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Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe  
User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5599 posts, RR: 20
Posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1633 times:

...anyone surprised?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6240473.stm

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAirbusA346 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 7437 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1633 times:

I thought they had reach a deal on the 1st Jan.

Tom.



Tom Walker '086' First Officer of a A318/A319 for Air Lambert - Hours Flown: 17 hour 05 minutes (last updated 24/12/05).
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1622 times:

Quoting AirbusA346 (Reply 1):
I thought they had reach a deal on the 1st Jan.

They did, but Belarus imposed a new oil transit tax on the Russian pipeline straight after - thereby making the extra money back.

So Russia has gone ahead and cut it anyway.


User currently offlineBoeing4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1596 times:

The irony is delicious.

The last dictatorship of Europe vs. the Oil Oligarch. And Poland and Germany STILL get a screw job out of it.

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 


User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1584 times:

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 3):
And Poland and Germany STILL get a screw job out of it.

What are you talking about?

pelican


User currently offlineOlegShv From Sweden, joined Mar 2006, 683 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1566 times:

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 3):
The irony is delicious.

The last dictatorship of Europe vs. the Oil Oligarch. And Poland and Germany STILL get a screw job out of it.

So, is Russia supposed to subsidize Europe's last dictator?


User currently offlineVonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4626 posts, RR: 37
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1566 times:

Time for Canada to ramp up production Big grin


Word
User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 2993 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1558 times:

Quoting L410Turbolet (Thread starter):
...anyone surprised?

Nope. Simple as that.

Aeroflot777


User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1558 times:

Quoting OlegShv (Reply 5):
So, is Russia supposed to subsidize Europe's last dictator?

No, but Russia is supposed to serve its contracts with other European countries.

pelican


User currently offlineBoeing4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1549 times:

Quoting Pelican (Reply 4):
What are you talking about?

The supply cuts affect Poland, Germany, and Ukraine...neither of which have a current dispute with Russia or Belarus.

This case demonstrates the need for a switch to alternative energy, as suppliers are becoming more and more unreliable. Outside of that, prices will only continue to rise.

Quoting OlegShv (Reply 5):
So, is Russia supposed to subsidize Europe's last dictator?

No, see above.

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 


User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1538 times:

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 9):
This case demonstrates the need for a switch to alternative energy, as suppliers are becoming more and more unreliable. Outside of that, prices will only continue to rise.

I see and fully agree.
Sorry, I didn't understand what you meant by screw job. Sometimes I can't apply my humble English knowledge fast enough.

pelican


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11573 posts, RR: 61
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1535 times:

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 9):
as suppliers are becoming more and more unreliable. Outside of that, prices will only continue to rise.

It's more the supply line and not the actual supplier. If Belarus is cyphering off oil from the pipeline, then both Russia and the countries it is supplying in Europe are losing out. It's only obvious to shut the supply off until Belarus is made, or "promises", not to take the oil any more, or to make unreasonable charges for it's passage.

Dan Smile



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineBoeing4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1521 times:

Quoting Pelican (Reply 10):
I see and fully agree.
Sorry, I didn't understand what you meant by screw job. Sometimes I can't apply my humble English knowledge fast enough.

Don't worry about, with the amount of English slang thrown around I figured you might have mistook me as saying Poland and Germany were getting some sort of international deviant pleasure out of this...  Smile

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 11):
It's more the supply line and not the actual supplier. If Belarus is cyphering off oil from the pipeline, then both Russia and the countries it is supplying in Europe are losing out. It's only obvious to shut the supply off until Belarus is made, or "promises", not to take the oil any more, or to make unreasonable charges for it's passage.

Problem is you're not going to get such promises. And of course, prices will go up as a result. Staying out of the whole CIS would be ideal in terms of energy independence for Europe.

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 


User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 2993 posts, RR: 27
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1504 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 11):

It's more the supply line and not the actual supplier. If Belarus is cyphering off oil from the pipeline, then both Russia and the countries it is supplying in Europe are losing out. It's only obvious to shut the supply off until Belarus is made, or "promises", not to take the oil any more, or to make unreasonable charges for it's passage.

Exactly!

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 12):
Problem is you're not going to get such promises. And of course, prices will go up as a result. Staying out of the whole CIS would be ideal in terms of energy independence for Europe.

Unfortunately, that's not Russia's problem to deal with either. Some sort of agreement should be reached, and Belarus isn't totally cooperating.


User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1498 times:

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 12):
I figured you might have mistook me as saying Poland and Germany were getting some sort of international deviant pleasure out of this...

Indeed, and it wouldn't surprise me (knowing the German-Polish relationship)...  Wink

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 11):
It's more the supply line and not the actual supplier

This time you're right. But we all know that monopolies aren't good for customers and Russia has demonstrated on several occasions that they are using their power.

pelican


User currently offlineOlegShv From Sweden, joined Mar 2006, 683 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1498 times:

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 9):
This case demonstrates the need for a switch to alternative energy, as suppliers are becoming more and more unreliable.

