Eal401 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (12 years 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1397 times:
Just some food for thought;
Irish Republican Army attacks on UK soil;
1970's - Army barracks bombed in Aldershot, 7 killed including 5 women.
Feb 1974 - Coach carrying servicemen and families bombed, 11 dead.
1974 - Bars in Guilford bombed, 2 soldiers and 3 civilians killed, 50 injured.
Nov 1974 - Bars in Birmingham bombed, 21 civilians killed.
1984 - Hotel in Brighton bombed, 5 members of government killed.
1993 - Warrington town centre bombed, 2 children killed.
1993 - City of London bombed, 1 dead, 44 injured, £350million damage caused.
Feb 1996 - Canary Wharf, London bombed, 2 dead, £85million damage caused.
1996 - Manchester city centre bombed, 200 injured, damage still being repaired.
What is the link?
Each and every death and injury caused above has been knowingly funded by United States citizens and businesses.
So, next time you all start kicking and screaming when someone dares criticise America (see either of Hoffa's recent posts), just think of the innocent men, women and children your people have willing helped murder in the UK and Northern Ireland, there are many more incidents other than the above.
In 1986, during a congressional ban on U.S. military assistance to the Nicaraguan contra rebels, the fugitive terrorist, Luis Posada Carriles, had been recruited into Oliver North's secret gun-running operation. Though charged in Venezuela with allegedly blowing a civilian airliner out of the sky a decade earlier, the CIA-trained explosives expert was made the operation's logistics chief. He oversaw caches of munitions stored at El Salvador's Ilopango airport and paid North's crews with bags of cash delivered from Miami. In return for this contra help, Posada was rewarded with false government papers to conceal his identity.
Two weeks later, on Oct. 6, a Cubana airliner took off from Barbados. Nine minutes into the flight, a bomb exploded killing all 73 people on board, including the Cuban national fencing team. Police soon arrested two men who had gotten off the plane in Barbados. They were Posada's employees and had called Posada immediately after the plane crashed. One of the men confessed to the bombing. And when police searched Posada's residence, they found incriminating evidence, including Cubana flight schedules.
In 1992, Posada spoke with the FBI for 6 1/2 hours. Then, he left the U.S. embassy and slipped back into obscurity. The Cuban government occasionally demands that the United Nations seek his return to Cuba to stand trial on terrorism charges. But the United States has taken no steps to assist in Posada's apprehension.
NUAir From Malaysia, joined Jun 2000, 1181 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (12 years 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1182 times:
your blaming the US for the IRA attacks now??????
man this is crazy!!!! Anyone can make money and send it to anyone thanks to..........banks! If someone in America makes money and sends it to the Taliban or the IRA or their aunt Edna they can do it as anyone can in any other country. If you want this to stop nuke Switzerland and the Cayman Islands, because none of those bank accounts that were used to fund IRA bombings will be found in the US.
Maybe we should also talk about the thousands of Irish who have been attacked and oppressed by the English gov't that led them to take such actions.
And in case you havent picked up a paper since the start of the cold war, the US and Cuba have been having a little thing going on for a couple of decades. The Cuban minority in America will not allow the return of any fugative to Cuba until all land and money that was taken during the revolution is returned to them. Dont blame the entire country for that.
next accusation please...................
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
Hoffa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (12 years 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1169 times:
Open your eyes a little bit. The US government permitted known IRA terrorists to travel to the United States and raise money to murder innocent people both in Northern Ireland and the UK itself---all over the strenuous and vociferous protest of the UK government. Its an active solicitation effort stretching back decades---not the simple Mom and Pop operation you describe. Do a little research on "Noraid" before you presume to speak.
Cuban Exile groups have received backing from the CIA and its drug-cash and have (just to name one example) blown up a Cubana airliner in 1976 killing all 73 aboard.
Now why would the USA who conducts the war on terrorism allow a known terrorist organization with links to Colombian druglords and the Libyan government be allowed to conduct fundraisers inside its borders? I mean the US stands for the eradication of terrorism, right?
Banco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 54 Reply 10, posted (12 years 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1124 times:
NUAir, I don't entirely disagree with your comments - to blame the USA for Northern Ireland is a cheap shot, it's far more complicated than that. But let's get one thing straight: Northern Ireland is a democracy. It is not an occupied land with a colonial power in situ. The reason why it is part of the UK is because the majority, yes the majority, of the population wish it to be so. As soon as the majority do not wish to be part of the UK, then it will cease to be so. If you conducted a poll of the British people a vast majority would love to get out as soon as possible. It has cost a fortune to keep the army in place (to stop the terrorist starting a civil war) in both money and lives.
Of course the history of the place is a disaster, and of course some dreadful errors have been made across the centuries. But there is simply no excuse for the kind of terrorism we have seen over the past 30 years.
Ireland is a terribly complicated topic and the romantic view of it which a few people in the States subscribe to is some way wide of the mark. For example, the majority of Americans of Irish descent were actually Protestants, not Catholics. Equally, the history books tend not to record the ethnic cleansing of the Protestants from the South of Ireland. Now, none of this justifies the very great wrongs that have been committed by Protestant/Loyalists or indeed the British themselves who did not react to the famine in the 19th century (they didn't cause it by the way, they just failed to react - in my book that's almost as bad anyway, like the West in Rwanda) and certainly didn't prevent the oppression of the Catholics in the late 1960's with anything like the fortitude they should have done.
