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A Fully Nuclear Iran  
User currently offlineAllstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1596 times:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...ename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/11/14/iran.nuclear/index.html

Ahmadinejad says they'll be ready to roll with nuclear energy early next year. Israel probably won't put up with that, but they only posted the AP report on JP (with no additional opinions that I could see). But it might give Bush some ammo for keeping troops in Iraq, but maybe it's good timing for Iran if the Democrats don't see him as much of a threat.

-R

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1569 times:

Does any of those Iranian apologists on here fully comprehend what "fully nuclear" means? Do you understand the import of that?

If you don't, you're goingto wake up some day and find out a part of the earth has been wiped out by this lunatic and his band of looney followers.

"Fully nuclear", is unmistakable. There's nothing subtle about that.

How 'bout it, ME AVN FAN? And others? Care to comment?


User currently offlineAllstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1564 times:

Well, maybe    might help stimulate this. Either way, Bush reportedly just mentioned this . . .

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6481800

And it looks like Blair is trying to look tough against the extremist Muslims yet conciliatory towards the US and the EU at the same time . . .

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6144996.stm

And, like found in another link provided, as it is here . . .

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/world/4333508.html

. . . Ahmadinejad gets off with his whiny, poor-little-us song and dance

"Ahmadinejad said Iran would talk to the United States if it 'corrects its behavior' "

I'm surprised Bush hasn't taken more direct action against Iran. If he really wanted to bring peace to Iraq, like mentioned in another current thread by UH60, he'd shut down the borders. And some action against Iran, a show of strength - like in the form of putting foot-to-backside against their nuclear program - would be in order, too.

We'll be talking about this later, too, I'm sure, after Iran gets its nuclear stations online and then, whaddya know, has a nuke or two to go along with.

So, what then? Bush orders airstrikes from Afghanistan? Israel puts Lebanon behind them, puts it together and strikes against Iran? Too much dancing around going on - as evidenced by that article from NPR about the President's remarks. Even Israel seems dumbfounded nowadays on what to do with their neighbors, close and further out.

My guess is, a Democrat-sponsored pullout allows Teheran (and Damascus) to further consolidate power in the region and making Iran's nuke program become more legit, or, worse, Israel doesn't wake up until there's a nuke found.

Take 'em out now. Suffer the international fallout and get it over with.

Edited for grammar.

-R

[Edited 2006-11-15 01:56:18]

User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7407 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1564 times:
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Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 1):
How 'bout it, ME AVN FAN? And others? Care to comment?

It's absolutely no secret that the Iranians want a nuclear weapons, and Ahmadinejad and his band of thugs will stop at nothing to get them, but the sad reality is, that niether we nor anyone else is going to stop them. This guy is Hitler reborn, and if the only hope is that the Israeli's take their facilities out, than I think we're tragically falling short of reality. When the NK's detonated theirs, that was all Tehran needed to justify themselves having one. Mahmoud the monkey is just as nutty and determined to have one himself

Bottom line, is, Iran will detonate a Nuclear weapon inside of 5 years.
I say again, Iran will detonate a Nuclear weapon inside of 5 years



Made from jets!
User currently offlineSpeedbird747BA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1564 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 1):
Does any of those Iranian apologists on here fully comprehend what "fully nuclear" means? Do you understand the import of that?

If you don't, you're goingto wake up some day and find out a part of the earth has been wiped out by this lunatic and his band of looney followers.

"Fully nuclear", is unmistakable. There's nothing subtle about that.

How 'bout it, ME AVN FAN? And others? Care to comment?

Well said!! *applause*

I agree 100%. That gy is a nut, he cant be trusted with nuclear technology. We know that say, sweden is going to lob a few nuclear bombs at Denmark for the hell of it, but this guy has said he wants to wipe israel off the map!!

Come to your senses, pls.

CHeers,
Kyle


User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1543 times:

Did you all miss this gem?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061115/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_nuclear_12

"New traces of plutonium and enriched uranium — potential material for atomic warheads — have been found in a nuclear waste facility in Iran, a revelation that came Tuesday as the Iranian president boasted his country's nuclear fuel program will soon be completed.

The International Atomic Energy Agency report detailing the discovery also faulted Tehran for not cooperating with the U.N. watchdog's attempts to investigate other suspicious aspects of Iran's nuclear program."

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 3):
This guy is Hitler reborn

How long till someone mentions that Bush is Hitler reborn?


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1538 times:

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 5):
How long till someone mentions that Bush is Hitler reborn?

When will ArtieFufkin or Rsmith be back on?


User currently offlineOU812 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1532 times:

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 5):
How long till someone mentions that Bush is Hitler reborn?

The loony left has been saying that for years while{ I'm-ah-dick-ah-head } was building up his nuclear arsenal & threatening Israel's extinction !

