Bombstar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (13 years 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1680 times:
Okay, suppose I were to buy 1 acre of land on the moon. And in the future, say NASA lands on the porton of the moon which I (or someone else) owns. Would that person be entitled to any landing fees? Or would any government just fail to recogonize the legitimacy of the owner?
747-600X From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2795 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (13 years 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1670 times:
Sorry guys, so far I don't BUY it. What power do they have to enforce these properties? Sounds like a good way for someone to make money. Let's say I buy 100 acres... okay, and 27 years from now the Feds go up there in a big NASA ship and start occupying, where is the LEGAL support for this?
By the way, I got tired of keeping track of all those Aussie's, so I'm selling the land Down Under, but I can't disclose the actual price online for confidentiality purposes with the existing land owner(s).
"Mental health is reality at all cost." -- M. Scott Peck, 'The Road Less Traveled'
Gdabski From Poland, joined Oct 2001, 423 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (13 years 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1641 times:
From that site:
Contrary to popular belief, ownership by individuals of extraterrestrial properties is not forbidden. The 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty stipulates that no government can own extraterrestrial property, but it neglected to mention individuals or corporations. In 1984, the UN attempted to plug this loophole (which they where very aware of), by introducing the ill-fated Moon Treaty. That treaty forbids the exploitation of extraterrestrial resources (which includes ownership) for anyone, also individuals and corporations. The only problem is, that when it was up for vote, out of 185 UN Member Nations, only six supported it. The vast majority of Member States refused to sign it and did not sign it. It makes sense too. Imagine if we find oil on the Moon for example. Should we prohibit its exploitation for the entire human race by law? Surely not. So, to make a long story short, the loophole still exists today, and for a reason. (If you are in the mood for some heavy legal discussions...a very detailed discussion of this can be read on our Space Law page.)
Therefore, one can become the legal owner of an extraterrestrial body, if you are the first one that claimed it, and that is the Lunar Embassy.
It's a bit like in the old west: Who stakes their claim on a piece of land first, gets the best property. This is modeled on old american law. Such a claim must be registered with your local Governmental Office for claim registries. In regard to Lunar properties, it obviously helps, if this is also done in the USA, as the Americans were the first to walk on the Moon and plant their flag on it (ie it could be argued, that if the Moon ever belonged to anyone, it certainly belongs more to the USA than any other nation).
Well, in 1980, a very bright, young and handsome Mr. Dennis Hope, went to his local US Governmental Office for claim registries, the San Francisco County Seat, and made a claim for the entire lunar surface, as well as the surface of all the other eight planets of our solar system and their moons (except Earth and the sun). Obviously, he was at first taken for a crackpot, until, 3 supervisors, 2 Floors and 5 hours later, the main supervisor accepted, and registered his claim.
Now, even if you get the claim registered, you are definitely not out of the woods yet. You must inform others. For example, at the same time, the Lunar Embassy was obliged to inform the General Assembly of the United Nations, and the Russian Government in writing of the claim and the legal intent to sell extraterrestrial properties. Now we're still not out of the woods. The US government has several years to contest such a claim. They never did. Neither did the United Nations nor the Russian Government. This allowed Mr. Hope to take the next step and copyright his work with the US Copyright registry office. So, with his claim and Copyright Registration Certificate from the US Government in hand, Mr. Hope became what is probably the largest landowner on the planet today. This is the legal basis by which the Lunar Embassy is selling extraterrestrial properties. For all these reasons, the Lunar Embassy has been able to conduct their business without any reproach from the US Government (or any other) since 20 years, and they are aware that the sale of extraterrestrial Property is ongoing. The kindest reaction of the US Government was actually, that two former Presidents became Moon property owners.
1. The moon and its natural resources are the common heritage of mankind, which finds its expression in the provisions of this Agreement and in particular in paragraph 5 of this article.
2. The moon is not subject to national appropriation by any claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means.
3. Neither the surface nor the subsurface of the moon, nor any part thereof or natural resources in place, shall become property of any State, international intergovernmental or non-governmental organization, national organization or non-governmental entity or of any natural person. The placement of personnel, space vehicles, equipment, facilities, stations and installations on or below the surface of the moon, including structures connected with its surface or subsurface, shall not create a right of ownership over the surface or the subsurface of the moon or any areas thereof. The foregoing provisions are without prejudice to the international regime referred to in paragraph 5 of this article.
4. States Parties have the right to exploration and use of the moon without discrimination of any kind, on a basis of equality and in accordance with international law and the terms of this Agreement.
5. States Parties to this Agreement hereby undertake to establish an international regime, including appropriate procedures, to govern the exploitation of the natural resources of the moon as such exploitation is about to become feasible. This provision shall be implemented in accordance with article 18 of this Agreement.
Man these people piss me off, who the hell do they think they are?
Flyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (13 years 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1603 times:
Aside from all the other problems...don't you need to occupy the land before staking claim to it? I believe so, if not, back in the old west (as they refered to), I could've just claimed all unclaimed land, and own a great porition of the western US. What a bunch of...you know what.