the verge of desperation when it comes to their political fortunes in 4 weeks.
Dude, have you thought about going 3rd party in your views?
Quoting Superfly (Reply 5): This doesn't surprise me at all. After all, these are Republicans we are talking about.
These are the same turds that tried to pin the events of 9/11 on the Democrats. Therefore this doesn't surprise me one bit.
Saw it comin' from a mile, I'm sure .
Quoting Gilligan (Reply 6): Falcon, you have yet to provide proof that anyone in the leadership knew before the im's came out a week ago, that Foley was indeed doing anything wrong.
A Hastert aide says that Hastert's cheif of staff had addressed this issue with Foley since 2005. Is there honestly no chance that Hastert's Chief of Staff kept this info from him? It just reeks of BS and I hope most Americans see through the GOP leadership's attempt to smear the Democrats (though they are guilty of *other* offenses too) and take attention off of themselves.
I know Conservatives are huge on personal responsibility and accountability. It's sad that their party isn't.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
Gilligan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1784 times:
Quoting ArtieFufkin (Reply 19): Totally knocked the GOP off their narrative which was to cry "cut and run", "cut and run" , Dems are terrorist appeasers!
That's right, and now for sure we'll get to see it in action come January. Funding for the war will start drying up and any additional requests for funding outside of the orginal budget will be subject to great debate and if granted will have huge strings attached.
Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 15): Gilligan, I'm a conservative, but Hastert and crew dropped the ball BIG time on this.
"Shimkus has said he learned about the e-mail exchange in late 2005 and took immediate action to investigate.
He said Foley told him it was an innocent exchange. Shimkus said he warned Foley not to have any more contact with the teenager and to respect other pages."
"House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) was notified early this year of inappropriate e-mails from former representative Mark Foley (R-Fla.) to a 16-year-old page, a top GOP House member said yesterday -- contradicting the speaker's assertions that he learned of concerns about Foley only last week."
I'm sorry, I just don't see it. The first two stories talk about the emails, which are a separate matter from the IM's. My understanding is that even the FBI said that there was nothing illegal in the emails. Foley was counseled to stop having contact and to respect the pages. What more was there to do? As I said in an earlier post the only way to make sure he complied would have been to wire tap his computer. Once it was found out he was continuing and even worsening his behaviour he had two choices, resign or be forced out, he chose the former. Now everyone wants Hastert and the rest of the leaderships heads. I take that back, most everyone calling for that, with a few exceptions, are Democrats saying they didn't do enough but not saying what they would have done differently. The only thing they would do differently now would be to hold an investigation of the leadership. Something they've wanted to do on multiple items for a long time anyway. The ABC news story just makes a huge leap from 2005 back to 2003 with only one source, who now says he can't remember who he talked to about the matter.
If you think things are bogging down now, wait until January '07. We are in for at least two years of one investigation after another that will do nothing but waste money.
Quoting Gilligan (Reply 20): The first two stories talk about the emails, which are a separate matter from the IM's. My understanding is that even the FBI said that there was nothing illegal in the emails. Foley was counseled to stop having contact and to respect the pages. What more was there to do?
LOL! Oh yeah, I mean, what more could they do? If it was you or I and our bosses found out about doing those things at work, we'd be fired on the spot...but what can the House of Representatives do? They're helpless!
"Hey Mark...Could you do us a favor and stop being a pedophile? Thanks man, 'prish-e-ate it."
Stop making excuses, and take responsibility. Your kind fuct up here.
ArtieFufkin From United States of America, joined May 2006, 704 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1736 times:
Quoting Gilligan (Reply 22): Stop looking for excuses, win an election on the issues for once.
Ah good one. So when the Dems takeover in November it will not be because of the "issues". Unlike the GOP wins which were not empty rhetoric, distortions, fear mongering....LOL
Yes the "issues"
Americans hate Social Security.
They like deficit spending.
They approve of the Iraq War.
They don't mind not having affordable health care.
They want their government to actively encourage jobs going overseas.
They want environmental rules ignored and gutted.
They don't mind having Congress lied to. (ie Senior Rx plan costs)
They want US reporters paid to write favorable stories.
They want to be wiretapped without Judicial oversite.
They want to remove habues corpus rights from foreign detainees.
They like having corporate lobbying donations having reached all time highs.
They want Jack Abramoff types influencing our Government.
They approve of GOP lawmakers Cunningham, Ney, Delay, Harris, Foley, Burns all being either in prison, being sent to prison, centured, or investigated for felonies.
25 ArtieFufkin: Well here's another "issue" out today. Iraq war casualties are at a two year high. "Last month, 776 U.S. troops were wounded in action in Iraq, the hi
26 Gilligan: Who is blaming anyone other than Foley? He is the one who sent the im's after being told not to have any contact. It is dems that keep suggesting tha
27 GuitrThree: Funny thing, if you Democrats weren't so busy about pushing this Foley issue, you might have actually heard this in the main steam media before today
