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Should The Veil-wearing Teacher Be Sacked?  
User currently offlineThePRGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2459 times:

I'm sure this will create a interesting viewpoint on peoples views.
News report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/6046992.stm
On the support side, it is her religion, and if that is what she believes in then fair enough.

On the other side of things however, she is teaching in a British school, and many (including me) would say that she should conform to British Culture, as she is residing here.
There is talk of her being sacked over her refusal to remove the veil.
What does everyone else think?
Thanks
Alex

168 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2457 times:

Quoting ThePRGuy (Thread starter):
On the other side of things however, she is teaching in a British school, and many (including me) would say that she should conform to British Culture, as she is residing here.

There is no 'British culture'.

Apparently the kids 'complained' that they couldn't tell what she was saying. If a black English teacher were sacked because kids 'couldn't understand what he was saying', wouldn't there be uproar?

This is a school, for crying out loud. Kids are going to meet people who are different from them and, yes!, may even wear such strange things are veils! Trying to isolate them at school is stupid, and will produce bigots.


User currently offlineThePRGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2453 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 1):
There is no 'British culture'.

Here we go again - another complaining Briton. While I have to agree that what 'culture' is left is being diminished - wouldn't you agree that you would rather have some kind of culture, than a complete medley of other cultures that have been wired together from non-native people?

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 1):

Apparently the kids 'complained' that they couldn't tell what she was saying.

Yes, I can appreciate that, but this is not the whole story.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 1):
Trying to isolate them at school is stupid, and will produce bigots.

Its not isolation, a multi-cultural teaching environment isn't going to work inside a school. Its not a case of 'hes black so he should get behind that door so we can't see him' and you KNOW that. Its a little more complex than that.

Thanks
Alex


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2445 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 1):
There is no 'British culture'.

Really?

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 1):
This is a school, for crying out loud. Kids are going to meet people who are different from them and, yes!, may even wear such strange things are veils! Trying to isolate them at school is stupid, and will produce bigots.

This is a language class right?

"found it hard to understand her during English language lessons"

When learning a language it is important to not only hear, but also to see, so covering ones mouth could be a problem.

Why can't they just wear the "head scarf" and adapt...maybe just a little?


User currently offlineThePRGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2443 times:

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 3):
Why can't they just wear the "head scarf" and adapt...maybe just a little?

Agreed
There should be a limit on what people in a teaching environment (and in general frankly) can wear, and they should have to adhere to some constraints.
If I went into a catholic church in Italy I would be asked to cover my shoulders (not that they wouldnt be covered mind!)
If I go into a mosque (which I do regularly as I have friends there) I am asked to wear a headscarve as a guest. I think this is totally fair as it is their beliefs.

Its just very sad, that many people (including 777236ER) are perfectly happy to abandon the British Culture and let any old thing happen.

Rant over. For now.
Alex


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2435 times:

Personally, I have a great dislike of the full veil thing - it's slightly stand-offish to say you're not fit to look upon my face, you lustful deviant male person you. Whatever the religious reasoning, let's be brutally honest here, word of God or not, it's male chauvinism to suggest that women have to cover up completely and men don't (and yes I know the rules about modest dress apply to both sexes) - a full veil is taking it way too far, and I suspect that many Muslim women, if they aren't forced into it (which probably is the case for a significant number) adopt it as a sort of badge of differentness, proclaiming their cultural distinctiveness to the world.

All right, if they feel they must, we can't dictate to a person what they must and mustn't wear (even if their religion does), but to hide behind the inviolable walls of religion to defend it is disingenous. I'd be deeply offended by the notion that any religion has the right to tell me what to wear, and the fact that the rules have been dictated by a rabidly misogynist caveman world-view just makes it less acceptible. Frankly I'm astonished that educated women like teachers put up with it, unless my suspicion that it's a deliberate act of self-differentiation turns out to be true.


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2431 times:

Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 2):
Here we go again - another complaining Briton.

Uh, aren't you a complaining Briton too? If not, what was the thread starter all about?!

Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 2):
While I have to agree that what 'culture' is left is being diminished - wouldn't you agree that you would rather have some kind of culture, than a complete medley of other cultures that have been wired together from non-native people?

How is the British culture diminishing? Forcing Muslims to take off their veils doesn't improve or increase British culture!

Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 2):
Its not isolation, a multi-cultural teaching environment isn't going to work inside a school. Its not a case of 'hes black so he should get behind that door so we can't see him' and you KNOW that. Its a little more complex than that.

