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Diesel Or Petrol Cars?  
User currently offlineTrvyyz From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1369 posts, RR: 10
Posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4531 times:

Which is better?
I like Petrol ones. For the same engine size, they are
Quieter,
more hp
faster
smoother
less maintanence
...

I've driven only some low tech diesel cars of India eg. ambassador,Indica, fiat uno
and i've heard praises about turbo diesels of german cars, are they really better than petro cars?

Just curious

84 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCosec59 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4526 times:

I have recently changed from a 2.0 litre petrol Mondeo to the 2.0 litre 130bhp turbo diesel. The diesel is far smoother, offers much better economy and is, believe it or not, quicker.

User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2598 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4512 times:

It's tough to say. Diesel cars are now better at fuel mileage (although the TDi Jetta I once rented wasn't all that impressive) and deliver a quite respectable amount of torque. OTOH they are very complex, lot of expensive technology employed, deliver less hp and despite of all efforts, are still bad on environment and use much heavier fuel (a part of better mileage comes from here).
Diesels are the european choice because of heavily taxed fuels and very often much lower tax on diesel.

Gasoline cars are usually simpler, environment friendlier, deliver more hp. With higher displacements and more cylinders they usually run quieter. This is why gasoline's are preferred in North America.

With some hi-tech gadgets we can have gasoline engines delivering some really respectable results. One of them would be a super-turbocharged VW engine, delivering 170 bhp from 1.4 l of displacement. The 2.0 l GM engine used in SKY Red Line delivers 260 bhp and 260 lbf of torque.


User currently offlineCPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4776 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4501 times:

When you have cheap fuel like you do in Canada, you will see few benefits to a Diesel. However try beating this rental car I had a few weeks ago:

-Vauxhall Vectra (about the same size as a Chevy Malibu)
-1.9L Turbo diesel (150PS)
-6 speed automatic transmission
-Carrying driver and three passengers + bags

Average mileage over the span of three weeks and 2400 miles (in hills, towns, major cities and motorways): 55 MPG imperial, 45 MPG US . Holding 75mph using cruise control on the motorway the car would get about 61mpg. Show me a petrol that can do that in the same size class.


User currently offlineTrvyyz From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1369 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4499 times:

Quoting CPDC10-30 (Reply 3):
Show me a petrol that can do that in the same size class.

I have no doubt that a same size diesel engine gives more mpg(kmpl) than a petrol. But I feel the comfort in a diesel is less and also its engine runs hotter and is also noisy.


User currently offlineCosec59 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4494 times:

Quoting Trvyyz (Reply 4):
But I feel the comfort in a diesel is less and also its engine runs hotter and is also noisy.

The diesel is smoother and more comfortable. Yes, the engine is louder when it's cold, but once it's warmed up and when on the move, you don't know it's a diesel.


User currently offlineTRVYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1369 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4485 times:

Quoting Cosec59 (Reply 5):
Yes, the engine is louder when it's cold

That brings me to the next question. How do you start a cold diesel engine? do you still have to electrically heat the engine for a minute before starting in the mornings?

Also, another thing about diesel, i never fully understood about the gear shifts(manual). ie,
Upshifting is done at higher speeds compared to a petrol and hence it takes longer to reach the top gear. Is it really required although i followed this way with diesels?


User currently offlineCosec59 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4482 times:

Quoting TRVYYZ (Reply 6):
That brings me to the next question. How do you start a cold diesel engine?

Turn the key like a petrol car.
The diesel has glow plugs fitted. In older models you had to wait until the glow plug light had gone out. These days it's much different. The only time you need to wait is if it's REALLY cold.

Quoting TRVYYZ (Reply 6):
Also, another thing about diesel, i never fully understood about the gear shifts(manual).

Same as a petrol car.

Quoting TRVYYZ (Reply 6):
Upshifting is done at higher speeds compared to a petrol and hence it takes longer to reach the top gear. Is it really required although i followed this way with diesels?

