102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1154 posts, RR: 3 Posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1157 times:
At the farewell ceremony for Sec of Defense Rumsfeld the other day, held on the grounds of the Pentagon, Vice President Cheney called him the finest secretary of defense this nation has ever had.
So, either Vice President Cheney is the most clueless man to hold that office, or he thinks the American people are stupid. I don’t know which one is worse.
In any event, can anyone explain why during a time of war when he is first in line to the Presidency of the United States, he occupies the office of the Vice President?
Quoting 102IAHexpress (Thread starter): can anyone explain why during a time of war when he is first in line to the Presidency of the United States, he occupies the office of the Vice President
No brainer really - it's called an election - we have them quite often here in the USofA . . . we all had a shot at changing that, it didn't happen. Democracy at it's finest. Like it or not . . .
DeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 16 Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1140 times:
Quoting 102IAHexpress (Thread starter): So, either Vice President Cheney is the most clueless man to hold that office, or he thinks the American people are stupid. I don’t know which one is worse.
Perhaps you have heard of the word "spin" or maybe you just don't understand politics that well.
Why would Cheney say at Rummy's farewell party that he was a crappy choice, tried to do everything on the cheap, and was a general blowhard?
Quoting 102IAHexpress (Thread starter): In any event, can anyone explain why during a time of war when he is first in line to the Presidency of the United States, he occupies the office of the Vice President?
Uhmm...he was selected by Dubya to be his running mate, was accepted at the GOP Convention, and then voted into office by the Electoral College as dictated by the Constitution.
What a wonderfully loaded question you propose here in what will soon become a "Bash Dubya/Cheney/Rummy/All of the GOP" thread. I personally am no fan of Dubya, Cheney, or Rummy after these last few years but at least I can pose a well worded, non-biased question unlike you.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
CastleIsland From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1122 times:
Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 3): Why would Cheney say at Rummy's farewell party that he was a crappy choice, tried to do everything on the cheap, and was a general blowhard?
Gee, I'd like to think that there is a fair bit room between your statement and those made by Cheney. He could have been polite and even found some positive things to praise Rummy for (perhaps), but instead, he came out and confirmed the ivory tower attitude that is so typical of many politicians today.
In addition, he made him self look like an idiot (!) for going as far as he did. Finest ever?
102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1154 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1122 times:
President Bush fired Sec of State Powell, 4th in line to the presidency, he fired Treasury Sec O’Neill 5th in line to the presidency and he just gave Sec of Defense Rumsefeld his walking papers, who was 6th in line to the presidency.
For the country’s sake, having the Vice President step down would be the right thing to do, and would not be unprecedented.
Heck politically speaking it might be a brilliant move. Have the President nominate Giuliani to be Vice President, who would probably be easily confirmed by the House and Senate. And that would also set up the GOP’s White House bid in 2008. But then again, nothing this administration has done could ever be described as forward thinking.
DeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 16 Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1098 times:
Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 4): Gee, I'd like to think that there is a fair bit room between your statement and those made by Cheney. He could have been polite and even found some positive things to praise Rummy for (perhaps), but instead, he came out and confirmed the ivory tower attitude that is so typical of many politicians today.
Huh? I was posing the question back to the OP in a rhetorical manner why in the speech for Rummy would Cheney not shower praise upon him. Of course Cheney isn't going to call Rummy a jackass even if that's what he feels deep down inside (though I doubt it.)
Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 5): But then again, nothing this administration has done could ever be described as forward thinking.
Now you're getting it! We may disagree with our ideas but we seem to be on the same page here.
Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 5): For the country’s sake, having the Vice President step down would be the right thing to do, and would not be unprecedented.
I personally don't see any reason why Cheney should step down. I don't like him but I don't see him being bad for the country. He's not under indictment or investigation for anything which is usually when a VP will step down.
Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 5): Have the President nominate Giuliani to be Vice President, who would probably be easily confirmed by the House and Senate. And that would also set up the GOP’s White House bid in 2008.
Great on paper but I'm not sure how well Giuliani would do in the 2008 GOP primaries even with the short incumbency behind him.
Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 5): President Bush fired Sec of State Powell, 4th in line to the presidency
You ignore the fact that Powell resigned (was he forced out? In this case possibly yes) and that the SOS in most cases steps down after the first term and let's someone else serve in that role for the second term.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
CastleIsland From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1071 times:
Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 6): Huh? I was posing the question back to the OP in a rhetorical manner why in the speech for Rummy would Cheney not shower praise upon him.
Of course, and you chastised the thread-starter for essentially expecting him to expect Cheney to call Rummy "a bad choice." My point was that I have little doubt that the thread-starter would expect that. That would be as ridiculous as what Cheney actually said. The appropriate response was somewhere in between. A point usually lost on politicians.
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 19813 posts, RR: 56 Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1065 times:
Aha! The proof that Cheney is a liar!
Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 3): Why would Cheney say at Rummy's farewell party that he was a crappy choice, tried to do everything on the cheap, and was a general blowhard?
He could have just BSed a "you have been devoted in your service to the country and your presence in the cabinet will be missed" kind of speech (translation: "you have been devoted to somehow f*cking up every single damn thing you touched from the minute you walked into the Pentagon, and it really sucks that you're leaving, since now we're going to have to take the blame that should have gone to you - thanks a lot, you idiot"). Happens all the time.
-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
DeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 16 Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1051 times:
Quoting Mir (Reply 8): He could have just BSed a "you have been devoted in your service to the country and your presence in the cabinet will be missed" kind of speech (translation: "you have been devoted to somehow f*cking up every single damn thing you touched from the minute you walked into the Pentagon, and it really sucks that you're leaving, since now we're going to have to take the blame that should have gone to you - thanks a lot, you idiot").
