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Pearl Harbor Bombed 65 Years Ago Today  
User currently offlineTom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 33
Posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3104 times:

(didn't see this posted on any a.net forum: here, Civ-Av, or Military)

Today is the 65th anniversary of the bombing of Pearl Harbor by the Japanese Navy.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/07/pearl.harbor.ap/index.html

RIP, those who perished at Pearl, and those who perished from the resulting World War II.

Tom at MSY


"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3086 times:

R.I.P

It's these men that gave the ultimate sacrifice for us. So we could live in this great country.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3080 times:

Salute to "The Greatest Generation" and all those that fought and died - on any side - at Pearl Harbor.

User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3067 times:

To those who lost their lives so suddenly and without warning on that day, may you continue to rest in peace.

To those who lost their lives in the subsequent battles that ensued, to you we are thankful for the brave sacrifices you made. To those who fought and were lucky enough to return alive, thanks for sacrificing those years with your wives and children. To those who fought and died, thanks for sacrificing your lives so that the rest of us could enjoy freedom and liberty.

Having visited the Pearl Harbour memorial a couple of times, I was moved on both occasions by the enormity of what happened. The fact that the USS Arizona is still so clearly visible below the waterline, and still leaks drops of oil to the surface, is a stark reminder of how brutal the day of infamy was.

To all men and women who have served in the past or who are currently serving, I salute you. Thank you for your service.

And to our a.net friend in Iraq - keep fighting the good fight, and come back home safely. Good luck and God speed.


User currently offlineTNNH From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3037 times:

look at how prosporous of a reltionship we now share with Japan, a wonderful, modern, and innovative society and one of America's closest and most cherished friends.

perhaps our enemies today can take note in the fact that working peacefully and co-operatively with the our great notion has time and again benefitted this planet in ways too innumerable to count.


User currently offlineDavestanKSAN From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1678 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3037 times:

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 3):

Very nice post, I agree completely

God bless our heroes who died fighting so bravely. RIP

And God Bless the Veterans.

Godspeed to those fighting, you make us proud. Please come home safe.

Dave



Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8021 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3025 times:

Interesting post TNNH.

The importance of the overall quality of the Japanese people cannot be emphasized enough in understanding the way the postwar relationship developed.

Our enemies today are in a completely different, much less incomparable, category.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offline9V From China, joined Aug 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3022 times:

Have a look at THESE "Never seen before" pictures.  

[Edited 2006-12-07 22:03:41]

User currently offlineBwest From Belgium, joined Jul 2006, 1366 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3004 times:

Quoting Tom in NO (Thread starter):
and those who perished from the resulting World War II.

Not to be nitpicking, but World War II was underway for 2 years already... september 1, 1939: Nazi Germany invades Poland, as a reaction, the UK & France declare war...



I love my Airport Job! :)
User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3001 times:

Quoting 9V (Reply 7):
Have a look at THESE "Never seen before" pictures.

Several of those pictures are display at the Pearl Harbor Museum, but they are still quite shocking to see. At the harbor today, there is very little to indicate that it was once the scene of such devastation, and to be able to put these pictures in perspective to the lay of the land is quite fascinating. Looking at the various people in the shots, you can almost see the shock on their faces at what is unfolding before them. Thanks for posting, 9V.


User currently onlineRIXrat From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 786 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2990 times:

Pearl Harbor, an attack which will "live in infamy" according to Roosevelt! Too many people tend to forget that the U.S. lost almost as many people in the Pearl Harbor attack as they lost in the 9/11 attacks. I salute someone who reminds us in photos regarding the terrible attack on Pearl Harbor.

User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2984 times:

Quoting 9V (Reply 7):

Very interesting link.

Thanks !


User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24904 posts, RR: 56
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2954 times:

Quoting Tom in NO (Thread starter):
RIP, those who perished at Pearl, and those who perished from the resulting World War II.

Tom at MSY



Quoting Bwest (Reply 8):
Not to be nitpicking, but World War II was underway for 2 years already... september 1, 1939: Nazi Germany invades Poland, as a reaction, the UK & France declare war...

Was gonna say the same thing...

Tragic day nonetheless...



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8021 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2919 times:

Not to be nitpicking, but World War II was underway for 2 years already

Not to nitpick further but...Japan attacked Chinese forces near Beijing on July 7, 1937 with forces staged in Manchuria, which itself had been occupied since 1931. The war in Asia was quite long.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineVenus6971 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1439 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2904 times:

Some of the buildings on Hickam AFB still have the chips in the cement from Japenese straifing runs.


I would help you but it is not in the contract
User currently onlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13965 posts, RR: 63
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2904 times:

The people killed in Pearl Harbour were not the first Americans to be killed in WW2. Starting in 1939, there existed an unofficial battle between the US Navy escorting convoys to Britain in the Western Atlantic ocean and German submarines. During this time several American warships have been sunk, including the destroyer Reuben James.
I also remember having heard about an incident in China in the 1930s, where an American gun boat patroling the Yangtse river was attacked by Japanese forces.