Diesels rev much slower than petrol engines. I would say that changeing gear is done at roughly the same time as petrol. I tend to change gear at around 2000rpm in order to maintain the turbo boost.


User currently offlineTRVYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1369 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4481 times:

Quoting Cosec59 (Reply 7):

Thanks for your replies. Very informative and updating for me.


User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39681 posts, RR: 75
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4477 times:

I like diesel cars a lot and wish that there were more availible here in the United States.
They last longer, get better fuel economy and can run on cooking grease.

I not a big fan of German cars but they are excellent when it comes to making small diesel motors.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineKay From France, joined Mar 2002, 1884 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4468 times:

Diesel is torquier, but you can't take it up the rpm's. It's also cheaper in miles per gallon.

So, small non-sporty cars can be ok with a diesel, because they already are crap euroboxes or whatheverboxes. Trucks are better as Diesel's too.

For drivers that require any refinement at all, a big petrol engine is what it takes.

Kay


User currently offlineKay From France, joined Mar 2002, 1884 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4465 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
I like diesel cars a lot and wish that there were more availible here in the United States.

I must say this is surprising for someone who usually praises classic american V8 cars..

Kay


User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2598 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4462 times:

Quoting CPDC10-30 (Reply 3):
Average mileage over the span of three weeks and 2400 miles (in hills, towns, major cities and motorways): 55 MPG imperial, 45 MPG US . Holding 75mph using cruise control on the motorway the car would get about 61mpg. Show me a petrol that can do that in the same size class.

Apparently GM has much better diesel engines now that some 6 years ago. I used to drive an Opel Astra B 2.0DLi. Wasn't the most powerful ever and the gas mileage was quite poor. I Compared to my own Suzuki Baleno, which is approx. a same size and had a slightly more powerful engine. The Suzuki's mileage was way better.

Your results are impressive. I drove my G6 to Space Coast and back this August. 4 passengers (including me), our bags. Average mileage 30 mpg. Even realizing that the car was basically brand new when we took off , the G6 is larger and heavier than the Vectra and the diesel is a heavier fuel, this difference in mileage is astonishing.
But still, this is Canada here. The only non-luxury cars with diesels around here are VW's. VW's are quite pricey around here. A diesel in the same size as the G6 (that would be the Passat) would cost almost 50% more than the G
6. There is no way on Earth to get this price difference back on fuel savings during the car's lifespan. Another problem is that our climate is colder around here. With weeks of temperatures around -25 deg Celsius you may get into some problems.


User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39681 posts, RR: 75
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4448 times:

Quoting Kay (Reply 11):
I must say this is surprising for someone who usually praises classic american V8 cars..

LOL! Big grin

Well petrol/gas engine econoboxes over here don't get milage that is significantly greater than a powerful V8. The diesels on the other hand does.
A petrol/gas powered econobox is a half-ass attempt at making a fuel efficient engine.
The only import I've ever owned was a 1980 Volkswagon Dasher diesel stationwagon. That car had excellent fuel economy.
If I were to ever buy a German car or a fuel efficient car, it would only be a diesel.

Now for fun cars to drive; meaning powerful, luxurious and stylish, I would only buy American!  yes 



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8442 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4447 times:
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I am now 6 months into my first diesel car and I don't think I could go back to petrol. I have a BMW320d, 6 speed manual, and it really is "sheer driving pleasure".

My previous car was a 320i 2.2 litre 6 cylinder 5 speed manual and it was a good drive until you tried to tow something. The diesel is a joy at this task, it will run all day in 6th at 140km/h and deliver fuel economy that most petrol cars can only dream of. The only time you know this is a diesel car is when stopped at a light or when you go to the filling station.

So far my best fuel consumption was 938km on 62.4 litres: just over 15km/litre or 6.6 litres/100km. This was mostly town driving with a long open stretch of about 300km.



After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4446 times:

Quoting Andz (Reply 14):
I have a BMW320d, 6 speed manual, and it really is "sheer driving pleasure".

