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God Vs Science  
User currently offlinePalladium From Indonesia, joined Apr 2005, 270 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3569 times:

Perhaps these are the two greatest debates of all time (God vs Science)
I don't need to explain what is scientific believe and God's believe in here, I assume you all guys understand.... but I want to hear people's opinion in here.

1. Do you believe more in scientific way or in God's way?
2. Please state your main reason.....

(and let's see which one is the most...... )

My answer:

1. God's way
2. Some evidence miracle is happening (the blind can see, etc).
If there is evil, there must be God.
There has to be an Intelligent Designer of this universe. God created this
universe. (there has to be a creator to something)
The Bibble speaks itself.

Score:
people believe in God : 1
people believe in sciense: 0

(please update the score, each time you answer so we know how many people here actually believe in what)

191 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3553 times:
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Quoting Palladium (Thread starter):
1. Do you believe more in scientific way or in God's way?
2. Please state your main reason.....

1. I don't weigh one over the other. In the final analysis they are one in the same.
2. Any technology (Science) sufficiently advanced appears as magic (God) to mans puny brain. Variations in the sample due primarily to the subjects level of education.

Quoting Palladium (Thread starter):
Score:

Nil change



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User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8773 posts, RR: 42
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3553 times:

Score:
people believe in God : 1
people believe in science: 1

BUT: I think believing is for religious things, knowing is for all things science. Science aims to explain how things work, not to explain why they developed as they did. Creationism is nonsense, but Darwin's theory doesn't really answer that eternal question of "Why are we here?"

I'm quite fine with simply "being here" and don't ask myself much why I am, so religion isn't a big issue for me. I believe there is a sort of deity, but I highly doubt it's the engineer-architect-emperor kind of multi-tasking God described in the Bible.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineWrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3534 times:

Quoting Palladium (Thread starter):
1. Do you believe more in scientific way or in God's way?

I fully believe in science, I am an atheist.

The reason ? well, I have grown up in a non-religious family (which no doubt contributes) but also, there are too many questions surrounding religion.

Why did God let the Holocaust happen ?
Why doesn't God heal the wounded now ?
Why hasn't God come down to earth ?
Why do the people in Bible have such 'modern' names, David, Mathew, (sound a bit modern for me).
If he's so great, why do people believe in different gods and religions ?
Why is it that if you don't believe in God, you're already condemned to 'hell'.
If we are all God's children, Why does God let his children run around the earth killing each other ?
Why does God let pedophiles exist ?

It sound silly to me, you commit a sin, and all you have to do it pray to god for forgiveness or go to the priest and confess all, not exactly punishment for doing something as bad a coming a sin.
If we are all born sinners, what's the point of continuously asking for god to forgive us, when he doesn't give a sign that he accepts your forgiveness ?
The list goes on and on....

For me, there are too many questions and not enough answers for religion, and Science has an explanation that to me, sounds half reasonable in terms of evolution and how the earth came about.

Wrightborthers

Score:
people believe in God : 1
people believe in science: 2



Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3528 times:

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 3):
Why do the people in Bible have such 'modern' names, David, Mathew, (sound a bit modern for me).

Erm, that's a silly one. They didn't have modern names, the names have been anglicized from the French/Italian/Latin/Greek corruptions of the original Hebrew names. Matthew was "Mathias", James was "Yacob" or "Yacov", etc etc.


User currently offlineJamesbuk From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 3968 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3529 times:

people believe in God : 1
people believe in science: 3

If god exists, Where is he, Where is heaven, If gods all forgiving then why can you be condemned to hell.

rgds --James--



You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
User currently offlineIamcanadian From Canada, joined May 2001, 734 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3507 times:

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 3):
Why did God let the Holocaust happen ?

Because God created his children on earth with the ability to choose. He gave us free will.

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 3):
Why doesn't God heal the wounded now ?

What makes you think he doesn't? You don't think that God had ANY part in medically and scientifically unexplainable instances of miraculous recoveries from cancer, or ANY disease for that matter?

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 3):
Why hasn't God come down to earth ?

He did, in the form of Jesus. When Jesus ascended into Heaven, he said that the next time he came back would essentially be what we know as "judgement day".

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 3):
Why do the people in Bible have such 'modern' names, David, Mathew, (sound a bit modern for me).

Like JPGH1A mentioned, they were translated from the original Greek/Hebrew texts, they weren't the "actual" names of the people mentioned.

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 3):
If he's so great, why do people believe in different gods and religions ?

Like I said, God gave us the ability to make our own decisions. The basis of Christianity is FAITH. You need to WANT to believe in him. He's not going to force himself on anybody, so people are able to choose in what they believe, in the same way you can choose what show to watch on TV; you have the options, it's up to you which one you pick.

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 3):
Why is it that if you don't believe in God, you're already condemned to 'hell'.

