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France Imposes Transit Visa On Colombians  
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5602 times:

Here it is:

http://www.ambafrance-co.org/article.php3?id_article=787

Any Colombian who transits thru France and his/her final destination is a non-schengen country, must acquire a Schengen transit visa.

IMO, huge blow for AF. AF carries at least 70% of all Colombia-Asia traffic and most of Colombia-Africa/Middle East traffic too. Of course, AF is the only option in many of these markets but people will prefer to go via the US if they have their visas already, even if its less direct.

We can also say goodbye to many possibilities of AV returning to CDG.

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5507 times:

I'm surprised there are no comments on this thread you started, RCS763AV.

Maybe its the perception that when the U.S. imposes visa requirements, outraged posters decry this as a violation of human rights and an affront to the dignity of the human race. When others do it, it's a proper exercise in national sovereignty and rational self interest.  flamed 

[Edited 2006-12-22 22:41:08]


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5398 times:

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 1):
Maybe its the perception that when the U.S. imposes visa requirements, outraged posters decry this as a violation of human rights and an affront to the dignity of the human race. When others do it, it's a proper exercise in national sovereignty and rational self interest.

Indeed, that is always the excuse (US=bad, Others=national sovereignity). Transit visas are a violation to human dignity, no matter which country imposes them.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22304 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5398 times:

Looking at the application, it appears that France is concerned about illegal immigration from Colombia; they ask for contact information for the applicant's employer (or maybe that's just because they're using a standard Schengen Visa application form). Has France had a problem with illegal immigrants from Colombia?


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5396 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 3):
Has France had a problem with illegal immigrants from Colombia?

No actually, the one with problems is Spain. I think France must be very prevented since they have been having all this immigrant-related problems lately. But still imposing transit visas is not the solution.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22304 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5370 times:

So I just did a quick check of other South American Countries... Here's who needs a visa for transit (and a 3 month stay)

Chile... No
Argentina... I don't know; the website was broken
Uruguay... Another bum website
Venezuela... No
Bolivia... No
Peru... Yes
Ecuador... Yes

It seems kind of arbitrary. I'd be curious to know about Brazil. Unfortunately, I don't read French or Portugese.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently onlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 5328 times:

I cannot possibly believe that this transit visa requirement is a France-only affair. Since it states that Colombian nationals need a Schengen transit visa, I would venture to say that it's a Schenen-wide requirement. That said, the intricacies of the Schengen visa policy, or lack thereof, are a never ending source of bewilderment.

User currently offlineStylo777 From Turkey, joined Feb 2006, 2904 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5264 times:

what about BCN/MAD? Thats the only other possibilty out of BOG thru Europe.

User currently offlineIberiaA319 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 573 posts, RR: 39
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5221 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
Chile... No
Argentina... I don't know; the website was broken
Uruguay... Another bum website
Venezuela... No
Bolivia... No
Peru... Yes
Ecuador... Yes

It seems kind of arbitrary.

It is not arbitrary! During the last years we had (specially in Spain) a large number of immigrants coming from Colombia, Peru, Ecuador, Cuba and Dominican Republic, as no Schengen Visa was required.

Even for Cubans a transit visa was required a long time ago, when Cubana operated the flight HAV-MAD-SVO, because lots of Cubans requested asylum during the stop-over in MAD.

However, Cubans need a Schengen Visa for entry in the EU, but they don't require a transit visa in the EU if the transit airport is not located in Spain and their final destination is a non-Schengen country. The same applies for Colombians who don't need a transit visa if transiting in Spain (this may change though).

France for example requires a transit visa for citizens of Angola, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Ivory Coast, Gambia, Guinea, Haiti, Lebanon, Mali or Senegal, among others.

And Germany has a different list, Turkish citizens need a transit visa for Germany if their final destination is a non-Schengen country. But a Turkish citizen does not need a transit visa if transiting in France

Also a citizen of Cameroon does not need a transit visa if transiting at a German airport, but then again......are there any flights linking Cameroon and Germany?

