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Iranian Holocaust "conference"  
User currently offlineN229NW From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 32
Posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 1813 times:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1964838,00.html

I find this really depressing.

Why must people so often stoop to the lowest possible ways to assert themselves? It is obvious this whole conference is largely "revenge" for the Danish cartoons and a deliberate attempt to provoke and hurt. Those cartoons were stupid and offensive, but what is solved by being stupid and offensive back? And, while I feel that free speech should extend even to Holocaust denial (because otherwise it is hypocritical, and just makes denial the "forbidden fruit...), it still saddens me that so many people can be persuaded to alter and deny history instead of being honest about it and arguing instead about its effects.

For example, it should be possible to take issue with the way the Holocaust has been used to justify Israeli policy without denying that it happened and the suffering it caused.

It should be possible to argue that non-Jewish victims of the Holocaust need to be better included in memorials without denying the whole thing too.

I for one would argue both of the above (as would many other Jews I know, and many sensible, moderate Christians and Muslims that I know). What I find so truly sad is that by convening this "scientific" conference where most of the people invited are Holocaust deniers in the first place, all the Iranian government is doing is making it harder to debate a very sensitive topic reasonably.

This kind of thing plays right into the hands of people who cry anti-semitism whenever Israel is criticized--because it shows how many people are willing to distort history and demonize people instead of presenting real counterarguments about the present time. The organizers even say that if they "conclude that the Holocaust happened, we will admit it but we are still going to ask why Palestinians have to pay."

So then why the whole charade? Why not just ask that question to begin with instead of fueling a giant conspiracy theory about what happened 60 years ago?

Anyone who believes history can be decided by a "vote" so to speak (especially when the vote is rigged) clearly is not trying to get at any truth--and all such people ultimately do is inflame passions and hatred and cause extremist counterarguments.

This gets nobody anywhere.

 frown 


It's people like you what cause unrest!
11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1795 times:

Next on the Iran conference schedule:

1. How the CIA and Mossad were involved in 9/11
2. Fake moon landings and why the US faked them.
3. Insert another moronic idea or freak conspiracy theory.


User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6604 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 1746 times:

Latest news.... it's all a myth

http://www.irna.ir/en/news/view/line-17/0612128982003324.htm

Now call me ignorant, but looking at the list of countries where speakers are from,

Researchers and intellectuals from Iran, Germany, the US, Austria, Jordan, Armenia, Australia, Indonesia, Britain, Italy, Bahrain, Belgium, Portugal, Pakistan, Denmark, Russia, Japan, the Ivory Coast, France, Kenya, Malaysia, Hungary, Morocco, Egypt, Nigeria and Egypt are scheduled to deliver speeches.

I'd wonder what could be offered by speakers from the Ivory Coast and Nigeria, unless they have their own mass murders to chat about.



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineN229NW From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 32
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 1713 times:

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 2):
Latest news.... it's all a myth

Wait! Stop the press!  sarcastic 

I'm so friggin surprised.

Next up: Haliburton's international conference on Global Warming and Phillip Morris's International Conference proving that smoking cures cancer.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,1970043,00.html

So nice to see they have invited famous KKK members and neo-Nazis and are setting up nice book booths and poster displays too. Great scholarship, dumbasses. This is truly horrendous drivel, and the funny thing is that while there may be serious historians questioning or adjusting small things like the exact number of Jews killed (does it really matter if it is 4.345436 million or 6.021432?) or the way in which the Holocaust has been exploited in some ways, none of these people are the types attending this farce. (Plus, that crazy sect of Hassidic rabbis who will say or do anything because they believe the Messiah will strike them down if they don't destroy Israel get to be the "balancing" point of view! Wow, that's good objective historical research technique too!)

On top of everything else, what these people don't realize is that they are hurting their "goal" of bringing international sympathy to the plight of the Palestinians by making other reasonable people who support this cause look guilty of extremism by association with their own idiocy. That's sad too.



It's people like you what cause unrest!
User currently offlineShakeZulaNJ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 1697 times:

It's nice to see Tehran spending money in constructive ways. Obviously, things like infrastructure and healthcare are up to speed in Iran, so money can be spent on the real issues; holding an event that does nothing to benefit the people of Iran and and only serves to embarrass them in front of the world.

User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 1690 times:

Quoting N229NW (Reply 3):
So nice to see they have invited famous KKK members and neo-Nazis and are setting up nice book booths and poster displays too. Great scholarship, dumbasses. This is truly horrendous drivel, and the funny thing is that while there may be serious historians questioning or adjusting small things like the exact number of Jews killed (does it really matter if it is 4.345436 million or 6.021432?) or the way in which the Holocaust has been exploited in some ways, none of these people are the types attending this farce. (Plus, that crazy sect of Hassidic rabbis who will say or do anything because they believe the Messiah will strike them down if they don't destroy Israel get to be the "balancing" point of view! Wow, that's good objective historical research technique too!)

David Duke was an attendee....nuff said there....Kooksville, daddy-o.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12878 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 1680 times:

Look, this 'confrerence' is to try to discredit the reason for the existance of the State of Israel. The Holocaust by the Nazi era government of Germany in the 1933-1945 era is well and independently established to have killed at least 5 million + Jews just for being Jews and millions of other 'undesirables'.
I wonder if Muslims were included in the Nazi Holocaust? If so, them Iraq is embracing a former enemy.
Yes, David Duke, well established racist politican and former KKK leader, somehow ended up at this conference. Here is a guy that hates Jews and yet supports terrorist/anti-western Islamic peoples. I hope they arrest him for visa violations, treason or doing business with the enemy/Iran when he returns to the USA. Maybe they can put him in Gitmo as a supporter of terrorism or a terrorist state.


