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Is Hillary 2nd President Clinton?  
User currently offline9V From China, joined Aug 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2395 times:

Friends of the New York senator say she’s “99 per cent sure” she will stand for the 2008 election as the world’s most powerful leader.

Since I know absolutely nothing about how the American political voting system works I just wondered what all you guys on the other side of the pond thought. Does she stand a real chance? Is it likely? Would you like to see a woman president for a change?

 Confused

67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5684 posts, RR: 32
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2389 times:

It would be fantastic to see a woman president of the United States. Here we've had two great ones, Mary Robinson, and the current incumbent Mary McAleese. Mary Robinson gave the office a shot in arm, and I reckon Hillary Clinton would be enormously popular around the world, just the way her husband was.

A woman POTUS would be a great thing to see.


User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2383 times:

Surely it would be unconstitutional. She's already served two terms in office.  Smile

User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2370 times:

Quoting 9V (Thread starter):
Since I know absolutely nothing about how the American political voting system works I just wondered what all you guys on the other side of the pond thought. Does she stand a real chance? Is it likely? Would you like to see a woman president for a change?

At this point in time, I think she has the nomination locked up, and will win unless the republicans get wise and nominate a centrist who can beat her.

I don't care if a president is male or female. I just want a competent leader.

Hillary will be a disaster, IMO. She is smarter than Bill, but far more arrogant. Despite her carefully crafted current portrayal as a centrist, which will get her elected, she is a reliable lefty at heart. During her "first" two terms (see below), her acolytes were the most difficult to deal with by far. A typical Bill appointee was an even handed pragmatist. Hillary appointees were wild eyed true liberal believers who couldn't be told anything, because they already knew it all.

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 2):
Surely it would be unconstitutional. She's already served two terms in office.

 rotfl 


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2371 times:

She's a pretty formidable character. But there are 2 problems that I see.

1) She's very polarizing.I saw a poll recently where something like 47% of the population would not vote for her, no way, no how. John McCain and Rudy Guliani both scored only about 30% on the same question.

2) She has a history of flip-flopping on issues all over the place, depending on her audience. She's pro-choice one day, pro-life the next. Personally, I don't trust someone who won't stand by their principles, come hell or high water.


User currently offline9V From China, joined Aug 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2366 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 4):
I saw a poll recently where something like 47% of the population would not vote for her

Well, I seem to remember this guy being very unpopular at one point but I see he got back in!



User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2355 times:

Quoting 9V (Reply 5):
I seem to remember this guy being very unpopular at one point but I see he got back in!

Uhhh...did you see his competition? It's no surprise.

And that's where the Republicans are going to have to come up trumps. They need someone extraordinary to run in 2008 to have a hope of beating Hilary, and frankly I don't see anyone who could.


User currently offlineRJdxer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2345 times:

The far left of her party has abandoned her since she issued tepid support for the war. She can run, but she will either lose in the primaries where you have to satisfy the extreme members of your party or she will have to retract a lot of the things she has already said and will look like Mr. Flipflop himself. Either way if she makes it past the primaries she will then again have to move to the center to stand a chance of winning and by then the GOP nominee would have all the ammo needed to riddle her with her change of positions in the debates.

But one thing is for sure, we wouldn't have to worry about her having an affair while in office, who would touch that? About the only one uglier in her family is her daughter.

[Edited 2006-11-09 19:29:17]

User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2332 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 3):
Hillary will be a disaster, IMO. She is smarter than Bill, but far more arrogant. Despite her carefully crafted current portrayal as a centrist, which will get her elected, she is a reliable lefty at heart. During her "first" two terms (see below), her acolytes were the most difficult to deal with by far. A typical Bill appointee was an even handed pragmatist. Hillary appointees were wild eyed true liberal believers who couldn't be told anything, because they already knew it all.

You are an archtypical right-winger. To me, Hillary was and is a person of the left-centre and HER appointees were moderate left-centre liberals, while the ones of her husband were boring right-centre folks.
-


User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3853 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2327 times:

"I seem to remember this guy being very unpopular at one point but I see he got back in!"

Yep, he morphed into a Democrat. If you can't beat 'em...join 'em.





No, this in not Arnold but Hillary.



Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlineBushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2313 times:

I would like to see a female President. But I dont think Hillary will be it. As was said before, she is much to polarizing. I am a left centrist. I wont vote for her. She has to many skeletons in the closet. I see her has riding someone else's coattails(like the current PotUS) into office and I despise that. Also the whole carpetbagger issue still does bother me. I dont like her methods at all.
If she wins the Democratic primary it will be another 4 years for the GOP holding 1600 Penn. Ave. She is a character that is not really that popular with women.
I want a female President. I think a woman can do just as good a job as a man, just not her. Plus, we dont need any more time with Slick Willy as the First Man.


User currently offlineEasternSon From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 668 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2307 times:

Coming from someone who is a Democrat, an unashamed defender of Bill Clinton and his Presidency, and someone who is constantly being labeled as a "liberal," no, I cannot give her my vote.

She was given eight years to work on healthcare and got next to nowhere with it, when it was one of the few responsibilities she was given. She underestimated the challenges and duffed it when it could have been done.

Sorry, I'll have to back McCain or Obama or somebody else.



"The only people for me are the mad ones...." Jack Kerouac
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2307 times:

Quoting EasternSon (Reply 11):
She was given eight years to work on healthcare and got next to nowhere with it, when it was one of the few responsibilities she was given. She underestimated the challenges and duffed it when it could have been done.

.-
a simple and easy question : did she have the parliamentary majorities in boht houses of the congress required to push through socially progressive modern legislation ?
-


User currently offlineEasternSon From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 668 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2299 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 12):
did she have the parliamentary majorities in boht houses

I'm not entirely sure that she did, maybe someone else can give you a more definite answer. But, Congress in both of President Clinton's terms worked very well with the White House, allowing him to pass a great deal of legislation.



"The only people for me are the mad ones...." Jack Kerouac
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2291 times:

Clinton-Obama in '08!!!! What a fantastic ticket that would be!


An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2289 times:

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 2):
Surely it would be unconstitutional. She's already served two terms in office

 rotfl 

That was excellent.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 3):
At this point in time, I think she has the nomination locked up, and will win unless the republicans get wise and nominate a centrist who can beat her.

"At this point in time" doesn't mean squat. We'll know more in about a year, maybe less. We've had people come out of nowhere before and become the front runner. Lots of time to go.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 7):
The far left of her party has abandoned her since she issued tepid support for the war.

That may be the best thing for her. I even heard Limbaugh (gasp!) say that anyone running in '08 had better be more toward the center, and I agree with him (gasp!) on that one.

Quoting EasternSon (Reply 11):
She was given eight years to work on healthcare and got next to nowhere with it, when it was one of the few responsibilities she was given

The problem was-and Bill Clinton learned from this-that she shouldn't have been given the responsibility in the first place. She was First Lady, not a government official or presidential appointee.

And fair or not, that will be something that dogs her in any run to the White House.


User currently offline9V From China, joined Aug 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2289 times:

Quoting EasternSon (Reply 11):

It's interesting that someone who is a Democrat still won't vote for her.  Smile

I guess here in the UK there are many people who would vote for anyone that was Labour (I guess the same as Democrat) rather than elect a Conservative (Republican) regardless of personality but simply because they would not want a Conservative government. I guess the US is different.  Confused


User currently offlineRJdxer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2289 times:

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 14):
Clinton-Obama in '08!!!! What a fantastic ticket that would be!

Every bit as good as Mondale and Ferraro in 1984.


User currently offlineBushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2278 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 12):
a simple and easy question : did she have the parliamentary majorities in boht houses of the congress required to push through socially progressive modern legislation ?

No she didnt, well at least not for the final 6 years of the Clinton era. I would say part of her failure on healthcare was that the GOP more or less decided not to work with her. But her plan was way to expensive, and her approach and personality is what doesnt do it for me.

As a side note, A male with the same personality traits and characteristics would be considered a go-getter, prompt, aggressive etc. Generally positive things to say. If it is a female, she is a pushy bitch. I am guilty of often thinking this way myself, and am certainly not proud of the fact.

I think a female President would be a great thing for this country. Just not this pushy bitch.


User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2274 times:

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 17):
Every bit as good as Mondale and Ferraro in 1984

Except that Clinton/Obama are much more dynamic, perhaps much smarter, and are not running against an incumbent Reagan.... so you're right... not only every bit as good... but also much better.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineEasternSon From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 668 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2269 times:

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 18):
I would say part of her failure on healthcare was that the GOP more or less decided not to work with her. But her plan was way to expensive, and her approach and personality is what doesnt do it for me.

I think that was, and still is, one of her biggest obstacles. People who don't like her REALLY don't like her. People don't like her style and see her as arrogant and stubborn.