The *20d of BMW is probably one of the best Diesel engines out there. It's really a pleasure to drive.

pelican


User currently offlineSky0000547 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2004, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4437 times:

Diesel cars are quick, very quick but that is only when you got going and the turbo spinning. I can't say they are smooth to drive. You either have power or no power and there is nothing in between. They do give you more miles for your money and could be very quick. Diesel engines tend to be more robust.

Petrol car are more refined and quieter. You don't get so much miles for your money though. But performance wise is much better than a diesel for a like for like capacity.


User currently offlineKay From France, joined Mar 2002, 1884 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4435 times:

What does it for me in Diesel cars is the lack of high rpm. You're just getting started and the engine wants the next gear.

Otherwise, they pull real good. Alot of torque.

Kay


User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39681 posts, RR: 75
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4435 times:

Any of you guys in German familiar with the BMW 2.4liter turbo diesel?

Here in the United States, that engine was availible in the 1984-1985 Lincoln Continental and Mark VII.
I wouldn't mind getting the Continental diesel.

http://www.4wheelz.net/makes/images/lincoln/1984_lincoln_continental01_e14e_big.jpg



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4428 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
Any of you guys in German familiar with the BMW 2.4liter turbo diesel?



Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
Here in the United States, that engine was availible in the 1984-1985 Lincoln Continental and Mark VII.

No, I'm neither into antiques nor one myself.  Wink

pelican


User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39681 posts, RR: 75
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4424 times:

1984 isn't old enough to be considered an antique.


Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4421 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
1984 isn't old enough to be considered an antique.

What is it than? Junk? Sorry, I wasn't serious. Although the car wouldn't be much younger than me...

pelican


User currently offlineKay From France, joined Mar 2002, 1884 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4421 times:

You must mean this:

Introduced in 1982, 2.4liter Diesel, and 86bhp.



We drooled over this 3 series for years, but sorry, only the 320i, 323i and 325i.

Kay


User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39681 posts, RR: 75
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4415 times:

Quoting Kay (Reply 22):
86bhp.

Only 86bhp?
YIKES!

That is not good for car that weights 1814 kilograms (4000 pounds)
I doubt the turbohcarger adds much.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8442 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4407 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Superfly (Reply 23):
Only 86bhp?
YIKES!

That is not good for car that weights 1814 kilograms (4000 pounds)
I doubt the turbocharger adds much.

That's the thing about diesel engines, the power is less relevant than the torque. My 320d weighing 1415kg makes 115kW but 330Nm torque and this is what gives it the edge over the petrol equivalent (320i, 110kW, 200Nm).

Acceleration (0-100km/h) and top speed are similar for both, although the acceleration of the diesel from 80 to 120km/h is 2 seconds better than the petrol. Add the better fuel consumption and the reduced emissions of the diesel and there isn't much point in buying the petrol version.



