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See, This Is My Beef With The US Government  
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4307 posts, RR: 11
Posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4201 times:

I was reading some wire report about how the US foreign affairs department was predicting that Fidel Castro has 'only months' to live.

Ok, first I'm not pro-Castro and would like nothing more than to see Cuba have elections and open up to the world.

However, is it the business of ANY goverment to predict how long a foreign head of state have to 'live'??

If some other government came out saying G.W. Bush had only 'months' left, it would cause uproar, and deservedly so.

Does the US government ever learn??? Can't they just shut up and let things take place? That's just wrong.


My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4188 times:

I don't get your beef? If Queen Elizabeth were deathly ill, every gov't would want to know. If that gawddamn nut case in North Korea were deathly ill, every gov't would want to know.

Ditto with Uncle Fidel. As the leader of a country, one's death can have a tremendous impact on other countries.

While I don't consider Cuba a big deal, and I believe there will be little impact on any other country when Castro finally takes the dirt nap there are hundreds of thousands of Cuban immigrants in this country that will definitely want to know.

And who knows - maybe the US will pull it's head outta it's ass and lift the sanctions and travel bans to Cuba once ole' Fidel is a memory . . .

It's really no big deal IMO.


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4186 times:

Quoting Derico (Thread starter):
I was reading some wire report about how the US foreign affairs department was predicting that Fidel Castro has 'only months' to live.

You might want to check the validity of your source. This is what Secretary Rice said on November 6, 2006.

Quote:
SECRETARY RICE: Well, clearly a transition is underway in Cuba one way or another. I don't have any information on the health of Fidel Castro. I think we don't know. But a transition is clearly underway and what has been a longstanding dictatorship is obviously going to come to an end sooner or later. I think our role and our goal has to be to insist that the Cuban people will have a real opportunity for a true democracy, that there wouldn't be just the transfer of power to another member of the regime but that the Cuban people will get to do what people throughout the Western Hemisphere are now doing. They'll get to select their leaders. There will be free and fair elections in which they can select their leaders. And that's what we're talking --


User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4307 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4181 times:

Well, from the standpoint of 'if it was a friendly nation's leader', I don't think there would have been such a report. It is true that there is no free press in Cuba, but I still don't see the point such a press release.

Look at it this way: I'm wondering what advantage does it really give? If we just look at it from that calculated viewpoint, I see no benenfit.

So the US gov doesn't like him. Breaking news. It still shows a slight case of bad karma, predicting someone's death, IMHO.



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4172 times:



User currently offlineNeilYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4172 times:

Quoting Derico (Reply 3):
So the US gov doesn't like him. Breaking news. It still shows a slight case of bad karma, predicting someone's death, IMHO.

I'm sure that there are doctors that made the prediction. Nobody gets mad at the doctor who tells them that they have only months to live, this is just the US State Department releasing what I'm sure was determined by doctors.


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4172 times:

Quoting Derico (Reply 3):
Well, from the standpoint of 'if it was a friendly nation's leader', I don't think there would have been such a report. It is true that there is no free press in Cuba, but I still don't see the point such a press release.

Look at it this way: I'm wondering what advantage does it really give? If we just look at it from that calculated viewpoint, I see no benenfit.

So the US gov doesn't like him. Breaking news. It still shows a slight case of bad karma, predicting someone's death, IMHO

You still haven't cited the press release, or otherwise verified the accuracy of the article. Why are you taking it for granted that it is accurate?


User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4307 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4162 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 6):
You still haven't cited the press release, or otherwise verified the accuracy of the article. Why are you taking it for granted that it is accurate?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/12/world/main2174723.shtml

Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 5):
I'm sure that there are doctors that made the prediction. Nobody gets mad at the doctor who tells them that they have only months to live, this is just the US State Department releasing what I'm sure was determined by doctors.