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4378948.stm

Iran leader's comments attacked

Mr Ahmadinejad warned Muslim leaders not to recognise Israel
The European Union and Russia have joined condemnation of the Iranian president's public call for Israel to be "wiped off the map".


[Edited 2006-11-15 02:32:53]

User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1525 times:

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 2):
My guess is, a Democrat-sponsored pullout allows Teheran (and Damascus) to further consolidate power in the region and making Iran's nuke program become more legit

Bingo!

It is not just 'insurgents' that we are fighting in Iraq, it has essentially become a proxy war against Iran, with the stakes being very high. But this is not discussed. And any defeat or pullout from Iraq by the US becomes a win for Iran. And victory only encourages the victor to continue their course of action.

Very similar to what occurred prior to WWII. The same powers that dithered and attempted to negotiate out of the mess are doing it again, in the hopes that peace will reign and no one dies. In the end, this results in higher number of deaths, because no one put at stop to this when it was a small problem.


User currently offlineCairo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1518 times:

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 2):
And some action against Iran, a show of strength - like in the form of putting foot-to-backside against their nuclear program - would be in order, too.



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 2):
Take 'em out now. Suffer the international fallout and get it over with.

AFAIK the consensus is that anything like a swift surgical strike is impossible due to the dispersal, duplication and protection of the key facilities.

Iran has 70 million people and something like 40 billion dollars in foreign currency reserves from recent high oil prices. China and Russia aren't willing to do anything too serious to Iran's economy anyway. Their nuclear program is considered sophisticated and well protected.

Relatively speaking Iran is 3 times as big an "enemy" as Iraq ever was. If surgical strikes are ineffective and if Iran can weather any economic storm the only alternatives seem to be a>living with a nuclear Iran, or, b> a full blown D-Day sized invasion.

I seriously doubt if Iran is going to get talked out of their nuclear program, so the alternatives are conflict or living with their nukes.

Is America willing to enact a draft and mount a huge invasion-occupation, or is it willing to live with a nuclear Iran? The choices are perhaps only one or the other.

Cairo

[Edited 2006-11-15 02:48:07]

[Edited 2006-11-15 02:49:07]

User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1512 times:

Quoting Cairo (Reply 9):
Is America willing to enact a draft and mount a huge invasion-occupation, or is it willing to live with a nuclear Iran? I seriously think the choices are only one or the other.

What does the ME think of a nuclear Iran? My understanding, and please correct me if I am wrong, is that the ME does not think very highly of this.


User currently offlineCairo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1502 times:

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 10):
What does the ME think of a nuclear Iran? My understanding, and please correct me if I am wrong, is that the ME does not think very highly of this.

Insofar as it is possible to generalize about the opinion in the ME, there are two conflicting impulses here among most people it seems:

1. the desire to tame Israel and America, and
2. the desire to keep the neighborhood NOT a potential nuclear battleground

Most people here think you can't contain Israel and America without nukes, so the majority I think tacitly support Iran gaining nukes on the basis of: the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Iran is not everyone's favorite country among Middle Easterners, but they do loudly oppose Israel, which everyone loves. You might remember that in the Cold War America approved of (and aided) China's nuclear program as a way to contain the Soviets, even though America had no great love for China. A similar situation is developing here with regard to Israel/America and Iran.

Cairo


User currently offlineAllstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1502 times:

Quoting Cairo (Reply 9):
China and Russia aren't willing to do anything to serious too Iran's economy anyway.

You're probably right there. But Russia has problems of its own, and I'm not sure they would get too much involved.

And not that it's their business directly, but it sounds like Syria is in league (more or less) with Iran, at least in calling out Washington and London.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2453802,00.html

And, it sees like Blair is waffling now, about to ask for Syrian and Iranian help in Iraq.

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2006/s1788906.htm

I think it's time for Blair to go. Dude waffles knowing that he's not going to get help from either Iran or Syria in helping the US/UK in bailing out Iraq - he's just out to save his own bacon as he's shown the door in the UK.

Looks like the US (and, hopefully, Israel) will have to go it alone in taking down the nuke program of Teheran.

-R


User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1497 times:

Quoting Cairo (Reply 11):

Enlightening, thank you.

I think that most countries would not oppose Iran having a nuke, if it were not for the fact that I and others would not necessarily trust their stated intentions. I get the feeling it might be the same in the ME, that as long as Iran threatens only the 'right' targets, its OK. But what would happen if Iran threatens Saudi Arabia?