Apparently quite a few of you haven't understood that is what I have been saying all along. Even if Cheney thinks Rummy is a dog molester he isn't going to say so in his farewell speech to him. Farewll speeches to political allies are always done this way. Now if a Dem had given the speech we could have expected lots of nastiness but not from his own party...regardless of what they really think of him.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
AirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1030 times:
Rumsfeld the finest Sec of Defense ever, sounds like something Ann Coulter would say, that's right she did!
Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 9): Farewll speeches to political allies are always done this way.
Every true.
If 9/11 didn't happen Rumsfeld would have been gone a long time ago, rumors had him leaving before the 2002 elections, but sometime events change the course, the disaster in Iraq, not sending enough troops, lack of safety equipment for the troops etc, no end game planning will be what he will be remember for.
Now for the worst Sec of Defense one Les Aspin comes to mind.
Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 998 times:
Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 6): I personally don't see any reason why Cheney should step down. I don't like him but I don't see him being bad for the country. He's not under indictment or investigation for anything which is usually when a VP will step down.
Hard to get someone indicted when everything he does is held in secret from the American people. Personally, I think he's more crooked than a winding road in the Rockies, and you're gonna find out things in the next decade or so about this guy that will curl the hair in your nose, if you have any. He's dirty; he's underhanded; he's a war hawk. He's been horrible for this nation.
NeilYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 991 times:
What was he supposed to say at a retirement ceremony for someone who is probably a friend? Hell, I'd say it too if I were his friend, can't slag someone at their retirement ceremony. I think the fact that he resigned tells us pretty much all we need to know about the job he's done.
DeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 16 Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 986 times:
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 11): Hard to get someone indicted when everything he does is held in secret from the American people. Personally, I think he's more crooked than a winding road in the Rockies, and you're gonna find out things in the next decade or so about this guy that will curl the hair in your nose, if you have any. He's dirty; he's underhanded; he's a war hawk. He's been horrible for this nation.
I don't completely disagree with you here but the same could be said at some point for almost every politician out there whether they be Dems or Republicans, minus the war hawk thing.
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 11): this guy that will curl the hair in your nose, if you have any.
I try to keep my nose hair to a minimum thank you.
(And before you turkeys chime in with how important nose hair is for cleaning the air we breathe...I know that and was joking.)
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
ANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 978 times:
Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 12): can't slag someone at their retirement ceremony.
Ummm, I hate to break it to you, but RUMSFELD did . . . when he summarily fired . . . . ermmm, I mean retired . . . . . Gen Erik Shinseki. He didn't even show. Neither did Wolfowitz. C,JCS did the deal . . . .
Now if that ain't "slaggin'" I don't know what is . . .
NeilYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 974 times:
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 14):
Ummm, I hate to break it to you, but RUMSFELD did . . . when he summarily fired . . . . ermmm, I mean retired . . . . . Gen Erik Shinseki. He didn't even show. Neither did Wolfowitz. C,JCS did the deal . . .
Good point. I'm not personally surprised at what Cheney said. Hopefully the new SecDef can change things about. At least with Rumsfeld gone there will be one less series of threads that take place on a near weekly basis.
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 14): Now if that ain't "slaggin'" I don't know what is . . .
Sprout5199 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1783 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 953 times:
Is it me or what? How come the ones who do a good job get the " Glad to know ya, here's a watch" while the ones who screwed up get the "He's the best" speech. Guess actions do speak louder than words.
AsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 949 times:
Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 3): Why would Cheney say at Rummy's farewell party that he was a crappy choice
Cheney is too used to telling lies and seeing the world through opaque glasses to start telling the truth. He doesn't know how to be truthful anymore.
Maybe the Bush administration uses some kind of strange criteria to evaluate success. Remember when Bush said, "Browny, you're doing a great job!?" Definitely a different set of critieria.
NWOrientDC10 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1391 posts, RR: 4 Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 934 times:
Sprout5199 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1783 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 925 times:
Quoting NWOrientDC10 (Reply 19): Al Haig was a fine Defense Secretary. Probably better than the Honorable Mr. Rumsfeld.
You have got to be joking. Better the rummy, YES, but a fine secdef? NO.
Give me Weinberger any day.
NWOrientDC10 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1391 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 908 times:
Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 20): You have got to be joking. Better the rummy, YES, but a fine secdef? NO.
Give me Weinberger any day.
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12365 posts, RR: 12 Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 893 times:
I think the VP Chenny needs a change in his heart medicine. I think whatever he takes is screwing up his brain. By using the term "best ever" as to Rumsfeld, he diminished his already weak creditability.
I wish that instead of being retired, he had to leave as indited on war crimes, for his caring out the torture and other illegal treatment of alleged terrorist prisoners, Abu Garth jail torture and so on.
Bushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 888 times:
Some might be surprised to hear this coming from me. But I am not surprised at all to hear Cheney say this. This is the sort of love fest politicians give each other all the time. I remember a certain speech from a Senator about being proud his state carried Strom Thurman and the dixiecrats way back when.
Same as when people had some nice things to say about Nixon when he dies. Although Rummy aint quite dead yet, this should come as no surprise.
I certainly disagree with Cheney on Rummy being the best SecDef ever. But hell with some of his spin tactics he has probably justified it. He really should wear a hat more ala ANCFlyer, it will keep the sun from penetrating his bald head and having UV rays destroy his brain.
25 MD-90: If you're gonna lie through your teeth, why not tell a whopper?
26 DeltaGator: Spell check anyone? Looks like someone's emotions are running a bit high.
27 Aaron747: Richard Cheney has no business wearing the anything resembling the American flag on his lapel. He is an American in name only at this point. He's made
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