User currently offlineBravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 1666 times:

Quoting N229NW (Thread starter):
It is obvious this whole conference is largely "revenge" for the Danish cartoons and a deliberate attempt to provoke and hurt.

This is the part of your post I would strongly disagree with. The 'revenge' for offensive cartoons about the Prophet of Islam can ONLY be insult to other religion's prophets. But since Islam is the only religion which makes it an article of faith to accept Jesus and Moses as God's prophets, its impossible to take revenge in this case. That is IMO the main reason why you saw huge riots and flag burning because Islam restricts what could have been termed as revenge. At the same time I would say the western media's stance that the ME media calls Jews as pigs etc is also just as stupid. The 'revenge' to that would have been calling Muslims as pigs or whatever. Either way they are all messed up.
Its a great post but this part is not something I cannot agree with. This conference has got more to do with Ahmedinajad's obsession with the Holocaust than with any cartoons. These two should not be mixed.

Quoting N229NW (Thread starter):
it still saddens me that so many people can be persuaded to alter and deny history instead of being honest about it and arguing instead about its effects.



Quoting N229NW (Thread starter):
For example, it should be possible to take issue with the way the Holocaust has been used to justify Israeli policy without denying that it happened and the suffering it caused.



Quoting N229NW (Thread starter):
This kind of thing plays right into the hands of people who cry anti-semitism whenever Israel is criticized--because it shows how many people are willing to distort history and demonize people instead of presenting real counterarguments about the present time. The organizers even say that if they "conclude that the Holocaust happened, we will admit it but we are still going to ask why Palestinians have to pay."

So then why the whole charade? Why not just ask that question to begin with instead of fueling a giant conspiracy theory about what happened 60 years ago?

Anyone who believes history can be decided by a "vote" so to speak (especially when the vote is rigged) clearly is not trying to get at any truth--and all such people ultimately do is inflame passions and hatred and cause extremist counterarguments.

This gets nobody anywhere.

 checkmark  checkmark  checkmark  checkmark  checkmark 

Quoting N229NW (Thread starter):
What I find so truly sad is that by convening this "scientific" conference where most of the people invited are Holocaust deniers in the first place, all the Iranian government is doing is making it harder to debate a very sensitive topic reasonably.

Couldn't have said it better myself!!!
I wish Ahmedinajad would come across Prof Norman Finkelstein (and get some brains), who had done exactly the same. Being the son of parents who both went through the Holocaust with their families being wiped out, they questioned the way the Jewish organisations handled the holocaust, from the excesses of Israel to the mishandling of the compensation money, IMO they should be the real issues. I can't imagine the damage this would do to the sensible people and their work because both sides (Jewish/Zionist extremists and holocaust deniers) would play this conference up thus shutting any reasonable voice. I would still pray that reasonable people be somehow heard instead of these kinds of things.


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7951 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1657 times:

Let them hold the conference. All these fools can assemble in one place so we'll have the official rogues' gallery for the idiot police.


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12321 posts, RR: 35
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1618 times:

I really don't think we can afford to dismiss this likely; there are very noticeable - indeed, given his record, increasingly noticeable - parallels between Ahmedinejad and Goebbels. This constant "baiting" and gratuitous provocation of another sovereign state has gone beyond a level where we can say "oh, he's just being eccentric". When you engage in acts which would be illegal in other countries - and with good reason - and when you continue to do this despite the objections and revulsion expressed by other countries, when you call a conference (no matter what the apparent "justification" - what did Israel have to do with Danish cartoons; were they ever reprinted in Israel?) to "question" the most horrendous chapter in the history of mankind, you are stepping beyond the boundaries of civilised behaviour.

Tony Blair said today (I tried to find a link, but couldn't) that the Iranian regime was deliberately causing problems and was "deeply extreme". I have a feeling that the Iranian regime is gearing itself up for a major conflict and it needs to be nipped in the bud; a message needs to be sent to Ahmedinejad; the problem is, of course, that with the whole Iraq situation, he seems to think (probably with some justification) that he has the upper hand; the US may end up having to talk to Iran - that'll be a conversation to hear - and he probably has designs on annexing the southern part of Iraq.

Whichever way you look at it, between this "conference", the Iraqi situation (where, admittedly, he's taking advantage of a huge strategic error) and his nuclear programme, Iran is a country on which the world needs to keep a very close eye.


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12321 posts, RR: 35
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1594 times:

Oh, he's off on one again:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...locaust.conference.reut/index.html

The Zionist regime will soon be wiped out, he says; kind of loses its bite on the 40th occasion, but there you go.

Someone needs to do something about this guy - for Iran's sake as well as everyone else's. He's bad news.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1572 times:

Ok, for all those Iranian apologists on this forum-ME AVN FAN, you're at the top of the list, buddy-try to explain away, or shrug this one off, or say this guy doesn't mean the following:

"Just as the Soviet Union was wiped out and today does not exist, so will the Zionist regime soon be wiped out,"

And try to tell me the rest of the world-at least that part of the world that doesn't secrectly (or openly, for that matter), take great glee in the mere thought of a second holocaust-that this guy's nuclear program should go unchecked.

Apologize this one away, those of you who do that for a living on this board.


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