ZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 6937 posts, RR: 10 Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1702 times:
Italy have really improved. It was only a few years ago in the 99 world cup when I remember the AB's putting 101 points against them. And now just loosing by 7 to the Wallabies. Great effort
DC10Tim From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1405 posts, RR: 16 Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1674 times:
Although I suppose I should be feeling somewhat dismayed at my own team's form, not just recently, but since winning the world cup, the All Blacks win over France today really brought a smile to my face. We've been hearing all this bull all year long about how they are going to comfortably win the world cup and I think a nice dose of reality will do them good. As far as I'm concerned, there's only one team in it. And Dan Carter - what a star!
As for England, get rid of Andy Robinson, the sooner the better. The level of moral in the England camp must be rock bottom and I fear another abysmal 6 nations.
777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 11318 posts, RR: 17 Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1660 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting VHVXB (Reply 1): I thought France would have given the AB's a run for their money. A very dominating performance by the ABs
Actually France had more domination during the game, but when France made one too many mistakes, the ABs made them pay badly.
One thing that is annoying me, is New Zealand hosting the 2011 world cup. Auckland and the NZ government could make NZ loose the right to host it all thanks to their ideas and fighting on where to build a new stadium to meet IRB rules. One place that has heaps of space and can easily be expanded and built in way less time and cost way less then building a new stadium over the harbour in AKL, is Wellingtons Westpac Stadium. The Westpac Stadium could be expanded into the railyards and expand the current carparks also into the railyards. The rail tracks closest to the stadium are rarly used. The Westpac most likly has way more room to expand then NZs other stadiums.
KiwiinOz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2029 posts, RR: 5 Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1657 times:
Quoting 777ER (Reply 6): One thing that is annoying me, is New Zealand hosting the 2011 world cup. Auckland and the NZ government could make NZ loose the right to host it all thanks to their ideas and fighting on where to build a new stadium to meet IRB rules. One place that has heaps of space and can easily be expanded and built in way less time and cost way less then building a new stadium over the harbour in AKL, is Wellingtons Westpac Stadium. The Westpac Stadium could be expanded into the railyards and expand the current carparks also into the railyards. The rail tracks closest to the stadium are rarly used. The Westpac most likly has way more room to expand then NZs other stadiums.
Yeah but then people have to go to Wellington to watch it.
Banco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 55 Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1630 times:
Quoting Gkirk (Reply 11): Well, at least we aren't going down quicker than the Titanic, unlike Engerlund
When you're already on the seabed, it's hard to sink much further.
England are a disaster at the moment. Robinson's got to go. Re-building after all the retirements after the World Cup was acceptable. Getting worse and worse one year out from the next one is not.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
KiwiinOz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2029 posts, RR: 5 Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1625 times:
Quoting Banco (Reply 12): When you're already on the seabed, it's hard to sink much further.
England are a disaster at the moment. Robinson's got to go. Re-building after all the retirements after the World Cup was acceptable. Getting worse and worse one year out from the next one is not.
Face it, it's the case with all English sport. One year the stars and the moon line up by some divine intervention they are able to string together a performance that beats all others. For the other 40-50 years, mediocre or crap.
SpinalTap From New Zealand, joined Mar 2005, 440 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1625 times:
Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 7): Quoting 777ER (Reply 6):
One thing that is annoying me, is New Zealand hosting the 2011 world cup. Auckland and the NZ government could make NZ loose the right to host it all thanks to their ideas and fighting on where to build a new stadium to meet IRB rules. One place that has heaps of space and can easily be expanded and built in way less time and cost way less then building a new stadium over the harbour in AKL, is Wellingtons Westpac Stadium. The Westpac Stadium could be expanded into the railyards and expand the current carparks also into the railyards. The rail tracks closest to the stadium are rarly used. The Westpac most likly has way more room to expand then NZs other stadiums.
Yeah but then people have to go to Wellington to watch it.
Auckland really needs to get it together, be it the bedpan or the upgrade of Eden Park. The Mallard and the Dick don't exactly inspire a great amount of confidence in me that they will. I kind of hope they don't because Jade Stadium is the next alternative if Auckland can't sort it out and considerably cheaper only needing $80 mil to be up to the IRB rules.
Don't know how much it would cost to upgrade Westpac but would seem a waste to rebuild major sections of such a new stadium if thats what it would require?? Has there been anything in the Dom Post?
