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Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct  
User currently offlineMirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7444 posts, RR: 62
Posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3440 times:
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Yep, free speech and the Constitution. Gotta love it.

Now you KNOW those kids were not looking at the bus driver but were looking at the president and the motorcade. So the excuse of behaving inappropriately in front of hte kids is BS.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/World/2006/11/03/2219517-sun.html


Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12254 posts, RR: 35
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3430 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

I fail to see how it has anything to do with freedom of speech. He did an appropriate gesture while working. When you're at work, you have to leave your political views at home. Had he done the same when not working, nobody could care less, not even Bush:

"The congressman hadn't seen it, but the president turned to him and said, 'That one's not a fan,"' said Reichert spokesman Kimberly Cadena.

I'll give Bush credit for a humorous statement  Smile



911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3412 times:

Any proof, Mirrode, that Bush was the one who demanded the firing?

What do we know about the driving record of this bus driver. Obviously, if they are looking at giving the finger to the President actually driving the bus with kids in it wasn't first on their mind was it. Maybe that was a pattern with this bus driver.

Free Speech guarantee is that the GOVERNMENT can not impinge on speech. Private companies are under no such restriction.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Technically, Congress is the only branch mentioned. Although we all agree that the Judicial and the Executive branch are under the same restriction.

Try to THINK before you pop off Mirrodie.


User currently offlineMattRB From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1624 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3399 times:

Quoting Mirrodie (Thread starter):
Yep, free speech and the Constitution. Gotta love it.

And yet, coupled with the title of this thead, your post suggests that you don't love it enough to read and comprehend it.

Bus driver was fired for making a rude gesture while driving a bus in the course of his employment.

He wants to give the President the finger, he should've done it on his own time.

Free speech has absolutely nothing to do with it.



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3340 times:

Quoting Mirrodie (Thread starter):
Yep, free speech and the Constitution. Gotta love it.

BTW Mirrodie, is there any difference between the bus company firing this guy for breaking thier rules and you as a moderator banning someone from the forums for breaking the rules?

Seems like your concept of free speech needs a bit of fine tuning.


User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3333 times:

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 1):
He did an appropriate gesture while working.

Ouch! I know what you were trying to say, maybe a suspension would have served the same effect..Not like one sheriff's department I saw having re-elect sheriff xxxx bumper stickers on them.


User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3309 times:

The fact that you're allowed to spew this nonsense proves that freedom of speech is in no way impeded in the US.

Had you been located in a country where there is no freedom of speech (like North Korea or China) you'd either have been arrested to prevent you from making such statements (thoughtcrime) or have been indoctrinated from birth to never even think of making such statements.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3296 times:

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 4):
s there any difference between the bus company firing this guy for breaking thier rules and you as a moderator banning someone from the forums for breaking the rules?

 rotfl 


User currently offlineThetuna From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 140 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3281 times:

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 4):
BTW Mirrodie, is there any difference between the bus company firing this guy for breaking thier rules and you as a moderator banning someone from the forums for breaking the rules?

Free speech does not exist here. I do not mean that in a bad way.



He just ate the big one! Hog!...get away from that thing!! Just get away from it!
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3266 times:

I guess I'd get fired too if I made an 'inappropriate' gesture if I were working a traffic detail with PotUS in the mix. And rightfully so. There's no room for that in a Professional organization.

What I do on my time reflects on me, what I do on company time reflects on the entire company.

This isn't a Freedom of Speech issue, or a lack thereof . . . it's a "Case of the Dumbass" issue.

Thread title is incorrect. Ought to be edited. Or the thread deleted as being wholly inaccurate bullshit.


User currently offlineGuitrThree From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2054 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3248 times:

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 4):
BTW Mirrodie, is there any difference between the bus company firing this guy for breaking thier rules and you as a moderator banning someone from the forums for breaking the rules?

Seems like your concept of free speech needs a bit of fine tuning.

Oh where, oh where has Mirrodie gone?

I guess anytime from now on, if he tries to delete one of my threads or replies to a thread, I'll just send him his own quotes.



As Seen On FlightRadar24! Radar ==> F-KBNA5
User currently offlineStrasserB From Singapore, joined Nov 2005, 1541 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3246 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 10):
Or the thread deleted as being wholly inaccurate bullshit.

Here it's where you can get the accurate version of this stuff:



Plain biological stuff ... good smoke.
 banghead 



Still, even in the most arid desert is an airport somewhere ...
User currently offlineMelpax From Australia, joined Apr 2005, 1632 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3234 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 10):
I guess I'd get fired too if I made an 'inappropriate' gesture if I were working a traffic detail with PotUS in the mix. And rightfully so. There's no room for that in a Professional organization.

