Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
A Longer-Term Winning Strategy For The Democrats  
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 10 months 12 hours ago) and read 1385 times:

In viewing articles such as the following, one might suspect that the elephant in the room that the respective leadership in both political parties desires to ignore is the topic of illegal immigration.

(Excerpt)

Quote:
The Bush-Senate plan legislates the corporate sector’s desire for an unending supply of cheap Mexican labor to depress American wages and worsen American working conditions in perpetuity by creating an ethnically homogeneous permanent underclass. It is class warfare by the super-rich against the rest of America.

This betrayal of traditional immigration policy will be borne on the backs of the nation’s most vulnerable: America’s working class, working poor (African Americans chiefly), seasonal workers, recent immigrants, young people entering the workforce.

Please see: http://www.thejewishweek.com/top/editletcontent.php3?artid=5467

While those who support illegal immigration might number in the tens of millions, it seems to me that those who oppose it number in the greater tens of millions. After all, who, whether on the left or right, really wants to admit supporting illegality, or the reduction of the American economy to Third World status?

On the issue of illegal immigration, many Republicans oppose the Bush Administration's plans for de facto amnesty.

It seems to me that the canny Democratic operative could simply field candidates who vow to take a position to the right of the Bush Administration on the issue of illegal aliens. By virtue of the fact that the interests of labor and non-illegal alien minorities would be served, traditional Democratic interests groups would be pleased, and, in addition, Republicans disgusted with the Bush Administration's immigration policies would also sign on.

Voila, a Democratic landslide in 2008.

But the Democratic leadership seems blind to this possibility.

At present.

[Edited 2006-11-02 16:15:02]

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3591 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 11 hours ago) and read 1367 times:

The Democrat leadership won't crack down on illegal immigration because of their reliance on the illegal immigrant vote in urban areas.  Smile

Politicians are the most short sighted of animals.


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 11 hours ago) and read 1363 times:

I certainly see your point, DLPMMM. But perhaps even the benefits from the incidence of illegal alien voting (which is doubly illegal, as we will all agree, since only citizens can legally vote) would pale by comparison with the tens of millions of Republican votes that would be obtained if Democrats made it a point to cater to the anti-illegal alien vote.

After all, who are the illegals going to vote for? Republicans? The Republican Party, while all too corporatist, is not so corporatist that illegals would really stand to benefit from voting for it, besides which mainstream Republicans probably would not stand for signing up illegals to vote. The Republican Party, with its anti-social program stance, is for several reasons not an attractive option for illegals.

If both the Democrats and truly conservative Republicans stood for cracking down on illegals, illegals would have no place to go. Except, maybe, home, to their respective countries all over the world.

[Edited 2006-11-02 16:24:06]

User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3591 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 11 hours ago) and read 1356 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 2):
After all, who are the illegals going to vote for? Republicans? The Republican Party, while all too corporatist, is not so corporatist that illegals would really stand to benefit from voting for it,

Actually, more and more of new immigrants from south of the border are voting republican, as the conservative social values and lower taxes are a significant draw. Most immigrants are coming for money, not social programs.

This is a mistake that the democrats have not figured out. The illegal immigrant populations are no longer concentrating in the large urban centers in the USA.


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 11 hours ago) and read 1354 times:

Interesting perspective, DLPMMM. Much to think about.

User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3591 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 9 hours ago) and read 1335 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 4):
Interesting perspective, DLPMMM. Much to think about.

It's nice to have a political discussion without partisan B.S.

Thank you.


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 9 hours ago) and read 1332 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 5):
It's nice to have a political discussion without partisan B.S.

Thank you.

It is, indeed, most agreeable! And I am proud to uphold the standard.  Smile


User currently offlineRAPCON From Puerto Rico, joined Jul 2006, 671 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 6 hours ago) and read 1320 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
Voila, a Democratic landslide in 2008.

Well, if they also change their views on free-for-all abortions, quit taxing everyone to death, stop hating Jesus, and move to deport all Arab Muslims, then I guarantee you an election victory that would rival Reagan's 1984 campagin.



MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
User currently offlineArtieFufkin From United States of America, joined May 2006, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 6 hours ago) and read 1317 times:

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 7):
Well, if they also change their views on free-for-all abortions, quit taxing everyone to death, stop hating Jesus, and move to deport all Arab Muslims, then I guarantee you an election victory that would rival Reagan's 1984 campagin.