Yes, but in the near to mid-term perspective this switch is hardly possible.


User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1497 times:

Quoting OlegShv (Reply 15):
Yes, but in the near to mid-term perspective this switch is hardly possible.

Not completly, although Sweden is exactly doing this. They become completly independent of oil by 2020 (?).

pelican


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11573 posts, RR: 61
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1485 times:

Quoting Pelican (Reply 14):
This time you're right.

What do you mean, this time, lol  silly 

Also, I presume that Germany and Poland all have a fairly substantial stocks of oil in storage, so they are not going to be running short straight away, so Russia can do this safe in the knowledge that their customer will not be left dry immediately whilst issuing a wake-up call to Belarus.

Dan Smile



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineOlegShv From Sweden, joined Mar 2006, 683 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1485 times:

Regarding Sweden's oil-independence from wikipedia:

    In their report, the Commission proposed the following targets for 2020:

  • Consumption of oil in road transport to be reduced by 40% to 50%

  • Consumption of oil in industry to be cut by 25% to 40%

  • Heating buildings with oil, a practice already cut by 70% since the 1973 oil crisis, should be phased out

  • Overall, energy should be used 20% more efficiently


So, while they will substantially reduce their dependence, they won't totally phase it out. Also, keep in mind that Sweden is relatively small nation of roughly 9 million people - about half population of a large city, say like New-York.


User currently offlineBoeing4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1449 times:

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 13):
Unfortunately, that's not Russia's problem to deal with either. Some sort of agreement should be reached, and Belarus isn't totally cooperating.

Understood, but if something isn't done, business relationships can be soured.

Quoting Pelican (Reply 14):
Indeed, and it wouldn't surprise me (knowing the German-Polish relationship)...

Speaking as a Polish person, what Warsaw and Berlin do with each other nowadays behind closed doors is their business. Frankly, I don't want to know. Kaczynski and Merkel...*shudder*. At least it ain't Lepper, madam Chancellor hopefully has some class.  

Quoting OlegShv (Reply 15):
Yes, but in the near to mid-term perspective this switch is hardly possible.

Yes, but at the same time, the US and some European countries are still dragging their feet. When oil goes below 55 bucks a barrel, the incentive seems to disappear...until another wake up call hits. I do believe peak oil is coming. Time to get to work.

Quoting Pelican (Reply 16):
Not completly, although Sweden is exactly doing this. They become completly independent of oil by 2020 (?).

As pointed out, their smaller population helps them out wheras Deutschland und/i Polska are a wee bit more cumbersome. Poland is still in the midst of major infrastructure overhaul which has to be completed before any serious attempt can be made to curb oil consumption.

That said, certainly, Sweden has set the standard, and it wouldn't hurt for Central Europe, nay the whole rest of Europe to follow suit.

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 

[Edited 2007-01-09 03:03:48]

User currently offlineBushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1432 times:

While I think it important for us to explore and develop clean alternative sources of energy the products made from oil is more than 10W40 and gasoline. We can start with plastics being one product we will still need oil for its manufacture. What we need to do is stop creating the bad bedfellows in our need for it. A perfect example is this.

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 6):
Time for Canada to ramp up production

Amen to that. Canada has tons and tons of oil, I would much rather use Canadian and Alaskan oil than Venezualan or middle eastern oil. Seems to create political problems when we go that route.


User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5599 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1393 times:

Quoting OlegShv (Reply 5):
So, is Russia supposed to subsidize Europe's last dictator?

I thought he was Putin's best friend?

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 7):
Nope. Simple as that.

Exactly. Russia proving itself to be completely unreable and impossible to be trusted as a business partner once again. No surprise here.


User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1377 times:

Quoting OlegShv (Reply 18):
So, while they will substantially reduce their dependence, they won't totally phase it out. Also, keep in mind that Sweden is relatively small nation of roughly 9 million people - about half population of a large city, say like New-York.

Sure, Germany has a much bigger population than Sweden and it is therefore much more difficult to become oil independent. But to become complete independence is not necessary in the short/mid-term. All those measures you have posted are on the first sight not size dependent. It becomes size dependent not until you look on the alternative sources. Some of those are others aren't. Efficiency should have nothing to do with country size.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 21):
I thought he was Putin's best friend?

Not really, didn't a Russian diplomat say "He (Lukashenko) is a bastard, but at least he is our bastard."

pelican


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13813 posts, RR: 63
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1343 times:

From what I've heard in the news today, the Belorus government has been tapping te pipeline.
The only way Lukashenko can keep control of his country is by subsidising e.g. energy soviet style, so he needs access to cheap gas and oil. The Russians are not willing to subsidise him anymore.

Jan


User currently offlineBoeing4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1215 times:

Ref posts gone. delete this.

  B4e-Forever New Frontiers  

[Edited 2007-01-10 00:44:48]

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