A 27 year old girl coming from a tennis game enters a metro at 21h25. 3 stations later a group of 17 youth (13-17 year old) enters the same coach as well. Excited they break a window then break a door. Then they turn to the woman and grab her racquet. That not being enough they start to slap her several times. Even worse they start molesting her...
Luckily enough a security patrol entered at the next station...
Verdict: 4 principal aggressors, 15 years old, get released and will have to do 30 hours of community service, and for a month they will only be allowed to leave home for school!
I am appalled chocked angry and absolutely hate my own country for not dealing properly with scumbags like that!
Myt332 From United Kingdom (England), joined Sep 2003, 8721 posts, RR: 90 Reply 1, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 912 times:
I never thought Brussels was a nice city to be honest. I thought it was boring in actual fact. I hope to be proved wrong one day. Probably when I'm old no doubt.
Scorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 4644 posts, RR: 51 Reply 2, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 888 times:
What the hell does this have to do with 'Brussels not being a nice city'????????? An entire city sucks now because of a single instance like this? Give me a break man!
Quoting VinnieWinnie (Thread starter): I am appalled chocked angry and absolutely hate my own country for not dealing properly with scumbags like that!
And what exactly do you suggest they do? Put them in prison? Not going to happen, they're minors. Put them in an institution? If this was a first offence, an institution would more than likely make them worse. So what should be done?
AirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 862 times:
Quoting Scorpio (Reply 2): What the hell does this have to do with 'Brussels not being a nice city'????????? An entire city sucks now because of a single instance like this? Give me a break man!
Seems by VinnieWillie standards; London, Rome, Paris, New York and others aren't nice cities because nasty crimes occur there also.
Such things unfortunately happen all over the world. The verdicts against the culprits always give reason for discussion. But to defend the judges, they have to act in accordance with the law and not in accordance with emotions.
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And such an incident has NOTHING to do with any particular city.
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MDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 835 times:
Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 5): that such a thing cannot be tolerated is clear, that however cannot be the basis for an emotions-based lynch-justice procedure.
PlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 7891 posts, RR: 65 Reply 8, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 824 times:
Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 5): So that you are suggesting that such things do NOT happen elsewhere ?
Indeed, I think Brussels is much safer than many UK cities, I have been there many times to visit friends, and have always felt safe (including the public transport late at night) wherever I was. In comparison, just a few days another person was shot and killed here in Birmingham, sadly it seems to happen all the time.
Quoting N229NW (Reply 6): Oh dear, talk about Freudian slips...
Rather a bad one I must say, not been on the wine again have you?
Halls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 801 times:
Quoting VinnieWinnie (Thread starter): Verdict: 4 principal aggressors, 15 years old, get released and will have to do 30 hours of community service, and for a month they will only be allowed to leave home for school!
What an appallingly light sentence.
Quoting Scorpio (Reply 2): What the hell does this have to do with 'Brussels not being a nice city'????????? An entire city sucks now because of a single instance like this? Give me a break man!
Fair comment. The same thing could happen in just about any big city.
Quoting Scorpio (Reply 2): And what exactly do you suggest they do? Put them in prison? Not going to happen, they're minors. Put them in an institution? If this was a first offence, an institution would more than likely make them worse. So what should be done?
30 hours community service is a joke. While I agree that jail for a first offense isn't warranted, some measures have to be taken to convince them that criminal behavior like they have engaged in is unacceptable. Something tangible and long lasting. When can youth in Belgium drive? Maybe suspend their driving privileges for a year once they reach driving age.
ME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13343 posts, RR: 34 Reply 13, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 796 times:
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 11): Verdict: 4 principal aggressors, 15 years old, get released and will have to do 30 hours of community service, and for a month they will only be allowed to leave home for school!
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What an appallingly light sentence.
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oh sure, in Saudi Arabia it would have been 202 whip-lashes !
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Quoting Halls120 (Reply 11): Maybe suspend their driving privileges for a year once they reach driving age.
an interesting idea, but presumably NOT covered by any law, in particular as it is 3 years away from now. It might be different were they age 18 instead of 15
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TurkishWings From Turkey, joined May 2006, 1053 posts, RR: 9 Reply 16, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 709 times:
It is not correct to judge the whole city based on a single event. It happens almost everywhere.
Yet in my personal opinion, BRU is the most uninteresting town I have ever visited. I attended a party there called "La Demence" which was great but apart from that I thought the city was quite dull with very few things to do....
eating ! it is not a very beautiful city with the exception of LaGrandPlace, but has many very very good restaurants. If you on one day have driven from London to Dover, than been on the ferry to Ostend, and then driven from Osten to Brussels and done some spotting at BRU Zaventem, then you appreciate a pleasant place to eat out, with a good meal. And after the meal having a few digestifs.