Because man is born with a sinful nature, and with sin, it is impossible to get to heaven. With the Holy Spirit in your life, you accept God's gift of forgiveness and grace, and by following Jesus' ways, we too can join him in heaven.

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 3):
If we are all God's children, Why does God let his children run around the earth killing each other ?

Like I mentioned before, God created his earth and his children with free will.

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 3):
Why does God let pedophiles exist ?

See above.

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 3):
It sound silly to me, you commit a sin, and all you have to do it pray to god for forgiveness or go to the priest and confess all, not exactly punishment for doing something as bad a coming a sin.

The punishment for sin, is ultimately, death (ie. eternal Hell). But this punishment comes on the day of judgement. We are saved from this punishment by having a life free of sin. Obviously, it is human nature to sin, so we cannot avoid this punishment without God's forgiveness.

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 3):
If we are all born sinners, what's the point of continuously asking for god to forgive us, when he doesn't give a sign that he accepts your forgiveness ?

God's "sign" that he "accepts" forgiveness is through the death and resurrection of Jesus. It is through his sacrifice that Jesus took the punishment for ALL of man. There is no need for a little message that pops up in your email the next morning saying "Congratulations, God has granted you forgiveness". God's forgiveness is a PROMISE.
----------------------------------------------------------------

I hope I answered most of the questions you had.

Regards,

Mike



Shut up and calculate.
User currently offlineBezoar From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 807 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3489 times:

In my opinion the very question forces one to choose between the two, and I find that to be rather narrow-minded. It is not necessarily an 'either-or' question.

I believe God created a world that behaves in a way that much of it can be known. I believe He who gave us life also gave us our senses to discover it and a mind by which we can understand and do things that we otherwise could not. Science is simply a tool we can use, and a very great one at that.

However, we must not confuse the creator with the creation. We cannot expect to see God by looking through a telescope or a microscope, or in a chemical reaction, or in a mathematical equation. We can, though, look and see His glorious creation.

Iamcanadian is quite right in saying we are given the gift of free will. It is through our use and abuse of that gift that we can do both great things and horrible things.

Some are quick to say "religion is the root of all evil" and the "cause of more death throughout the history of mankind than anything else." However, is it not through science & technology that we have created weapons of mass destruction? Has it not led to the fouling of our atmosphere and water? Has it not enabled a greater separation between the poor and the rich?

One may certainly lay blame for our horrors on ourselves. If we blame God, we are blaming Him for giving us life, a wonderful mind, and free will.

Of course, if you don't believe in God, then you must give man both credit and blame for what man does.



"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3472 times:

Quoting Palladium (Thread starter):
If there is evil, there must be God.

God is all Powerful.
God is all Good.
Evil exists.

Logically you can only have two out of three of those.


User currently offlineIamcanadian From Canada, joined May 2001, 734 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3468 times:

Quoting Bezoar (Reply 7):
In my opinion the very question forces one to choose between the two, and I find that to be rather narrow-minded. It is not necessarily an 'either-or' question.

 checkmark 

Quoting Bezoar (Reply 7):
I believe He who gave us life also gave us our senses to discover it and a mind by which we can understand and do things that we otherwise could not. Science is simply a tool we can use, and a very great one at that.

 checkmark  checkmark  checkmark 
There are so many people out there that attempt to use scientific evidence to discredit and/or disprove God, but only end up finding overwhelming PROOF of God's existence and wonderous creation. Essentially, everything was put on this earth into our (humans) care and for our enjoyment. It is unfortunate how often we abuse this.



Shut up and calculate.
User currently offlineSpringbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3457 times:

Quoting Palladium (Thread starter):
1. Do you believe more in scientific way or in God's way?
2. Please state your main reason.....

1. Science
2. Reason:

Let's assume, for a moment, that there is a God. We may not know the nature of God, or which religion comes closest to the truth, but we can be sure of one thing:

God has no love for this Earth.

Look at all the cruelty and misery in the world, which God does nothing to stop. Right now, as you are reading this, there are children in various places around the world being raped and tortured.

If God exists, then why is he allowing these things to happen? Look at all the conflicts in the world, Israel-Palestine, Sudan, Iraq, etc etc.

There are some religions which claim that "God's love is a different kind of love", which is supposed to explain and justify what appears to be God's divine indifference. This is total bullshit. If I claim that I love my neighbor, and then set his house on fire and shoot him in the head, anyone can see that my "love" is not love at all.

So you have no loving God watching over you, making sure you get what you need. You don't get what you need in life, you don't get what you want, you don't get what you deserve. You get what you get.

Sorry for the rant...



אני תומך בישראל
User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3458 times:

Why does it always have to be either God OR science?

Just because one believes in God does not necessarily mean one is fundimentalist or does it have follow that all scientists are fundimental empiracists. It might be nice, just once, to talk about God and science without being tied to the same tired stereotypes that amount to little more than a club with which to bash those who disagree with us.

