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The 2007 Offseason Nascar Thread  
User currently offlineKstateinALB From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 749 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1297 times:

Well, the 2007 season of Nascar will be starting up soon. Toyota will be in the running for manufacturer of the year, Juan Pablo Montoya will be driving a stock car, and Jimmie Johnson has a good chance to repeat. Anyone's thoughts?


ALB, DTW, ORD, MDW, MCI, JFK, LGA, LHR, MAD, MSP, IAD, DCA, MCO, ATL, CVG, TUL, MHK, PHL, PIT, DFW, DAL, CLT, IND, AUS,
40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMiamiair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1296 times:

Not crazy about DJ cutting the 88 in half to drive the 44 (Toyota) for Michael Waltrip.

User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1289 times:

Quoting KstateinALB (Thread starter):
Anyone's thoughts?

Waltrips new "team" will fail miserably, just like last year. Michael ain't no Darrell. Just like Junior ain't no Dale Sr.

The usual bunch will be back on top - Tony, Jimmie, Jeff, etc. I don't see a lot of change in the front runners this year.

It'll be a matter which one of the "usual crowd" gets most lucky and doesn't get smashed too often by some rookie pinhead that simply can't get those left turns in line.


User currently offlineAerobalance From United States of America, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 4682 posts, RR: 47
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1286 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):
Waltrips new "team" will fail miserably,

Doubting all the money that Toyota will spend? Define fail please.



"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1285 times:

A question from a motorsport fan on the other side of the pond to you NASCAR petrolheads.

While it has the biggest crowds and viewing figures of any motorsports after Formula One - it gets very little coverage over here even in the specialist motor racing press- unlike Champcars and IRL which of course have a greater degree of European and especially UK interest.

I'm curious as to how similar the NASCAR cars are under the skin between the different manufacturers. Tintop racing in Europe - either DTM, WTCC, BTCC etc, see the different cars engineered far more with their original origins (except the DTM is far more extreme) so that you'll get RWD BMWs, 4x4 Audis, or perhaps very different gearboxes, certainly very different dimensions and so on.

I always got the impression that NASCARS are in effect sillouhette racers where the technical spec under the skin is near identical and that it was the bodywork on top that differentiated each brand ? Is this the case, or does a Ford, Dodge, Chevy or now Toyota actually differ greatly under the skin ?

Also do fans tend to root more for particular teams or particular brands. In Europe you tend to be a Mercedes or Audi fan in the DTM rather than an AMG fan or Abt fan. The fans have their favourite drivers but lso their favourite cars. How about in NASCAR - drivers only, teams or car brands ?



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineAerobalance From United States of America, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 4682 posts, RR: 47
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1284 times:

Quoting Cornish (Reply 4):
I always got the impression that NASCARS are in effect sillouhette racers where the technical spec under the skin is near identical and that it was the bodywork on top that differentiated each brand ?

You are spot on, most chassis are the same, some teams will have their tricks-of-the-trade incorporated into their designs to set themselves apart from the rest - and infringing on the rules of the sport. The major difference between the cars are that the powerplants must be manufacturer specific, and with Toyota now in the game with a non-production based powerplant, they will force the others - Chevy, Dodge, Ford - to raise their game.



"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1280 times:

Thanks Aerobalance

Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 5):
The major difference between the cars are that the powerplants must be manufacturer specific, and with Toyota now in the game with a non-production based powerplant, they will force the others - Chevy, Dodge, Ford - to raise their game.

And is that because Toyota didn't have a production enginer that fitted the regs, or was it because they went in with the intention to find an edge by building a dedicated unit ? Either way I get the impression that NASCAR works hard on equivelency formulas to ensure that nobody gets too much of an edge.



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineKstateinALB From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 749 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1280 times:

Quoting Cornish (Reply 4):

It's mostly drivers that fans root for. I'm a big Dale Jr. fan, so I wear his hat and shirts occasionally. It really depends on the fan though.



ALB, DTW, ORD, MDW, MCI, JFK, LGA, LHR, MAD, MSP, IAD, DCA, MCO, ATL, CVG, TUL, MHK, PHL, PIT, DFW, DAL, CLT, IND, AUS,
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1275 times:

Quoting KstateinALB (Reply 7):

Over here if you look at some of the F1 threads for example, you'll see there are Schumacher fans or Alonso fans but quite often there are many Ferrari fans (who'll support any Ferrari driver), McLaren fans and so on. So you got a situation where Michael Schumacher was hated by all the Ferrari fans until he actually signed for the team and then once he won races for them all the fans (well most of them) loved him because it was Ferrari success that mattered.



