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Age Discrimination  
User currently offlineWhyWhyZed From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 914 posts, RR: 16
Posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1496 times:

WARNING: RANT TO FOLLOW!

Age Discrimination can be defined as...

Quoting Wikipedia:
Ageism is bias against a person or group on the grounds of age. When that bias is the primary motivation behind acts of discrimination against that person or group, then those acts constitute age discrimination.

It is a sub-division of many other forms of discrimination that is not tolerated in many countries. Every country, state, province, company, etc. has their own Human rights Representative protecting their civilians or employees.

Ontario has their own: http://www.ohrc.on.ca/english/index.shtml
Canada has their own: http://www.chrc-ccdp.ca/default-en.asp

But why do so many forms of age discrimination get overlooked? Here are a couple examples...

Car Insurance:
This is a big one pretty much everywhere. How can insurance companies get away with charging much much more in car insurance for someone who is 16-25, than someone who is 40. This is besides the factor that females receive cheaper insurance than males.

Now I understand that we're younger, ignorant, immature, etc. But to place someone under a "dangerous" category, before we've even entered the road. Is not fair. Why not be fair, enter us in at the same price as everyone else, and then if we get into an accident that proves to be our fault... than you can skyrocket our rates through the roof, and out to space. But until then, how do you know I'll be any worse than the 65+ year olds who are alot worse than many "young" drivers I've ever seen.

Seniors Discounts:
Everywhere has a seniors discount. I understand that the old git's have done and gone through alot in their lives, but that gets recognized in other ways. What allows them to walk into a store, and demand a seniors discount? Now you're going to say... "Well Jason, they also have student discounts" and I'll be honest, it's great to have, and can sometimes make a big difference, but it's very rare to see Student discounts. That, and I don't go into any store asking or demanding for some sort of compensation. Hell, since I have to pay so much in car insurance, I should be able to save elsewhere.

Anyone got some more examples to share?...that's all I can think of at the moment.

Anyways, that is just my  twocents . I'd like to hear yours...

- Jason DePodesta

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStrasserB From Singapore, joined Nov 2005, 1541 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1488 times:

Quoting WhyWhyZed (Thread starter):
... the old git's ...

Could you please explain a little bit more precise what you really mean with "GIT" and let's hope that Skidmarks doesn't come across this thread.

Regarding the "Senior Discount" I can say that I really love it.



Still, even in the most arid desert is an airport somewhere ...
User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1479 times:

Quoting WhyWhyZed (Thread starter):
Anyways, that is just my  twocents  . I'd like to hear yours...

What would you know? You're only 16-20. You're not old enough to have an opinion, you young whippersnapper you ;o)

(Please see the sarcastic irony in my reply and not take me seriously)


User currently offlineWhyWhyZed From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 914 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1479 times:

Quoting StrasserB (Reply 1):
Could you please explain a little bit more precise what you really mean with "GIT" and let's hope that Skidmarks doesn't come across this thread.

By "git" I mean exactly what you think. I used that word to show exageration and anger into my beliefs. Skidmarks is used to it. He's a good guy though.  Smile

Quoting StrasserB (Reply 1):
Regarding the "Senior Discount" I can say that I really love it.

I'm sure you do. I would too if it applied to me, as I'm sure everyone else who it doesn't apply to, would. That's the point...


User currently offlineJAGflyer From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 3582 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1475 times:

Quoting WhyWhyZed (Thread starter):
Seniors Discounts:
Everywhere has a seniors discount. I understand that the old git's have done and gone through alot in their lives, but that gets recognized in other ways. What allows them to walk into a store, and demand a seniors discount? Now you're going to say... "Well Jason, they also have student discounts" and I'll be honest, it's great to have, and can sometimes make a big difference, but it's very rare to see Student discounts. That, and I don't go into any store asking or demanding for some sort of compensation. Hell, since I have to pay so much in car insurance, I should be able to save elsewhere.

Reason for seniors and students discount is simple. THEY DO NOT WORK (or if they do not as much as an adult), thus no/less income, thus give them a break on a few bucks.

As for car insurance; simply put younger drivers are less experienced and have less knowledge regarding limits and risk taking. My dad has been driving cars for 43 years (with ZERO collisions) and he can turn out of a street while cars are close to him because he has experience and knows how/when he can get out. I personally wait until I feel comfortable to turn out. Simple as that. Younger people are the ones who most often unsafely race.