As for me, I rely on the Bible to answer the question why we were created. I'm content to leave the how question to science.

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineBezoar From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 807 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3449 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 8):
Logically you can only have two out of three of those.

The conclusion becomes invalid if one assumes that free will indeed exists. Do we have the ability to choose between good and evil? If God does not allow us such choices, then we have no free will.

You can't eliminate the possibility of a good and all-powerful God based on your 'logic,' unless you believe that free will was not a good move on God's part. That may be worthy of debate.



"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
User currently offlineIlikeyyc From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1373 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3426 times:

As some people have stated, the two are not exclusive of each other. I think that science should give us an appreciation of God's power in his/her creation of the universe and everything in it. I believe in God and I believe in science too.

Creation didn't happen in 6 days, it happened over a period of 4 point something billion years. The story of creation is just that...a story, meant to explain things to people at a time when they thought the world was flat and the earth was the center of the universe.



Fighting Absurdity with Absurdity!
User currently offlineMBMBOS From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2616 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3425 times:

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 11):
Why does it always have to be either God OR science?

Amen to that! Why does we always have to be given two extreme choices? Have you been watching too much Fox News? It's a bogus setup designed to manipulate you into one of two extreme camps.

Science is one of the greatest tools that mankind has ever developed. But it has its limitations, as all tools do.

Religion may have been a great tool for those who lived thousands of years ago. And it is still useful as a metaphor, or mythology, to help us come to terms with our temporal existence.

Both have their place in our world.


User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3422 times:

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 10):
Look at all the cruelty and misery in the world, which God does nothing to stop.

Oh yeah! And science is going to stop it?
Right!
The same science that gave us cattle prods, tasers, and atomic bombs?

Religion has no answers.
Science has no "morals" to restrain mankind.

What is earthman to do?



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3419 times:

True science is based on the scientific method, which I have faith in only because it's been shown to work again and again. In most cases, when a given scientific theory is proven wrong, it's either because the scientific method either wasn't followed properly or too much was assumed from too little data.

Now, what is religion based on? What difference does it make if God exists or not and why should God's existence or nonexistence have any bearing whatsoever on how we live our lives? That's what I don't understand.



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User currently offlineSpringbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3415 times:

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 15):
Oh yeah! And science is going to stop it?
Right!

No I never said science is gonna stop that.

Quote:
The same science that gave us cattle prods, tasers, and atomic bombs?

All of these were invented for a reason, and have their uses. This has nothing to do with religion. I never said science will solve everything, but it is doing a hell of a lot more than what God is right now.



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User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3416 times:

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 15):
What is earthman to do?

Hope for a better world. Make that better world happen. Perhaps that's something all of us can agree on.

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineVikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10352 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3405 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 2):
Science aims to explain how things work, not to explain why they developed as they did.

I think I know what you mean to say, but the way you phrased it is not accurate. To say that science doesn't aim to explain why is absolutely incorrect. There are many scientists and studies that aim to do precisely that. Now, they don't aim to simply explain "why are we here?" because that's far too complicated a question. But science is indeed interested in how and why things develop as they do.

Anyway, looks to me like people stopped keeping score, but add me to the Science team. As for why......well, I'm really just too lazy to type out a whole argument. Besides, I don't feel like I actually need to argue my point of view to anyone. If religion works for you, then awesome.



How can I be an admiral without my cap??!
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3404 times:

"The scientist's condition as a sentinel in the modern world, as onernwho is the first to glimpse the enormous complexity together with thernmarvellous harmony of reality, makes him a privileged witness of thernplausibility of religion, a man capable of showing how the admission ofrntranscendence, far from harming the autonomy and the ends of research,rnrather stimulates it to continually surpass itself in an experience ofrnself-transcendence which reveals the human mystery".
- Pope John Paul II, 7/17/85.

Faith can never conflict with reason

The 'Galileo case' teaches us that different branches of knowledge call for different methods, each of which brings out various aspects of reality
In 1979 Pope John Paul II expressed the wish that the Pontifical Academy of Sciences would conduct an indepthrnstudy of the celebrated and controversial "Galileo case". A Commissionrnof scholars for this purpose was established in 1981 and on Saturdayrnmorning, 31 October they presented their conclusions to the Pope. Arnsummary of these conclusions was given by Cardinal Paul Poupard Receiving them in the Sala Regiarnof the Apostolic Palace, the Holy Father took the occasion to thank thernmembers of the Commission for their work and to speak to the PontificalrnAcademy of Sciences on the distinct but complementary roles that faithrnand science fulfill in human life. Also present were members of thernDiplomatic Corps accredited to the Holy See and highranking officials of the Roman Curia.
The following English translation of the Holy Father's address, which was given in French, appeared in L'Osservatore Romano N. 44 (1264) - 4 November 1992

http://www.its.caltech.edu/~nmcenter/sci-cp/sci-9211.html

"
159rnFaith and science : "Though faith is above reason, there can never bernany real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God whornreveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason onrnthe human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradictrntruth." (Dei Filiusrn4: DS 3017) "Consequently, methodical research in all branches ofrnknowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner andrndoes not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith,rnbecause the things of the world and the things of faith derive from thernsame God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets ofrnnature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite ofrnhimself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are." (GS 36 ' 1)