28 Falcon84: Agreed, 100%. But this IS an issue, and cannot be avoided, GT.
29 MaverickM11: Looks like the whole Foley thing may be overshadowed by the whole "North Korea Nuclear testing" thing...and the whole "what is the Democrats' positio
30 ArtieFufkin: No Iraq is much more important and personally I don't think the Foley thing is that big a deal. But don't expect me to shed a tear that the media and
31 ArtieFufkin: Fat chance. This occurred on your boy's watch. You know that Iraq thing he started really just impressed the shit out of the USA's real threats like
32 B777-700: Clinton was very close to a disarmament agreement in 2000, and Bush pist that all away. As has been said, this is the GOP's problem. Wow, there's som
33 GuitrThree: The issue was Foley. And now he is gone. What is to carry on? How can you say this? You say it like it is FACT. Tell me: (1) Who covered it up? (2) W
34 MaverickM11: North Korea didn't exist before 2000? News to me . And how do you think that's going to manifest itself at the polls? Anything regarding national sec
35 MaverickM11: All people will recognize is that they have absolutely no clue what the Democrats' position on the matter is, but they DO know the Republicans at lea
36 B777-700: 1) Hassert and other top Republicans 2) I seen interviews on the news w/ other Republicans that said they told them. Were they really Dems in disguis
37 GuitrThree: We are talking about ethics in Congress. William Jefferson, is on tape, taking $100,000 in bribes. And you say this has absolutely nothing to do with
38 MaverickM11: Passive agressive snipes don't win votes. One day the Democrats, and you, will realize that you might want to actually have a position on the issue o
39 B777-700: No, we're talking about the "GOP Trying To Pull Dems Into Foley Scandal" That's what this thread is about. Again, you're trying to deflect. Nope, bec
40 MaverickM11: Well according to you he almost had a peace agreement with N. Korea so I guess anything is possible when you make it up Now that you've got your sarc
41 Gilligan: Let's see any evidence that anyone covered up anything. Nothing illegal in the emails and he was counseled on those. Hechose to continue the behaviou
42 AGM100: Now would be the time for a serious DEM candiate to make a move. I want someone from the party to come out with a plan. The FOLEY thing is ugly, and
43 B777-700: That's what the investigations will find out. I already addressed this. let's not go around in circles, shall we? Na, the neocons have gotten away wi
44 AGM100: Nothing really ,but it blows a 155mm hole though your only argument to vote against the GOP. Corruption. You sound like you hate the other side so ba
45 ArtieFufkin: Can you not see it's absurd to go back 20+ years to bring up examples of Dem corruption? Nobody here is claiming Dems don't have bad apples. But I'd b
46 B777-700: Hahaha Hardly. I can list many reasons not to vote GOP, their current corruption not being at the top of the list. I think they're destroying my coun
47 ArtieFufkin: Non partisan CREWs list of most corrupt lawmakers. Note: GOP Cunningham and Ney don't make the list because their in prison or going to prison. Also D
48 AGM100: OK this would be just the right time to do so. Not to vote for the GOP or ...why to vote for DEMS requires some thought... take your time. Hello ?? .
49 MaverickM11: That's the last time they were in control
50 ArtieFufkin: So let's just add this up. Out of 28 Lawmakers mentioned in the CREW report. 4 are Dems and 24 are GOP. Holy crap! That is a significant difference! H
51 Gilligan: Investigations are done based on evidence, lets hear your evidence for starting any investigation. That's evidence that has some basis in fact, not j
52 ArtieFufkin: This is just what I'm talking about. True Conservatives are out of power. Goldwater conservatives gone. They were law and order, for clean government,
53 Gilligan: and Clintonista's I heard plenty of dems trying to explain away the abuses brought to light in the early 90's which were institutional corruptions no
54 GuitrThree: This is a thread on an Airplane website. There is no "rule" that you can't use examples of truth to back up your claims, even if they aren't 100% on
55 Falcon84: Hey, GT, nice to see you back on here, buddy, even if you know I'll probably disagree with you about 99% of the time. I disagree. (see? ) It's more t
56 Seb146: I have not seen anybody mention this yet: I listen to both right talk and left talk. Randi Rhodes (left) played Nancy Pelosi calling for a 10 day inve
57 B777-700: No, this is the time to talk about the Foley scandal, not why you should vote for Democrats. Go start another post if you want to talk about that. De
58 Gilligan: Yes, they also said they told him they had counseled him not to have contact with the pages and he agreed. Are you telling me now that non-illegal be
59 Texdravid: Yeah, whatever, socialist-lover. How come you left out this one: 12). If you goof off during high school, don't take advantage of all the opportuniti
60 LHMARK: Hey, dickhead, my wife is one of those teachers. You paint her with that brush, I throw down. Check your easily digested generalizations, punk.
61 Texdravid: Oh, come off your "anger". Teachers who belong to these horrible unions are part and parcel of the problem as they support the horrible agenda of the
62 LHMARK: No, we won't. Obviously, the teachers in texas must have been stupid and inept, as your posts consistently demonstrate, but some people spend eleven-h
63 Texdravid: I was incredibly lucky to be born to supportive parents who thought that education was the key to success in this country. My teachers just did not m
64 Jaysit: Pity it had to be rural Texas. And Chennai. Doesn't get anymore mediocre and unimaginative than that. Sorry, just the facts.
65 Texdravid: Just another ad hominem attack by the attack hound of the beltway who has nothing better to do. I do thank you for your comments, which obviously com
66 GuitrThree: Yes, if AirTran is using facts and figures that are true, then you should believe them. If Delta is not doing good in a particular city, while at the
67 Jaysit: Why, thank you! You get a gold star and a cookie for that. Other such random bursts of insightfulness will surely take you places.
68 B777-700: What was illegal about Clinton getting a BJ? That got a harsh rebuke! They hypocrisy of the right is truly ridiculous. ^ Neocon spin. No, your proble
69 MaverickM11: Main Entry: hyp·o·crite Pronunciation: 'hi-p&-"krit Function: noun Etymology: Middle English ypocrite, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin hypocrita