This doesn't include the American volunteers who fought in China, Spain and Britain from 1935 to 1941 (including American pilots who volunteered to fight in the RAF during the Batle of Britain).

Jan


User currently offlineSaintsman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 2065 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2896 times:

Unfortunately I'm unaware of the history behind this attack. What were the Americans doing to cause Japan to strike in the first place?

Please note this is not a USA bashing question.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29790 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2894 times:

Quoting Saintsman (Reply 16):
What were the Americans doing to cause Japan to strike in the first place?

The Japanese had eyes on southwest asia, rubber in Malaya, Oil in Burma and Vietnam.

The US presence in the Phillipines was a threat to their expanisons. Those forces would be reinforced by the fleet that had been moved from San Diego to Pearl.

Destroy the Fleet and you can isolate the Phillipines.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently onlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13965 posts, RR: 63
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2876 times:

Quoting Saintsman (Reply 16):
Unfortunately I'm unaware of the history behind this attack. What were the Americans doing to cause Japan to strike in the first place?

Please note this is not a USA bashing question.

In the late 1920s Japan was defacto taken over by an ultranationalist military junta, which declared that it ruled in the emperor's name, through political assasinations (often caried out by Yakuza gangsters) and pressure on opposition politicians (who were arrested by a "thought police", killed or imprisoned). The aim of the junta was build up a colonial empire, mostly centered around Korea, Taiwan, Mandshuria and the raw meterials rich regions of northern China. They also had an eye on eastern Siberia.
China at this time was embroiled in civil war with several warlords and considered weak, as was the early Soviet Union. Korea and Taiwan were already occupied since the early 20th century.

In the mid 1930 Japan, which as a WW1 winning power had a share in the administration of the multinational city of Shanghai, staged a faked attack on a Japanese train and used this as a pretext to declare war on China (quite similar to the fake attack on a German radio transmitter close to the Polish border by German troops dressed in polish uniforms, which gave the pretext of Hitler's invasion of Poland).
Japan found itself soon stuck in a prolonged guerilla war and reacted ultrabrutal (e.g. the Rape of Nanking). This caused the US government to take opposition to Japan in two ways:
1) a ban on Japanese immigration to the US, which was an important safety valve to the overpopulated Japanese islands (Interestingly most Japanese immigrants to the US firmly supported the US in WW2 and, after initial internments, volunteered in big numbers to join the US forces, the Nissei Battalion, made up of ethnic Japanese soldiers prooved itself fighting in Italy against the Germans).
2) An embargo of American oil and scrap steel.

Since Japan has no oil of it's own, the boycott was soon felt, especially the Japanese Navy was increasingly being immobilised due to lack of fuel.
So the Japanese government started eying the oil fields in the then Dutch colony of Indonesia. To get them and to clear the supply lines back to Japan the British colony Malaysia (which also housed the largest rubber plantations in the world back then) and the American colony of the Philippines were in the way. Especially the US could reinforce the Philippines using the battleships based in Pearl Harbor and from the Philippines attack the Japanese forces on the way to Indonesia. So to secure the lines of communication for an invasion of Indonesia, both the British and Americans had to go.
Simultanious with the attack on Pearl Harbor, the Japanese attacked Hong Kong, Singapore and the Philippines.
In the beginning the Japanese could count on anti European and anti white feelings in the population of the South East Asian countries, which evaporated fast when it was seen that the Japanese were much more brutal than the original colonial powers.
The biggest mistake the Japanese made in Pearl Harbor was that they attacked the American battleships, but missed the aircraft carriers, which were just out of port on an exercise. These aircraft carriers later gave the Japanese Navy a heavy blow at Midway and finally stopped Japanese expansion southwards in the Battle of the Coral Sea north of Australia.


Jan


User currently offlineBwest From Belgium, joined Jul 2006, 1366 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2871 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 13):
Not to nitpick further but...Japan attacked Chinese forces near Beijing on July 7, 1937 with forces staged in Manchuria, which itself had been occupied since 1931. The war in Asia was quite long.

Depends ofcourse how you define the second World War...

Usually the term is applied to the war between the Axis forces and the Allied forces. When the Japanese Empire invaded China, it wasn't part of the Axis forces yet, as they only became a "member" in 1940. There was also little or no official reaction to the invasion, and there was no formation of an Allied army to help the Chinese.

When Germany invaded Poland in 1939, the international reaction did come, with France and Britain (and some former British Colonies) declaring war on the Axis forces (at that time only Nazi Germany & Italy), though those Allied forces couldn't (or didn't want to) sent troops in time to assist the Polish forces.

The US congress choose to remain "neutral", though as of 1941 they did assist Britain with financial and materiel support.