Support the beer and soda can industry, recycle old airplanes!
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11701 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1475 times:

Statistically though when it comes to 17-25 year olds in the UK, they have by far the greater amount of crashes and accidents on the road than anyone else. It might not be fair, but that's the way it is. It also exactly the reason that I haven't been driving for the past three years and have a peddle bike instead biggrin 

Dan Smile



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1456 times:

Quoting WhyWhyZed (Thread starter):
Car Insurance:
This is a big one pretty much everywhere. How can insurance companies get away with charging much much more in car insurance for someone who is 16-25, than someone who is 40. This is besides the factor that females receive cheaper insurance than males.

Here's my take on that: Statistically, teens are more dangerous and if you're good, the rates will go down. If, all of a sudden, teen drivers became the safest on the planet (HAHA) then things would change. The accident rate for females has been higher than males recently, but I haven't seen any change. I think that insurance should start at about a 4 on a 1-5 scale and when you get old, it will be between 3-4, depending on your history. Teenagers engage in risky behavior and it gets them into trouble. It only takes one to mess it up for everyone else. I only drive once a week (if that) so my insurance is pretty low. If I drove every day, then it would be higher than my parents'.

Quoting WhyWhyZed (Thread starter):
Seniors Discounts:

NO OFFENSE MEANT BY THE FOLLOWING!

Seniors are older and some are slower than most and thus cannot experience all the same things as us young folk. They walk slower, can't be out as long, etc. Why should they pay the same rate as someone who can see the entire zoo when they may only get halfway through it? I know many seniors are extremely fit (I hope to be in 50 years!) and can do more than some middle-aged people, but everything is based on trends. The discount is good for some people, but a bonus for others, so it applies to all of them.


User currently offlineWhyWhyZed From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 914 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1438 times:

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 2):
What would you know? You're only 16-20. You're not old enough to have an opinion, you young whippersnapper you ;o)

I've seen enough, done enough, expierenced enough and some people who know me well enough can vouch for me.

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 2):
(Please see the sarcastic irony in my reply and not take me seriously)

Uh huh.

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 4):
Reason for seniors and students discount is simple. THEY DO NOT WORK (or if they do not as much as an adult), thus no/less income, thus give them a break on a few bucks.

Ok, I agree with you to the fact that they don't work... but I can play devils advocate very easily here. The elderly are also supported financially by the government because they can't work. Yes, I know they deserved it (in most cases, some milk the government.) but we're also the future. Some won't be able to live to the age of discounts. How's that fair?

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 4):
simply put younger drivers are less experienced and have less knowledge regarding limits and risk taking. My dad has been driving cars for 43 years (with ZERO collisions) and he can turn out of a street while cars are close to him because he has experience and knows how/when he can get out. I personally wait until I feel comfortable to turn out. Simple as that. Younger people are the ones who most often unsafely race.

Less experienced... yes
less knowledgable... sometimes

But your example proves what I said, and why they shouldn't make judgement on you automatically. your father has been driving for 43 years with no accidents. Then you go on to say that you drive cautiously because you are a new driver. That's good, and that's what should be done... but thats somewhat my point. When you're a new driver, you are extra cautious because you don't want to be in an accident, therefore most play it safe.... but are still categorized.

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 6):
Statistically, teens are more dangerous and if you're good, the rates will go down.

Not here. Well partially. Here it'll go down as you age, up until 25. Now of course if you have any accidents under your belt, it'll take longer to decrease.

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 6):
I think that insurance should start at about a 4 on a 1-5 scale and when you get old, it will be between 3-4, depending on your history.

Not sure if I understood this. But you basically agree with me that "young drivers" should start at the same rate?

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 6):
I only drive once a week (if that) so my insurance is pretty low. If I drove every day, then it would be higher than my parents'.

They don't charge us that way over here.

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 6):
Why should they pay the same rate as someone who can see the entire zoo when they may only get halfway through it?

Who's talking about the zoo? Those discounts or rates are fine, because that's completely understandable. I was referring to seniors discounts at for example at a hair stylist.... grrr no wait... a drug store... grrr no wait that just a bulk discount. Seriously though, I was referring to department stores, or any form of retail store.