"I get what they call a stipend, a stipend is like money but its such as small amount they don't really call it money"
Banco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 55 Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1623 times:
Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 13): Face it, it's the case with all English sport. One year the stars and the moon line up by some divine intervention they are able to string together a performance that beats all others. For the other 40-50 years, mediocre or crap.
Hardly. That England side were completely dominant in World rugby for at least two years. They went something like 20 games unbeaten before losing to France in a World Cup warm-up when deliberately putting out a 2nd XV (France had done the same the week before). What was it, 15 consecutive wins over southern hemisphere opposition? It wasn't a fluke, that England side were the best in the world over a long period.
For the period up until around 1988, England were crap because there was no structure in place. From then on they got progressively better. The side now might not ever have the ability to be world-beaters, but they should be every bit as good as Australia or France. And they're not.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
VHVXB From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 5517 posts, RR: 20 Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1617 times:
Quoting Banco (Reply 15): Hardly. That England side were completely dominant in World rugby for at least two years. They went something like 20 games unbeaten before losing to France in a World Cup warm-up when deliberately putting out a 2nd XV (France had done the same the week before). What was it, 15 consecutive wins over southern hemisphere opposition? It wasn't a fluke, that England side were the best in the world over a long period.
Yes and its been downhill ever since they won the world cup
Banco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 55 Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1612 times:
Quoting VHVXB (Reply 16): Yes and its been downhill ever since they won the world cup
Oh, indeed. No argument there.
The thing is, so many of the England team of 2003 retired, that there was always going to be a drop in performance. Equally, one or two key players like Wilkinson have picked up continual injuries, and haven't played for England since. Both those events (the latter is hardly unprecendented) were going to make a dent in England's level of quality.
My expectation was that England would struggle for a year or two, and then start building towards 2007. Whether they ended up with a side good enough to retain the cup was a moot point, but that was what probably most people both in England and outside expected.
Instead, what has happened is that England have got steadily worse. Sure, there have been injuries to key players, but that happens to every team, no excuses there.
The management has been abysmal: Promising players like Mathew Tait (remember the World Cup Sevens) were picked once, at a very early age and then brutally discarded, hardly a way to encourage them. Most sides have a pretty good idea of what their best first XV is (except, perhaps, New Zealand, who have an embarrassment of riches right now), England don't have a clue.
In this latest game, we had players playing out of position, we had an utterly clueless England making basic mistakes, we had Charlie Hodgson (who was having a bad game, certainly) removed on 50 minutes for a 20 year old kid who was then told to go out and rescue the game in his first international. No wonder he threw an intercept pass.
The "structure" England ar eplaying with is chaotic. England scored two fine tries on Saturday through individual brilliance from Sackey and Balshaw - they weren't team tries in any way shape or form.
This collection of England players aren't world beaters. But they are largely a young side and can improve. The problem is that we don't know who are the best players, and we don't know how they best play. How on earth we ended up in this position so close to a World Cup is incredible.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
Spinzels From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 321 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1599 times:
Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 13): Face it, it's the case with all English sport. One year the stars and the moon line up by some divine intervention they are able to string together a performance that beats all others. For the other 40-50 years, mediocre or crap.
Do you mean like the All Blacks in the World Cup? In 1987 the stars aligned and they won...and for the last twenty years they have been mediocre (1991, 1995) or crap (1999, 2003).
777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 11318 posts, RR: 17 Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1572 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 7): Quoting 777ER (Reply 6):
One thing that is annoying me, is New Zealand hosting the 2011 world cup. Auckland and the NZ government could make NZ loose the right to host it all thanks to their ideas and fighting on where to build a new stadium to meet IRB rules. One place that has heaps of space and can easily be expanded and built in way less time and cost way less then building a new stadium over the harbour in AKL, is Wellingtons Westpac Stadium. The Westpac Stadium could be expanded into the railyards and expand the current carparks also into the railyards. The rail tracks closest to the stadium are rarly used. The Westpac most likly has way more room to expand then NZs other stadiums.
Yeah but then people have to go to Wellington to watch it.
And the same can be said for all of New Zealanders who would need to go to Auckland just to watch it. Westpac Stadium has all the public transport needed less then 400 metres away, the railway station less then 300 metres away, Interislander ferrys less then 300 metres away, bluebridge ferry less then 200 metres away, eastbourne ferry less then 300 metres away, intercity bus terminal less then 300 metres away, regional buses less then 400 metres away. Charter buses could park at the 30 odd bus parks at the stadium, at the centreport wharf, which can park around 200 buses in the areas where charter buses park for the cruise ships, intercity bus terminal can hold around 6 buses and is connected to the stadium walkway, trains platforms are connected to the stadium walkways, more buses can park at the regional bus terminal. Cruise ships were used as hotels that were berthed over the road from the stadium. Wellington is currenlty having four 4* star pluc hotels currently being built or about to be built. Wellington regional council is also aiming to have an easier public transport to the airport by 2011, current ideas are a monorail or extending the current train tracks from the railway station to the airport. What other new zealand stadiums has so many public transport options within very easy walking distance?