I got news for you Mr. Republican base. Most Americans are not for more limits on abortion rights, they are not for more religious nuts telling our schools and consenting adults what to do. And they certainly are not for treating Muslims with disrespect.

So you can take your agenda back to the backwoods and alleys were it came from. Oh and you can kiss one party rule goodbye in about a week.


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 6 hours ago) and read 1317 times:

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 7):
Well, if they also change their views on free-for-all abortions, quit taxing everyone to death, stop hating Jesus, and move to deport all Arab Muslims, then I guarantee you an election victory that would rival Reagan's 1984 campagin.

That may be.

I continue to think that the Republicans (except maybe the House Republicans) are giving us the shaft on illegals, though. I hope the GOP comes to its senses and stops being the party of corporations that need illegal labor, to the extent that it is.

[Edited 2006-11-02 21:27:02]

User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 47
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 6 hours ago) and read 1296 times:

I hope the GOP comes to its senses and stops being the party of corporations that need illegal labor, to the extent that it is.

If anyone is to blame for that mess, it's your every day Joe Schmo consumers who want and demand more and more for less and less......

you know...the ones who expect Nordstroms service (and quality) at Wal-Mart prices.

WE are the ones that created that demand. The GOP is simply fulfilling it.


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 5 hours ago) and read 1284 times:

[Double post -- kindly disregard.]

[Edited 2006-11-02 23:16:21]

User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 4 hours ago) and read 1282 times:

Quoting Matt D (Reply 10):
If anyone is to blame for that mess, it's your every day Joe Schmo consumers who want and demand more and more for less and less......

you know...the ones who expect Nordstroms service (and quality) at Wal-Mart prices.

I am a technological optimist. I think that in the absence of lax enforcement of our immigration laws, we would be able to automate our industries, in the same way that Japan has done, except even better, so that Americans could expect Neiman-Marcus service -- at Big Lots prices.

America in the optimistic view of the early 1960's was the land not only of opportunity, but of the future. The future was as big as the skies of Montana, and there were few limits to what we could do.

We had, in Tom Wolfe's words, "the right stuff".

But history showed us that our weaknesses could be exploited, and we fought amongst ourselves, as we do today. The weak are set against the strong, and the strong are told to keep their share, rather than to invest for posterity. Love becomes sex, just as animosity becomes hate, and the world is spun slowly upside down so that our enemies abroad can seize us where we are vulnerable.

I think that the tragedy of the last half-century is that America was made weaker than it could be. Rather than strengthening the city of the hill, where the great Ronald Reagan in the 1980's told us we could be again, we spent precious years examining our past, giving money away only to be wasted, helping those who abroad who hated us grow stronger and ever more dangerous.

The tragedy of America of the last half of the 20th Century is that of the aimless, lonely giant, eager to seek the approval of others. One need only see how some of those from other countries treat us today to see how broad was the trap.

We should seek what strengthens us all, not what weakens us to others. We should find strength from our diversity, not dilute it with dissension. We should find greatness in the best of the past, and not seek castles built on air spewing from the mouths of those who "have a plan".

As usual, we are condemned to blunder our way nevertheless to greatness. But it is a greatness less than that we could achieve, and obtained at greater cost, to ourselves, individually, and to our national soul.

[Edited 2006-11-02 23:27:22]

User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 3 hours ago) and read 1258 times:

I have a winning strategy for the Democrats, at least in Presidential Elections:
Win your home states.
Gore failed to carry Tennessee in 2000. Had he done so, Florida would have been non-issue as Gore would not have needed those votes to secure the 270 needed.
Edwards also failed to carry North Carolina in 2004 for John Kerry. Bush won the Electoral Vote with 286 votes, 16 more. North Carolina has 15. Though this state alone would not have been enough to turn the election, had North Carolina and one other state that Bush won gone "blue", the election would have been turned in favor of Kerry.


User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 1 hour ago) and read 1243 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 1):
The Democrat leadership won't crack down on illegal immigration because of their reliance on the illegal immigrant vote in urban areas.

Nice quote, but back it up with facts. Isn't happening here in Arizona the apparent capital of illegal imigrants entering the country, and from what I read it's isn't happening in California, or New Mexico either.


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1229 times:

Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
Nice quote, but back it up with facts. Isn't happening here in Arizona the apparent capital of illegal imigrants entering the country, and from what I read it's isn't happening in California, or New Mexico either.

