Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
ENG/SCO/WAL/NI National Football Teams Question  
User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 33
Posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1087 times:

Hi everybody,

how is it determined for which of the four British national football teams - a player may play?
Obvious, at first sight - the English play for England, the Scottish play for Scotland - but how do you know whether someone is English or Scottish?

Daniel Smile

9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 1, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1083 times:

Place of birth, parentage, residency.

If you have a grandparent from any country, you can choose to play for them. In the case of the four home nations and Ireland, the peoples are so intermingled that very often a player is eligible for more than one team. Back in the eighties and early nineties, the Ireland (Republic of) team was largely made up of players who were English or Scottish but weren't good enough to make it into their own nation's side. Good coaching then made them into a remarkable success story, but you did get the example of Andy Townsend playing for Ireland, speaking with an English (Kent) accent and being a self confessed England fan!

Generally speaking though, people are fairly clear where their allegiances lie. for example, were I good enough I could play for England, Scotland or Ireland, but I would only ever be interested in playing for England, because regardless of ancestry, I am English!



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 33
Reply 2, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1076 times:

Hmm, but nowadays everything should be intermingled so much that every Briton should be able to get a connexion to at least England, Scotland and Wales; I mean, as long as there´s nothing in your passport determining your "ethnicity" you could just move to Scotland and claim "I´m Scottish", right? As long as the respective football associations don´t have firm rules like "must have lived in the country in question for at least 5 years" it would be more like ad lib, wouldn´t it?
Daniel Smile


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 3, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1072 times:

No, the residency rule is quite complicated and it is something like ten years plus a different connection as well. I don't know the full details but I'm sure someone else will!

Whilst the peoples are intermingled to a great degree (and it will probably become even more so) there is still quite a differentiation between the peoples. For example, the numbers of English that have moved to Scotland, Wales or Ireland is relatively few, but the reverse is not the case, because the money has generally speaking been in England. That is why the Scots, Welsh and Irish are often seen to have a more distinctive culture than the English - the English are much more of a melting pot. Even so, most people do not have the choice as the cross-breeding goes back too far in history, it's just a significant minority who do.

For that reason there is a healthy anti-Englishness (it's rarely genuine antipathy, just a hope that the English will get stuffed in any sporting endeavour, principally because England is bigger, more populous and has historically been the dominant force) in the British Isles anyway, which allows a number of people to proclaim their ancestry from other parts of the British Isles even if they are actually English.

As far as the parentage rules are concerned, you must have at least one grandparent who was born in the other country. It is not as straightforward as you might think, and certainly the Welsh and Scots rugby union teams have been caught out selecting players with no connection whatsoever.

On the whole it works, there are rarely problems; although us English are extremely miffed that Ryan Giggs chose to represent Wales rather than England. It still comes back to the emotive issue of who you feel you should represent. The Celtic nations are extremely patriotic and that often goes down the lineage of a particular person, even if they weren't born there. The English on the other hand are less vocal, but there are an awful lot more of us, and so the issue tends not to arise.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 33
Reply 4, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1067 times:

Thanks a lot. I get the impression that it´s quite difficult to determine that kind of thing if you can´t simply look at the guy´s passport as the last instance of decision.

Daniel Smile


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 5, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1065 times:

Don't forget that birth records go back an awfully long way in Britain!

And accent gives it away a lot of the time.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 33
Reply 6, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1061 times:

But you don´t have official residence records, if I´m not mistaken?

LOL, so true about the accents...

btw, if anyone cares: this "Lex Britannica" was applicable twice for Germany - the first time being the Anschluss of Austria in 1938. With Austria already qualified for the world cup and everything, they could have retained a team of their own, even being a part of the Greater Germany. However Hitler insisted on merging two very good teams into one bad one.
The second case was the Saarland/Sarre: when she was returned to Germany (having been under French administration after the war) the already existing Saar national team could have been continued. The German Football Association however decided to fully integrate it.

Daniel Smile


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 7, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1060 times:

So, you're saying that Hitler wrecked the German football team? Maybe he wasn't such a bad chap after all!! Big grin


She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 33
Reply 8, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1053 times:

In 1938 definitely - Germany having been 3rd in 1934 were considered a hot contender for the title... oh well, politicians and football...
Daniel Smile


User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24936 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1053 times:

It says in your passport where you were born. If this place is in Scotland you play for Scotland etc etc.


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
If English Football Teams Were Women... posted Mon Feb 20 2006 14:37:23 by Gkirk
Swearing Football Teams! posted Thu May 9 2002 10:11:52 by Vickybiccy
World Football: Your Leagues And Teams posted Mon Aug 28 2006 16:23:17 by LHMARK
Greek Football Clubs And National Team Suspended posted Mon Jul 3 2006 17:45:44 by Cornish
Question About NRA-National Rifle Association, USA posted Wed Feb 22 2006 00:10:04 by DIJKKIJK
Americans And National Teams posted Wed Sep 14 2005 06:39:08 by Centrair
US Pro Sport Teams Changing City Question. posted Wed Apr 20 2005 10:57:57 by OYRJA
Question About English Football Leagues And Cups posted Thu Mar 10 2005 09:38:10 by HercTech
Eng Judicial System Kicks Racist Out Of Football posted Wed Nov 24 2004 23:52:31 by EGGD
All Time Worst Sports Performances: National Teams posted Thu Dec 18 2003 19:15:23 by Banco