This is such a deep subject, and the shenanigans of Northern Irish politics is baffling to everyone outside, particularly in the rest of the UK. The sight of Catholic schoolchildren having to be protected from the mob by the police made us all feel sick. But please delve a little into the whole subject before posting such a comment. It's more complicated than you can believe.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
Banco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 54 Reply 12, posted (12 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1099 times:
I hoped I had made that absolutely clear. There is no justification for terrorism on any side. By the way, a few definitions for you:
Unionism: A moderate political viewpoint believing in Northern Ireland as a part of the UK, e.g. the UUP
Loyalism: The extreme version of Unionism encompassing terrorism amongst other violent acts and attitudes, e.g. the UDP/UFF, UVF etc.
Nationalism: A moderate political viewpoint believing in Northern Ireland as a part of the Republic of Ireland, seceding from the UK. e.g. the SDLP.
Republicanism: The extreme version of Nationalism, encompassing terrorism amongst other violent acts and attitudes. e.g. Sinn Fein/IRA, Real IRA, Continuity IRA.
Both Unionism and Nationalism are honourable political viewpoints. Loyalism and Republicanism are not.
In other words, you don't get Unionist terrorists any more than you get Nationalist ones, but you do get Loyalist and Republican ones. They are as despicable as each other. Loyalist aren't doing it on behalf of the Crown any more than Republicans are doing it on behalf of the Irish State.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
Alpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (12 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1100 times:
And, just what does this have to do with the current war, EAL401?
Another mindless soul, who blames the US for all the problems in the world. Every death in that conflict is the fault of the US. Way to shift the blame away from those who are really at fault. But hey, it's better to blame the Americans than to blame those really at fault.
Braniff727 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 686 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (12 years 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1080 times:
FACT: Not all Americans of Irish descent fund the IRA.
FACT: Not all Americans think the Government in the US is perfect.
FACT: Not all Americans support terrorism in ANY form including terrorism that comes from the US.
FACT: People are stereotyping ALL Americans based solely on the actions / words of the minority.
FACT: Most Americans do not want to see anyone in anywhere die because someone else feels they do not have the right to live.
FACT: This American is getting tired of people judging 280 million people based on the stupidity of the minority.
FACT: There are 280 million people in the USA, most of whom are descendants of people from other countries, and therefore have ties to those countries.
FACT: Many Americans are descendants from Afganistan.
QUESTION: Did the USA fund the September 11th attacks?
FACT: Americans are not hypicratical as a whole, but there are many who are, as in Ireland, The UK, Germany, Japan, China, Canada...
If you think that the actions of the few represent the will of the people you are on crack, and I'm not talking about the US specifically.
In the US we elect people, and sometimes they lie and do things we never would agree to. That's the risk we take in voting for them. Because that happens, it doesn't make me a hypocrite. I vote based on who I think will uphold my beliefs, and that's the best I can do.
If they don't, then I vote for someone else. That's the way it works, and if you don't get it that my friends, I cannot help you.
Eal401 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (12 years 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1078 times:
...trying to make a point to Americans.
What a pair of witless wonders Alpha 1 and Braniff727 are!!
I had read Hoffa's post and its replies and was getting pretty sick of the Afghans killing US citizens wrong/US killing Afghan citizens right, America is faultless etc, etc, bloody etc viewpoints.
I was making a point, which I have desperately tried making before, that the US is just as responsible for terrorism as Afghanistan (Fact: Not all Afghan citizens will have supported Sep. 11!!!!! Yet the US holds all Afganistan responsible. Of course someone dares do the same to the US...).
I apologise for trying to be clever, and acknowledge that future posts on this subject will have to be worded for American minds, i.e. small words and big letters.
JetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 12 Reply 20, posted (12 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1059 times:
HAHAHAHAHA!!! oooooog!!! aaaahg!!! man talk bad of supa-powa must be smart man! aaaaack-poooo!!!! ooooooga!!! man feel betta now!!! man outsmart all of supa-powa. eeeeeeeghfapumph!!! man should run supa-powa so supa-powa more supa-er. aaaaaaack!!!!
Alpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (12 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1059 times:
ROTFL!! Good one guys!!
Eal401, to clairify one thing: this isn't about if it's "right" to kill Afghani's. Fact is, I think 99% percent of us on this board, whatever side we're on-me included-wishes to God none of those people had died in this conflict. But they have, and they have because of the actions of THEIR government, and the support it gave to OBL. That's what the bottom line is. I mean, people like you want it both ways: you blame the US policy for leading to the attacks, then you blame and critisize the US for responding to the attacks, and killing some civilians in the process. Do I detect a little bias in that way of thinking??
AC_A340 From Canada, joined Sep 1999, 2251 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (12 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1055 times:
Nobody seems to know why a good chunk of the world hates the US. Look at the real history in International politics in the last 50 years. Not textbook history, I'm talking about what has really happened. Then maybe people will start to realize why so many people hate America.