Quoting SpinalTap (Reply 14): Don't know how much it would cost to upgrade Westpac but would seem a waste to rebuild major sections of such a new stadium if thats what it would require?? Has there been anything in the Dom Post?
There was an article the day after it was announced that AKL would get it. There are plenty of unused rail yards beside the stadium which would make excellent use as car parks and bus parks
ZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 6937 posts, RR: 10 Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1568 times:
Quoting Spinzels (Reply 18): Do you mean like the All Blacks in the World Cup? In 1987 the stars aligned and they won...and for the last twenty years they have been mediocre (1991, 1995) or crap (1999, 2003).
They wer'nt exactly mediocre in 1995, in 1999 pretty much the whole team was mediocre towards the end of the tournament except Lomu. 2003, could not agree more.
Quoting DC10Tim (Reply 5): . As far as I'm concerned, there's only one team in it. And Dan Carter - what a star!
I rekon if Dan Carter was injured, then the AB's would still be a pretty good team. There are alot of others in there in other positions with alot of skill and talent as well.
Banco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 55 Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1559 times:
Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 20): I rekon if Dan Carter was injured, then the AB's would still be a pretty good team.
I agree. Carter is the icing on the cake, not the cake itself. In the modern era I've never seen a New Zealand team with so much depth in it. Whether New Zealand can improve further is the question, because their rivals certainly will in the run-up to the World Cup.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
Spinzels From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 321 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1548 times:
Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 20): Quoting Spinzels (Reply 18):
Do you mean like the All Blacks in the World Cup? In 1987 the stars aligned and they won...and for the last twenty years they have been mediocre (1991, 1995) or crap (1999, 2003).
They wer'nt exactly mediocre in 1995, in 1999 pretty much the whole team was mediocre towards the end of the tournament except Lomu. 2003, could not agree more.
So we agree that in the World Cup the All Blacks are pretty mediocre...as for "crap", that would be too kind a description for Kiwi cricket, football, or in fact any sport besides rugby, right?
Quoting 9VSRH (Reply 21): Geez, the All Blacks have so much depth! It's unbelievable!
It's not unbelievable given that the All Blacks are not really a national side, they exploit the Pacific Island Unions as a cheap and fertile source of rugby talent. (This is a consistent Kiwi trait, just ask Tenzing Norgay).
Go on ye Spurs!
25 KiwiinOz: The accessability is not my point. I mean people have to BE in Wellington to see it
26 VHVXB: hmm well its more like some of the Pacific Islanders go to New Zealand in search of a better career rather than NZRU exploiting and poaching. Clear e
27 KiwiinOz: Oh, don't get me wrong, the All Blacks are chokers when it comes to the world cup, but in terms of the quality of the team, they have been number 1 f
28 Spinzels: Spoken like a true mercantilist (you Kiwis are ruthless!). Take foreign players, developed cheaply, pay a pittance transfer fee and in 36 months they
29 KiwiinOz: I think you'll find that the ethnic/cultural make-up of the All Blacks over the last few uyears is reasonably representative of the the ethnic/cultur
31 VHVXB: games on this weekend Saturday England v South Africa France v New Zealand Italy v Argentina Scotland v Pacific Island Sunday Ireland v Australia (16.
32 KiwiinOz: Boks, (just) NZ by 15 Italy by 5 Scotland by 20 And on Sunday, Wallabies by 5
33 Oli80: So Wales aren't playing huh!? They are putting out a very strong XV against Canada. I'm expecting close to triple figures. I think this will also be