Vinniewinnie From France, joined Nov 2005, 447 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 709 times:
Quoting Myt332 (Reply 1): I never thought Brussels was a nice city to be honest. I thought it was boring in actual fact.
Not the most interesting definitely. Nice quality of life though in general... Just avoid in general the northern part and you will be fine!
Quoting Scorpio (Reply 2): And what exactly do you suggest they do? Put them in prison? Not going to happen, they're minors. Put them in an institution? If this was a first offence, an institution would more than likely make them worse. So what should be done?
Do you find this to be the right sentence? Goody goody Belgium at it's best putting criminal's rights first instead of the victim! Don't forget damaged the metro... Shouldn't they pay at least for that? + Shouldn't they get behaviour classes and shouldn't they pay some kind of compensation to the victim which I am sure at the moment is still emotionally very shocked?
Quoting AirCop (Reply 4): Seems by VinnieWillie standards; London, Rome, Paris, New York and others aren't nice cities because nasty crimes occur there also.
Went I read this I went totally nuts yeah! First of all because of the crime, but also because of the sentence which to be honest is ridiculous. So my starting post might have been a bit exaggerative yes. Do not deny that this happens everywhere, just had a rant at my home country for once again letting off criminals so lightly!
Na you get horrendous crimes in the UK as well! Just that they get tackled more sensible here I find! Asbos fines are something you would never see in BE cause of poor youth who end up being the victims of society.
Point is imagine your girlfriend, wife or daughter being treated like that. How would you feel? Not saying we should cut their hands just saying that a more proportionate sentence should have been given. There are scumbags everywhere. Low class shit which can sadly not behave and respect others. And you know what it all comes to education... Most of the time parents haven't done their job properly! Therefore if nothing can be done about them... Why not target the parents where it hurts? Money...
Bravo45 From United States, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 15 Reply 19, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 709 times:
While the incident you cite is just as appalling as appalled you are, I think your rage is misdirected. IMO problems like this need to be tackled in the wider society rather than just harsh punishments for the guilty. It has to be at least a two pronged approach. A one pronged aproach if its only harsh punishments might not be the best one.
One another note, I haven't been to Brussels or Belgium but I find the thought of being there interesting and (to say the least) some of the discouraging comments here don't change any of that.
PROSA From United States, joined Oct 2001, 5288 posts, RR: 7 Reply 20, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 709 times:
Quoting Scorpio (Reply 2): And what exactly do you suggest they do? Put them in prison? Not going to happen, they're minors. Put them in an institution? If this was a first offence, an institution would more than likely make them worse. So what should be done?
The original posting is a bit vague when it refers to "molesting," and I can't read the linked newspaper article because it's in French, but if the young woman was sexually assaulted - at least to some extent beyond groping and touching - then yes, the attackers most certainly do deserve some time in custody. It matters not in the least that they're minors or first offenders. Imprisonment is the only appropriate punishment for certain offenses.
Braybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 4269 posts, RR: 43 Reply 24, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 335 times:
This sort of thing can happen in ANY large city. And Brussels is very under-rated: it's a very manageable size, not over-run with tourists the way the larger European cities are, it's not sterile and not expensive, has some great restaurants and bars, and has one of the best clubs in Europe: La Demence! It's a great city for a weekend break.
Vinniewinnie From France, joined Nov 2005, 447 posts, RR: 1 Reply 25, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 321 times:
Quoting Scorpio (Reply 22): It was limited to touching and groping.
So what that doesn't make it right does it?
Point is Brussels is an all-right city. Not marred by violence but not the safe heaven people assume it to be. After all the managing director of stib/mivb (Brussels public transport service provider) got into trouble in a metro station as well a few weeks ago!
I myself consider Brussels as a very empty city. It is full of offices filled by bureaucrats. That makes the city pretty empty since social mix is quit poor. Furthermore all these offices very close to town center make the city pretty soulless! Especially at night since there is no real huge town center. Pubs clubs and restaurant are really scattered around
But got to admit we Belgians have the nicest square in the world. (Grand Place) We genuinely have nice restaurants serving nice food on average.
The UK (from what i have seen in years) in comparison is more lively I think. Cities are packed with pubs and clubs. You can argue that this makes the city quit dangerous at night since booze can sometimes lead to fight. Still though the spirit of fun and enjoyment is more there I would say.
Vincent
26 Scorpio: Oh for pete's sake man, calm down. I never said that made it right, now did I?
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Seems by VinnieWillie standards; London, Rome, Paris, New York and others aren't nice cities because nasty crimes occur there also.
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