A mult-cultural teaching environment isn't going to work in a school? That's racist nonsense. Should all teachers be blond-haired, Christian, Anglo-Saxons, with school meals being pie and chips, history focussing on how great the Empire was and little concern for Johnny foreigners?

Don't be daft - school is a place where kids learn. To suggest that people of other culture shouldn't be allowed to teacher, or that they would somehow not teach as well, would produce a bunch of ignorant bigots last seen in The Famous Five books.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 3):
Really?

Yes, really.

Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 4):

Its just very sad, that many people (including 777236ER) are perfectly happy to abandon the British Culture and let any old thing happen.

Please define the British culture then.


User currently offlineThePRGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2431 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 5):
I have a great dislike of the full veil thing

As do I
My personal view on it is a very imposing and frankly arrogant attitude which is completely out of place everywhere here.
People (probably 777236ER) will call me a racist, I am not. I just don't like to see this. I'm not selfish, I'm not a Daily Mail reader, but its a strong view that I hold.
THanks
Alex


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2430 times:

Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 7):
People (probably 777236ER) will call me a racist, I am not. I

You don't want 'multi-cultural' teachers.


User currently offlineAirways1 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 560 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2431 times:

Quoting ThePRGuy (Thread starter):
Should The Veil-wearing Teacher Be Sacked?

Absolutely, yes. Not because of her wearing the veil, or being muslim, but just because she's an idiot.

Watch the interview to see what I mean:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6053298.stm

Would you want her teaching your kid?


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2430 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 5):
Frankly I'm astonished that educated women like teachers put up with it, unless my suspicion that it's a deliberate act of self-differentiation turns out to be true.

I think you have hit the nail on the head (so to speak).


User currently offlineThePRGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2431 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 6):
Uh, aren't you a complaining Briton too? If not, what was the thread starter all about?!

Accepted

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 6):
How is the British culture diminishing?

Ermmm by letting the whole 'multi-cultural' attitude getting OUT OF HAND.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 6):
That's racist nonsense

No its not. It can be very imposing and have an impact on an education. Go figure.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 6):
ignorant bigots

One of your favourite words that isn;t it.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 6):
Please define the British culture then.

I AGREE with you that there is not much culture to shake a stick at, but the issue raised here isn't exactly contributing is it.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 8):
You don't want 'multi-cultural' teachers.

Those words never passed my mouth, stop jumping to conclusions.

I reiterate, do not call me a racist.
Thanks
Alex

[Edited 2006-10-15 18:36:40]

User currently offline9V From China, joined Aug 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2417 times:

The fact that she went for the job interview at the school not wearing the veil says something I think. If I was a child in school and the teacher wore a veil that completely covered her face I would actually find it quite intimidating and frightening to be honest.

And I would find it a damn sight more intimidating than a female teacher wearing a cross around her neck!!!!

 Angry


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2417 times:

Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 11):

Ermmm by letting the whole 'multi-cultural' attitude getting OUT OF HAND.

And now it begins, the type of shouting usually limited to BNP conferences.

Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 11):
I AGREE with you that there is not much culture to shake a stick at, but the issue raised here isn't exactly contributing is it.

So you agree there isn't a unified, universal British culture, yet you want to protect it?

Take some time before you reply next time, have a bit of a think. You don't want to be called a racist, yet you don't want 'multi-cultural' teachers. You don't think there's 'not much' British culture, yet she should conform to that culture.

If you can't even tell me what British culture is, then how can we protect it?!


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2402 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 6):
produce a bunch of ignorant bigots last seen in The Famous Five books.

How were the Famous Five ever bigotted ? Just because they weren't all differently-able elderly Afro-Caribbean Lesbian/Gay/Transgendered persons, doesn't make them bigotted - being young, white and in most respects average, is not a Crime Against Humanity. Calm down.


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2402 times:

The interview is intersting.

During her interview for the job, there was a male in the room and she did not wear the veil....so really what is her point her?

To me, she is just trying to stir up trouble.


User currently offlineThePRGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2398 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 13):
And now it begins, the type of shouting usually limited to BNP conferences.

Here we go again. I'm neither BNP or Tory, and I am certainly not racist, you evidently have a bee in your bonnet with anyone who questions religious issues. My point was that it can be INTIMIDATING especially in a school environment. How can you not understand that, its very basic.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 13):
yet you don't want 'multi-cultural' teachers.