2293rnBasic scientific research, as well as applied research, is arnsignificant expression of man's dominion over creation. Science andrntechnology are precious resources when placed at the service of man andrnpromote his integral development for the benefit of all. By themselvesrnhowever they cannot disclose the meaning of existence and of humanrnprogress. Science and technology are ordered to man, from whom theyrntake their origin and development; hence they find in the person and inrnhis moral values both evidence of their purpose and awareness of theirrnlimits.
"
From the Catholic Catechism

http://www.its.caltech.edu/~nmcenter/sci-cp/cat-sci.html


User currently offlineTRVYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1375 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3387 times:

I believe in God.
I believe in Science.

Just because science cannot explain God doesnot mean God doesn't exist.
Science itself is evolving continuously and there are many areas that still need to explained by science rather than by just giving statistics or a coincidence. A long way before actually investigating about God.

[Edited 2006-11-20 02:39:43]

User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 19
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3385 times:
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Quoting Palladium (Thread starter):
1. Do you believe more in scientific way or in God's way?

It depends on what the question is, i certainly do not dispute any scientific explanation, be it the Big bang, the expanding universe or any other great scientific questions. Science explains HOW and WHEN things exist and happen, it doesn't explain WHY. If we were to ask the greatest question of all time, why do we and the universe exist? Science would not be able to explain it. This is where religion comes in, there must be a underlying reason why humans exist on planet earth, and why there is such a thing as a universe. The entire universe and the human race cannot be one big coincidence that just happens to exist. For me, there must be a creator, not only because my religion says so, but because i refuse to believe that every human being will NOT be judged for their actions on earth once they die.

Everything happens for a reason, not just randomly, and for every action there must be a reason and consequence.



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineORD2pm From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3368 times:

Quoting Bezoar (Reply 7):
In my opinion the very question forces one to choose between the two, and I find that to be rather narrow-minded. It is not necessarily an 'either-or' question.

thank you for that statement. You seem like a good person.


User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3360 times:

Quoting TRVYYZ (Reply 21):
Just because science cannot explain God doesnot mean God doesn't exist.

What difference does it make if God exists or not anyway? Isn't doing the right thing important even if God never existed? Why must we worry about things we cannot prove or disprove? Religion was designed from the ground up to be unprovable. Why, because if it was easy to refute then it wouldn't be able to last thousands of years.