Here's the list of this weird transit visa requests within the EU (not updated):



[Edited 2006-12-23 12:56:38]

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22304 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5132 times:

Quoting IberiaA319 (Reply 8):
It is not arbitrary! During the last years we had (specially in Spain) a large number of immigrants coming from Colombia, Peru, Ecuador, Cuba and Dominican Republic, as no Schengen Visa was required.

That's interesting. Are you suggesting that large numbers of Bolivians and Venezuelans do not emigrate?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineGte439u From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 360 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5097 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 2):
Transit visas are a violation to human dignity, no matter which country imposes them.

Please explain why transit visas are a human rights violation. Thank you.


User currently offlineKiramakora From Argentina, joined Aug 2006, 546 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5052 times:

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 1):
Maybe its the perception that when the U.S. imposes visa requirements, outraged posters decry this as a violation of human rights and an affront to the dignity of the human race. When others do it, it's a proper exercise in national sovereignty and rational self interest

Perhaps this has got few posts because France's inward looking policies have been beaten to death on A.Net; if you did a popularity contest and took out America-Europe origin, I am willing to bet that the U.S. would not be considered most hated. Guess who the front-runner would be  Wink.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 6):
I cannot possibly believe that this transit visa requirement is a France-only affair.

It is. Airside transit visa requirements within Schenegen are imposed by the individual country.

Quoting IberiaA319 (Reply 8):
Here's the list of this weird transit visa requests within the EU (not updated):

Very weird and not update. Indians do not require it for transiting to most countries.

Quoting Gte439u (Reply 10):
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 2):
Transit visas are a violation to human dignity, no matter which country imposes them.

Please explain why transit visas are a human rights violation. Thank you.

I would not classify it as much as a HR violation. However, it does smack of an inability of a lot of other things ... most importantly, its an admission of the French (in this instance) that their airport security apparatus do not work  Smile.

To my Colombian friends: vote with your wallet and avoid CDG. I know the French imposed it on Indians for a bit in the past and Indians boycotted AF. Within a month or two, the visa requirements were gone as Indian connecting traffic in CDG is too lucrative. Just vote with your wallet; that is the best response you can give to policies one does not agree with.


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5040 times:

Quoting Kiramakora (Reply 11):
To my Colombian friends: vote with your wallet and avoid CDG. I know the French imposed it on Indians for a bit in the past and Indians boycotted AF. Within a month or two, the visa requirements were gone as Indian connecting traffic in CDG is too lucrative. Just vote with your wallet; that is the best response you can give to policies one does not agree with.

Not surprising, a surprisingly significant percentage of US-India traffic passes through Paris on AF. It has to be quite lucrative for them.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineVarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1581 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5015 times:

Quoting Kiramakora (Reply 11):
However, it does smack of an inability of a lot of other things ... most importantly, its an admission of the French (in this instance) that their airport security apparatus do not work

Coud you please explain transit visas for colombians and the link with a supposed screwed airport security?
do you mean to say colombians are a security threat and it has been chosen to focus on them via a visa for that reason?
enlighten me

I am sorry for colombians but as mentioned a spaniard here before, the number of illegals from that country is incredibly high in Spain and in other EU countries nowadays: what goes around comes around



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User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 43
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4996 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 6):
I cannot possibly believe that this transit visa requirement is a France-only affair. Since it states that Colombian nationals need a Schengen transit visa, I would venture to say that it's a Schenen-wide requirement.

That's exactly what I thought.

Ridiculous if different countries can have different rules, it's bad enough when one embassy reguarly gives multiple entry 3-month stay visas while another gives 14-day no matter what documentation you have.



Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineKiramakora From Argentina, joined Aug 2006, 546 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4995 times:

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 13):
Coud you please explain transit visas for colombians and the link with a supposed screwed airport security?

When transferring at CDG, one stays in a secured area for the entire time - unless connecting domestically or to another Schenegen country, in which case they have to do immigration. If security worked properly, how would the transiting Colombian passenger actually enter France? They could ONLY get out past the security checks. And if they could get out past the security checks, then the airport is not very secure, and ceteris paribus would warrant the French government to require transit visas.


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4970 times:

Quoting Gte439u (Reply 10):
Please explain why transit visas are a human rights violation. Thank you.