I repeat I never said that. I am a student myself and am taught in a multi-cultural environment, just none in the style of this Yorkshire school.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 13):
You don't think there's 'not much' British culture, yet she should conform to that culture.

There is not much of a culture to speak of, but there is still some lying around somewhere. The fact of the matter is the entire country will be like an airport before long. A mixed medley of different strands of culture, which despite what the pro-immigration MP's want to say doesn';t really work. (And I am pro-immigration)
Thanks
Alex


User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2398 times:

Quoting ThePRGuy (Thread starter):
British school,

Not 'just a Brittish school', but "Headfield Church of England Junior School"
That's like a jewish teacher insisting on wearing a Yamika while teaching at a Catholic school.

This 'woman' should be deported for not being intelligent enough to be in western society.


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2398 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 14):
How were the Famous Five ever bigotted ?

Why then do current prints cut out bits like 'his mean blackened face'?

Then again, at least she didn't start prattling on about Golliwogs in those books.


User currently offlineThePRGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2386 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 18):
Why then do current prints cut out bits like 'his mean blackened face'?

Hello Mr Political Correct.
Ever thought that could have been an extract from someone that had just cleared out a chimney. Or been fixing a car?
You are unbelievable.


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2372 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 18):
Why then do current prints cut out bits like 'his mean blackened face'?

Without seeing the full quote and context, it's hard to say - seeing as the Famous Five never went abroad to my recollection, and the books were written in the first half of the last century, so the likelihood of this referring to actual skin colour is slim. After all, would you use the term "blackened" to describe an African person's skin ? It could actually referred to a deep tan, as the term "blackened" was used as in "blackened by the sun" - how is that racist ? It's just a bit archaic. PC gone mad, I am inclined to suspect.

On a similiar note, have you ever seen the book "Little Black Sambo" ? I know this book is no longer published in the UK as it is seen as racist, but the actual story is in no sense racist at all, it's actually quite cute and shows the protagonist to be intelligent, brave and resourceful. Just goes to show that PCness can be carried to extremes.


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2365 times:

Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 19):

Hello Mr Political Correct.
Ever thought that could have been an extract from someone that had just cleared out a chimney. Or been fixing a car?
You are unbelievable.

Have you even read the Famous Five? Y'know, the ones where George (who used a nickname to sound 'more like a boy) was 'just as good as a boy'? The ones where little 50s housewife Anne was the female role-model? The boys always going off to fight the (invariably lower-class) baddies whilst the girls were forced to stay in the tents?

Come on, the Famous Five were outdated even in the 50s!


User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13738 posts, RR: 19
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2366 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 5):
it's slightly stand-offish to say you're not fit to look upon my face, you lustful deviant male person you.

You must have lived in England a while to have such a good command of English! Big grin Kudos

Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 16):
I'm neither BNP or Tory

Thank f**k for that!




I agree the children should come first. Unfortunately (very unfortunate) whether she could be understood or not is debatable. I normally side with common sense however on this issue, I am not totally swayed by the argument that the veil has anything to do with it. I have more of a problem with her accent.

Intriguing.

I was going to write something about British culture but I don't think it's relevant to the thread.



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2354 times:

I think she should be sacked! I tried to watch the video and could not understand her and stopped watching.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineThePRGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2354 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 21):

Yes I do remember reading some Famous Five, but I cannot remember much of it.
True I can accept some of the things said were questionable, but this was nearly 60 years ago.

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 22):

Regardless of whether they understand her or not, her dress-code can be considered intimidating, its a simple fact - it CAN be considered intimidating.
Thanks
Alex


