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Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa  
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2508 times:

This type of statement always gets me,

"They had to execute him twice," Mark Elliot said. "If Floridians could witness the pain and the agony of the executed man's family, they would end the death penalty"

And what about the victim that this person killed. I think it is karma!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-12-14-florida-execution_x.htm


You can cut the irony with a knife
124 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8766 posts, RR: 42
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2500 times:

Before we get to the scheduled flame fest about the death penalty, I'd like to say "May he rest in peace." The sentence was carried out, so there's nothing left the murderer couldn't have "paid" for.


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineSprout5199 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1855 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2492 times:

Should have used old sparky.




Dan in Jupiter


User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2481 times:

Let me preface this by noting that I'm no soft on crime, left wing liberal.

But from what I understand of the facts, the case against this guy was completely circumstantial. There were no witnesses that identified him doing this and the chief piece of evidence in the case was supposedly the testimony of his ex-girlfriend claiming that he admitted the killing to her. While technically the admission falls under an exception to the hearsay rule, it is pretty weak.

The guy also went to his grave proclaiming his innocence. He did not eat his last meal and never waivered in his claim that he simply didn't do this.

Now, I'll admit that everything I know about this case comes from the article in this morning's newspaper but I fear that the state may have killed an innocent man. To have done that is bad enough, but if he had to suffer for 30 minutes . . .

Given the proven error rate in capital cases, I think that the state has no business killing people. While capital punishment satisfies our basic eye for an eye sense of fairness, it doesn't reduce crime rates, it doesn't save taxpayers any money and it highlights all the failure of our criminal justice system. It discriminates against the poorest, least educated and minorities.

Rich white people simply don't end up on death row.

I really hope that the state got this right because if not, then a poor man was killed by his state in a cruel and unusual manner.


User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2472 times:

Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 2):
Should have used old sparky.

Damn Skippy! Screw those hippy liberals who bitched and moaned that Old Sparky was cruel and unusual punishment. It got the job done quickly and didn't care if its occupant of the day had liver cancer.

Quoting Luv2fly (Thread starter):
"If Floridians could witness the pain and the agony of the executed man's family, they would end the death penalty"

Oh boo frickin' hoo. This "family" (and they did such a great job raising this loser) had 27 years more with their kid than his victim's family did. I have no patience or sympathy for these idiots.

I know those weren't your words Luv2Fly but that's the way this quoty thing works.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8766 posts, RR: 42
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2460 times:

Quoting Pope (Reply 3):

You're either stoned or I'm finding myself applauding that post for a reason.  thumbsup 



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2450 times:

Quoting Pope (Reply 3):
The guy also went to his grave proclaiming his innocence. He did not eat his last meal and never waivered in his claim that he simply didn't do this.

To be honest with you how many people in jail/prison claim they are innocent!



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8766 posts, RR: 42
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2446 times:

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 6):
To be honest with you how many people in jail/prison claim they are innocent!

There's one difference though: you can release and compensate an innocent person who was sentenced to a prison term. You can't do that with an innocent victim of the death penalty.

typo edit

[Edited 2006-12-14 22:34:26]


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineBushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2442 times:

Quoting Pope (Reply 3):
Rich white people simply don't end up on death row.

Such a true statement. Before the story loaded I told my co-worker, 10bucks says he is not white. Well what do you know, he is a Puerto Rican.

I dont have a problem with the death penalty as a principal. My problem is with the process.
Identify what crimes constitute that penalty.
Determine the correct amount of evidence is needed for that sentance.
Allow 1 appeal
Then give him the hotshot or whatever method one chooses.

This guy was on death row for 25 years or so. That is way to long.
Either we are going to have the death penalty or not. If yes, then it really should apply to everyone the same. That is simply not the case in this country.


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8766 posts, RR: 42
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2426 times:

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 8):
Either we are going to have the death penalty or not. If yes, then it really should apply to everyone the same. That is simply not the case in this country.

And that is never going to be the case. The higher the class an individual is in, the better is his network of personal connections to protect and benefit himself. It has always been like that, it will always be like that and it is our very nature. Humans want to live and will do everything to ensure they will, that's what comes first. Principles of democracy, equal rights and so on come after that.

It is only after you realise the limiting impact this has on equal opportunities that you can work to give them to people. So in light of that, the death penalty cannot ever be used 100% fairly, just like any other penalty. The point is that the death penalty cannot be made up for or mitigated.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineFlyingbabydoc From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2420 times:

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 6):
To be honest with you how many people in jail/prison claim they are innocent!

