Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Discrimination?  
User currently offlineCxsjr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 903 times:

Hi folks,

Where my partner works, the subject of Christmas holidays has just been raised, to determine who wants what time off over the festive period.

They have been told that people with children will be given first priority as "it's a family time" (sorry but I thought parents, sisters, nieces and nephews were part of my family too?). Next in line will be those with long distances to travel over the holiday period.

Short of adopting a child or lying about where we're spending Christmas, looks like we're at the end of the line and will get to choose from the time time that's left after everyone else has picked their days: this to me seems totally unethical, not to mention probably illegal?

OK, reaching agreement on time off with your colleagues on this basis is one thing, but to actually have a company publish that this is how they will allocate holiday can't be right, can it?

Any thoughts or similar experiences?

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMainMAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 2086 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 897 times:

Quoting Cxsjr (Thread starter):
They have been told that people with children will be given first priority as "it's a family time" (sorry but I thought parents, sisters, nieces and nephews were part of my family too?). Next in line will be those with long distances to travel over the holiday period.

It's definitely not ethical, and it's quite possibly illegal, although I'm not sure under which pretext.

I work on a shift system too, and some years ago I found that the managers bent over backwards to accommodate parents. At the time my working and home life was a Grade A f***ing nightmare because I had my 3 year old sister living with me for half the week.

She's still here now, aged 12 and nowadays I work for agencies, so I tell people what I will and will not do.

In answer to your question, LIE! Nobody gives a shit about you, so extend the courtesy to them.


User currently offlineSkidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 882 times:

When I was in the RAF, the leave used to be worked out (in some places, not all) by whether you had children or not. Those with children got priority during the Summer, so as to take advantage of the long summer school break. Single people got priority at Christmas, especially if they had a long way to travel home. In between times it was basically a first come, first served system.

My view was that this was a reasonably fair system and ensured that single people weren't stuck on base, away from family at Christmas time. Families were together so it wasn't quite as necessary for them to have time off.

For people with children to always get priority breeds discontent and makes people without feel somehow lower than others. The only other way is a strict "first come, first served" system. Even then you get the people who have "priorities" and feel they should have what they want.

Andy  old 



Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
User currently offlineSunshine79 From UK - England, joined Jan 2006, 1759 posts, RR: 31
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 877 times:

Wherever I have worked, holidays have always been on a strictly first come first served basis, and think it should be. An ex-boyfriend of mine used to take holidays during school holiday times, which I think was wrong as it is stopping parents being off with their children. Besides, the last thing you want is loads of kids harrassing you when you are in town.


Formerly alcregular, Why drive when you can fly?
User currently offlineSaintsman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 2065 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 856 times:

I think that holidays are an entitlement and not a right. They have to be approved iaw the company's needs and so they can dictate who has what.


Besides, you can't call it Christmas anymore, you have to call it the 'Festive' holiday......  Yeah sure


User currently offlineSkidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 839 times:

Quoting Saintsman (Reply 4):
you have to call it the 'Festive' holiday

Don't YOU start on that PC tripe!! Big grin It's bloody Christmas, whether you belieive in the old guy or not!  santahat 

Andy  old 



Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
User currently offlineWillo From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 832 times:

Quoting Saintsman (Reply 4):
I think that holidays are an entitlement and not a right. They have to be approved iaw the company's needs and so they can dictate who has what.

Well what do you know, an early Christmas message from Mr Scrooge!


User currently offlineLnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1606 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 825 times:

Quoting Cxsjr (Thread starter):
They have been told that people with children will be given first priority as "it's a family time" (sorry but I thought parents, sisters, nieces and nephews were part of my family too?). Next in line will be those with long distances to travel over the holiday period.

If you honestly are going to raise a concern over this, you are a very petty person..

Christmas is about Religious celebration, and children and family. Not EVERYONE can have time off at Christmas, or the world would grind to a halt.

I myself am single, but we routinely have family over for Christmas, and guess what??? I always let other people with CHILDREN take the time off, and enjoy the special moments with their children since one day, I'm likely going to need the same *RESPECT* from them once their children are a little older, OR if I decide to travel to see family they may need to make a concession one year.

There's some things in life that aren't fair, and there's some things that MOST of society understands is a normal practice would wide. To make a legal argument out of something that's so petty would be quite disconcerting, given the fact that the reason you have time off at that time of year is to celebrate the happy times.