I love my Airport Job! :)
User currently offlineSaintsman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 2065 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2871 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 17):



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 18):

Good stuff. Thank you


User currently onlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13965 posts, RR: 63
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2868 times:

BTW, in 1937 the Japanese made several attempts to invade Siberia from China, but received very bloody noses from Soviet troops lead by a General Chukov. This severe beating caused the Japanese not to invade Russia from the East on Hitler's request in 1941, which in turn enabled Stalin to free the Siberian troops guarding the Chinese border to use them to stop the German advance on Moskow.General Chukov later became a Field Marshall and was later know as the man who led the forces which captured Berlin.

Jan


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8021 posts, RR: 26
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2863 times:

Excellent synopsis Jan.

The nisei soldiers of the 442nd infantry you refer to were the most highly decorated US unit in the European theater. It has been well established that their dedication and resolve stemmed from protest against the US government's internment of nisei citizens.

Among other Japanese mistakes early on, they not only didn't destroy the existing US carriers, they failed to develop a sizable fleet of their own. Early war planners in the Japanese navy insisted on the completion of marquee battleships Yamato and Musashi, both of which were well known internally to be nothing more than pork projects for naval shipbuilders well connected to the military junta. The lack of planning for the air war in the Pacific hampered any possibility of success from the outset.

There were a number of other interesting failings as well - in direct parallel to similar goings-on in Germany's mid-30s witch hunt against Jewish scientists, many of Japan's finest young engineering talent were forced into infantry service, robbing their scientific corps of many chances to further develop weapons technology that could have better aided the campaign.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently onlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13965 posts, RR: 63
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2857 times:

Generally the Japanese Navy was more open to new ideas than the Army which was completely stuck in medieval ideas.
Treatment of Japanese soldiers was bad, recruits got routinely beaten up by their NCOs and veteran comrades.
It was Japanese doctrine that the army on the march should live of the land, e.g. by looting , to keep logistics simple.
Japanese recruits often came under immense peer pressure in their combat units and often had to prove their willingness to unconditionally obey orders by e.g. bayonetting prisoners Japanese soldiers were treated badly and handed down this treatment to prisoners and civilians alike.

It is especially surprising, since in WW! the Japanese forces, as part of the Allies, were exemplry in obeying the Geneva Conventions.

Jan


User currently offlineStrasserB From Singapore, joined Nov 2005, 1541 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2857 times:

God bless your heros.
R.I.P.



Still, even in the most arid desert is an airport somewhere ...
25 Bwest : Befehl ist Befehl? If your commanders order you to respect the rules of the Geneva convention, a well trained soldier will do so. If your commanders
26 HPLASOps : A very sad day indeed, God Bless those who perished that day. But what's sadder was that atrocious film starring Ben Afleck about Pearl Harbor. You th
27 NAV20 : It was sheer luck that the carriers were off delivering aircraft to Midway, instead of in harbour, Aaron747. Given that the Strike Force sailed on 26
28 MD11Engineer : there were misconceptions within all involved countries, often bordering on racisim. I just watched a documentary about the sinking of HMS Prince of
29 Baroque : Indeed, all too long - but alas, later wars have been even longer. It was the oil embargo wot dun it! Which, once the torpedoes had been fixed, gave
30 MD11Engineer : But a war economy requires sacrifices from almost everyone in the population, e.g. no more consumer goods being manufactured, food and other goods be
31 Post contains links NAV20 : Inclined to agree, Baroque. But I also have tremendous respect for the way in which the US Navy, from a 'standing start' and minus the battleships on
32 Baroque : This is all very true, and in the end putting the economy on a war footing would not have helped the Third Reich except to last a little longer. But
33 Falcon84 : It's an event that Americans should never, ever forget, for a lot of reasons, the primary reason being not to forget the brave men who died that day a
34 MD11Engineer : Germany had hyperinflation in the years between the end of WW2 and the introduction of the Deutschmark. Hitler financed his war by running the money
35 Venus6971 : During the battle of Britain the turning point was when the Luftwaffe started to bomb London instead of keeping the attack on the RAF bases. That was
36 Baroque : The carrier groups were impressive and so was the speed of their development, but without oil tankers, the Japanese fleet was going nowhere. They wer
37 Baroque : The carrier groups were impressive and so was the speed of their development, but without oil tankers, the Japanese fleet was going nowhere. They wer
38 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Schoefield Barracks as well . . . I've seen them. Also force marched up Kole Kole Pass, a pass through the Wainae Mountains where some of the planes
39 Post contains links BMIFlyer : Yes, a very big salute to all those who fought in that battle. The BBC has this article..... http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...ember/7/newsid_349
40 CroCop : God Bless the Men who died for their country that day. Visiting Pearl is sad, but worth every moment once their.
41 Acidradio : Well, my grandpa decided to take the week off that week and marry my grandma. Their anniversary is Dec 3, 1941. His ship was the Ogallala. Everyone he
42 Post contains links Baroque : Sadly the Ogallala is still in trouble, unless you are in Nebraska! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala_Aquifer Nice to hear that his absence that
43 Sunking737 : One of my high school teachers was aboard the USS Nevada on that morning. All the history classes used to come to the JROTC area to hear him speak abo
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