After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
25 Post contains images ManuCH : I'm a petrol engine fan when considering "small" engines (less than 3 liters or so). What I really dislike is the diesel engine noise of smaller engin
26 Superfly : Andz: Very true but the gas version of the Continenetal was a 5.0 V8 that put out 170hp and eventualy 220hp a few years later. I guess the whole point
27 Post contains images Dougloid : I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade but I'm a skeptic. I don't like things that smell bad and are noisy, whether they get great mileage or not. Di
28 Superfly : I guess I am an odd-ball. I like the smell and knocking sound of a diesel engine.
29 WildcatYXU : Well, we had two weeks of similar temperatures in Toronto in early 2004, my former boss was driving his wife's car for the whole 2 weeks, because his
30 Post contains images Aloges : Diesel all the way for me. I've driven far more Diesel cars and kms than petrol cars in the four-and-a-bit years I've got my licence. Most importantly
31 Dougloid : Compare to me the price of mogas to diesel fuel in your neck of the woods. Are they the same, or different? By how much?
32 Sky0000547 : No it doesn't. A diesel is never as fast as a petrol car. You are comparing a TURBO diesel with a NON-TURBO petrol even though they both have a 2L en
33 Post contains images Aloges : I knew living right next to a filling station might come in handy some day. The view out my window reveals: Benzin is standard, Super is premium, all
34 Andz : I compared two similar cars in my price bracket and picked the one that would do the job better. The fact that one has a turbo is immaterial. Correct
35 WildcatYXU : Holy cow! Two bucks (CDN) for a liter of gas? That's insane...
36 Post contains images Cosec59 : That's cheap. Try buying fuel in the UK
37 Sky0000547 : You were not comparing similar price bracket cars but against your 2L turbo diesel vs a 2L NASP petrol. But anyway with similar capacity a turbo dies
38 Andz : I said "in my price bracket". In this country the 320d is $41,880 and the 320i is $38,010 which is pretty close anyway. Even the 323i is cheaper than
39 Post contains images N243NW : You're not alone, Superfly. I'm also an odd-ball. From what I understand, the real obstacle holding back diesel sales in the U.S. is the fuel itself,
40 Post contains links and images Captaingomes : How's this for a diesel? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfcP8HaFhYw&mode=related&search= Slow and unrefined eh?
41 Post contains images Aerobalance : Right hand drive Diesel Grand Voyagers are the tits, Right 'birdie!
42 Post contains images TheSonntag : Try driving on the German Autobahn 2 from Dortmund to Berlin, and you will see how big Diesel BMWs, Mercedes and Audi dominate the left lane. The aver
43 TRVYYZ : I thought all diesel engines were direct injection even the old ones, I am not a mechanical engineer, so I'm not sure. From what I remember (studied
44 TheSonntag : Not quite. Until the 1990s, there were no injection pumps available which could produce a pressure high enough to inject directly into the cylinder.
45 TRVYYZ : Thanks. I understand now, before it was fuel injection but not direct.
46 Post contains images JJJ : In Russia they put some paraffin in diesel fuel because of this. That's not a big difference if you're driving an auto car, . However, if you want to
47 Dougloid : Well, I pulled out my copy of "Diesel and Other Internal Combustion Engines" by Howard E. Degler which was published in 1938. Quite a number of the e
48 Andz : According to BMW's specs, the Diesel versions are already more eco-friendly than the petrol engines. Some examples of CO2 emissions (g/km): 320i: 178
49 Post contains images TheSonntag : Indeed, direct injection Diesels were not necessarily an invention of Audi, the technology was used for bigger Diesel engines much earlier already. T
50 Post contains links and images Aer Lingus : A comparison table between petrol and diesel (engine capacity, Co2, & Fuel consumption) with 120g/km Co2 or less. Notice the size of the petrol cars a
51 Dougloid : Diesel is about 25 per cent higher than 89 octane E10 (ten per cent ethanol) which is about $2.14 per gallon today. Why that should be is beyond me b
52 Post contains images Dougloid : Hmmmm....I was at a machine and tool company in Chesaning Michigan about 24 years ago that was producing diesel injector nozzles by electro discharge
53 Luxair : Since short Im a proud owner of a A6 2.7 V6 TDI and I can assure you that the engine is very quiet and has not at all the sound of a Diesel! A friend
54 Airplanepics : I've just purchased a 2006 Fiesta Zetec-S TDCi, with the 1.6 Turbo Diesel Peugeot engine. I will never go back to a petrol car. I'm averaging 52 mpg (
55 Cfalk : Actually, diesels are simpler than gasoline engines. There is no ignition system needed. On the other hand, nearly all modern diesels are turbocharge