I also don't like the fact that she tries to push herself off as a New Yorker when everyone knows she's a carpet bagger. It's disingenuous.



"The only people for me are the mad ones...." Jack Kerouac
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2262 times:

Quoting EasternSon (Reply 20):
I also don't like the fact that she tries to push herself off as a New Yorker when everyone knows she's a carpet bagger. It's disingenuous.

Right....because we all know that in this country, just like in China, we cannot move to a different state for a job... or for whatever reason we like.

Are you a New Yorker? I've lived here for 5 years.... less than Hillary... and I consider myself a New Yorker. But that's irrelevant... the only relevant fact is she won 67% of the vote in New York. New Yorkers want her representing the state of New York... regardless of your opinion.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineBushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2250 times:

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 21):

No we can move, and if New Yorkers want to elect her that is fine, what Im saying is that if she runs for President that will be one major thing holding her back. She isnt a New Yorker, she is DC elitist. She moved to the first state she thought she could elected in. Her moving to NY wasnt about serving the good people of NY. It was about shoring up her own personal power in DC.


User currently offlineRJdxer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2247 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
That may be the best thing for her

Unfortunately not, to get into the title fight you have to win the preliminaries and you can't do that unless you satisfy the far left of the democratic wing and that turns around to bite you in the main election.

BTW, dems win in Ohio, dems win Congress. You ready to have the one two punch applied to your paycheck?

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 19):
Except that Clinton/Obama are much more dynamic, perhaps much smarter, and are not running against an incumbent Reagan....

Worse, they will be running with Bill Clinton's baggage to include that nightmare national healthcare plan she came up with that would have nationalized 1/7th of the economy. She is Hugo Chavez's dream girl.


User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2240 times:

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 22):
She isnt a New Yorker, she is DC elitist.

Your theory would be correct...except that she's originally from Chicago and spent several years in Arkansas before Bill got elected to the White House. I think the fact they moved AWAY from the DC area after his presidency shows just the opposite of your theory. And picking Westchester County as a residence is something many people aspire to do... it's NICE!

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 23):
Worse, they will be running with Bill Clinton's baggage to include that nightmare national healthcare plan she came up with that would have nationalized 1/7th of the economy.