And how many of those actually are? More than enough to make a statistically significant difference in terms of trial and error.

As Aloges said, now there is no possibility to revert an unjust sentence, should that be the case. And executing a person is not such an easy task as many seem to think - the number of catastrophic failures and unnecessary suffering really raises the issue of whether it is even humane to proceed with such executions.

As for the family of the victims, an "eye for an eye" does not bring the beloved one back. Never did, never will.

Alex


User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2412 times:

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 6):
To be honest with you how many people in jail/prison claim they are innocent!

And are you 100% sure that they are all lying? You better be really sure because if you're sentencing a man to die, there is no remedy if you are wrong.

Take a look at this website http://www.innocenceproject.org/. It's proven that over 170 prisoners have been wrongly imprisoned for crimes they did not commit. This includes 17 sentenced to death.

We're not talking not guilty because they state didn't meet its burden of proof or not guilty because some legal technicality. We're talking about 17 people who didn't commit the crime they were sentenced to die for. I'm sorry but that's just an unacceptable error rate in my book.


User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2361 times:

Quoting Pope (Reply 3):
Rich white people simply don't end up on death row.

And rich black people dont end up in prison. (In reference to OJ Simpson here).

Quoting Luv2fly (Thread starter):
"If Floridians could witness the pain and the agony of the executed man's family, they would end the death penalty" (Quote from Article, not from Luv2fly)

And if Floridians would witness the pain and agony on the faces of familes of the victims, they would probably stop caring about the pain of the accused.

Quoting Flyingbabydoc (Reply 10):
As for the family of the victims, an "eye for an eye" does not bring the beloved one back. Never did, never will.

Well, let's be honest. Keeping 'em around in prison doesn't either, so why waste the time and money doing so? Why the hell should we value their life when they obviously didn't value someone else's?

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 8):
Either we are going to have the death penalty or not. If yes, then it really should apply to everyone the same. That is simply not the case in this country.



Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 8):
I dont have a problem with the death penalty as a principal. My problem is with the process.
Identify what crimes constitute that penalty.
Determine the correct amount of evidence is needed for that sentance.
Allow 1 appeal
Then give him the hotshot or whatever method one chooses.

 checkmark 
Makes sense to me.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2344 times:

Quoting Luv2fly (Thread starter):
And what about the victim that this person killed. I think it is karma!

Oh you kidding the victim always is forgotten by these liberal wimps, as is the family. Who cares how many times it took. I would have used a gun. Lot quicker and cheaper.

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 8):
Such a true statement. Before the story loaded I told my co-worker, 10bucks says he is not white. Well what do you know, he is a Puerto Rican.

This is a stupid statement, what does his race have to do with it? Was Ted Bundy Puerto Rican or Black? John Wayne Gacy? Dahmer? Come on, all races kill dude. Not just Hispanic or Black.


User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2342 times:

Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 2):
Should have used old sparky.

 checkmark 

Or drag his ass out in the middle of West Texas and let some of the "locals" take care of it all.

Bingo....saved the state some money.



Crye me a river
User currently offlineATCT From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2349 posts, RR: 38
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2328 times:

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 14):
Or drag his ass out in the middle of West Texas and let some of the "locals" take care of it all.

Bingo....saved the state some money.

Exactly. Dont mess with Texas.

Firing Squads are the most efficient. Couple pieces of lead to the brain will do the trick every time.

ATCT



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2326 times:

I think the posts on this thread clearly demostrate what's wrong with the death penalty.

I'll bet that all of you who said, let's use old Sparky aren't even familiar with the facts of this case. Therefore, you're blindly accepting the conclusion of a judicial system that has been demonstrated to be wrong time and time again. I simply don't understand how people can so easily say, let's kill the guy without even discussing the possibility that his conviction was wrong.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 12):
And rich black people dont end up in prison. (In reference to OJ Simpson here).

Of course there are exceptions but for every rich black guy who gets off, there are many more who are wrongly convicted.

Perhaps we should ask the question this way, how many millionaires (regardless of race) have been executed in the United States?


User currently offlineBushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2316 times:

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 14):
Or drag his ass out in the middle of West Texas and let some of the "locals" take care of it all.



Quoting ATCT (Reply 15):
Exactly. Dont mess with Texas.

Gentlemen, you have just confirmed my previous thoughts on most people from Texas. Thanks.
Would now be a good time to point out this case was in FLA?