56 Dougloid : that sounds like an opinion to me.
57 Post contains images Cfalk : It is. But look at the evidence. Power: There are a dozen European luxury cars with a lot more power than anything in production in the US. Audis, Me
58 Post contains images Jamie757 : Diesel convert here. I own two diesel cars, one is a VW Polo with a 1.4 TDi PD (75PS) engine, the other is a Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCi (130PS). Despite the
59 TheSonntag : Since I am no technician, I cannot give a serious answer on that. But according to the book I read which described the Diesel development ("Die Diese
60 Post contains images Aer Lingus : Too bad some newer diesel have a FAP or those filters things in the exhaust systems which collects the black stuff. Diesel cars without FAP filters a
61 Post contains links Dougloid : That is malarkey....sorry but there's no other word for that. No country has a monopoly on compression ignition design or engineering. Herr Diesel ne
62 Post contains images JJJ : Too bad the first TDI on the market was a Fiat
63 ABQ747 : That's true with Cadillacs and Chryslers. They still use cheap fake plastic wood trim. Newer Lincolns use much better materials and have better desig
64 L410Turbolet : I may be completely wrong but isn't that semi-solid gelly substance that agglomerates in diesel fuel in deep sub-zero substances actually parafin? I
65 JJJ : Well, paraffin is Brit-English for what merkins call 'kerosene'. The gellything is paraffin wax in the UK. So yes, I'm sure putting petrol into the m
66 Post contains links Dougloid : I think you could probably say with a fair degree of assurance that Toyota and Honda are American producers....at least with respect to the cars they
67 Cfalk : Yes, I mean the Big 3. Toyota and others are not American producers anymore than Philip Morris is a Russian company, just because they have a few fac
68 Dougloid : Well, I wish you'd included that in your dissertation....because it wasn't at all clear that's what you were talking about. Your criteria for 'what i
69 LOT767-300ER : Hardly a statement when you look at MacPherson struts (or coils for that matter of a fact) Funny that Porsche, Some Mercedez - Bens and all BMWs (exc
70 Cfalk : It's one thing to have the technology and put it into a car. It's quite another to fine tune it to where it performs as it should. It takes more than
71 Post contains images Superfly : LOT767-300ER: That's just Cfalk thinking with gut again. Just messing with you Cfalk. Seriously though, look at the 6.1 liter V8 that Chrysler oferes
72 JRowson : I've been really impressed by my VW Bora's 1.9TDI (130bhp). The only thing that annoys me is the turbo lag, but once it kicks in at 1500rpm it pulls h
73 Post contains images Cfalk : Hardly a mass produced car. Still a beaut, I agree. BTW, isn't it a British design? Seriously, if you look around the world, getting 100hp per liter
74 Post contains images TheSonntag : If you read my post you will see I was well aware of that... Unfortunately the FIAT management was too stupid to market their invention The Croma onl
75 WildcatYXU : Well, you're only 20% off (or 25% if you look at it from the other side). If your other statements are as accurate as this one...sorry dude...
76 Post contains images Superfly : Wow! That is the first I've heard of a 350 going out at such low milage. Perhaps you should have bought a Ford. Many of the newer generation Lincoln
77 Post contains images Duff44 : If you want to talk racing, this is diesel: as is this: I've never driven a diesel for any length of time, and don't know anyone who has. I'd try one
78 Cfalk : Viper RT/10 Production: 1992–1995 Body style: 2-door roadster Engine: 8.0 L V10 400 hp (298 kW) 450 ft·lbf (610 N·m) I see that they later increa
79 Post contains links WildcatYXU : Me neither. But I have kids who do. From the web: the Viper 8.3-litre (505 cubic inch) aluminum V10 engine generates an awesome 510 horsepower and 52
80 Post contains links Dougloid : Well, yes, but what we were talking about was one poster's assertion against all the evidence that Europe b/k/a Germany had a lock on high performanc
81 Post contains images JJJ : Marketing the first mass-produced TD car not revolutionary? Everything Audi did was jumping in the bandwagon a couple years later The first common-ra
82 TheSonntag : It was, but unfortunately no one at FIAT did market it that way. My point is, while this was certainly a new, revolutionary engine, it was too weak w
83 Post contains images JJJ : But we're talking technological leaps here, not commercial success. Fiat has a long history of technologic achievement followed by commercial failure
84 Andz : I drove from Cape Town to Johannesburg on Wednesday in my BMW 320d, pulling a trailer with my motorcycle on it. 12 hours 20 minutes at an average spee
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