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US Pennies Worth More As Metal Than Money  
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4453 times:

The US Mint has banned the melting down or bulk exporting of its metal based currency because the metals they are made up of are now worth more on the open market than the face value of the currency.

US pennies cost 1.73 cents to manufacture, and nickles cost 8.74 cents. Pre 1982 pennies are worth over 2 cents on the metal market.

You risk a $10,000 fine and up to 5 years in prison for violating the ban.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/14/bu...html?_r=1&ref=business&oref=slogin

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQXatFAT From Israel, joined Feb 2006, 2404 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4440 times:

This might have been mentioned on here before but I dont know remember when.

But anyways, IMO I think that pennies and nickles should leave the market and have all prices be round off to the nearest 10 cents. Lets say something right now costs $7.54 then the cost should be $7.50 but thats just my opinon. To me, it makes no sense to continue to manufacture these small coins when hardly anyone even cares about their pennies. You see them on the ground a lot and the first thing thrown into water.



Don't Tread On Me!
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4425 times:

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 1):
have all prices be round off to the nearest 10 cents.

Bad idea!
Do you think anyone would ever round DOWN?
Who would it hurt most? (hint: certainly not the rich)

Copper pennies have other metals in them as tagants. If you melt them down expect to be busted.

All denominations up to twenty dollars should be coins. Perhaps with chips in them.

That would leave only fifties (which could easily be discontinued) and hundreds in general circulation. The blind could then tell denominatons - paper is $100



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineQXatFAT From Israel, joined Feb 2006, 2404 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4421 times:

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 2):
Do you think anyone would ever round DOWN?

Well it would be the same for when they round up. It is almost like it is becoming even. Some are rounded up and some are rounded down. So how does it favor just one side?

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 2):
All denominations up to twenty dollars should be coins.

Well I dont know if that would really be a good idea at all. You ready to carry around your coin purse now for everything? That is a lot of weight to be carryed around in ones pocket just so they can carry around some $1, $5, $10 coins including the .1, .5, .10, .25, .50 coins already in circut.



Don't Tread On Me!
User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4670 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4406 times:

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 2):

All denominations up to twenty dollars should be coins.

I don't agree. I love the paper dollars when I'm in the US.



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4385 times:

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 2):
paper is $100

Nah..... Make them all coins.  Silly





Mark


User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4381 times:

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 2):
All denominations up to twenty dollars should be coins. Perhaps with chips in them.

Are you crazy? Have you ever been to the UK? After 20 minutes I'm carrying around a pocketfull of pound and two pound coins that weigh 10 lbs.


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4379 times:

Quoting Pope (Reply 6):
After 20 minutes I'm carrying around a pocketfull of pound and two pound coins that weigh 10 lbs.

Spend them as you go rather than pulling out a paper note for every transaction.

Mark


User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4356 times:

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 7):
Spend them as you go rather than pulling out a paper note for every transaction.

Shouldn't the same logic apply to the penny?


User currently offlineIlikeyyc From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1373 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4337 times:

I save my pennies and pick them up off the ground when I find one. I've probably got about 4 dollars worth in my car.

Zinc's melting point is 419 degrees C
Copper's melting point is 1084 degrees C
Nickle's melting point is 1455 degrees C

So its not like the average joe will go around melting pennies. Given the amount of energry needed to melt the metals, i would guess that the only way it would be profitable for someone is to do it is on a large scale.



Fighting Absurdity with Absurdity!
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4333 times:

Quoting Pope (Reply 6):
Have you ever been to the UK?

Yes and I left £21 and change in the tray at the security checkpoint at LGW on my way home. So I'm re-thinking the whole coin idea.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineCastleIsland From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4325 times:

I agree that pennies suck, but

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 1):
Lets say something right now costs $7.54 then the cost should be $7.50 but thats just my opinon.

Now go calculate tax on that. Choose whatever tax rate you want (other than zero, nice try  Wink ), and now try to figure out how to pay for it. Sure you could round the tax to the nearest dime, but that would make most ledger sheets burst into flames. Not to mention the heads of cashiers.


User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4670 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4320 times:

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 11):
Now go calculate tax on that. Choose whatever tax rate you want (other than zero, nice try Wink ), and now try to figure out how to pay for it. Sure you could round the tax to the nearest dime, but that would make most ledger sheets burst into flames. Not to mention the heads of cashiers.

which is why we have tax included...



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4317 times:

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 11):
Now go calculate tax on that. Choose whatever tax rate you want (other than zero, nice try Wink ), and now try to figure out how to pay for it. Sure you could round the tax to the nearest dime, but that would make most ledger sheets burst into flames. Not to mention the heads of cashiers.