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 13):
This is a stupid statement, what does his race have to do with it? Was Ted Bundy Puerto Rican or Black? John Wayne Gacy? Dahmer? Come on, all races kill dude. Not just Hispanic or Black.

I know this, my post was in reference to just how lopsided the amount of minorities are on death row. It is widely published that minorities in population make up the far majority on death row.
You mention Ted Bundy, a high profile case, with many victims, and he is a psycho path, with solid evidence against him.
This guy doesnt have credible evidence against him. If under the same situation the defendant was white, I would bet $$$ he wouldnt be given the death penalty.


User currently offlineQueso From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2316 times:

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 14):
Or drag his ass out in the middle of West Texas and let some of the "locals" take care of it all.

You talkin' to ME?


User currently offlineNeilYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2313 times:

Quoting Pope (Reply 16):

Perhaps we should ask the question this way, how many millionaires (regardless of race) have been executed in the United States?

How many millionaires commit crimes which fall under the scope of the death penalty? I personally don't know, but I'm sure that the percentage of murderers who are millionaires is fairly small. It's not how many, it's what's the percentage of murderers that are millionaires that get executed compared the the percentage of murdering non-millionaires who get executed.

And yes, if millionaires murder someone they should be executed just like everyone else, I'm just not familiar with the stats myself.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13200 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2252 times:

There are several problems with this case:
The questionable witness evidence, presented several years after the alleged crime was committed.
The quality (or probable lack of quality) of legal counsel. I bet this guy had some very poorly paid public defender and with no real money to do the defense needed to assure a fair and through defense. That is especially true far too often when the death penalty is a possibility.
The excessive delay in carrying out the execution. This guy sat on death row for 20+ years. If the case was that strong against him to justify the death penalty, then it should have been carried out within a few years of the sentence. Tolling the time of the execution so many years is possibly cruel too, especially if there are questions of their degree of guilt or innocence.
There has been a number of questions raised about the use of chemical/drug injection for executions, including the US Constitutional ban on 'cruel and unusual punishments'. The way this execution went will probably become Exhibit #1 of future appeals to the US Supreme Court as to Death Penalty sentences and on the cruelty grounds.


User currently offlineBagpiper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2242 times:

Quoting Pope (Reply 3):
Rich white people simply don't end up on death row.

Here we go again!

Ever thought that maybe rich white people statistically don't commit murders as often?

Here where I live, the county police force is being "repremanded" by the US gov't because 70% of the inmates in prison are either hispanic or black. They call that profiling. Now, last time I checked, there were three races. White, Black, and Asian (forgive me if I called any of them by their politically-uncorrect name). There is no 4th hispanic race. Yet, when hispanics are in prison, they count as a different race. But I got sidetracked.

So this county police force is being repremanded for profiling when responding to crimes. wtf?? I listen to the local 911 and police radios online, and most crimes, if the 911 operator is giving a description of the suspect, is "black male" or "hispanic male". Sure, there are still plenty of "white male" or even "white female", but the majority are black or hispanic.

I have witnessed several crimes in person, too. Most of them shoplifters running through the parking lot. Out of the 5 or 6 I have seen, only 1 was a white male.


Now I'm not saying white people don't commit crimes. I'm not saying hispanics or blacks are more "evil-minded", or anything of the sort. I'm just saying that in what I have seen with my own eyes, (not by listening to biased news reports) I have seen more minorities commit crimes.

I'm guessing the shoplifters were rather poor people, and therefor shoplifted. Around me, most of the lower income people are hispanics and blacks. Why is that? Well that is a whole 'nother can of worms, which I won't go into here.


Anyways, my 2 cents.


User currently offlineOlegShv From Sweden, joined Mar 2006, 683 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2235 times:

This is what gets me. All those conservatives supporting the death penalty in the United States are also usually hardcore Christians (or at least they claim to be such). One of the big ideas in Christianity is forgiveness, but they seem to never be able to forgive themselves. So that raises the question: are they realy who they claim they are?

User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2221 times:

Quoting OlegShv (Reply 22):
This is what gets me. All those conservatives supporting the death penalty in the United States are also usually hardcore Christians (or at least they claim to be such). One of the big ideas in Christianity is forgiveness, but they seem to never be able to forgive themselves. So that raises the question: are they realy who they claim they are?

Well I for one support the death penalty and am very far from being a so called "hardcore Christians" In fact I am one of the minorities that the Christians usually hate the most, GAYS!