34 VHVXB: hey I got this of an International Rugby site and I didn't see the fixtures for Wales there
35 Oli80: They are actually playing on Friday night, but that is technically the weekend though.
36 Spinzels: Huh? Sorry guys, but you can't be dubbed "otherworldly" and then try to play the expectations game. I would say NZ by 30+. I saw an interview with Pe
37 Derico: I think Argentina wins by 10 or more. For a change against Italy, the Pumas actually are getting to train and strategize as a team, unlike any other t
38 Oli80: Me too! He is a great player and I think his time in France has served him well. I just hope he gets fit soon. Preferably in time for next weekend. Y
39 Banco: It'll certainly be interestig to see if France can turn it around to any degree after last weekend. They got absolutely caned. Yes, but being togethe
40 Pacificjourney: Coming from a brit that's too much. Ask Banco - who has been handed his hat on this subject for believing every fleet street hack he reads - just wha
41 Banco: I've told you before when you raised this. It wasn't me that said it at all; I was involved in the thread, but didn't get involved in the argument yo
42 Pacificjourney: Fair enough - though I swear you quoted the Independant - but back me on this as you know it's true. At worst some current or former AB's may have mov
43 Banco: I think I did link the Independent (or whatever) article in a kind of "Light the blue touchpaper and retire" kind of way. Then someone else (beautiful
44 ZKSUJ: Mark my words, if history has anything to do with it, the AB vs France game is going to be closer than anticipated Only one I can think of is Sivivat
45 Zkpilot: The Caketin would have to be almost completely rebuilt (and its only a few years old to start with). There is hardly any accomodation in Wellington,
46 Pacificjourney: No row, you linked to some half-arse at that paper, I countered by actually showing that most - if not all - that he mentioned were born here and you
47 VHVXB: Jerry Collins Mils Muliana. Both Born in Samoa This is true but do you think the AB's are happy after their previous world cup performance I think no
48 Spinzels: C'mon mate, let's take it up a notch from "shut up", I'm sure were both ruggers here (me a former these days --just too old) and we should show each
49 Spinzels: Actually nine players from four different countries scattered across the Indian and Pacific Oceans. Not a generalisation at all. Wales, Argentina, an
50 Spinzels: Why are you even debating this? Nations should do what they are best at: the Japanese at running complex, multi-venue, logistically-challenging sport
51 Derico: Not to be picky, just for the record, Messi went to Spain at age 14. Oh come on, Wales and Argentina I could let slide, but Ireland? Sure the World C
52 KiwiinOz: I understand the logic in what you're saying, however I guess it's a case of what these tournaments should be about. If we restricted tournaments lik
53 VHVXB: oh come on that was delpleted Wallabies line up and still it proves nothing. It was only one game Then again lets not forget Tony Marsh. A kiwi who u
54 Pacificjourney: I'm pretty well familiar with that site thank you and you are correct about those being foreign born All Blacks. What you failed to mention though is
55 Lazarus31: So you are saying that someone who imigrated here, was raised here and calls NZ home is not a New Zealander? If thats the case, its an insult to them
56 ZKSUJ: Couldn't not agree more. I'm an immigrant NZ citizen myself
57 Lazarus31: i think u know ( and for other peoples info as well) im actually not from NZ. Laz
58 Banco: Naturally! As I say, I don't know enough about the subject to have a debate on it. I do remember being vaguely disappointed you didn't bite more stro
59 Zkpilot: and how much time have they spent living in New Zealand before they made it into the All Blacks? Quite a considerable amount. You have 3 posts in a r
60 ZKSUJ: But raised in NZ, and turns out Sivivatu was to. Rawlinson is the only one which isn't as mentioned above.
61 KiwiinOz: Let's not get too upset. I wouldn't say he's "kiwi-bashing". It seems more like a bit of banter to me.
62 VHVXB: Results for the Yesterdays game Wales 61 T: Thomas 3, Williams, Rees, Peel, Penalty Try, Sweeney, Shanklin G: Hook (7c), Sweeney (1c) Canada 26 T: Ple
64 VHVXB: Some more results England 23 Tries: Phil Vickery, Mark Cueto Conv: Andy Goode 2 Pen: Charlie Hodgson 2, Andy Goode South Africa 21 Akona Ndungane, But
65 Zkpilot: AB's 23 France 11 Not as thrilling as the last match, but at least the French showed a bit more fight and didn't just surrender...