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25 Post contains images Halcyon : 1-God. I also believe that science is correct many times and also incorrect many times. Science must continually be studied. There is no proof that yo
26 TRVYYZ : It makes a difference. Without God Right and wrong is only relative. Talking about science and God, science mainly deals with non-living events. I wi
27 Tropicalsq744 : You can't prove or disprove the existence of God with absolute certainty though you can say with a good amount of certainty that he doesn't exist. It'
28 Bezoar : What is the standard for measuring or defining good and bad? Exactly! Even the most careful of humanistic thought can't produce any absolute truths o
29 TRVYYZ : What is the scientific explanation for this? I mean why is it so? I have another analogy for God and Science. The Former could be viewed as analog an
30 Post contains links and images Iamcanadian : Who says science can't explain God? There are NUMEROUS pieces of evidence within our material realm that prove God's existence. The following are quo
31 CastleIsland : I have to admit that I have not read the other posts, but I feel compelled to reply to this: I see God as the collective conciousness of those who ha
32 Post contains images Iamcanadian : You know what I've been REALLY wondering... when is AerospaceFan going to show up? Could you elaborate/explain that a little better? I don't think I'm
33 Halcyon : You're welcome, and my bad. Forgot to put quotation marks around that last word. Lucas
34 TRVYYZ : These are not scientific proofs. Some thoughts of scientists or just because a scientist says something does not prove anything. They have to defend
35 SATX : It's relative no matter what. I used to believe in God. Now I don't. My primary views on what is right and what is wrong never changed as a result. I
36 Iamcanadian : Do you get drunk every weekend? Do you have a problem with pre-marital sexual relations? Do you gamble? Most people (ie. non-Christians) do not have
37 Post contains images Iamcanadian : Aha! But I don't believe you mentioned scientific "proofs". You merely stated that (emphasis added) The way I see it, these quotes from respected sci
38 CastleIsland : Well, to me God is completely formless. God is not a he, a she, or an it. The concept of God is that of collective strength that is generated through
39 Flyingbabydoc : Good point. Perhaps God one day might also be something we may be able to explain. If you believe in God, you must believe that there is a system for
40 Post contains images Iamcanadian : Fair enough; I don't believe God is a "person" per se, but I do believe God has "characteristics" of a being. Love, compassion, anger: these are all
41 Flyingbabydoc : It is not quite that easy. Religions do condone and encourage, inasmuch as some of their prelates (popes, imams and so one) "arrange" and interpret t
42 TRVYYZ : I don't know about islam, but I know about Christianity. Have you heard of the Ten Commandements.
43 TACAA320 : Because God give us free will. Most of your question can be answered only with a little effort from yourself. Doing some study. Additional question t
44 TACAA320 : I think that the correct question is why do many people have Biblical names ? Not the opossite.
45 CastleIsland : I certainly wouldn't use the word "merely," as the essence that is God and us is the most powerful thing of all. These emotions are generated through
46 TACAA320 : ...omniscient !
47 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Actually, you are incorrect...science can never explain the question of "why"..it could only explain the question of "how".. Science can't explain wh
48 Post contains images Aloges : Point taken. It is a very deep-rooted "why". If you ask why evolution worked out as it did and answer "through trial and error and survival of the fi
49 SATX : You bet, but I never really thought these things were terribly evil even when I believed in God. I don't understand why polluting your body is wrong
50 777236ER : Why would God go to so much effort to make us believe he doesn't exist?
51 Post contains images Aero145 : Answers: 1: Science. 2: Because, if God would be here, where is he then? Nothing I know of which is impossible for science has happened to me, so why
52 Lehpron : Having the argument to exist is, IMO, proof humans are destined to die out in vain. To me, science is God's method. Anyone that argues them separatel
53 Iamcanadian : God gave us (humans) this earth to enjoy and take care of. The way we turn a blind eye towards the damage we do to it IS a disrespect to the gift we
54 Vikkyvik : Maybe we'll just agree to disagree. To me, science is the quest to understand all of the important questions...Who, What, When, Where, Why, How. You
55 Post contains images JGPH1A : Strong the bald one is in The Force ! I prefer the notion of the universe simply unfolding as it should. It negates the influence of any single contr
56 Post contains images Iamcanadian : 16 your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. -Psalm 139:16 Sounds like wh
57 Post contains links and images Wrighbrothers : Firstly, thank you for taking the time to reply, I see we differ in opinion ? Quoting Iamcanadian (Reply 6): What makes you think he doesn't? The fact
58 JGPH1A : I said the universe unfolds as it should, i.e. in the way most appropriate, not as it was pre-ordained. That would be way too depressing.
59 Kaneporta1 : Haha, good point. The problem is, no one can prove that God exists, but no one can dis-prove it. But using the same sense, I can claim there is a Hol
60 CastleIsland : Well, my conceptualization involves collective power without any overall degree of control. As sentient beings we are capable of exercising some cont
61 Post contains images JGPH1A : Modesty forbids, but one does what one can...
62 CastleIsland : Hell, if you're God, I'm a $2,000 per hour whore.
63 Post contains images JGPH1A : Interesting career choice. Oh, and I think you left off the decimal. Still, $20.00 is still pretty good money. For you.
64 TACAA320 : How can some people be so sure that there is no God? "We believe (I believe) in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all t