I said DIGNITY violation. Why in feakin hell do you have to pay money (different from the airport fee) to go thru an aiport just b/c they think youll skip security and enter the country, theyre basically saying Colombian citizens (and others) are capable of doing such things. I mean entry visas should be required if the country has immigration troubles, but transit visas are just stupid.

Quoting Kiramakora (Reply 15):
When transferring at CDG, one stays in a secured area for the entire time - unless connecting domestically or to another Schenegen country, in which case they have to do immigration. If security worked properly, how would the transiting Colombian passenger actually enter France? They could ONLY get out past the security checks. And if they could get out past the security checks, then the airport is not very secure, and ceteris paribus would warrant the French government to require transit visas.

Thank you for explaining.


User currently offlineVarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1581 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4903 times:

Quoting Kiramakora (Reply 15):
When transferring at CDG, one stays in a secured area for the entire time - unless connecting domestically or to another Schenegen country, in which case they have to do immigration. If security worked properly, how would the transiting Colombian passenger actually enter France? They could ONLY get out past the security checks. And if they could get out past the security checks, then the airport is not very secure, and ceteris paribus would warrant the French government to require transit visas

Sorry this demo is flawed
you mix up immigration principles and security issues
if colombians enter France it's because immigration is not checking what theY are supposed to check: this has nothing to do with security issue

oh, of course, who am I to tell you so?
just an ex security manager at CDG



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User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5014 posts, RR: 55
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4885 times:

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 17):
if colombians enter France it's because immigration is not checking what theY are supposed to check: this has nothing to do with security issue

= What are you talking about?

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 17):
oh, of course, who am I to tell you so?
just an ex security manager at CDG

= Sure.

I agree too. This transit visa demonstrates the incompetence of the French policing of its airports. In my books, transit visas make "sense" only for those countries whose airports are not built with secure transit areas - example: USA and Canada.

Cheers,
A.

[Edited 2006-12-23 21:54:42]


Live, and let live.
User currently offlineVarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1581 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks ago) and read 4862 times:

are you happy now abrelosojos?
your comments are so usefull
if you don't understand what I mean then read again

whenever you want I can document what I say about CDG and being a security manager, but it would be a complete loss of time as you probably would say you have no idea of what I talk about...



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User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5014 posts, RR: 55
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks ago) and read 4856 times:

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 19):
if you don't understand what I mean then read again



Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 17):
if colombians enter France it's because immigration is not checking what theY are supposed to check: this has nothing to do with security issue

= Perhaps if you spent time analyzing what people say instead of blind defending of the Republic, it would help. Why would immigration be at fault here? International transfers happen within a secure area @ CDG. Why would immigration apparently not be checking what they are supposed to check? That makes no sense. Again, as already mentioned before by another A.Netter, transiting within a secure area does not require immigration. Uugh.

Cheers,
A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4756 times:

To be honest, I haven't seen a valid reason to impose transit visas in this case. This will only hurt AF, but I guess that being the only carrier in the roue, I guess they won't feel the heat, unless AV steps in their face..........but who knows.

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 17):
if colombians enter France it's because immigration is not checking what theY are supposed to check: this has nothing to do with security issue

To be honest, I don't even have a clue of what the hell you're talking about. I don't even want to think that you implied that colombians should not get in France at all...........of course, why would a french say something like that, again, who knows..........

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 20):
International transfers happen within a secure area @ CDG. Why would immigration apparently not be checking what they are supposed to check? That makes no sense. Again, as already mentioned before by another A.Netter, transiting within a secure area does not require immigration. Uugh.



Quoting Kiramakora (Reply 15):
When transferring at CDG, one stays in a secured area for the entire time - unless connecting domestically or to another Schenegen country, in which case they have to do immigration

This is the real clue of this issue here. Why using a seat belt if your car doesn't work?? A bit paranoid?? Of course not, the only paranoids in this world are the freaking gringos. Just one question, how big is the illegal colombian community in France, or even better, how many colombians use CDG to enter into the country illegaly transiting to somewhere else (I will assume a non-Schengen country of course)? Is it too difficult to handle the incredibly amount of ONE daily flight between Colombia and CDG, that french authorities realized is just almost a thread to their national interests? How many of pax of that daily flight really transit to a third country? Againg, this whole issue doesn't make sense at all, not even a bit, but..............who knows.......