As a Public Servant, albeit in Australia, I'd get canned as well. If John Howard or a senior Cabinet Minister visited our office & a similar thing happened, there'd be hell to pay. Whenever an election is called, we're always reminded that we are 'a-political' and that we should be seen as being impartial when dealing with the public, but once we're out of the office & on our own time, that's another matter...........

[Edited 2006-11-04 15:02:13]


Essendon - Whatever it takes......
User currently offlineMirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7444 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3206 times:
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Ah, c'mon, I was gonna let the thread go a whole week.

I love the responses. Typical, too typical.

Not once did I mention Bush or his administration. Not once. All of you assumed it was an Anti-bush, anti american rant.

Hook, line, sinker.

I enjoyed the childish responses.

Carry on with the sophomoric bashing!

[Edited 2006-11-04 17:40:04]


Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12254 posts, RR: 35
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3183 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting AirCop (Reply 5):
Ouch! I know what you were trying to say

Ehm....inappropriate gesture Big grin



911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineAvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2472 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3179 times:

Sorry, Mirrodie, but I can't see a school bus driver using the finger or any sort of perceived "obscene" gesture while carting a load of kids as appropriate under any circumstances. It's less a problem she's anti-Bush than that she used a gesture parents would not approve of from a school employee, although she should also mute her pollitical opinion in frint of the children. Call me square but I don't see this as a "free speech" issue.

User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5037 posts, RR: 44
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3174 times:

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 13):
Ah, c'mon, I was gonna let the thread go a whole week.

I love the responses. Typical, too typical.

Not once did I mention Bush or his administration. Not once. All of you assumed it was an Anti-bush, anti american rant.

Hook, line, sinker.

I enjoyed the childish responses.

Carry on with the sophomoric bashing!

Wow, that's just gotta be the saddest attempt at wiggling your ass out of getting the door slammed into your face I've seen for a long time...

BTW, IF this was indeed meant to 'trick' the rest of us into believing it was anti-Bush and into slamming you for it, doesn't that, by definition, make it flamebait, and thus in violation of the rules you are supposed to uphold?


User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3168 times:

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 13):
Not once did I mention Bush or his administration.



Quoting Mirrodie (Thread starter):
the president and the motorcade

Gee Mirrodie. It seems you did mention the president.

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 13):
All of you assumed it was an Anti-bush, anti american rant.

I never assumed that.

I did assume it was a rant of someone completely ignorant of the Constitution and the Second Amendment. I assumed it was the rant of someone ignorant of his own power as a moderator to restrict speech in a private setting by criticising the rights of other people to discipline violators of their own private rules. Which since you ARE a moderator adds hypocrite to ignorant to your resume.

Talk about childish...


User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3163 times:

I think it was wrong to boast about it at work, but hey this was a once-in-a-lifetime chance, so why not take it?  Big grin

And c'mon guys, are you sure you wouldn't feel the same way if it was Clinton who got the finger? Sometimes I think we get too one-sided on this sort of thing. None of the presidents during my lifetime have been all that great and most if not all probably deserved the finger at least once in a while.

Let's try to agree on a few things...

1. All presidents deserve the bird now and then, sometimes two at once
2. Taking liberties at work can sometimes get you fired (rightly or wrongly)
3. Getting fired does not, in itself, mean that free speech is dead
4. Firing someone for giving the finger is a pretty pussy thing to do
5. Irrespective of this specific event, there does appear to be some pressure on average Americans to be a bit more patriotic and a bit less openly hostile toward the administration than during the Clinton years.



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3149 times:

Quoting AirCop (Reply 5):
I know what you were trying to say, maybe a suspension would have served the same effect

He may have been on shaky ground with his employer for other reasons. He may have been on probation for past problems. This may have been the last straw in a series of inappropriate behavior.

He may have been a new employee in the midst of the typical new-hire probation period during which employers can fire for (literally) no reason.

We don't know the whole story.

Mark


User currently offlineStrasserB From Singapore, joined Nov 2005, 1541 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3151 times:

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 14):
Ehm....inappropriate gesture

Agreed, but would it be appropriate in this bus?:



 biggrin 



Still, even in the most arid desert is an airport somewhere ...
User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12254 posts, RR: 35
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3136 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting StrasserB (Reply 20):
Agreed, but would it be appropriate in this bus?:

Anything is appropriate in that one  Smile



911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineMirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7444 posts, RR: 62
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3109 times:
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Quoting Scorpio (Reply 16):
meant to 'trick' the rest of us

Nah I wouldn't call it a trick either, more an observation of what to expect. No different than any other post here, you type something and get a reaction. Pretty simple.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 17):
It seems you did mention the president.

Ah, yes, I mentioned the president. However, I would have thought that you had the acumen to realize that I did not mention him in any light positive or negative. But thank you for your astute observation.  

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 17):
Which since you ARE a moderator adds hypocrite to ignorant to your resume.

Talk about childish...