Hehe, for some reason I doubt the Cuban doctors that are I'm sure taking better care of Fidel than any of us will ever have, decided to give any 'scoop' such as this to Washington. Just my hunch!

If that is not the case, and I think we should assume it is, then it is a 'remote control' asessment. And I don't know how could doctors that have never seen x patient, arrive at such conclusions.



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineRichPhitzwell From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4148 times:

I really dont understand our issue with Cuba....

The only things I know are:
Sugar
Missile crises


Why do we, the USA still care about Cuba?


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4139 times:

A person goes in for a "minor" intestinal procedure and requires a "one week" recovery period before going back to work.

Professionally speaking, if four months have past and that person still isn't back to work, it usually means one thing. Cancer. Metastatic cancer. Death.

Wondering how long Fidel has to live isn't an unreasonable concern.

Mark


User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4307 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4130 times:

That's true. I wasn't saying the US government was lying, as I'm pretty sure they are correct. I just think everyone should let things play out whatever way they will.


My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4130 times:

Quoting Derico (Reply 7):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 6):You still haven't cited the press release, or otherwise verified the accuracy of the article. Why are you taking it for granted that it is accurate?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...shtml

In your original post, you said "I was reading some wire report about how the US foreign affairs department was predicting that Fidel Castro has 'only months' to live."

Problem is, that is not what happened. No one speaking officially on behalf of the US government stated the words you are upset about.

Here's the relevant part of the article.

"They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the politically sensitive topic."

So, you are upset because a news article quotes some unnamed sources who are alleged to be US government officials, and are speaking off the record.

I'm sure you can find something more credible to be upset about if you look a bit harder.


User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4307 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4123 times:

"The government believes Fidel Castro's health is deteriorating and that the Cuban dictator is unlikely to live through 2007."

That sound somewhat like to what I was saying. I'm sure other news sources will quote this somewhat the way I quoted it.

I was just pointing out that perhaps that best course is to just stay on the sides, and not give the Cuban regime more reason to claim 'the system must stay', because the US was salivating at Castro's inevitable death.



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4098 times:

Quoting Derico (Reply 12):
"The government believes Fidel Castro's health is deteriorating and that the Cuban dictator is unlikely to live through 2007."

That sound somewhat like to what I was saying. I'm sure other news sources will quote this somewhat the way I quoted it.

I was just pointing out that perhaps that best course is to just stay on the sides, and not give the Cuban regime more reason to claim 'the system must stay', because the US was salivating at Castro's inevitable death.

No one from the US Government was quoted saying what you've posted. That is what CBS news is reporting, based on what some unnamed officials have said, speaking off the record because they haven't been authorized to speak on the subject.

Until someone officially talks about Castro's death, your outrage should be directed at the news media, not the USG.


User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4029 times:

Quoting Derico (Reply 12):
I was just pointing out that perhaps that best course is to just stay on the sides, and not give the Cuban regime more reason to claim 'the system must stay', because the US was salivating at Castro's inevitable death.

With Cuba 90 miles from Florida and the potential exodus that Castro's fall could cause, why don't you think the US government has a huge interest in preparing first responders at all levels of a possible humanitarian emergency?

The US is clearly not on the sidelines with respect to Castro's death.


User currently offlineExpress1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4016 times:

Quoting Derico (Thread starter):

I think your beef needs more seasoning,and umm dont forget the gravy!!!


dave


User currently offlineCheckraiser From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3988 times:

Quoting Express1 (Reply 15):
I think your beef needs more seasoning,and umm dont forget the gravy!!!

Gravy on a prime cut like that???  eyepopping 

It's not British beef, it needs no further seasoning.  Wink


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3978 times:

Quoting Checkraiser (Reply 16):
It's not British beef, it needs no further seasoning.

All those hormones add to the flavour do they?  Wink



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineCheckraiser From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3971 times:

Any American (or Canadian) who has traveled abroad will tell you that foreign beef is inferior.