Bill Clinton's "baggage" didn't seem to be an issue in this election... quite the opposite... he was all over the media campaigning for folks. And no one...certainly not the current administration... has come up with anything better regarding healthcare, and its costs continue to skyrocket. Seems to me if designing a national healthcare plan were so easy, it would have been done by now... but it isn't, and the Republicans certainly can't say they tried. She at least TRIED. Some folks... actually a lot of folks... would say they would rather have 1/7th of the economy nationalized if it means access to healthcare... than no access at all.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
25 EasternSon : Yeah, what he said! Seriously though, TWFirst, it's more about the fact that she tries to make believe she's been there all along. She goes to Yankee
26 RJdxer : Running for Senator is much different than running for President. He was? The only time I saw him this election cycle is when he blew a gasket on Fox
27 Post contains images TWFirst : Perhaps.... however.... she's worked her ASS off for New York... and you might say that it's really for herself... but it doesn't change the effect.
28 Checkraiser : Very well put. To answer the question at hand - I don't think she'll make it through the primary. But if she does, women would turn out in droves. If
29 Post contains images TWFirst : We're already WAYYYYY past being a nation with a federal government that is very limited in its scope and size.... just compare the size and scope of
30 RJdxer : Yes, but nationalizing 1/7th of the nations economy and taking away a persons freedom to choose the doctor and type of care they will recieve is the
31 Halls120 : Did you work in the Clinton Administration? I did, for one year. So while you might not like the conclusions I reach, on this issue at least they are
32 Post contains images Halcyon : Personally, that woman is one of the few women that you can actually castrate. Other than that, no, she would not be president. Ask people what they t
33 TWFirst : HA! OK... I'll go to the public hospital if you come with me, bleeding, and say you don't have any insurance, and we time how long it is until you're
34 Dtwclipper : I can't either. I am a true liberal Dem, work for candidates, and give to campaigns, but I can't give my vote to her. I don't like her, and it is a d
35 DLPMMM : That is your belief, that does not make it a right, and it does not mean that everyone else must believe the same as you. I personally do not think t
36 Post contains images Piercey : Yes I would, but Hillary is not the one I want. Yeah, after Clinton is assassinated
37 TWFirst : It is not just my belief... millions of other folks believe the same thing... but you are correct... you do not have to believe the same thing as the
38 RJdxer : And there you go, solved your problem and did not need to involve the government. That's called taking personal responsibility for your own life. Now
39 DLPMMM : Not a convincing argument. Source please? I believe this is called projection by psycologists. Yes I have insurance, no it is not supplied by my empl
40 Cfalk : Why did it have to be "socially progressive" - a euphamism for income redistribution/welfare statism? That was why it didn't pass. There are health c
41 TWFirst : No, it's called I was lucky that I was able to.... most working poor can't borrow $2000. So I assume you believe that most of the developing world is
42 TWFirst : Simple... the source is: Canada, the EU, etc..... HAVE NATIONAL HEALTHCARE PLANS AND HAVE FOR DECADES. Are you tracking now? Do you need diagrams for
43 Cfalk : I don't. I'm a conservative in the traditional fiscal and constitutional mold, not an evangelist. Yes it can. Like I told you, Switzerland did it, an
44 RJdxer : But you did do something which is more than a lot of people have been taught to do, they just figure the government will bail them out. It's that kin
45 J_Hallgren : Having her as First Bitch was enough of a problem! I'd really hate to see her as POTUS...now IF Condie Rice would run, which she won't, then I'd vote
46 Post contains images 11Bravo : WTF?? I thought someone else (ASF?) has already pegged you as a liberal,... and now we hear you're a right-winger. I'm confused. Will you make up you
47 Post contains images Halls120 : it's been the story of my life. Yeas ago I was stationed in Alameda CA, but I lived in Marin County. To my civilian friends, I was their favorite rig
48 TWFirst : I see... so those who weren't blessed with the brainpower and resources that you've evidently had since birth... who work 2 and 3 minimum-wage jobs t
49 ME AVN FAN : As far as I remember, the Clintons had congressional majorities against them for at least 6 out of 8 years. And they only got ahead on platforms appr
50 TWFirst : I am speaking of absolute numbers in comparison to the U.S.... the U.S. has millions of poor and uninsured... Switzerland does not.
51 ME AVN FAN : - rubbish !!!! Switzerland has just 7 / S E V E N million inhabitants !! What counts is the percentage and N O T absolute numbers !!! and the percent
52 TWFirst : My point precisely. You are trying to make an example by scaling up over 40x! And absolute numbers ARE relevant here...it is much easier to deal with
53 Cfalk : Yes, it's not cheap. But the mechanism is in place and working. If the government decided to subsidize health care, they can do that very easily and
54 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : not necessarily. A larger population allows you to make larger purchases which automatically leads to lower prices per article. -- now, as I do NOT h
55 RJdxer : Then you subscribe to the liberal theory that some people are born stupid and you have to look out for them. I don't buy that unless they have some s
56 SW733 : As an American citizen, I personally would have no problems seeing a woman as President...however, I sure hope that woman is not Hillary Clinton. I wi
57 Bushpilot : Yeah and they overcharge the uninsured all the time compared to what they charge insurance companies for the same price. Also if someone were to brea
58 RJdxer : Is more than likely entitled to some form of aid from the government already. Look at Social Security when it began, and look at the program today. O
59 Nitrohelper : From the pictures I've seen, she has a long way to go to work her "ass off" for anything, even the baggy suits don't help! Of course Billy likes fat
60 TWFirst : Again... you completely miss the point... and you also dodged the question. So I'll spell it out for you... if a policy for a healthy, single non-smo
61 RJdxer : Yes and it's why when I had not just one but three minimum wage jobs at once I worked extremely hard to get one good paying job with decent benefits.
62 Aa757first : I personally wouldn't vote for Hilary (in my first ever election). There is a triage algorithm. It doesn't include what health care plan you have. RNs
63 NoUFO : You won't have to. Or maybe in Canada and in Britain, because the system is underfunded, I don't know, but not in other countries.
64 9V : Maybe I could ask this: If you guys are not so hot on Hillary would any of you guys vote for Condoleezza Rice for president? A female black president
65 RJdxer : I'd vote for her in a minute. At least she seems to be interested in actually taking care of the American people as opposed to just garnering more po
66 Halls120 : You must also believe Santa Claus is a real person. When Hillary is elected, Hillarycare will be revised, but it will be presented to Congress in muc
67 AirCop : I thinking a simple approach such as a single payer system would lower the cost of medical care for everyone, why allowing individuals to continue to
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