Derico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4233 posts, RR: 13 Posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 929 times:
Even as a few governments want to restart 'Doha', including the US administration, it is now clear even to business journals like the FT, WSJ, AF, etc, that the failure of Doha is the official beginning of the end of the current era of globalization that began after World War II.
In Europe anti-globalization forces have taken deep roots in the last 10 years. In North America, there is far less appetite for free-trade, a huge turnabout considering 10 years ago the US scolded nations that were against free-trade as 'proteccionist and backwards'. Well, I guess they now like that label...
And the most important near-developed nations and the large emerging markets, no longer see in North America, Europe and Japan prosperous consumers to target, but declining economies with increasingly more irrelevance to them as more of their own populations become consumerist themselves.
In short, free-trade is dead at least for the next 10 years.
Good news, it had gotten way to warped.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
The last time global trade was diminished, it caused untold suffering around the world. It was called the 'Great Depression'. Read about it.
Quoting Derico (Thread starter): In North America, there is far less appetite for free-trade, a huge turnabout considering 10 years ago the US scolded nations that were against free-trade as 'proteccionist and backwards'. Well, I guess they now like that label...
Where did you pull that data out of?
Quoting Derico (Thread starter): And the most important near-developed nations and the large emerging markets, no longer see in North America, Europe and Japan prosperous consumers to target
OK, have China stop exporting to the US. What do you think will happen to China?
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 7771 posts, RR: 26 Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 911 times:
That is a very pessimistic view. Free trade is here to stay. There are set-backs but globalization will not be stopped just because the Doha talks failed.
The bigger thread to Globalization are political movements like you have in South America, with Chavez, Castro and that Bolivian guy hindering the developments. Castro is keeping his Cubans from participating in world trade for almost 50 years now, Chavez is ruining Venezuela by blindly spending oil money without investing into the future and Bolivia is going backwards because a romantic socialist makes the mistakes that have been proven wrong in easter Europe and whereever else it has been tried on human beeings decades ago.
Lula in Brasil is a perfect example of how things should work, he is pragmatic, understands that money does not grow on trees and does more for the poorer part of his people than monkeys like Chavez ever will.
Doha has proven that it is extremely difficult to get the whole world under one hat. The local economic zones like EU and NAFTA work extremely well, as does the trade between them. The process of Globalization will continue, it just takes more time.
Derico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4233 posts, RR: 13 Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 890 times:
Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 1): The last time global trade was diminished, it caused untold suffering around the world. It was called the 'Great Depression'. Read about it.
No, because a halt to globalization is not equal to a halt in TRADE.
Trade is good. Globalization is also good in the long run. But it had become the tool of huge corporations to just hike their profits astronomically, and workers all over the world, in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd world nations, saw their incomes stagnate.
Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 1): Where did you pull that data out of?
The US for example, has led the way in 'proteccionist' measures based on anti-dumping. Also, the number of business mergers 'under review' by the United States government is at an all time high pretty much, and several deals of foreign companies buying up US companies have been axed.
Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 1): OK, have China stop exporting to the US. What do you think will happen to China?
Of course the China depends on the United States for sure, but increasingly it and other countries can depend more on their own internal market, and not as much on 1st world consumers as time goes on.
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 2): Lula in Brasil is a perfect example of how things should work, he is pragmatic, understands that money does not grow on trees and does more for the poorer part of his people than monkeys like Chavez ever will.
Exactly, he is NOT a just blindly fall into free-trade person. That is exactly how it should be.
Brazil is not signing free-trade agreements left and right. Granted, for some countries that model works (UAE, Singapur, Chile), these are smaller nations with less amount of variety of industries to protect, and more service oriented. To them, free trade is mostly positive.
For other countries, free-trade is more negative than positive. One shoe does not fit all. Trade in general however is good and should be encouraged.
But the latest global trade talks were just an arm of corporations. So I see a slowdown in them as very positive.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
AndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 874 times:
Quoting Derico (Reply 3): For other countries, free-trade is more negative than positive. One shoe does not fit all. Trade in general however is good and should be encouraged.
This sentence sort of goes with what you try to say in your post, which is really nothing more of a rehash of the anti-globalization crowd. You say free trade is more negative for other countries, but it is good and should be encouraged. What gives?
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 7771 posts, RR: 26 Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 873 times:
What is even more important than Doha agreements is that countries grant their citizens the freedom to do business, the freedom to communicate, the freedom to transfer money, the freedom to import and export goods without bureaucratic obstacles in short, the freedom to participate in global trade.
PPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8492 posts, RR: 43 Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 838 times:
Quoting Derico (Thread starter):
And the most important near-developed nations and the large emerging markets, no longer see in North America, Europe and Japan prosperous consumers to target, but declining economies with increasingly more irrelevance to them as more of their own populations become consumerist themselves.
Chavez, is that you?
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
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