This subject and the reasons for it probably warrant its own thread,


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3964 times:

Quoting Checkraiser (Reply 18):
Any American (or Canadian) who has traveled abroad will tell you that foreign beef is inferior.

I quite like Canadian beef, haven't had enough of American to form a judgement. But Australian is very good, and I suspect our Argentine friends would have something to say about beef quality as well - theirs is the best in the world.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3928 times:

So as I understand it, your 'beef' with the USG is based on your own superstition that it is somehow bad juju to talk about an obviously imminent death. I'm glad they are talking about the obvious. I'd hate to think Castro would die and the US State Department would say: "Well I never saw that coming.

There are people whose job descriptions include predicting the course of the transfer of power in Cuba after his demise. It is an issue of some importance to the USA and rightly so. Anyone who thinks there will be a free and open election afterwards to select a new leader does not remember how old style Latin military dictatorships a la Castro or, for that matter, Fulgencio Batista function. There are people in power who will wish to stay in power just as there were in Iraq.

And by the way, every Government on earth is already talking about the changing landscape in Washington DC owing to our President becoming a "lame duck" and the high probability of his entire party's losing the 2008 elections. It is not disrespect, it is just reality.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3867 times:

Quoting RichPhitzwell (Reply 8):
I really dont understand our issue with Cuba....

It's pretty easy if you think about it. The 'revolution' did not displace the poor people of Cuba, it displaced the 'elites', and those were the majority of Cubans that moved to Miami expecting to return soon. They left behind houses and businesses in Cuba when the government took them over, and were rightfully angry at the turn of events.

Being part of the more educated and savvy Cubans, they have been able to effectively turn their displeasure into concrete political action. Cubans are the Hispanic group where their majority came from the higher social classes, unlike a lot of immigrants from LatAm that came to the US from the lower social classes. Unfortunately, Hispanics from the lower classes were not well versed in politics.


User currently offlineQueso From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3803 times:

Quoting Derico (Thread starter):
See, This Is My Beef With The US Government
Derico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 2634 posts, RR: 3

Speaking on behalf of my countrymen...



User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4307 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3763 times:

Fine, as long as I don't ever again see a post where Americans take some statement by the 3rd whip agitant-in training of the secretary in the ministery of Musique Concrete of some other country, and run with it as being the 'official belief' on entire nations or continents...

... Then I will swallow the 'Queso style' replies in this thread.

But again, I will be watching!



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3749 times:

Quoting Banco (Reply 19):
and I suspect our Argentine friends would have something to say about beef quality as well - theirs is the best in the world.

Yup, Argentine Beef is the top dog . . . beats Harris Ranch here in the States.

As for the thread starters Beef, it's still a non-starter . . .  yawn 


25 Post contains links and images AsstChiefMark : I like bison. There's a huge bison ranch a couple miles from me, so I can get anytime. http://www.silverbison.com/ Mark[Edited 2006-11-14 05:27:12]
26 CasInterest : It should be in the business of all governements. In democratic countries, officials are elected to look after the welfare of it's citizens. In the U
27 Post contains images RichPhitzwell : I personnaly prefer Gato Tacos
28 MIAMIx707 : Castro has been directly and indirectly responsible for more problems in the Americas and more headaches for the US than you might think. No impact t
29 AndesSMF : I understand that there are no middle and high class in Cuba, unless you are a member of the party elite. I was referring to the people who left Cuba
30 Post contains images MIAMIx707 : well if you want to backpedal from your original statement that's ok.. Anyways, no, Mexico almost voted Lopez Obrador in, the other candidate won by
31 AndesSMF : Lula is nothing like Chavez. Neither are the socialists in Chile. And in Ecuador, things are a mess, but at least we get rid of our garbage, unlike o
32 Wukka : This whole thread is pretty much bullshit. Do any of you remember waiting on the outcome of Ronald Reagan getting a finger up the ass over potential c
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