25 Singapore_Air : What I was saying is that she was sacked I presume because she "was asked to remove the veil after pupils found it hard to understand her during Engl
26 Post contains images 9V :
27 777236ER : Black people were intimidating to good ol' Ju and Dick.
28 RichardPrice : Hey, I grew up on the Famous Five (and Secret Seven and all the rest of the Blyton series) in the 1980s, nothing wrong with them at all. The books ar
29 JGPH1A : I would suggest you re-read them - I don't know where you got your impressions of these books, but they are sadly warped. To even imagine that anyone
30 Vc10 : Why in debates like this do people always have to say " I am not a racist" or "I agree with immigration" well that is if you appear to be a white pers
31 777236ER : It's not even about offence, the books are ridiculous. Not only do they patronise kids with stupid language, but they portray stupid sitations. Horse
32 Kaddyuk : Perhaps you should be... You'd agree with most of their mis-informed articles...!
33 Post contains images 9V : Who remembers Captain Pugwash aboard his ship The Black Pig and his crew Master Bates and Pirate Willy?
34 ThePRGuy : Exactly, sadly some of our more confrontational aquaintances here are struggling to make 2 + 2 with this fact. I don't see what you are trying to ach
35 777236ER : Back to your original point, why haven't you yet defined the British culture you're so keen on defending?
36 ThePRGuy : Again, your desire to rip someone apart over racial hatred becomes apparent. I have agreed with you, there is not a great deal of culture. Perhaps if
37 9V : Personally I don't think this has anything to do with culture. It's about children in a classroom not being able to understand their teacher and poss
38 ThePRGuy : He clearly doesn't care about how children grow up in this country, evidently he is not affected at all by multi-culturalist society, and is therefor
39 Singapore_Air : I was expecting some laughs from that. Hmm.
40 777236ER : You didn't really listen to me and take a five minute break between posts did you? Bullet points generally have, uh, bullet points. If there isn't a
41 RichardPrice : I guess you dont remember your childhood. Kids dont want accuracy, they want fun and adventure - the Five could drive horsedrawn carriages, they coul
42 9V : 777236ER, Answer me this. Do you think it's ok for a women to teach kids with her face covered and at the same time a BA flight attendant not be allow
43 ThePRGuy : I couldn't be bothered, and I have no intention to please a pedantic arrogant man like yourself. You understand the basics of my point. You also unde
44 777236ER : BA have a right to implement whatever policy they want. As it is, the problem is that BA apparently relaxes the rules for some people and not for oth
45 777236ER : You said that the woman should 'conform to British Culture' (verbatim), then you went on to say you don't think there is a significant British cultur
46 Post contains images 9V : But the school hasn't? That's a valid point.
47 ThePRGuy : I admitted that there is not a significant culture here, however that is NOT to say that there is none at all. (Your statement) My suggestion is to p
48 777236ER : The school is a state-owned organisation that has a moral duty to perform (teaching kids). It's not a business that's simply concerned with carting p
49 Post contains images Skidmarks : This woman has adopted a devious and dual standard method to obtain employment. She did not wear the veil for the interview in order to gain the job.
50 Post contains images 9V : I think we should all calm down and go and have a cup of tea! (a part of British culture). Anyway, Coronation Street's on soon (another part of Britis
51 Post contains images JGPH1A : I thought it was a CofE school, which is what makes it so odd. Does that count as grant-maintained - I don't know. I know they have an additional ele
52 VC10 : The PR guy, If you start a topic I think he can pick on you as the topic is about your views. What you have to do is answers his points, but by furthe
53 ThePRGuy : True. But in some ways you can liken a school to a business in that there is a turnover of pupils, if pupils fail its a place to improve, if pupils p
54 Post contains images ThePRGuy : I accept your point. I am indeed drinking a cup of tea, and I have just finished delicious roast beef and yorkshire puddings. 2 pieces of fantastic b
55 Post contains images 9V : Ok let's all agree to disagree. I still can't believe Fred's dead....
56 JGPH1A : It's not proper English tea unless you have a biscuit with it. Dead in the show, or dead for real ? And in Eastenders, who reckons Ian is actually le
57 ThePRGuy : Hmmm true. Plus it is an 'immigrant' technically. Yes, 777 I just said immigrant, I must be racist. what, in a repeat event of what Mel did just a fe
58 Post contains images Skidmarks : Sheeeeesh!! Going off topic is one thing, talking about bloody soaps is another, you sad bunch!! I'm going to do the ironing thanks to you lot! Andy
59 Post contains images Singapore_Air : Why don't you watch the X Factor reruns on ITV2 while you're at it. Be cultulral a.net style!