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12281 posts, RR: 35
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2221 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Bagpiper (Reply 21):
White, Black, and Asian (forgive me if I called any of them by their politically-uncorrect name).

I believe the correct terminology is Caucasoid, Negroid, and Mongoloid  Smile At least that's what I learned in my "Policing in a diverse society" class.

Other than that, I agree with every word of your post  Smile



“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
25 Post contains images Mir : Well put. -Mir
26 Lapa_saab340 : Couldn't say that better man. They'd be singing a different tune if they or one of their loves one was wrongfully convicted. One innocent man killed
27 Sprout5199 : I dont care about the facts in this case. The man was found GUILTY by a jury of his peers and sentenced to death. Now people are complaining that the
28 Mir : It is highly disturbing to me that you would support the execution of a person without caring whether they actually deserved it. -Mir
29 Sprout5199 : And it is disturbing to me that you think everyone that proclaims their innocence actually is. I guess I have more faith in our legal system with all
30 Adopim88 : Well, I just finished a class called Introduction to Minority Cultures. I'm sure they consider hispanics to be a seperate race because they are one o
31 Aloges : Where the hell did he say that? People said there had been too many doubts in this case for them to be less uncomfortable with the sentence, and you'
32 Pope : Did you look at the link I posted related to the innocent project? ALL of those people were found guilty and 17 of them were sentenced to death. All
33 SlamClick : And your chances of being murdered by a rich white person are just about nil.
34 Itsjustme : Please either insert an "IMO" in this statement or provide some source(s) to back up your claim. How many millionaires (regardless of race) have comm
35 Aloges : True, the Ken Lays of this world have different means to ruin your life.
36 57AZ : No. It's just an example of gross incompetance on the part of the prison staff. There is absolutely no reason that the administration of the proper d
37 Post contains links Pope : And now the State of Florida admits that there was a problem with the execution. http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/12/15/diaz.execution.ap/index.html
38 Pope : I did, see post #11 in this thread. A link to an organization that has exhonorated (not through technical legal issues but by a showing of actual inn
39 GEG : Wow...I need to tell my reletives!!!
40 Post contains images Mir : Thanks for putting words in my mouth. Just because somebody says they're innocent doesn't make it so, and I never claimed otherwise. But I do have a
41 Sprout5199 : I do see your point, but I don't know how to make a perfect system. Is it better to let 100 guilty go to prevent 1 innocent from being wrongly punish
42 LTBEWR : " target=_blank>http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/12/15/di....html This and other news says that Gov. Jeb Bush (don't forget, the brother of President Bush)
43 Lucky42 : I absoulutely agree with this statement..I used to be a solid fan of the death penalty...But I don't exactly trust law enforcement either. When the p
44 Iamcanadian : Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that so everyone involved in the firing squad (ie. the shooters) can just say "Mine had a blank" and not feel the
45 NeilYYZ : That's what I've heard the intention is.
46 Pope : Because the result of a false positive is so dramatic (the person ends up dead) I think that the Supreme Court should impose a requirement that due p
47 Euclid : I do not think that is correct. From what I've read, only one gun has a blank cartridge loaded, the rest have live rounds. Imagine if the only person
48 777236ER : The sad thing is that it tends to be right wing 'small state' proponents who accept the state killing innocents as collatoral damage.
49 ME AVN FAN : Beside the point that I am against the death penalty anyway, it looks as if those who organized the execution were incompetent and careless. But most
50 SlamClick : Cruel and unusual punishment - for the people who have to clean it up. Except for those firing squads in the service of Fidel Castro's "peoples' revo
51 Post contains images TPAnx : TPAnx
52 Basas : There are more Whites executed per capita than any other race so the race card some of you are trying to play isn't going to work.
53 Pope : How many of those are rich? Perhaps a couple classes in reading comprehension would do you some good.
54 Duff44 : Agreed completely... The death penalty is the only sentence you can't overturn once carried out.
55 JAGflyer : They did they not have a compitent doctor doing the injections? The way he had to suffer is not exceptable. Its lethal injection, its meant so you DON
56 Post contains images Turbo7x7 : Putting the death penalty controversy aside (as a religious liberal, I'm against both capital punishment AND abortion), I think it's a huge embarrassm
57 Baroque : Well posted Pope and I am pleased to see you attracted wide support. Obviously all Christians do not support capital punishment, but there does seem