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1471 times:

Quoting Cairo (Reply 11):
Most people here think you can't contain Israel and America without nukes,

Then most are idiots, Cairo. You cannot contain the U.S. and Israel WITH nukes. All you'll get, in the end, is a Middle Eastern holocaust of Jews and Muslims. Is it worth destroying 6 millions Jews at the price of perhaps 20 million Arabs and Muslims? Or maybe, just maybe, should the Arab and Islamic nations learn to LIVE with Israel.

If you want the old acronym "M.A.D", Cairo, then, with lunatics of the likes that run Iran, and their terrorists allies, you shall have just that.

Think about it.


User currently offlineCairo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1471 times:

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 12):
Looks like the US (and, hopefully, Israel) will have to go it alone in taking down the nuke program of Teheran.

Surgical strikes probably aren't possible. Iran is 3X as big as Iraq in most measurable ways and by the time an invasion could be mounted, Iran may have nuclear weaponry. Are you willing to mount a full scale invasion? With nuclear consequences?

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 13):
But what would happen if Iran threatens Saudi Arabia?

Who knows? I don't think this is at all likely for many complicated reasons, perhaps foremost among them because the KSA is the custodian of sacred Islamic sites.

Iran's main objective is to become the regional superpower and the main thing in its way is Israel/America. The KSA or anyone else locally is of much less concern.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 13):
Enlightening, thank you.

People CAN have calm and reasonable discussions on this board, even when they generally disagree - as long as the talk doesn't turn personal and involve name-calling.

Cairo


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1462 times:

Quoting Cairo (Reply 15):
Iran's main objective is to become the regional superpower and the main thing in its way is Israel/America.

And do you simply think Israel is all Iran wants a crack at, Cairo? They want to swallow up the whole region: Iraq; Saudi Arabia; Jordan; The Emirates. The whole thing. There's probably no love lost between the Persians and the Arabs, and there's certainly no love lost between an Iran run by zealots of Islam and more secular societies of the Arab world.

While many in the region are cheering on Iran to dispel of Israel, they make wake up one morning and find themselves dominated and controlled by Iran.

Maybe a world about Israel here, and think about it: it's often times better to have the enemy inside your tent, pissing out, then having him on the outside pissing in.

If you figure it out, let me know.


User currently offlineCairo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1459 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14):
Most people here think you can't contain Israel and America without nukes,

Then most are idiots, Cairo.

North Korea has nukes and Iran says maybe they will by February or so. I don't see anyone stopping Iran. Do you?

The EU and America will threat and cajole. Russia and China will block any serious sanctions. Israel and maybe America may even do a selective air attack.

Iran has thought of all this and I don't think any of this works to stop the nukes, while an air attack by the US and/or Israel unites the Arab-Muslim world even more against Amierca and Israel.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14):
All you'll get, in the end, is a Middle Eastern holocaust of Jews and Muslims.

A definite possibility. No one wants this, but Iran will attack Israel with nukes if Iran is attacked and their leadership seems quite willing to go down as long as Israel goes down as well.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14):
Is it worth destroying 6 millions Jews at the price of perhaps 20 million Arabs and Muslims?

I'm going to go out on a limb and probably get flamed for it, but here it goes: yes, I think Arabs and Muslims, if a vote was taken today, would be willing to pay that price to get rid of Israel.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14):
Or maybe, just maybe, should the Arab and Islamic nations learn to LIVE with Israel.

I think most people, as far as I can tell, would be OK with Israel existing if the Palestinian situation were solved and occupied territories returned. At that point, the Israelis can build a 50 foot high wall around themselves if they like and then everyone would more or less be happy.

Cairo


User currently offlineCairo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1456 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
And do you simply think Israel is all Iran wants a crack at, Cairo? They want to swallow up the whole region: Iraq; Saudi Arabia; Jordan; The Emirates. The whole thing. There's probably no love lost between the Persians and the Arabs, and there's certainly no love lost between an Iran run by zealots of Islam and more secular societies of the Arab world

This may be right.

One important thing, though. The Iranian people aren't starving for regional conflict, although, like the Arabs and Muslims everywhere, they don't like Israel. My point is that going after Israel would be one thing. Going after the entire region is probably not politically realistic as the Iranian people would oppose it and wars aren't easy to win if your own people aren't behind it.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
While many in the region are cheering on Iran to dispel of Israel, they make wake up one morning and find themselves dominated and controlled by Iran.

I'm not sure they have the ability or size to control the entire Arabian peninsula, Egypt, Turkey, and so on, even with nukes. I think Iran wants to be to the Arab/Muslim world what America was to the western world in the Cold War, and yes a few neighbors may end up controlled by Iran.

What is America going to do about all this? What can it do? What should it do?

Cairo


User currently offlineWaterpolodan From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1649 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1447 times:

Cairo- Thank you, your opinions and regional insight are fascinating to read. I'm majoring in international relations in university and I have to conduct a US foreign policy debate in 2 weeks about ways to deal with the Iran situation, so your thoughts are very helpful.

