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New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In  
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3388 times:

And, since he's Muslim, what the hell is the big deal about this?

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a...93309990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001

The Congressman giving him crap for this is WAY out of line, in my estimation. If the man is not Christian, and the swearing-in can be done by any book the member wants, why is this even an issue.

Another sign of intolerance against Islam?

59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12029 posts, RR: 47
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3382 times:
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British courts have long allowed the swearing of oaths to be done on whichever religious book anyone wants. Alternatively, for the non-religious amongst us, one can affirm.

Oaths and affirmation for witnesses:
http://www.cjsonline.gov.uk/defendan...ugh/the_trial/faqs/index.html#2641

Oaths and affirmation for jurors:
http://www.cjsonline.gov.uk/juror/wa...ugh/the_court/faqs/index.html#2278



Hey AA, the 1960s called. They want their planes back!
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3378 times:

I saw all of this coming when he won the Democratic nomination last summer.

Yes the religious-right shows there hypocrisy again.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3344 times:

Quoting from the article:

He said Ellison, a convert from Catholicism, should swear on a Christian Bible -- which "America holds as its holiest book. … If you are incapable of taking an oath on that book, don't serve in Congress."

So much for seperation of church and state ...


User currently offlineRolfen From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 1796 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3334 times:

They could make a compromise... he could swear with the coran under one hand and the bible under the other.


rolf
User currently offlineNancy From United States of America, joined May 2004, 467 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3334 times:

Prager wants to get his name in the news. Nothing new. Maybe he can save Christmas instead.

User currently offlineVikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9393 posts, RR: 27
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3334 times:
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See, things like this are the reason why I sometimes get pretty scared about living in the US.

I'm extremely proud to live in the US, which is why I hate to see us take steps backwards with regards to tolerance and diversity.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3313 times:

I am a Christian and I say give him a Koran. Give him a Webster's Dictionary if that is what he wants. I would actually prefer he not swear an oath using a text he has not belief in or regard for.


Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3295 times:

There is no law that says you have to take the oath with a bible or even invoke a higher Deity.

LBJ was sworn in using a missal (on board AF1), which is a book containing prayers and other devotional matter for celebrating Roman Catholic Mass throughout the year.


TR took the oath, without using the phrase "so help me god".

So what is the big friggen deal?


User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3263 times:

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 8):
So what is the big friggen deal?

Political capital for cheap outlay. Did you really expect it to be anything else?


User currently offlineHelvknight From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3246 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Another sign of intolerance against Islam?

Partially, but mainly some asshole politician who wants to see his face on the news.

OK I'm not an American but he can swear in on a copy of Penthouse if he wants. If he is a muslim then the Koran is what he believes in and it is what he should use.


User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 45
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3243 times:

Such a "law" requiring swearing-in on a Bible would definitely be in violation of the Establishment clause. However, this is not a law - it is a tradition. It is not even a Congressional rule, which would also be unconstitutional.

This man has a right to be sworn in on the Koran, just as some lawmakers have had the to not be sworn in on a Bible. Also, some, including at least one of our early Presidents who was a Quaker, choose to affirm instead of swear an oath. This is perfectly legal and is allowed from the simplest civil duties (jury service) to the highest office in the land, the Presidency.



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3234 times:

Quoting Redngold (Reply 11):
at least one of our early Presidents who was a Quaker

Richard Nixon was a Quaker too. The proper (PC) term is 'The Friends', not Quaker.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineBasas From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3215 times:

Look at the poll results:

< Yes 55%
No 45%
Total Votes: 177,925
Note on Poll Results >>

< Yes 54%
No 41%
Not sure 5%
Total Votes: 178,025
>>

It's obvious this makes alot of folks uncomfortable.


User currently offlineCastleIsland From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3190 times:

Quoting Basas (Reply 14):
Are you offended by Ellison's decision to take the oath of office on a Koran?
Yes 55%
No 45%
Total Votes: 177,925
Note on Poll Results

Should lawmakers, regardless of their faith, have to swear on the Bible?
Yes 54%
No 41%
Not sure 5%
Total Votes: 178,025

It's obvious this makes alot of folks uncomfortable.