58 Pope : He's got about two weeks left in office. Nobody in Florida is blaming W for this.
59 DeltaGator : Rigghhttt...There is a big difference between legal trouble because you gave your make believe ex-girlfriend a snowglobe and killing someone you don'
60 TPAnx : Doctors take the Hippocratic oath.."first, do no harm." So technically, anyway, doctors can not take part in an execution. As I understand it, they d
61 ME AVN FAN : the right for appeal of course is to be respected, BUT to have that thing going on for more than 2 decades is incredible and unacceptable.
62 Pope : Take the time to read the stories of the true stories of people who have lived on death row for 10+ years only to be eventually exhonorated completel
63 Basas : What part of that statement says rich again? Oh right...its not in there. Those reading comprehension classes you were talking about...maybe its you
64 Pope : Don't get cute and distort the facts here. You responded in post 52 to my statement "RICH WHITE PEOPLE ..." Therefore monetary position was at issue.
65 Basas : I guess the confusion came from the fact that I wasn't simply referring to your post (though it was the only one that was quoted). I had read a numbe
66 ME AVN FAN : indeed THE difficult thing about it. But if it takes 26 years, it could take 50 years as well. The remaining uncertainty is one of the reasons to abo
67 57AZ : Correct. From all accounts of the execution of Gary Gilmore, that was the way it was carried out IIRC. Incidentally, as of 2004 Utah banned the use o
68 Itsjustme : You're assuming a physician is "doing harm" by carrying out the findings and corresponding sentence handed down by our judicial system. Personally, I
69 Pope : I believe the AMA has a formal policy on this that prohibits members from participating. This was an issue a year or two ago when the FL State Suprem
70 Post contains images MDorBust : BLACK 360 34% HISPANIC 69 6.6% WHITE 604 57.1% OTHER 24 2.3% Proof that the system is broken, or proof that it is workign in catching it's own mistak
71 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Totally irrelevent. Surprising for your LTBEWR. Cheap shots aren't usually your style. How do you qualify this? Small States? You mean like Rhode Isl
72 Post contains images Luv2fly : Monday and I agree with this guy, what kind of week am I in for!
73 777236ER : You don't understand. The right wing are advocates of having a small state with a small 's'. They're the ones who want low taxes, low government intr
74 Dougloid : Frederick Daye of this city served sixteen years in a California prison for a rape he did not commit. He insisted he did not commit the crime, but of
75 Luv2fly : Everyone in prison would tell you that they are innocent!
76 ANCFlyer : As I said, a serious reform of the laws/sentencing. For death penalty cases - and I've said it before - absolutely NO doubt must remain . . . . curre
77 MDorBust : I've never met an advocate of small government that suggested law enforcement isn't a government function. Wait, on second thought I have... but they
78 777236ER : But this discussion isn't about law enforcement as a concept, it's about the death penalty. Advocates of small government who support the death penal
79 MDorBust : Punishing offenders is part of law enforcement. Umm, why would we want to get around that fact? I think it's a pretty much accepted fact that the dea
80 ME AVN FAN : - No, the process is so lengthy because of the slow procedures of the process. That a defendant is not to give up for free is clear. - - in short, th
81 AA787823 : Would'nt that depend on individual state laws? If someone confesses, and there was no witnesses would'nt the confession be enough? Then if there is a
82 Mir : A physician killing a person, or assisting in killing a person, is definitely doing harm to that person. I'd add to that that the jury must be unanim
83 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Ahhh, NOoooooo. In short, the law/sentencing guidelines must be revised. It's a simple concept really MAF, even for you Yes, each state has their own
84 Pope : The innocent project isn't part of the system. To the best of my knowledge it receives no funding from any governmental organization. Furthermore, th
85 Luv2fly : Could it be as those poorer people tend to commit more crimes! Thus they are guilty for committing a CRIME! Or do we forgive them and give them a get
86 ME AVN FAN : simple it may be, but wrong it is -
87 Post contains links MDorBust : Unless they effected jail breaks then at some point were pardoned of their crimes after the jail break, at some point in time the system overturned t
88 ANCFlyer : Opinion dear MAF, only an opinion . . .
89 ME AVN FAN : - maybe, just as the death penalty is not a solution but an obsession and a fixed idea -
90 Pope : If the privately funded project didn't exist, these people would likely end up being killed by the state for a crime they didn't commit. If you want
91 ANCFlyer : Again, opinion MAF, only your opinion . . .
92 MDorBust : But they do. That they do exist is to the benefit of the system. It's all part of the system. So is the *shudder* ACLU. (insert necessary evil quip h
93 Pope : Tell that to the untold number of people wrongly executed before this project came into existence. I wonder if they think the system needs fixing? Wr