60 Jamie757 : Yes it is. Unfortunately, she seems to be quite selective in when she believes in her religion. I agree. The fact that she has now decided to start w
61 Post contains images 9V : Yep. He'll be seen in Panto over Christmas. That guy has had as many different kids as he has wive's in the show!
62 Luv2fly : I really think the way she got the job by not wearing the veil and then showing up wearing it she should have been fired on the spot, day one. Pure an
63 ThePRGuy : Careful there, you don't want the iron to fall onto your wheelchair now! Yes, fact of the matter is she got the job without wearing it, which is comp
64 777236ER : In Manchester I can go for a curry in Rusholme Chinese in Chinatown, a drink on Canal Street, I can watch a Bollywood film at the Printworks or the C
65 777236ER : And not because she's a hypocrite, but because she should 'conform' to a British culture you can't even identify!
66 ThePRGuy : Absolutely, totally with you there, but have you never been to a proper British Cafe for a fryup? Well yes because shes a hypocrit, and because she i
67 777236ER : You can't even get a good Black Pudding in the south...just goes to show that British culture isn't as black and white as you'd like to think. I thin
68 9V : If you actually listen to what the woman said later, she said that the interview was with a woman and was asked if she minded removing the veil. As sh
69 Post contains images Skidmarks : Damn right you can't, disgusting stuff! Andy
70 777236ER : I hope you're joking. Black pudding comes straight from the gods.
71 ThePRGuy : So you have experienced every british cafe/diner in the south? I bet. Not if they cannnot understand the english she is speaking. Common sense really
72 JGPH1A : If ever you're in need of a good fry-up, there is the most amazing Greasy Spoon caff near LHR, just down the road from the Green Man pub at Hatton Cr
73 Post contains images ThePRGuy : aka the blood and fat left over from the meat processes. Anyone against meat [not me] check out the slanted Anti-hippie post i posted earlier Alex
74 777236ER : But that's not the argument you were making before. One was enough.
75 Post contains images JGPH1A : Black pudding is the toejam of the ichor-God Bel-Shahamaroth and is subject to immediate and binding fatwah ! Ewuwuwuwww - eating dried scabs !
76 ThePRGuy : Do you come to all of your conclusions and make suggestions as if fact over just one experience of each thing? ie. Have you experience ONE person in
77 VC10 : No I am afraid a lot of words will not do as an answer, because I am sure there is more to Indian culture than a "curry house" etc and although you m
78 Post contains images 777236ER : No, you were going for the culture aspect for quite a long time. Only when it comes to black pudding. Beautiful stuff! Whilst we're on about such del
79 ThePRGuy : Yes I was, and I still hold the same views, as you have argued with little or no fact for this entire time. Yuck.
80 777236ER : So then you come down to 'what is British culture?' If you won't even let me use ethnic foods are an example of 'immigrant cultures', then how do you
81 777236ER : Sorry mate, you're the one who came up with this:
82 ThePRGuy : And your point? To be pedantic 777, you enjoy black pudding which is a part of british culture. Therefore destroying your 'there is no british cultur
83 777236ER : Part of Irish, Scottish and Northern English culture, actually.
84 ThePRGuy : Great Britain Thanks Alex
85 777236ER : No, no, you can't really get nice black pudding in the south. And if you yourself came up here, went into a greasy spoon, and didn't order black pudd
86 ThePRGuy : Rick Stein has a cafe which serves [mainly fish] but also a very good black pudding in Padstow. This is all according to my dad, who is scottish, and
87 VC10 : Now come on this is a bit wishy washy answer, which I am sure you would not have accepted if someone had given it to your question " describe what is
88 777236ER : My point is that southerners shouldn't be forced to eat black pudding when they up up norf! As far as I can see, this woman is a hypocrite and probab
89 ThePRGuy : What is unreasonable in that statement.
90 9V : Why? What's wrong with British culture? Are you anti British or something?[Edited 2006-10-15 21:05:41]
91 Post contains images 777236ER : The black pudding, for starters.
92 ThePRGuy : I reckon he is otherwise he wouldn't have attacked this thread with such passion See now you are completely out of points you are starting this rant
93 Singapore_Air : Go to bed!
94 Post contains images 9V : Black pudding is a fundamental ingredient of a good English Breakfast. It might give you a heart attack if consumed too much but it's an essential pa
95 ThePRGuy : Err.......and the reason for this was?
96 Post contains images VC10 : [quote=777236ER,reply=83]Part of Irish, Scottish and Northern English culture, actually. There you go again with the wrong facts as Black Pudding is p
97 ThePRGuy : Yes, and to stop eating Black Pudding - as its British - so must be non-existant or horrible!