Of course you could always switch to a saner method of doing your sales tax.

In the UK, its included in the sticker price, so the £17.99 you pay is really £15.31 plus 17.5% tax. Rounding that up to £18.00 would be trivial.


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8942 posts, RR: 40
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4293 times:

In other news, Coinstar's stocks collapse after news of the new lawtaking effect tomorrow. This followed by several quarters of unusual high profits  Smile



 Wink



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8942 posts, RR: 40
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4286 times:

Quoting JRadier (Reply 4):
I love the paper dollars when I'm in the US.

Me too!


-----

Why not make the penny a virtual-only denomination? Credit/debit cards, eletronic transactions, etc.

If the average Joe wants every single penny in retunr, let that guy carry around a card he can charge them to it. Or make an account at the store or bank.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3347 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4286 times:

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 1):

But anyways, IMO I think that pennies and nickles should leave the market and have all prices be round off to the nearest 10 cents. Lets say something right now costs $7.54 then the cost should be $7.50 but thats just my opinon. To me, it makes no sense to continue to manufacture these small coins when hardly anyone even cares about their pennies. You see them on the ground a lot and the first thing thrown into water.

Its estimated that eliminating the penny will cost Americans $60 million a year. I don't know what eliminating the dime would do.

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 13):
Of course you could always switch to a saner method of doing your sales tax.

In the UK, its included in the sticker price, so the £17.99 you pay is really £15.31 plus 17.5% tax. Rounding that up to £18.00 would be trivial.

I don't see what's insane about just adding on our tax. It should be fairly easy to add on the tax on in your head.

17.5% tax rate is what is insane. The highest I know of is New York at 8.5%. Delaware has a 0% tax rate and Pennsylvania is 6%, with no tax on clothing (excluding furs) and no tax on unprepared foods.

AAndrew


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4267 times:

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 16):
17.5% tax rate is what is insane

It replaces other taxes.

Mark


User currently offlineSpinalTap From New Zealand, joined Mar 2005, 440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4262 times:

New Zealand a few months ago phased out our 5c coin. We also use to have 1c and 2c coins but they were phased out exactly for this reason - they were worth less than their metal value and production cost. I think the 5c coin was removed as a cost saving procedure - fewer different coins would save on production costs - also you can't exactly buy anything with them. New Zealand has also reduced the size of all the 10c, 20c and 50c coins. They use to be huge and heavy.



The old coins have been sold to a company in South Korea to be melted down. The government is actually making money out of the process because the old coins are so much bigger and worth more than the new ones.

http://www.listener.co.nz/issue/3455/columnists/6623/coining_it.html
Some quoted from above link:

"The old 50-cent piece costs about 20 cents to make; its replacement will about cost about 3.5 cents." - the financial speak they have "seniorage"

There is actually a financial word for the difference in real and guaranteed value:
"The profit from the issuing of the undervalued currency is called "seigniorage". "

I guess this means the US penny has negative seigniorage  Smile

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 11):
I agree that pennies suck, but

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 1):
Lets say something right now costs $7.54 then the cost should be $7.50 but thats just my opinion.

Now go calculate tax on that. Choose whatever tax rate you want (other than zero, nice try ), and now try to figure out how to pay for it. Sure you could round the tax to the nearest dime, but that would make most ledger sheets burst into flames. Not to mention the heads of cashiers.

Thats one thing I think should be changed in the US - put all sales taxes in the price tag! NZ has a goods and services tax of 12.5% and this must be included in the price tag (when you purchase the amount of tax is displayed on the docket).

As to rounding, I was pleasantly surprised during recent Christmas shopping when something I bought was $7.55 and was rounded down to $7.50 when I payed in cash - I was always taught in school to round up "halfway" values  Smile



"I get what they call a stipend, a stipend is like money but its such as small amount they don't really call it money"
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4261 times:

If they got rid of the penny, what would become of all of those "Take A Penny, Leave A Penny" trays?

While the 1 Cent coin seems to be a bit anachronistic, just be glad we don't have all those other unusual small denominations in coins like we used to. Imagine if we still had half-cent, two-cent, three-cent, and twenty-cent coins.


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4252 times:

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 19):
Imagine if we still had half-cent, two-cent, three-cent, and twenty-cent coins

Don't forget half dimes.



User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4246 times:

I just "cashed" in 2000 pennies, amongst other coinage, today. I hate the penny. Get rid of it, round up or round down, like they do in Australia, and make do.

Wish the US would go to something like Hong Kong has, the Octopus card, which is unbelievably easy to use (unless you lose the card and then you are out the money, but then you are at fault for being careless - I digress).