65 Kaneporta1 : Because the human brain cannot cope with the vastness of the universe, cannot explain existance, and the easy way to explain this is "God". "We belie
66 JGPH1A : Another guise ! Yay !
67 TACAA320 : I can't disprove that a Holly Cheese did not create the universe[ I don't even have a remote idea to do so ], but the task of science is to prove tha
68 SlamClick : Perhaps a belief in God, the immortal soul and some form of afterlife were necessary aberrations that developed along with our intelligence. Without t
69 CastleIsland : We are coming at this from completely opposite ends of the spectrum, so bear with me. It's clear that you take Bible rather literally, and I do not.
70 Post contains images Vikkyvik : A guy after my own heart with that explanation I think that is a decent way to look at it. However, one must also keep in mind that religions have no
71 Bezoar : Those that conceptualize the universe without God presume that the universe always existed, therefore there is no beginning or end to deal with. The
72 TACAA320 : For a believer that's not a problem. As its seems not to be a problem for you to believe in a "holly cheese" or a "holly cow".
73 NWADC9 : God Reason: Explain how we came to being. Big Bang? How'd that happen? Coincidence? Someone had to create all of this. Explain all those miracles that
74 TACAA320 : Just an unproved theory. And maybe [just maybe] will never proved.
75 Bezoar : Perhaps, but one that is entirely consistent with the Book of Genesis.
76 Post contains links TACAA320 : Perhaps ? "The Big Bang Theory is the dominant scientific theory about the origin of the universe. According to the big bang, the universe was create
77 AirPacific747 : DON'T believe in God. Never have and never will. The bible to me seems like a nice fairy tale, but doesn't make sense at all. Same goes for other reli
78 QXatFAT : I believe in God and in science. Science seems to prove God. I have believed in God sense I was a kid of course with both my parents being Christians.
79 AirPacific747 : As gross as it may be, I find this to be the truth as well.
80 Shinkai : i believe all this is deliberate as they are a test of faith. Example: Mothers exist (thats for sure otherwise you wouldn't) but mother doesn't alway
81 Post contains images Linco22 : Ok, I'm going to add a short reply - as usual. I don't really believe in either to be honest. There is no book of facts toprove either is 100% true! B
82 Post contains links TACAA320 : Not every body. And I can prove that you're wrong. "Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth
83 Post contains images Vikkyvik : Where's the proof I don't have time to read the extremely lengthly document you linked. Can you perhaps cite the relevant passages (if there are any)
84 L410Turbolet : SCIENCE Flawless story book "scientifically" proven? I'd love to see that "science"... What miracles?
85 TACAA320 : "When people die, they are put to koffins(sic)... they'll be eaten by little insects" This is a general statement. Not everybody. During centuries of
86 Post contains images David L : Sorry, but that's not proof of anything, nor does it explain anything. All that says is "this is the way it is - you don't need to bother deciding wh
87 Vikkyvik : Hey buddy, my life is my business. You are not required to understand it. You can only take me at my word that I don't have time to read the entire d
88 JGPH1A : Flawless ? I think I need that owl picture. Please do provide proof, I can't wait too see this !
89 Post contains images Iamcanadian : Is it not your choice to not believe in the first place? It sounds like free will to me... As has been mentioned before, as a Christian, you assume a
90 CastleIsland : It has indeed, and I'm glad we've been so civilised about a topic that is very personal to people. Best to you...
91 Wrighbrothers : Most of my questions can be answered by someone who believes in God, I do not, and therefore the pure sound of the religion story (Jesus was sent dow
92 David L : Can you provide references?
93 TACAA320 : No problem. But you open the door since the moment that you publish part of your life in your profile [and such information can be used against you s
94 Vikkyvik : You obviously didn't understand what I said. Here it is again: If you want to use my life, interests, and activities against me, then go ahead. I rea
95 TACAA320 : Who decide what its "legitimate" or not ? Who is "legitimated" to decide that ? You ? That's exactly what I did from the very beginning. Please re re
96 TACAA320 : Just show me pls where did I say that ?
97 Iamcanadian : Let's put it this way... You walk into your neighbourhood corner store, looking to purchase a bag of potato chips. After choosing your bag of chips,
98 Iamcanadian : Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like Wrighbrothers is more like an Agnostic than an Atheist. In other words, he knows that there is a God, but
99 David L : I didn't say you said it. You provided the extract as proof of something: What does that extract prove?
100 MBMBOS : I don't believe that's the definition of "agnostic." Someone who is noncommittal or claims that he cannot know whether God exists would be agnostic.
101 Post contains images Iamcanadian : Fair enough. I was just trying to think of a term to explain what his position is.
102 TACAA320 : If you are not referring to me, then you are wrongfully quoting me in your post. You must read the whole text to understand that "faith and reason ar
103 Post contains images David L : I was not quoting you. I was telling you what that extract says to me. That's the way written Engish works, I'm afraid.
104 Post contains images Vikkyvik : Then why cite the two paragraphs that you quoted? One would automatically assume that they're somehow related to your point. I think that's what has
105 CastleIsland : But several of the reasons you cited for justifying your lack of belief were examples of bad things that happen to people. That bad things happen is
106 TACAA320 : I'm sorry. I don't threat anybody. Just making an affirmation.
107 TACAA320 : And apparently to you only. Thanks a lot for the clarification.
108 David L : I didn't say there was. Now, back to the "proof" thing: How does any of what you've quoted or linked to prove that not everybody will be eaten by ins