98 777236ER : Chill out! You're 16-20, shouldn't you be off binge drinking, smoking and getting chlamydia?
99 ThePRGuy : No that was last night - I have studying to do tomorrow. But seriously, back to the point in question. Alex
100 Fumanchewd : This thread reminds me of that Pink Floyd song... you know the one where they go, "I see your veil move, but I can't see what your saying...Iiiiiiiiii
101 JAGflyer : Why can't she wear a Hijab rather than this "Burka". Isn't that veil the kind woman were forced to wear by the Taliban? If she is out of the strict co
102 Post contains images 9V : Come on 777236ER, imagine you are an 8 year old schoolkid, are you telling me you wouldn't find this a bit intimidating?
103 ThePRGuy : Exactly it is incredibly intimidating, that was another of my points - one which 777 shunned completely. Alex
104 JAGflyer : I see your lips move by I can't here what your saying. Iiiii have become, comfortably numb.
105 Fumanchewd : Drats. I always misunderstand songs.
106 Post contains images JGPH1A : That would explain it then ! Black pudding should be stamped out along with illiteracy and life-threatening crack-habits, and other afflictions of th
107 777236ER : Back in the 50s, I'm sure you could post a picture of a black man and suggest the same thing. But what's your point? You just seem to have a bit of a
108 ThePRGuy : Back on topic - point in question is that this woman is not necessarily a good influence on the children she is supporting, and the way in which she g
109 9V : Not really. I've never found black people intimidating whatsoever.
110 777236ER : Pleanty of British citizens are Muslims. Why can't a Brit wear whatever they want?
111 ThePRGuy : 777 is tugging at extreme comments more and more during this thread, and basing most of his points on the famous five series of books. Quite interest
112 ThePRGuy : GO into a catholic church in Italy with no shirt on. Walk around a religious city in Pakistan wearing any old rubbish. Then come back and finally rea
113 Fumanchewd : That has to be the silliest comment of the thread. You are really stretching it. A hooded person is more intimidating than your average black man eve
114 ThePRGuy : Yes. Frankly, 777 is doing his best to make every poster here appear a racist bigot. To use his phrases of course. Alex
115 777236ER : But my point is exactly the same arguments were made back in the 50s. Children will be exposed to people wearing veils, like it or not. Why should sc
116 ThePRGuy : I have never said that I said there wasn't much Get your facts straight.
117 777236ER : Go on then, give us some examples.
118 ThePRGuy : Cream teas Black Pudding (highly regarded by you) Darts Snooker Rugby Seaside holidays and those things that you put your head through and it takes t
119 QR332 : From a Muslim - sack her. The niqab/burka is hardly required by Islam and is mostly a cultural thing, she can easily wear a normal headscarf which is
120 Post contains images JGPH1A : All of those should be banned by international treaty as being degrading and inhuman torture Cream teas are good though, as long as it's proper clott
121 777236ER : And how does letting Muslims wear veils impact on any of that?
122 ThePRGuy : Thankyou for your input, most helpful Clotted cream up here doesn't taste as good as clotted cream from the west country. I love seaside holidays, lo
123 ThePRGuy : Here we go again. Well for one its intimidating to quite a lot of people, and can be seen as arrogant. Religion should not be left to govern, its as
124 777236ER : You said that we should protect our culture, yet you can't explain how letting a Muslim woman wear a veil impacts on any of the culture you've mentio
125 ThePRGuy : Stop pulling me apart. How am I supposed to put my beliefs into material words?
126 9V : I don't doubt that. But in a school envioronment here in the UK, personally I find it unacceptable. That's just my view. You can be as PC as you want
127 QR332 : When you allow a woman who isn't an effective teacher to remain simply for political correctness, it is ruining your culture.
128 Post contains links MD11Engineer : Tunisia is now enforcing a ban of the veil in for women in public places under a 1981 law. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6053380.stm: "Police
129 ThePRGuy : Yes, the primary concern = childs education. Perhaps 777 didn;t experience these negative impacts on his education, or maybe he just does not care. E
130 Post contains images JGPH1A : Amazingly enough, they actually have coastlines in other countries too. They even let you walk along them, and (best of all) the sun actually SHINES.
131 ThePRGuy : Haha I know I was being sarcastic Off to the dominican republic at Christmas, beaches there too - I of course will adhere to any cultural beliefs the
132 QR332 : See, that I completley disagree with. Promoting secularism is one thing, but alienating a huge amount of the population in order to appear moderate t
133 JGPH1A : I believe the cultural mores in that part of the world require the consumption of rum-based beverages with umbrellas in them every evening at sunset.