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 17):
if colombians enter France it's because immigration is not checking what theY are supposed to check

I know I've quoted this same sentence on this reply, but I want to really understand this before I go to bed. Maybe if colombians got into french soil is because MOST got french VISAS given by the French Embassy in BOGOTA. So, instead of giving everybody, including the very Frenchissima AF, a headache, why not just looking better before issuing the visas.....but again, who knows.....

IMO, and getting a bit more serious, I think the French govt is setting up some rules before AV gets back in the route, which I guess will be done in 2007, but......who knows.


Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 19):
whenever you want I can document what I say about CDG and being a security manager, but it would be a complete loss of time as you probably would say you have no idea of what I talk about...

No need to prove anything, I will still think you don't have a clue in this issue. This runs deepper than just a security issue. Maybe ABRELOSOJOS agrees with me.


Cheers


JAAH



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlineMk777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1193 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4738 times:

don't pax flying via LHR (or any other UK airport) need transit visa, for eg...EWR-LHR-DEL, doesn't the Indian citizen flying from EWR to DEL require a UK transit visa??

So why such hullaballo over colombians requiring a schengen transit visa??  Smile



come fly with me
User currently offlineKiramakora From Argentina, joined Aug 2006, 546 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4730 times:

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 22):
don't pax flying via LHR (or any other UK airport) need transit visa, for eg...EWR-LHR-DEL, doesn't the Indian citizen flying from EWR to DEL require a UK transit visa??

An Indian citizen flying from EWR to DEL via LHR (on any other UK airport) does NOT need a Direct Airside Transit (DAT) visa.


User currently offlineMk777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1193 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4719 times:

Quoting Kiramakora (Reply 23):
An Indian citizen flying from EWR to DEL via LHR (on any other UK airport) does NOT need a Direct Airside Transit (DAT) visa.

I thought they did, my bad...but wasn't this a case 2 or 3 years ago, i guess i must've read wrong!

thanks for clearing that for me.  Smile



come fly with me
25 SJCRRPAX : What I know about the French is they are reasonable people, who usually have a reason for doing something. What I know about Columbia is the country h
26 B747-437B : This blanket statement is not quite accurate. There are a number of situations under which the Indian citizen DOES require a DATV for the UK. The DAT
27 Kiramakora : WOW. I dont know your exposure to Colombia, but it is a truly beautiful country with warm gracious hosts. I stand corrected. I forgot the 6 month rul
28 Rojo : Before you make those assumptions, you better read a book on immigration laws... the Colombian "Mafias" will find a loophole in the law and get peopl
29 RCS763AV : If you knew something different that the 20-years ago story about my country, you would not spell it wrong. Its ColOmbia. I don´t think you are albe
30 Laxintl : No offence to any Colombians, which I have several as friends, however clearly the French have a valid reason for this. The imposition of Transit Vis
31 777jaah : I can clearly understand your statement here, but what's the reason if you're going to be in a secured area all the time, where the only way in and o
32 Yyz717 : Whoa, your comment is way over the top! Transit visas are usually imposed to prevent illegal immigration and bogus "refugee" claims. France's #1 resp
33 SFOMEX : I had a different experience. Last summer I connected in CDG to MEX from TLV. Despite I was flying from a non-Schenegen country to another non-Schene
34 A300AA : Obviously you dont know a single word about that country, first, is COLOMBIA, and if you dont even know how to spell the name, how can you pretend to
35 Post contains links Kiramakora : That is indeed interesting and I am surprised as I have done the exact itinerary a few times. Flights on AF arrive at 2E from TLV and AM departs from
36 SFOMEX : I flow EL AL from TLV to CDG, although my ticket was with Aeromexico. Once I got to CDG around 6 AM, I asked in the AF connections desk what I should
37 IberiaA319 : Currently Bolivians do not need a visa to enter the Schengen area. However, due to the large immigration during recent years (specially in Spain), Bo
38 Bongo : If you have a Canadian, USA or Swiss visa you won´t need a French visa to go on transit thru CDG.
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