EDIT: BTW, I just want to add that I am in no means some rude asshole. I don't take it personally, although it does upset me at times (the car insurance, not the discounts)... and this thread is more for discussion, to share thoughts and debate it out.

[Edited 2006-10-13 02:53:03]

User currently offlineStrasserB From Singapore, joined Nov 2005, 1541 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1430 times:

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 4):
Reason for seniors ... discount is simple. THEY DO NOT WORK

In fact this doesn't apply for all those  old  above 60.

Just think about the question who normally sits in the upper positions of a company or who normally has the biggest savings on his account? The kids? No, it's mostly a grandpa!

On the other hand I have to admit that a lot of the old-age pensioners don't know how to cover the costs of living but I definitely don't believe that the Seniors Discount always can be seen as a humanitarian act of compassion.

When I want to book ferry boat tickets from Italy to Greece then I prefer the company, which gives a discount of 50% on my ticket. And the ferry company is really happy that I have my wife, the kids and the grand kids with me and as well two cars and not to forget the cabins for the whole family, which cost more than a 5* hotel suite! That's business and not a social issue.

Rgds
Berni



Still, even in the most arid desert is an airport somewhere ...
User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1425 times:

Quoting WhyWhyZed (Reply 7):

But your example proves what I said, and why they shouldn't make judgement on you automatically. your father has been driving for 43 years with no accidents. Then you go on to say that you drive cautiously because you are a new driver. That's good, and that's what should be done... but thats somewhat my point. When you're a new driver, you are extra cautious because you don't want to be in an accident, therefore most play it safe.... but are still categorized.

Obviously not, because teen driver's are much more likely to be involved in accidents. We're twice as likely than any other demographic to be involved in a fatal accident.

Sometimes it is stupidy. Road racing, drunk driving, going way too fast, etc. I think most of it is just inexperience. Not knowing how fast to drive to avoid hydroplanning, not knowing how ice effects your braking distance, etc.

Senior discounts is just trying to appeal to a certain demographic. Students often get discounts too. I'm just guessing that seniors are more loyal than other demographics, hence businesses want to capture their business.

AAndrew


User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1390 times:

Quoting WhyWhyZed (Reply 7):

Not sure if I understood this. But you basically agree with me that "young drivers" should start at the same rate?

What I meant was on a scale from 1-5 (with 5 being high) teen drivers should start just shy of that. But...

Quoting WhyWhyZed (Reply 7):
They don't charge us that way over here.

I'm familiar with how they charge in America, so that is what I based my post on. Since they charge differently over there, my scale is not valid.

Quoting WhyWhyZed (Reply 7):
Seriously though, I was referring to department stores, or any form of retail store.

I think JAGflyer had a good idea on that one, a lot of them do not work. (I have a grandpa who is approaching 80 and he cannot stand staying at home, so he works.) Other than that, I can't think of a reason.


User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1377 times:

Quoting WhyWhyZed (Thread starter):
Is not fair.

Life ain't fair, my friend.

Quoting WhyWhyZed (Reply 7):
I've seen enough, done enough, expierenced enough

BAAAAHAAA - thats what I thought when I was 16-20. Lol! BTW - its experienced.

Quoting WhyWhyZed (Reply 7):
I was referring to department stores, or any form of retail store.

Like Ross store offering 10% discount for 55+ on Tuesday or somesuch.

Now to springboard off this topic, pilots have to retire at age 60. Age discrimination, no?


User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3012 posts, RR: 46
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 1360 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

The only "age discrimination" that got my attention so far is the fact that our local cell phone company gives free text messages to customers up to 27 years old.

I don't think this is fair: the only fair way to put it would be to give free texts to customers who are still studying and thus not earning money on a full-time job. But there are probably 27-year-olds around who earn more money than your average 40-year-old man.

Other than that, I don't think senior discounts are discriminating: when you're retired, you get less money (and that's *substantially* less, at least in this country). Therefore I don't see the problem.

Car insurance: statistically, younger people make more accidents. Insurance premiums are based on statistics. That's it.

-Manuel



Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
User currently offlineWhyWhyZed From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 914 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1327 times:

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 11):
Quoting WhyWhyZed (Thread starter):
Is not fair.