109 Post contains images Wrighbrothers : I'm not worried, because as you right suggest, I don't believe, so I need not fear. I'm just questioning why we are punished, I can question things w
110 Post contains images David L : Au contraire (cheers, Vik ) ... What you posted proves nothing.
111 Iamcanadian : Born of the virgin Mary. Heals those who have faith. For our sins. To reassure his disciples that he will come back, and to spread the Word. Not fore
112 Bezoar : Some might call this person an 'unconverted believer.' Many Christians would fall into this category. Interestingly, in the Bible even the devil know
113 TACAA320 : I didn't say "you say it." Neither do I. Believers are [usually] fearless and happy people if they act according to God's will. The commandments are
114 TACAA320 : You really impress me with your vast knowlegde of the French language. But once again, your way of thinking in this regard don't have much followers
115 PA110 : OMG, this is just mental masturbation. Man created the concept of a supreme being to explain those things he doesn't understand. Every society has don
116 Post contains images David L : Fair enough, I very nearly avoided that but it's a phrase quite commonly used in English. And you know this... how?
117 Post contains images Iamcanadian : I'm not sure if you know EXACTLY who "the Devil" is, but he is in fact an angel rejected from Heaven (ie. Lucifer). He was essentially "second in com
118 Post contains images David L : You provided a quote saying there is no need for competition of any kind between reason and faith, which is effectively what the thread is about. I p
119 Bezoar : Yes. And it might be further said that as much as the devil tempts us, he has no interest in any of us except to use us as fodder for his desire to g
120 CastleIsland : Basically because your concept of what God may be is "physical" and mine is purely metaphysical. Fair enough.
121 Bezoar : I would add that it is impossible to follow the Ten Commandments to the letter, and that is the downfall of man. We cannot make ourselves righteous,
122 777236ER : Religious babble to get around the fact that reason strongly suggests there isn't a god. Seriously, if a god exists, why did He make it appear that h
123 Iamcanadian : How didn't he?
124 777236ER : What direct evidence is there that he does exist? Why did he make such a vast universe, just for us? Why make the universe so old? Why create flora a
125 Post contains images Iamcanadian : Therein lies the rub. There really is no "direct evidence" for God's existence. The best we can do is conclude that since there are things about this
126 CastleIsland : As a scientist of some 20 years, I can see the difference between the calculated and the spiritual. I'm not at all religious, BTW, but I have no obje
127 Post contains images Baroque : That will do me. Sorry Palladium, we were not all taught Pancasila rule one, there is a God. Did you ever notice that Pancasila rule five, social jus
128 TACAA320 : Your reason ? Because mine and the billions of believers suggests exactly the opposite. Ask Him directly. With an open heart. He will take care of al
129 High_flyr69 : one is the truth and what we know as reality. The other is a fictional belief for people who done have it in them to own up to the truth accept realit
130 777236ER : That requires not just faith, but blind faith, which means that asking each version of 'god' proposed is about as valid as every other. Just because
131 Post contains images David L : A reasonable point but I'd say there's a difference between the two approaches. The scientific approach is to find out how and why, no matter how man
132 Post contains images JGPH1A : Sanitation engineering is a science ?
133 TACAA320 : There is only one faith. Hebrews Chapter 11 1. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen... Does it make it fal
134 Post contains images David L : And that's the point. Belief alone doesn't prove it either way. For example, what about the mother of someone charged with murder who believes her so
135 TACAA320 : In this specific point, belief is enough. Otherwise we will not be believers. You have the freedom of thinking what ever you want as well as I do. An
136 David L : I think that mother would disagree. She "knows" her son couldn't kill. It was an analogy. I'm not saying murder and belief in God are the same. It's
137 TACAA320 : Can you prove that ? For any religion, belief is basic, indispensable.
138 TACAA320 : James Madison: Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other religions, may establish with the
139 Post contains images David L : Can I prove that's what I think?    Never mind proof, do you actually believe that no mother would ever be blind to her son's criminal activity? I
140 David L : Those quotes only tell us what those people think.
141 CastleIsland : No, it certainly isn't. This is partly my point. For one denomination to have one conception of God and another denomination to have a different conc
142 TACAA320 : That is what you believe. Is the same reason why I can't scientifically demonstrate that God exist. Is what I believe. And there is a big truth in ea
143 Post contains images David L : Fair enough. Agreed, and that's one of the reasons I don't regard the claim that there is "only one true faith" as proof of anything. In fact, I'm st
144 CastleIsland : It actually doesn't matter all that much to me whether God "exists" or not. As I mentioned earlier, I am not at all religious, but I am spiritual. I
145 Post contains images David L : So, you don't believe any mother would ever believe her son to be innocent of a murder charge? Interesting. You're the only one who said he could off
146 TACAA320 : That's an extreme affirmation. Not in all cases. But I'll bet that even Hitler's mother believe [if she was alive] that her son was innocent. If you
147 Bezoar : Think about this again. Truth can be expressed in many different ways. The Bible was written by 60+ authors over a few thousand years, each with thei
148 777236ER : Through the same concept of faith you use to justify the existance of God I can close my eyes and believe the sky is green, grass is blue and I'm the