It appears more obvious that it make a lot of folks bigoted, mindless lemmings who probably couldn't put together a coherent argument as to why they feel this way. So, they want a politician to swear an oath on a book that means nothing to him. How's that level of confidence working for you now? As absurd as this is, it's completely predictable, really.


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12163 posts, RR: 36
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3180 times:
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Coming from my home state, I think he should be able to swear in on the Koran. Hell, give him Playboy, and say "so help me Hugh" for all that matters.

Forcing the Bible on him is just dumb.



911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3172 times:

Quoting Basas (Reply 14):
It's obvious this makes alot of folks uncomfortable.

I couldnt care less if this makes people uncomfortable - the question they have to ask themselves is: is it acceptable within the Christian faith for a Christian to swear on another religions icons? If not, why is it acceptable for other religions to have to swear on a Christian icon?

Whatever happened to religious freedom and non persecution? By forcing a non Christian to swear on the Bible is tantamount to forcing that religion on people.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3172 times:

Quoting Basas (Reply 14):

Being uncomfortable doesn't violate anyone's constitutional rights, last time I checked.  Smile


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21085 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3145 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 18):
Being uncomfortable doesn't violate anyone's constitutional rights, last time I checked.

Unfortunately, a lot of people act like it does. Let him take the oath on the Koran if he wants to.

Out of curiosity, did Lieberman take his oath on the Torah?

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineCastleIsland From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3113 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 19):
Out of curiosity, did Lieberman take his oath on the Torah?

Yes, but they made him eat lobster with cream sauce on the same plate in return.  Wink

Actually, that's a great question. It might be difficult to get an accurate answer to that one.


User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3102 times:

Prager just wanted to get his name out there for extra PR, but at this time the mainstream media is just ignorning him. Just trying to stir up trouble..

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 18):
Being uncomfortable doesn't violate anyone's constitutional rights, last time I checked. Smile

 stirthepot 


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21085 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3089 times:

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 20):
It might be difficult to get an accurate answer to that one.

Well, if it is, I think that says a lot.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3051 times:

As long as he does his damn job and doesn't play uber-partisan politics, I don't care if he swaers in using a Stack of old spooge stained Hustler Magazines . . .

User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3036 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 19):
Out of curiosity, did Lieberman take his oath on the Torah?

Not sure about Lieberman in particular, but as far as I know, most Jewish politicans take the oath on the Torah. Here is a photo of the new White House Chief-of-Staff being sworn in...The Hebrew letters are visible.



I imagine that someone like Prager would argue that the United States is a Judeo-Christian nation...


User currently offlineBlrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1393 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3014 times:

Why are some people even making this an issue? When a person takes oath on a book he respects and follows, it shows the seriousness he attaches to his oath. So, a person taking oath on Koran is doing just that, in the name of the God he believes in.

Now, a really messed up person might take oath on a book that he doesn't care, and do things contrary to the oath he took, for he will be under no moral compulsion as he doesn't believe in that book anyway  Smile