  Nah, not really. I can't say I ban free speech as much as I will ban users for flaming and abusing others. So what, because I'm a mod, you imply that I should post any differently than anyone else? Please. Hypocrit, ignorant? Boohoo, sticks and stone. No rules broken. Bottom line is your assumptions are wrong but say what you want. But if you have a problem with me, take it off the boards.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 19):
We don't know the whole story.

True, and that is always a fact with the media.

[Edited 2006-11-04 21:15:34]


Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3101 times:

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 22):
I can't say I ban free speech as much as I will ban users for flaming and abusing others.

Isn't that what the bus company did to the driver?

The finger is, after all, the original flame.

You enforce the rules. They enforced the rules. You were critical of the bus company for enforcing their rules, claiming the bus driver right to free speech. Yet, you would enforce up to banning someone for breaking Airliners.net rules. Why are those you ban not entitled to the very protection you would have granted the bus driver?

Or does the target make all the difference to you?

The fact that you didn't see that Free Speech protection only applies to the Government's ability to restrict speech and not a private institution's ability to restrict it, when you yourself are engaged in just such policing, makes you either a hypocite or, ignorant.


User currently offlineGuitrThree From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2054 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3080 times:

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 13):
I love the responses. Typical, too typical.

Not once did I mention Bush or his administration. Not once. All of you assumed it was an Anti-bush, anti american rant.

Hook, line, sinker.

I enjoyed the childish responses.

Did you go to the John Kerry school of how to get your ass out of a big bucket of Sh*t?

Please. Don't, for one minute, make us think you posted this thread just to see the responses.

Childish? Look in the mirror. That 5th grader is you.



As Seen On FlightRadar24! Radar ==> F-KBNA5
25 Mirrodie : First we were talking Bush, now Kerry? Unreal.
26 GuitrThree : No, actually, we are talking about someone who doesn't have the balls to admit he was wrong. You are free to elaborate on who exactly that is.
27 Vikkyvik : Sorry Mirrodie, but how do you know that a kid or two didn't see the bus driver give Bush the finger? 'Twas inappropriate, regardless of to whom he wa
28 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Incorrect. Not ONCE did I mention President Bush . . . I said PotUS (There have been 43 of them by th by). But YOU did. Furthermore, and not once did
29 Mirrodie : Brilliant! Title off the mark, maybe I'll give you that....fact remains, usual suspects, expected comments... quite stale
30 GuitrThree : The start of the collapse... Remember... Tuesday, John Kerry says... "Let me make this crystal clear, as clear as I can make it, I apologize to no on
31 SCCutler : Cannot speak for the "guys," but for me, I would absolutely, positively feel equally offended if President Clinton was gestured-at in such a way. Whi
32 Jwenting : First, not second. The second guarantees citizens' rights to own and carry weapons to defend themselves. Mirodie voted for Kerry before he voted agai
33 Mirrodie : excellent! love it!
34 Post contains images B777-700 : Remember... Stay the course...Stay the course...Stay the course... I never said say the course... ------------------------------------------ Remember
35 GuitrThree : My point? My point is simply that this "moderator," someone who is empowered to tell us when to shut up, comes here and starts a thread that does not
36 Post contains links ArtieFufkin : Please if you see any Americans flipping the President off report them to their employers or nearest GOP office. http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/79
37 B777-700 : I never took it that way. I would be honored to be thought of in the same regard as a brave, war tested veteran like Mr. Kerry. That's something the
38 UALPHLCS : I apologize that was a stupid error on my part. Right. Artie because as we established in post number two of this thread the Party and the Government
39 Mirrodie : Wow, nothing in the thread starter says that, those are your assumptions. Plain and simple. You erroneously assumed that. My points are simple. Throw
40 Dougloid : It's a clear case of "Do as I say and not as I do."
41 Post contains links GuitrThree : Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 39): My points are simple. Your POINTS were, originally, that free speech and the constitution are going away... care to see t
42 Mirrodie : You have got to be kidding! LOL There is your truth. Read that opening post again. No anti-Bush, anti-Union, Anti-anything up there. Please, continue
43 Wukka : This is exactly why moderators should have a second "regular" account when they post potential pot-stirring B.S. That said, you type something that br
44 Post contains images SATX : You mean like this...
45 AerospaceFan : Precisely. When we do our jobs, we give up a number of things. One of them could very well be making obscene gestures while on the job, whether or no
46 UALPHLCS : That's a HUGE assumption on your part Mirrodie. It's just as easy to say He probably would have been fired, because his inappropriate finger gesture
47 Post contains images Mirrodie : any thread here is potentially pot stirring, as we just saw. not the case and if it were, no doubt that hte head moderators would have been emailed b
48 UALPHLCS : Care to point out an attack? Someone as hypocritical as you has no buisness policing this forum.
49 Mirrodie : unfortunately, this has become tit for tat personal messages so there goes the thread. PM me
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