149 David L : Actually, you said... Perhaps we can just agree that you didn't mean to say that. Who said what first has no bearing on the matter. So what was the p
150 Bezoar : I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say, so let me be quite clear about what I meant. Some of the Bible is metaphorical, just as some of it is
151 Iamcanadian : How can you make a speculation on something dependent on what a believer feels when you (I'm assuming) are not a believer yourself? I think (at least
152 777236ER : No, that argument had nothing to do with what the believer feels, but the physical evidence. Try again. If he's that interactive, why does he not hav
153 Bezoar : Well, I guess you could interpret the entire Bible as a metaphor if you wish. You can make any claim or draw any conclusions you want. What I underst
154 Post contains links Iamcanadian : This is what YOU said: You mentioned "senses", as in hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, seeing. How is this not what somebody feels? Are YOU makin
155 TACAA320 : Also a blind person from their birth may think similar. But that´s not the point. Faith doesn´t refer to green skies, or blue grass. Faith is refer
156 Post contains links B2707SST : This in itself negates the concept of free will. How can humans make free choices if our days are, literally, pre-ordained? Put me down for science,
157 Iamcanadian : From my understanding, this is supposed to be an argument against the possibility of the absence of God, based on the notion that God is supposed to
158 Thrawn : If God created the earth in 6 days and on the 7th had a day of rest Why is it that all the God botherers and bible bashers then go and annoy him on hi
159 Bezoar : Some thoughts from B2707SST's post: His assumption seems to be that an omnipotent God would not have given us free will. If it pleased God to have giv
160 Bezoar : If you substitute 'mankind' for 'religion' you will have it correct, and it will start to make sense.
161 777236ER : You're missing the point. I'm not saying you don't have free will, but 'faith' isn't proof of anything. With faith you can believe the earth is flat.
162 TACAA320 : Sorry sir. You're the one missing the point. As I tried to explain before, faith refer to "incorporeal things" [spiritual ones]. You can't believe th
163 Post contains images Bezoar : You have attributed someone else's words to me. My world has ups and downs.
164 TACAA320 : Heeeeyyyyyyyyy, something is wrong with the "quoting device" at a.net. I'm really sorry. That was not really my intention. Please accept my apologies
165 Bezoar : No problem, TACAA320. You have a fine day as well. We ALL have much to be thankful for, regardless of our beliefs or to whom we give our thanks.
166 TACAA320 : Very nice of you !!!!!
167 Post contains images David L : Now, you assume something is up with the quoting system while I wonder how it could have happened. I see that the text you quoted is from a post imme
168 TACAA320 : Happy Thanksgiving Day David !!!
169 TACAA320 : Just, and let me insist, JUST if you're right, what's the bid deal ? Once again, happy holiday !
170 Post contains images David L : As big as "mundane":
171 TACAA320 : I'm really impressed with your eloquence David. Is the greatest argument I ever read ! Congratulations [in this special day].
172 OlegShv : Did you even read your own reference? FYI, it says: Here are some extra questions regarding the Flood story. 1. Where did all of the water come from
173 Post contains links Bezoar : I suspect that the author of the flood story was likely talking about the world as it was known to them at that time. That would have represent a sma
174 Post contains images David L : There are certainly tales of major flooding from many cultures around the world that coincide roughly with the end of an ice age, though the suddenne
175 Post contains images TACAA320 : LOL.
176 Jacobin777 : Maybe we will.but science by definition isn't capable of explaining everything...
177 Paulc : Science every time. Religeon was created by men / all the holy books were written by men not some supreme being.
178 Rolfen : God said somewhere in the bible that the human has the choice to believe or not. It's called free will. Hence, god cannot force you to believe in him.
179 Baroque : Gerinoil has been discovered in the Middle East. Three major discoveries have been made. This will change the face of the world as we know it!
180 TACAA320 : quote=Paulc,reply=177]Religeon[sic] was created by men [/quote] Also orthography and the "spell check" device.
181 David L : Of course not but things that can't be explained by science remain "unexplained... so far". Science doesn't force an explanation where it has failed
182 TACAA320 : And science too !
183 Bezoar : In religion, it is called mystery. Non-believers often make the claim that religion was created by man to provide answers to that which isn't known.
184 David L : OK, but by the same token a lot of believers cite incompleteness in science as evidence of the superiority of religion. I think that has even been im
185 Bezoar : I'm sure you are right about that, and it points to the extreme position folks tend to take on such matters. It's also an issue that points back to t
186 Post contains links TACAA320 : " Reason before the mystery 13. It should nonetheless be kept in mind that Revelation remains charged with mystery. It is true that Jesus, with his e
187 Post contains images Wrighbrothers : Finally I have the chance to reply I do appologise, I quoted the worng person, sorry. So he died for every sin that was and is ever to be commited ?.
188 Iamcanadian : Repenting or asking for forgiveness is in no way a "repayment". Jesus died for our sins so that we would have the opportunity to accept God's gift of
189 Post contains images Aero145 : :D That's right. If you're put to koffins under ground (if you haven't been cooked   you'd probably be eaten by little insects. Gross, why? It's
190 Thomson735 : Ever thought of maybe the opposite to good being Evil??? Its human nature to kill each other that is nature it wont be stoped, as for diseases well t
191 Post contains images Comorin : Caltech is the Kingdom of Heaven. His Word is truly written in "Lectures in Physics (vols I-III)" and His Name is Richard P. Feynman...
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