Link here: http://www.octopuscards.com/consumer/en/index.jsp

Travelling as much as I do, I am exposed to many different ways currency is used and have many ideas on what to bring back here. Just wish more people here were open to the ideas.



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4670 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4246 times:

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 16):
17.5% tax rate is what is insane

19% here  Wink



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3347 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4234 times:

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 17):

It replaces other taxes.

Such as what other taxes?

Quoting SpinalTap (Reply 18):

Thats one thing I think should be changed in the US - put all sales taxes in the price tag! NZ has a goods and services tax of 12.5% and this must be included in the price tag (when you purchase the amount of tax is displayed on the docket).

Once again, I don't see the problem in not having it on at the beginning.

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 21):
I just "cashed" in 2000 pennies, amongst other coinage, today. I hate the penny. Get rid of it, round up or round down, like they do in Australia, and make do.

So that's $200. Might not be that much to you, but some elderly relatives of mine that have lower incomes take the $40 or $50 they save up in pennies every year and use it to pay the heating bill.

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 21):

Wish the US would go to something like Hong Kong has, the Octopus card, which is unbelievably easy to use (unless you lose the card and then you are out the money, but then you are at fault for being careless - I digress).

Link here: http://www.octopuscards.com/consumer/en/index.jsp

Travelling as much as I do, I am exposed to many different ways currency is used and have many ideas on what to bring back here. Just wish more people here were open to the ideas.

Never been to Hong Kong, but what makes this card different than a prepaid MasterCard or Visa?

http://www.metabankonline.com/Main.a...nance.ProductsServices.PrePaidGift

Quoting JRadier (Reply 22):

19% here

Ouch.

AAndrew


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4226 times:

Every country that has a VAT uses the money for different things. A VAT in the USA would/could be used to offset the school funding portion of property taxes. Rather than putting the screws to property owners alone, everyone would pay a fair share regardless if they're owners, renters, boarders, or moochers.

Mark

[Edited 2006-12-15 02:05:30]

25 Pacificjourney : Your profile says you're a student, please nothing life saving .... 2000 x 1 cent = ............ somebody please ......
26 Post contains images Jpax : 2000 cents!
27 Post contains images Aa757first : I cannot believe I typed that. Of course, 2,000 pennies are equals $20. Don't worry, I'm only pre-med. Just kidding... AAndrew
28 Srbmod : I left it off the list since the half dime was made redundant by the five cent piece (AKA the nickel).
29 Post contains images SpinalTap : priceless (excuse the pun), so much for adding the tax in ones head BTW do know the sales tax in every state?
30 Post contains images EWRCabincrew : It is different in the aspects such as: There is no 'credit' attached to it. You can't use it to guarantee a room at a hotel, per se, like a Visa. Yo
31 Post contains links Aa757first : No, I don't. It varies state to state. Like I said, I think New York is the highest with 8.5%. Delaware I know is the lowest, no sales tax at all. He
32 Post contains links Ilikeyyc : Not only does it vary from state to state, but it varries from county to county and city to city. Chicago is actually the highest at 9% http://www.he
33 N1120A : Sure, but it often presents itself as a problem as cash transactions happen less often, which then clutters pockets for linger. Meanwhile, property t
34 SpinalTap : " target=_blank>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_t...tates Exactly my point, how are you suppose to calculate the sales tax if you don't know the ra
35 Ilikeyyc : Wow! I agree that some foods should not be taxed, but unnecessary items such as potato chips and twinkies should be taxed! I think by not displaying
36 EWRCabincrew : Where are the Aussie's to fill us in on how they enjoy the rounding up/down since the 1 and 2 cent coins were taken out of circulation?
37 EmiratesA345 : In Canada, all new circulation bills have brail in the upper right corner. Mark
38 Btriple7 : That makes absolutely no sense. There is no such thing as a "virtual-only denomination." By your definition ever value of money would be a "virtual-o
39 AirframeAS : When I was in jr. high, I tried to melt a few pennies in our metal shop in the aluminum melter. It didnt work...didn't melt. oh SNAP!
40 Cadet985 : Philadelphia, PA is 7%, as is New Jersey - new tax law passed a couple of months ago. Marc
41 PPVRA : Ok, fine. It wouldn't be a "penny" anymore. Just 0s and 1s. But so what? I think it's better than rouding up or down to 5 cents. Next you know we'll
42 L-188 : One of the reason silver dollars are so rare now is that back in the late 70's when silver prices spiked, a lot of them got melted down.
43 Post contains images Dougloid : Well, I think it's about time we had something to make money off the government with...I mean, paper money isn't worth what it's printed on, the BoP&E
44 Post contains images AsstChiefMark : Mom says they sucked big time. Mark[Edited 2006-12-17 06:13:59]
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