94 Dougloid : And why do you think either of those fellows is not credible on this point of information? Who would you have me ask? David Duke? Now..about appeals,
95 ME AVN FAN : opinion YES, but not only my opinion. While the pro-death thing also is just an opinion, and nothing else. - MY opinion btw. is official guideline of
96 MDorBust : All their cases are a matter of public record. Why don't you name for me one of the executed innocents? I assure you, organizations like the ACLU and
97 Post contains images Baroque : Broken, especially since those wrongfully executed do not have much chance of proving innocence. Indeed it is over STATED rather than rated, and plan
98 Post contains images MDorBust : Are all of his lawyers and all of the defense organizations going to be executed with him? I'm not exactly sure how the size of the government will i
99 Post contains images ANCFlyer : AN expert at this are you? DO you think your local coppers just happen to have a supply of someone's DNA hanging about at the ready? You've been watc
100 Pope : Are you saying that nobody in the history has ever been wrongly executed by the government (state or federal) in the US? That's laughable. I don't th
101 Post contains links Baroque : Touchy are we, or perhaps in your world it would be the coppers. As it happens, I was thinking of the person or persons who actually committed the cr
102 Baroque : As a Moderator you should perhaps be more careful with the flippant remarks. It happens that I have never watched CSI Miami, whatever that is. An apo
103 Post contains links Dougloid : With all due respect to Northwestern one has to take such laundry lists with a grain of salt. In the interests of coequal statements about what peopl
104 MDorBust : No, I'm not. In fact, prior to the death penalty reform in the 1970s there were several notable examples. What I will say though is that we do not ha
105 Pope : Please tell me what happened as a result of death penalty reform that miraculously eliminated the errors that existed before. Best I can tell, habeou
106 Baroque : Thanks Pope, it would be surprising if the Northwestern Law School were wrong on this, and it was their words that were being attributed to me. I thi
107 MDorBust : Sentencing standards were changed. 1. No mandatory death sentence 2. The implementation of the continuing harm/mitigating factors scale 3. Split the
108 Pope : And none of those go to the evidentiary standards that are leading towards conviction. A basic rule of appeals jurisprudence is that an appeals court
109 Post contains links ANCFlyer : Irrelevent. If you think that's flippant, that's too bad. I have an opinion, and if said opinion doesn't break the rules, then you'll just have to de
110 Baroque : 1. What bluff would that be? 2. Try reading what I wrote. Apparently you need me to use simpler words. A. I clearly distanced myself from your unfoun
111 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Exactly why the laws need to be reformed . . . simple DNA evidence is not sufficient. If the State is going to execute someone, they better have soli
112 Dougloid : Gurls, gurls don't get your bloomers in a knot for heaven's sakes... Ultimately any trial and guilty (or not guilty for that matter) verdict is about
113 MDorBust : No, they do not do anything in regards to evidentiary standards, but they do (especially the continuing harm/mitigating factors scale) help to ensure
114 ANCFlyer : Read the thread, I've already spelled it out. Here and in any other death penalty thread on this site. I'm not going to retake old terrain.
115 Pope : As I've now said about 10 times, we fundamentally disagree on the notion that the burden of establishing actual innocence should fall on the private
116 MDorBust : That the state is trying to kill them is also at the root of the matter as to why you don't want the state trying to save them. One of the reasons yo
117 Pope : No. I agree. But that will require a constitutional amendment so it will never happen. The point of my original post in this thread wasn't pro- or an
118 Dougloid : Fair enough....I did. Here's what you said. Do you have any idea about how many false confessions occur? Do you know what the error rate in eyewitnes
119 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : Always remember that not all moderatores are "moderate " !
120 Baroque : With DNA, there are a number of problems. First the usual one with sample and lab IDs. Where forensic labs have, themselves, come under scrutiny, all
121 Dougloid : With respect to eyewitness identification errors Dr. Elizabeth Loftus has done a lot of work in this area. Likewise, with respect to false confession
122 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Yup, I said that too . . . apparently you missed it also, so as a refresher: Perhaps yet another scan of the thread thread is warranted? No, really,
123 Dougloid : I'm willing to agree to disagree here. However, in my years as a prosecutor and as a defense lawyer I've never seen anything like you describe. here'
124 Baroque : Nice saga. Truth can be an uncomfortable companion Dougloid. That may be why is it so hard to find most of the time. Getting the truth out of inanima
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