1011yyz



Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
User currently offlineCharger From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 273 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 805 times:

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 7):
If you honestly are going to raise a concern over this, you are a very petty person..

I don't think this is petty. He has a perfectly ligitimate gripe. Why should he have to give up seeing his family because he doesn't have kids.

In my company all vacation time and holiday time is worked strictly by seniority, and thats the way it should be.

Now if someone with out kids feels like being nice and covering a shift for someone who does have kids, thats a different story. But to be told your last on the list because you don't is just BS.


User currently offlineCxsjr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 795 times:

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 7):
If you honestly are going to raise a concern over this, you are a very petty person..

Listen, frankly I don't give a sh1t about Christmas and, as it happens, my other half won't be taking any weekdays off other than the 25th/26th as I'm working on both 24th and 26th so it's "dinner for two" this year.

That aside, and what I was driving at is, these days, when you apply for a job (in this country at least), certain questions such as age (yes, age!), number of children, marital status, ethnicity, sexuality etc etc are banned from job applications under equal opportunities. So WTF should a company then be allowed to take into account whether you have children when deciding who has what holidays.

I'm quite happy to let people with children have their holidays in the summer or at Christmas but let us come to agreement over that without having it dictated to us!

We have no intention of raising any concern specifically over this but for the record, this is part of a bigger picture in a company which initiates a disciplinary procedures if you're late by even a minute more than once in a month (even if it's down to public transport!), sends you home if you're ill then doesn't pay you while you're off then gives you a back to work interview when you return to see why you were off, hasn't had a fire drill in 5 years, has cables trailing everywhere, staff get spoken to like sh1t ..... you get my picture?

And before you say try getting a job elsewhere, he will be after Christmas!


User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 787 times:

Christmas is important to me, and I let that value spill over in to my business. I give all my employees the day of either side of Christmas, and of course Christmas day as well. In the case where one of those days falls on a weekend (like Christmas Eve this year), I give them the Friday before off. And then whoever wants to take extra time in addition to that, as long as they've got the vacation time in their balance, I don't refuse. As long as I've got all the troops reporting back by the second week of January, I won't stop people from spending time with their families, friends, on their own, whomever at Christmas.

User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 784 times:

Quoting Cxsjr (Thread starter):
Any thoughts

Do what I do and put in your request for Christmas time off on January 1st. Works like a charm every time I do it and I always have the last two weeks of the year off.

First come, first served and if someone gives you a ration of shit when you make that request on the first of the year then demand they show you a written policy about the families with kids thing.

Quoting Saintsman (Reply 4):
Besides, you can't call it Christmas anymore, you have to call it the 'Festive' holiday

F*** that noise! I'll call it Christmas and be jealous of the folks getting 8 nights of Hannukuh but I won't even touch the Hallmark Cards made-up holiday of Kwanzaaand I don't think the Muslims have anything scheduled around that time. PC has run amuck and calling it "winter break" from school or "winter festival" is a big joke that I just don't find funny.

Quoting Cxsjr (Reply 9):
I'm quite happy to let people with children have their holidays in the summer or at Christmas but let us come to agreement over that without having it dictated to us!.....And before you say try getting a job elsewhere, he will be after Christmas!

There you have it. If you don't like the policies then find another job.

Quoting Cxsjr (Thread starter):
Short of adopting a child

Too bad you aren't a celebrity since adopting some little poor black kid from Africa seems to be the IT thing to do.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Age Discrimination posted Fri Oct 13 2006 01:24:28 by WhyWhyZed
Partial Rant: Discrimination Due To Age posted Thu Apr 20 2006 04:48:53 by Thepilot
Discrimination Alive And Well At Fifa! posted Tue Mar 21 2006 20:39:45 by Derico
Continuation Of NW Gay Discrimination Thread posted Tue Feb 14 2006 04:45:13 by D L X
FL Denny's Being Sued Over Alleged Discrimination posted Fri Apr 29 2005 09:06:16 by Garnetpalmetto
"Unintentional Bias" And Age Discrimination posted Wed Mar 30 2005 21:51:14 by MaverickM11
Age Discrimination Is Wrong posted Thu Mar 17 2005 00:57:06 by Iowaman
Should Discrimination Be Part Of Free Speech? posted Sun Feb 27 2005 07:22:42 by Allstarflyer
Reverse Discrimination? posted Sat Jun 12 2004 05:13:27 by Flyingbronco05
India Accuses US Of "Unjust Discrimination" posted Sun May 11 2003 17:34:24 by B747-437B