User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1404 times:

Quoting Cairo (Reply 17):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14):
All you'll get, in the end, is a Middle Eastern holocaust of Jews and Muslims.

A definite possibility. No one wants this,

To the contrary. There are MANY Arabs and Muslims who want this, if it means getting rid of Israel. Even if it destroys most of the ME, many think the price is worth it-which is why nukes in the nands of nuts in Iran is so dangerous.

Quoting Cairo (Reply 17):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14):
Is it worth destroying 6 millions Jews at the price of perhaps 20 million Arabs and Muslims?

I'm going to go out on a limb and probably get flamed for it, but here it goes: yes, I think Arabs and Muslims, if a vote was taken today, would be willing to pay that price to get rid of Israel.

Well, then the price of Arabs and Muslims will triple, if such a thing happens, because Israel will go down, taking the ENTIRE region with them. The butchers bill will be somthing like you've never seen-and it will be the fault of people like you, unable to get over their hatred of Israel, and who are willing to turn a blind eye to those who have perverted and defiled Islam-in your name.


User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1397 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 1):
Does any of those Iranian apologists on here fully comprehend what "fully nuclear" means? Do you understand the import of that?

I cant find any use of the term 'Fully Nuclear' in either of the two articles presented - the phrase is only mentioned in this threads title.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 1):
If you don't, you're goingto wake up some day and find out a part of the earth has been wiped out by this lunatic and his band of looney followers.

Im already living in a world where one or two powerful countries get to decide who stays in power in other countries, who gets to fully enjoy the treaties they sign and who doesnt, who can do something and who cant.

In this case, all Im after is proof of the claims about Irans intentions, evidence supporting the claims made against them - if you want to call me an apologist for requiring evidence prior to condemning a country for carrying out actions allowed under international law, then I dont really care. All I have ever wanted is proof.

Thus far noone has been able to present evidence, and that disturbs me. So come on, now is your chance, convince me, give me the evidence you apparently have.

These new findings of enriched uranium and plutonium are interesting, but after the last 'smoking gun' claim, Im willing to see if the IAEA accepts Irans explainations on the matter before deciding on my personal judgement.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1393 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 21):
These new findings of enriched uranium and plutonium are interesting, but after the last 'smoking gun' claim, Im willing to see if the IAEA accepts Irans explainations on the matter before deciding on my personal judgement.

Please. You'd be willing to delay your personal judgement if Iran launched an attck on Israel, Richard.


User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1385 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 22):
Please. You'd be willing to delay your personal judgement if Iran launched an attck on Israel, Richard.

Dont insult me, you know sod all about my views.

Besides, I could say the same about you and Israel - that country cant do any bad in your eyes, now can it?

I did notice however that you decided to attack me rather than answer my requests for evidence. But then you come from a country where evidence isnt really high on the agenda for major acts of military might. Blow away a country today, worry about the mess some other time.

The reason you dont give any evidence is because you dont have any.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1381 times:

Read what the President of Iran said himself, Richard-he said "fully nuclear", and yet you still fob it off.

That's all I need to know about your views on the subject.


25 RichardPrice : Ok 23 replies in and Im backing out already - this isnt anything more than another 'Bash Iran - Love Israel' fest from our dear Falcon84. Theres going
26 AndesSMF : Yes, there is. Please see my reply #5. Whatever your opinions are, the UN has already reported that Iran is not compliant with oversight requirements
27 Cairo : Because they know they've got the votes lined up, e.g. China and Russia, to keep anything too serious from the UN happening to them. One day fairly s
28 AndesSMF : We got trouble, big trouble.
29 Falcon84 : Nice that you side with a lunatic power like Iran, who has, openly, threatened to destroy Israel. And Iran deserves to be bashed. It's putting up the
30 Allstarflyer : This from the CNN article . . . "Today the Iranian nation possesses the full nuclear fuel cycle and time is completely running in our favor in terms
31 RichardPrice : Oh so refusing to automatically condemn Iran based on your demands is 'siding with a lunatic power'? My stance is quite simple - show us the proof, b
32 Thomson735 : Iran is developing Nuclear Power we all surely know this so Richard u are ok knowing the fact that Iran said that Israel Should be wiped from the map?
33 Post contains images Allstarflyer : What, then, is limiting a nation with nuclear power capability from developing nuclear weapon capability ? Thus, what you see as 2 different situatio
34 RichardPrice : Every person and every leader of a country is entitled to their opinion, its whether they act on it that determines whether they should be acted agai
35 Thomson735 : Ahh ok, well maybe if u lived in Israel you would maybe feel different whith a country that hates your race, possibly possesing Nuclear weapons and th
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