66 Banco: And England finally won a game - albeit against a second string South Africa side. You can see the confidence is absolutely rock bottom, but they did
67 VHVXB: In another game Italy 16 T: Staonjevic G: Bortolussi (1c, 3pg) Argentina 23 T Todeschini, Avramovic G:Godeschini (2c, 3pg) One coach is saved for the
68 Derico: I can't say that game really made me proud of the Pumas, well, they did have 8 line-up changes and were playing away, though it is still not a convinc
69 Zkpilot: I just don't understand why Argentina isn't pushing hard to join the Tri-nations or the 6nations. Sure they would be beaten most of the time in the t
70 ZKSUJ: There was talk about this, but the reason was 'player burnout' or something (If I'm not mistaken). About the AB's game, could have been better (mista
71 VHVXB: ahhh no not really Argentina is not known for beating the Wallabies or not in Australia at least just for some clarification they came 4th in 1999
72 ZK-NBT: Interesting thread, I see certain individuals get all upset at the fact that they think other countries nab players from other countries. Australia ha
75 VHVXB: lol its more than a slump. There needs to be some more wholesale changes in the Wallabies Lineup
76 Zkpilot: Australia vs Argentina played 17 won 12 Lost 4 Drawn 1 A pretty good record for Australia, but still 4 defeats.. All Blacks have not been beaten by t
77 VHVXB: yes but how often do we play them. Not every year like the European teams
78 Banco: Argentina have pushed hard to join the Tri-Nations. It's the three teams already involved who don't want them, which is frankly appalling for world r
79 Cornish: Ah of course it needed a Cornishman to rescue England on Saturday More than ever over the last few years, Argentina have showed they are a top ranked
80 Oli80: I sure do hope so! Yup, sure have. I think one thing that has made a big difference in the last few years is the outstanding youth program they have
81 VHVXB: True. Number 1, 2 and 3 position need to be fixed ASAP and they need to get rid of Nathan Sharpe and give some on else a go. He is just a waste. Othe
82 VHVXB: Matches which are on this weekend Saturday November 25 England v South Africa France v Argentina Italy v Canada Scotland v Australia Wales v New Zeala
83 Zkpilot: my picks: South Africa France (thats a toughie, I think Argentina is good) Canada (if its their full strength team - not sure?) Australia New Zealand
84 Banco: Hmm. I would go: England (now they've got the monkey off their back by winning last week, expect them to turn in a better performance and win more co
85 ZKSUJ: I agree with you mostly. I thing South Africa will come out on top though. Those guys know how to bounce back. (Refer to 3rd test against AB's this y
86 Banco: Were it the South Africa first XV I might agree with you. But there's barely a regular international in the side; what is it 14 of them at home?
87 Zkpilot: Yeah Argentina often perform really well, but I think playing the ABs has done France a world of good. How strong is Canada? When they have their ful
88 ZKSUJ: Fair enough, have'nt seen the team sheet yet. I will have to agree with you then
89 VHVXB: Results So far England 14 - 25 South Africa France 27 - 26 Argentina Scotland 15 - 44 Australia - very happy with the Wallabies performance
91 Zkpilot: Ita 41 Canada 6 England 14 SA 25 Scots 15 Aus 44 France 27 Arg 26 Wales 10 NZ 45 Looks like my predictions were right except for Canada (which I did s
92 Banco: You've got a cheek to complain about that. New Zealand are the world's worst offenders for lying all over the ball, sticking hands in the ruck, lazy
93 Zkpilot: Actually the reason why NZ are so good is that they are so fast and so commited. They get pinged for being offside (often not always) because they ge
94 QFFlyer: I think you will find that this is a myth, repeated by the opposition and press as mind games. The Blacks are no different than other teams pushing t
95 ZKSUJ: I agree with QFFlyer. Yeap the Blacks aern't perfect but you can't tell me that this isn't present in all teams in the world. And we win games becaus
96 SpinalTap: Couldn't agree more, he was well out of his depth. What was with the state of the grounds as well, I thought Millennium stadium had a roof, surely th
97 VHVXB: Tell me about it. It was shocking in the Scotland v Australia game
98 KiwiinOz: It just ain't sport if there isn't a long line of poms to complain about the other sides cheating
99 9V: Looks like Andy Robinson has been asked to resign now and they are looking at Martin Johnson to replace him.
100 TurkishWings: I have no idea about Rugby, don't know any rules or so and I couldn't be less interested when there are so many other sports around
101 Banco: No, it just ain't sport unless some with a chip on their shoulder deliberately misunderstand the point being made and accuse others of whingeing. I w
102 KiwiinOz: Oh come on, look at this: You don't think that sounds like whingeing?
103 Banco: Er...I call out someone whingeing about a referee's decision saying he got caught, stop complaining and I'm whingeing? Riiiiight.
104 Banco: Finally! Andy Robinson is sacked - errrrr, left by "mutual agreement". http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/english/6185090.stm
105 ZKSUJ: Yea dude. Things can only get better for you guys I guess
106 VHVXB: Only better. A likely replacement for the English coaching position is Eddie Jones http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=64834
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