Life ain't fair, my friend.

Yes, I know. Like I said, I'm not deeply concerned about the situation and posted it mainly for discussions. But I of course have to defend myself since no one's taking my side.  Silly

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 11):
Quoting WhyWhyZed (Reply 7):
I've seen enough, done enough, expierenced enough

BAAAAHAAA - thats what I thought when I was 16-20. Lol! BTW - its experienced.

I never said i've experienced everything (.... I know you didn't either.), but like I said, i've experienced enough, and by far, much more than many (...but not all) my age. Also, I always use spell check... I guess I missed that one.  boxedin 

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 12):
The only "age discrimination" that got my attention so far is the fact that our local cell phone company gives free text messages to customers up to 27 years old.

I don't think this is fair: the only fair way to put it would be to give free texts to customers who are still studying and thus not earning money on a full-time job. But there are probably 27-year-olds around who earn more money than your average 40-year-old man.

Yeah that's unfair as well. But one of my main points of this thread, is how come these human rights organizations don't do anything about these scenarios.


User currently offlineRobertNL070 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2003, 4534 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1324 times:

Quoting WhyWhyZed (Thread starter):
before we've even entered the road

Exactly. You've answered your own question with your own words. Its all down to experience.

Quoting WhyWhyZed (Reply 7):
therefore most play it safe

I am convinced that you play it safe, but unfortunately a lot of young people do not.

Here in this country, almost every Sunday and Monday there are reports of young people involved in weekend car accidents. Testosterone-fuelled bravado.

If its any comfort, I am sure that quite a few of us when we were younger have fumed at extortionate car insurance premiums. I have.

Robert  bouncy 



Youth is a gift of nature. Age is a work of art.
User currently offlineRobertNL070 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2003, 4534 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1320 times:

Quoting WhyWhyZed (Reply 13):
human rights organizations

Forgive me for saying so, but I suspect that the Canadian Human Rights Commission has bigger fish to fry  biggrin 

Robert  bouncy 



Youth is a gift of nature. Age is a work of art.
User currently offlineMelpax From Australia, joined Apr 2005, 1648 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1315 times:

Over here at least, Insurance companies are one of the few businesses that are exempt from age discrimination laws, for obvious reasons....


Essendon - Whatever it takes......
User currently offlineNeilYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1310 times:

Look into a company in Markham that gives Auto Insurance, but there's a catch, you get a USB device that is attached to your engine, it monitors the times of day you drive, you turning, acceleration, breaking and speed characteristics and after a six month period you can send it in to them. If they are satisfied with your driving habits, they adjust your insurance accordingly, however, the chip can not be used to raise your rates. And if you don't feel like sending it in to them, you can erase it if you want and start over.

Now, why can insurance companies do this, because they are allowed to charge whatever they want, if people don't like the service then they can go elsewhere. It seems to be a pretty common agreement between insurance companies that young males get screwed. But if you look at the morons on the road, they're normally young males. I'm 21, and my insurance is a whore, but that's fine, I knew that going into it all.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13197 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1301 times:

Real and harmful age discrimiation is when you are over 50 and employers will not consider you as they want much younger (and cheaper) employees, or get rid of you with set up excuses for the same reason. This is despite that an 'older' employee or job applicant may be more productive due to their experience, less likely to take time off and more cooperative with their employer within reason.
As to age and car insurance rates, that is backed up with a huge database of real life experience that the underwriters use to determine those rates. In that situation it isn't discrimination. As to 'Senior' discounts, that is often to encourage spending from them. Many do have good incomes and by such discounts get their loyalty, to encourage their co-workers, family members and friends to go to such businesses and to do business at less busy times to justify overhead costs. Student discounts, although not very common in the USA (sometimes children or teens up to age 18 may be charged lower admission costs to entertainment facilities) as they are elsewhere in the world up to age 26, are to gain the loyalty of those customers as well. So as to discounts for both Seniors and Students, it is just a business decision.


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1298 times:

Quoting WhyWhyZed (Thread starter):
Now I understand that we're younger, ignorant, immature, etc

Good, I'm glad we're agreed then.  Smile

Being young (and beautiful) myself, I think there should definitely be discrimination against old people. especially those who

a) drive slowly
b) block up the queues in supermarkets
c) are named Andy Skidmarks, and therefore deserving of abuse and opprobrium.