25 Bushpilot : He shouldnt have to compromise. He is allowed to swear in on whatever he likes. I am a local city council member and take virtually an identical oath
26 EWRCabincrew : In the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter. It is holy to him and that is what should matter. If you want a bible, the Torah or nothing, so be it
27 Lowrider : Now that is an argument I have to take issue with. Whose "house" is ever 100% perfect? To hold anyone to that standard is ridiculous and stupid. Acco
28 OttoPylit : I'm not saying I disagree with him, but I'm also not saying that I agree with him, but has anyone bothered to wonder that the laws the US lives by, no
29 Post contains images N229NW : One dumbs**t conservative columnist saying something is sad but doesn't surprise me. On the other hand those poll results scare the crap out of me. ?
30 Blrsea : Aren't the two statements contradictory? If I read you right, the original settlers escaped prosecution for their religion, and now their religion sh
31 Post contains images CO7e7 : That's because he wasn't a muslim!
32 OttoPylit : No, the point of religious freedom is that you are free to worship whatever religion you choose without persecution. However, this country was founde
33 EWRCabincrew : That's just it. No one's house is. There is no argument there. Your house than anyone else's. Don't judge someone on how they practise. Your way is n
34 Post contains images Allstarflyer : As opposed to the pure-white virtue of the left . Probably true. In Acts, when Paul witnessed to the Ephesians, he didn't decry their goddess, Diana,
35 Lowrider : Perhaps, but one need not be perfect to say if something is right or wrong. Example. I am not perfect. I think murder and child molestation is wrong.
36 Mandala499 : Is there an established state religion? If not... then why shouldn't he be allowed to swear on the Quran? Then if the US is a Christian state, why al
37 CastleIsland : It is not Islam that you have an issue with here, it is a radical faction of Islam. Honestly, I thought you were smarter than that.
38 NWA742 : Yep, although the perceptions continue to differ regarding what constitutes "radical Islam", and how much "radical Islam" makes up of Islam itself. G
39 Jwenting : From a Muslim fundamentalist with communist leanings? Of course not. The constitution as interpreted by the UCLA states clearly that you have a right
40 FlyingTexan : "He should not be allowed to do so," Prager wrote, "not because of any American hostility to the Koran, but because the act undermines American cultur
41 Post contains images Scorpio : A Muslim fundamentalist??? Communist leanings??? So because he wants to swear in on the Koran he's suddenly a Muslim fundamentalist? Does that mean t
42 TransIsland : The University of California, Los Angeles, is the ultimate authority when it comes to interpreting the constitution? I didn't know that. However, I b
43 Post contains images 767Lover : No "imagining" about it...Prager has stated this. To be clear, Prager (the one causing the fuss) is NOT a congressman or politician. He is a radio ho
44 Post contains images N229NW : As I said above, what scares me are the poll results, more than some conservative pundit (predictably) being an idiot. NOW we're talking...but no alm
45 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : - This is absolutely devastating, and rather saddening ! I would never have expected the domination of such extremist positions. - he only had to ask
46 Post contains links Blrsea : Does the US constitution mention anywhere that its ideals were borrowed from the bible? Does it state anywhere in the constitution that Bible was the
47 767Lover : And in 2002, Le Pen got a majority vote in one election. Does that mean people should be scared to live in France? These poll results don't mean anyt
48 Bravo45 : As much as I, by experience whole heartedly say that the US in general is a very tolerant society, I think the dirty politics and the state of world a
49 ME AVN FAN : It simply was NOT a majority. He got more votes than any of the other dozen candidates, but NOT a majority at all.
50 MD-90 : As a Southern Baptist and a libertarian, I say he has the right under our law to swear on whatever religious document that he likes. It doesn't even h
51 QXatFAT : Well technically it is seperation of church and state. Nothing is wrong with it. The US Supreme Court rulled on a case not to long ago saying it is a
52 767Lover : Ok. I was just trying to point out that a whole lot of people voted for him.
53 767Lover : Guys, read this part of the article. Members of the House of Representatives traditionally raise their right hands and are sworn in together on the fl
54 ME AVN FAN : true, but first of all, the difference between "a whole lot" and "majority" for many people in France in particular but in Western Europe in general
55 Pyrex : And the United States expressed "the laws and morals it was founded on" in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights - why not swear in on that instead
56 JGPH1A : They had no such lofty aim in mind; they weren't after freedom of ALL religion, just THEIR religion ie. fundamentalist puritanism. The pilgrim settle
57 Sunking737 : I live in MN, He is my Congressman. I don't care what book he uses. Just as long as he does the job he was elected to do.
58 Redngold : Last time I went to a Friends church they described themselves, out loud, during the service, as "part of Quakerdom." So I stand by what you assert t
59 Garnetpalmetto : Try again. Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli states that: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the C
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