So, are people like New Mexico's Governor Bill Richardson to the left or to the right of President Bush on illegal immigration?


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3591 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1226 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 15):
So, are people like New Mexico's Governor Bill Richardson to the left or to the right of President Bush on illegal immigration?

Thank you for making my point. We may not agree on most issues, but there is respect.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
Nice quote, but back it up with facts. Isn't happening here in Arizona the apparent capital of illegal imigrants entering the country, and from what I read it's isn't happening in California, or New Mexico either.

The fact is that politicians on both sides of the issue have been too politically chicken to stem the tide. Most of the left are afraid of losing the latino and illegal vote, and most of the right are afraid of losing their lawncare rates.

Most of the politicians are afraid of stopping the flow, which is why nothing has been done.

Have you seen the Democrat Pols in Arizona, California, and New Mexico pushing hard to close their border with Mexico?

The fact that nothing is happening is proof of my point.


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1219 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 16):
Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
Nice quote, but back it up with facts. Isn't happening here in Arizona the apparent capital of illegal imigrants entering the country, and from what I read it's isn't happening in California, or New Mexico either.

The fact is that politicians on both sides of the issue have been too politically chicken to stem the tide. Most of the left are afraid of losing the latino and illegal vote, and most of the right are afraid of losing their lawncare rates.

Most of the politicians are afraid of stopping the flow, which is why nothing has been done.

Have you seen the Democrat Pols in Arizona, California, and New Mexico pushing hard to close their border with Mexico?

The fact that nothing is happening is proof of my point.

Absolutely correct. The democrats don't want to stem the tide of potential democratic voters, and the republicans don't want to cut off the supply of cheap labor. In the meantime, education and social services are being pushed past the limit of their capacity, and the failure of our leadership to push policies that reward assimilation have resulted in a flood of people that come to the US not to become Americans, but to get jobs so that they can send money back home.

You want to come to the US? I'm all for it. But do it legally, become a citizen, learn english, and immerse yourself in our national experience. Leave the _____ flag at home, please.


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1217 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 16):
Thank you for making my point. We may not agree on most issues, but there is respect.

I'm glad we agree, and indeed, it is important to discuss matter rationally and civilly.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
What Lieberman's Defeat Means For The Democrats posted Fri Aug 11 2006 16:37:21 by RJpieces
One For The A.net Youngins' posted Tue Nov 14 2006 03:59:22 by BCAInfoSys
Chuckle For The Day . . .for The Guys! posted Mon Nov 13 2006 04:08:54 by Vaporlock
Who Said No Nat. Champ. For The Irish? posted Sun Nov 12 2006 09:55:44 by ORDRyan28
Let's Bash The Democrats & Call It Headline News posted Wed Nov 8 2006 03:25:51 by SATX
Visiting NYC For The First Time--Suggestions posted Tue Nov 7 2006 03:52:16 by Lincoln
A Question For The Anti-Bush Crowd: Re: Privacy posted Mon Nov 6 2006 00:25:44 by Matt D
A Rather Strange Endorsement Of The Democrats posted Fri Nov 3 2006 13:07:50 by AerospaceFan
The Race For The White House Has Begun! posted Tue Oct 31 2006 00:42:15 by Falcon84
A Question For The Hackers... posted Fri Oct 27 2006 20:18:21 by Bushpilot
What Lieberman's Defeat Means For The Democrats posted Fri Aug 11 2006 16:37:21 by RJpieces
A Longer Delay For The Large Hadron Collider posted Mon Dec 8 2008 04:57:55 by MadameConcorde
Gays: What Have The Democrats Done For You Lately? posted Tue May 8 2007 19:09:28 by ConcordeBoy
Advice For The Canadian Rockies posted Mon Apr 7 2014 21:23:51 by mdsh00
650 Jobs, For The US, Not China. posted Thu Feb 6 2014 19:43:38 by WarRI1
Current Gen Classic Cars For The Year 2033? posted Mon Oct 21 2013 06:29:25 by cptkrell
Self Gloss: Leaving For The Navy. posted Sun Mar 17 2013 22:32:31 by rutley21
A Bunch Of Parsley For The Freedom Of Speech posted Thu Feb 28 2013 08:40:30 by TS-IOR
Coppola's Original Cast List For The Godfather posted Tue Jan 15 2013 13:02:09 by varigb707
Question For The Ship Experts... posted Thu Dec 27 2012 04:53:34 by Darksnowynight