User currently offlineRobertNL070 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2003, 4534 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1298 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 19):
(and beautiful)

Prove it  mischievous 

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 19):
opprobrium

Wots that?

Signed,

A.net <30 year olds



Youth is a gift of nature. Age is a work of art.
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1286 times:

Quoting RobertNL070 (Reply 20):
Prove it

Truth is beauty, therefore beauty is truth. I am beautiful, ergo I am truthful. QED.

Quoting RobertNL070 (Reply 20):
Wots that?

Kids these days  Yeah sure


User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1282 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 19):
Being young (and beautiful) myself, I think there should definitely be discrimination against old people. especially those who

a) drive slowly

That includes Peugeot 206 drivers of course ! (well in the UK at least)  Wink

Especially the younger ones - up their insurance charges I say Big grin



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineStrasserB From Singapore, joined Nov 2005, 1541 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1278 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 19):
opprobrium



Quoting RobertNL070 (Reply 20):
Wots that?

An album on CD (Brutal Old School Thrash Heavy Metal)!
Tracklist:
01 Digitrap
02 Discerning forces
03 Ancient rebellion
04 Dark entanglement
05 Drowing
06 Escapism
07 Merciless torture
08 Moments of despair
09 Blood conflict
10 Awakening to the filth

 biggrin 



Still, even in the most arid desert is an airport somewhere ...
User currently offlineRobertNL070 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2003, 4534 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1277 times:

Quoting StrasserB (Reply 23):

Being scornful are we?  biggrin 

 bouncy 



Youth is a gift of nature. Age is a work of art.
26 Post contains images Cornish : Don't worry Robert - 106 drivers are FAR worse
27 Vikkyvik : I'm not sure how that pertains to the discussion. I too have experienced a lot in my lifetime, but comparing how much you've experienced with how muc
28 Post contains images RobertNL070 : Friday 13th October! Take care. Robert
29 Post contains images Vikkyvik : Hah! Good point. Not to mention, I work in Salem, MA....the Halloween capital of, well, the US maybe? ~Vik
30 IFEMaster : Oh, FFS. Despite my clear disclaimer to the fact, you still don't get that I was responding to your claims of age discrimination by discriminating ag
31 Post contains images WhyWhyZed : Yeah, about how us canadian's won't adjust to the east indian culture. All other replies, I am just going to say "okay" and not bother replying to th
32 EmiratesA345 : Tell me about it. I wanted to buy myself a 2006 Honda Civic Coupe. When the monthly payment was around $500, and the monthly insurance cost was $475,
33 Vikkyvik : Holy freaking crap! Is that in Canadian dollars, or American? If Canadian, what does that work out to in American dollars? For my '02 Civic, insuranc
34 Post contains links WhyWhyZed : Yup, I have a 2003 Ford Taurus (hardly considered a sports car, or nything of the sorts), and I'm now being charged just under $300 CAD a month, and
35 StrasserB : Perhaps it's the "car" on his profile page?
36 SlamClick : They don't. They set their overall rates so as to assure their own financial solvency as required by law. Then they prorate the shares of that overal
37 Post contains images Vikkyvik : Hmmm, OK, thanks for the link. Haha, that's one large, ugly Civic Coupe. Slam, for your interest:
38 EmiratesA345 : Oh no. Thats a New Flyer D40LF. Its about 6 times larger than a Honda Civic Coupe. Oddly enough I drive that bus at work everytime I'm there, and the
39 Post contains images WhyWhyZed : But Mark, you're below the age of 25. That's unheard of at your/our age, to not see that thing smashed up by now because of your lack of expierence.
40 Post contains images Vikkyvik : See, now you done gone and jinxed him!
41 WhyWhyZed : I hope not, because if something happens... he doesn't live THAT far away for him and his "posse" to come pay me a visit with some baseball bats, gun
42 Post contains images EmiratesA345 : Not to mention with a ride like that, I can fit 38 seated and 40 standing. So you better watch your back! Mark
43 Lnglive1011yyz : NOT to mention -- most teens go under mommy and daddy's insurance.. what they don't realize, is that when it's time to grow up and pay for your OWN i
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