134 Post contains images Skidmarks : Can't play darts huh? Andy
135 777236ER : Try. If you feel that she should conform to British culture so that British culture isn't erroded, you should be able to back that up. HOW?
136 JGPH1A : Because you are saying effectively that it is OK to be no good in your job as long as you belong to a minority, because we won't fire you to avoid hu
137 QR332 : By sacrificing the children's education, by not upholding your culture's standards, and by giving up very important things in order to please everyon
138 Post contains images ThePRGuy : For that alone you are going on my RU list OK one example I live in Maidenhead, a delightful town in Berkshire. The idea of this 'multi-cultural' env
139 Post contains images JGPH1A : Can, just don't want to - Dart's - The Sport Of Plumbers. Visible bumcracks are part of the uniform
140 Post contains images Skidmarks : Right up your street, especially in uniform !! Andy
141 Post contains images 9V : Shame on you! Does it have a McDonalds?
142 ThePRGuy : Yes it does and a BK and a subway and a pizza hut and a KFC and a papa johns and a Dominoes Proper BRITISH culture there.
143 Post contains images Skidmarks : Andy
144 777236ER : But the point raised by ThePRGuy (and effectively QR332) had nothing to do with the quality of her job, but merely her beliefs and culture. Sack her
145 ThePRGuy : Oh shoosh old man I bet you remember having a nice meal at a Wimpy restaurant? Now thats proper
146 ThePRGuy : The isolation leads to large groups of racial indifference which leads to unrest and racial hatred. Now I'm sorry but if you don't consider any of th
147 Post contains images MD11Engineer : Mind, this comes from a person with a Palaestinian Muslim background, living in the Middle East. Jan
148 777236ER : You're making too many jumps there. The alternative would be some sort of French integration, which as shown time and again, doesn't work.
149 QR332 : Hold on there... I made it pretty clear that it is wrong if she is sacked for simply wearing a veil. My point is that too much political correctness
150 ThePRGuy : No I am not making jumps, I have seen these racial problems arise and cause problems. Integration is the idea in a multi-cultural society, and it sim
151 VC10 : I have just remembered that recently I have seen notices on the doors of shops instructing motorcyclist that they cannot enter unless they remove thei
152 ThePRGuy : Suprise Suprise.... More Discrimination that arises from religion. And this kind of SEPERATION is what is killing britain. Simple as that.
153 777236ER : No, no, integration and multi-culturalism are separate ideas. Why not simply enforce the rules and take the hit from alienating the Muslim population
154 Post contains images JGPH1A : This is not the government limiting anything, this is an employer telling an employee that their religious accoutrements are detrimental to the effec
155 ThePRGuy : No, integration is the key to a multi-cultural society. The government say it themselves.
156 VC10 : Just remembered something else , the new speed cameras can and do take photos of the car and the driver to prove who was driving how can this be done
157 ThePRGuy : And frankly, that is the attitude that should be taken. If the veil thing or any other religious attribute renders a law impossible, then they should
158 777236ER : Ah, but in this case it's a school, a government organisation. As I've said before, sack her if she's rubbish, but don't sack her simply because she
159 Post contains images RobertNL070 : Candidate teacher applies for a position teaching English at a British junior school. Candidate teacher's application is successful. Candidate teacher
160 Post contains images L410Turbolet : If anyone wants an idea what is the problem of today's Europe then reread 777236ER's opinions. He's classic example of the naive multi-kulti at all co
161 ThePRGuy : Your talking more and more jibberish as you go along. You completely evaded what I said, and what you did say made very little sense regarding the is
162 JAGflyer : The Burqa is a mandated head cover by the (prior) Taliban which women do not like. So why do they willingly wear it when they have the freedom not to?
163 BigOrange : It's being diminished by all the foreigners coming into the country and making everybody change their ways to accept them. If they want to live in th
164 ThePRGuy : Yes, YES! Thank god we have another sane person around here.
165 9V : As I have already said, it has NOTHING to do with religion. It's no different to talking to someone face to face who is wearing dark sunglasses. It's
166 TedTAce : I know this isn't an "American" thread but there is relevancy especially when the invasion of Spanish is considered. America is 'the melting pot' whe
167 ArtieFufkin : "Please define the British culture then?" Well for starters it's a healthy dose of resistance to religious orthodoxy. Henry the 8th? Mild mannered Pre
168 ThePRGuy : Yep. Its been established before that it is not necessary for the Islamic religion.
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