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineAerobalance From United States of America, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 4682 posts, RR: 47
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1273 times:

Quoting Cornish (Reply 6):
And is that because Toyota didn't have a production enginer that fitted the regs,

I believe that is the case.

Quoting Cornish (Reply 6):
or was it because they went in with the intention to find an edge by building a dedicated unit ?

I'll take a clean sheet design anytime.

Quoting Cornish (Reply 6):
Either way I get the impression that NASCAR works hard on equivelency formulas to ensure that nobody gets too much of an edge.

If Toyota does it right, and they will since they have enough good 'ole boys on each team, they will slowly show their hand throughout the year in order not to ruffle the feathers of the other teams. NASCAR rules are pretty cut and dry - no equivalency formula.



"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1270 times:

Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 9):

Thanks for that AB. I'm sure I'll have a few more questions along the way  Smile



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13116 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1264 times:

Essencially since the 1980's the cars are of the same custom made body profile, size specifications and engine displacement. All have engines that are new production pushrod V-8 engines from their respective manufacturers, but for a number of years not road production engines, but for replacement or for racing. That is the closest to 'stock' in modern NASCAR. Toyota had to find a truck engine design used in the past for their cars.
Their has been a greater loyalty toward drivers rather than brand, but still there are a lot of Ford or Chevy or Dodge loyalists out there that will support any driver for the brand, especially Jr..

As to this year, I doubt that Toyota will win this, or in the first few year, but I wouldn't be surprised at a couple of top 10's. The Michael Waltrip based team had created a great shop, but with TRD making the engines. (see the ESPN.com website for an article on that).
I think with the race to the cup being expanded to 12 drivers, that will favor drivers that have a weak early to mid-season, like with Tony Stewart.
Juan Montoya I think will be competitive as the year goes on. He has won in the CART series, including the Indy 500; he had an excellent run in the F1, so he can do road racing without a substitute.
I can't wait for the Daytona 500.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1262 times:

Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 3):
Define fail please.

They'll finish 30th or worse - as a team. The driver's will not be a factor. Waltrip just ain't a Team Mananger. Hell, he's barely a driver. Did for crap in the 15 car with DEI and did for crap last year in the 55 car for himself. Michael simply isn't a factor on the track. He's not a has been . . . he's a never has been.

Quoting Cornish (Reply 4):
I always got the impression that NASCARS are in effect sillouhette racers where the technical spec under the skin is near identical and that it was the bodywork on top that differentiated each brand ? Is this the case, or does a Ford, Dodge, Chevy or now Toyota actually differ greatly under the skin ?

Yup, nothing Stock about these Stock Cars. Used to be though. A Dodge was a Dodge, a Chevy was a Chevy . . . not any longer.

Any advanced warning from anyone on new NASCAR rules?


User currently offlineAerobalance From United States of America, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 4682 posts, RR: 47
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1260 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
Any advanced warning from anyone on new NASCAR rules?

Car Of Tomorrow runs 16 races this year. Definitely a different sort of car.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
The driver's will not be a factor. Waltrip just ain't a Team Mananger. Hell, he's barely a driver. Did for crap in the 15 car with DEI and did for crap last year in the 55 car for himself. Michael simply isn't a factor on the track. He's not a has been . . . he's a never has been

I will not disagree with your assessment on MW.

Good section here, along with his other pages, I'm upset they don't mention me in the wind tunnel news  Wink All those tunnels are my customers.
http://www.jayski.com/teams/car-future.htm

[Edited 2007-01-10 19:06:55]


"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
User currently offlineCFCUQ From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 712 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1258 times:

Look for Toyota's powerplant to be a clone of the latest small block chev, with Toyota valve covers.

User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1255 times:

Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 13):
Car Of Tomorrow runs 16 races this year. Definitely a different sort of car.

With generally bad reviews IIRC from most every team.

Who's going to operate it? What team?


User currently offlineCFCUQ From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 712 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1247 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 15):
Who's going to operate it? What team?

IIRC, all teams were required to start developing their "brick" last year, with an eye to running them against each other this season, I don't think you'll see the new car mixed in with old ones. (too slow, NASCAR aiming to get the speeds down).


User currently offlineAerobalance From United States of America, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 4682 posts, RR: 47
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1245 times:

Quoting CFCUQ (Reply 14):
Look for Toyota's powerplant to be a clone of the latest small block chev, with Toyota valve covers.

</font


"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
User currently offlineCFCUQ From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 712 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1242 times:

Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 17):
Aerobalance

Ha Ha, was just thinking back to when Joe Gibbs ran the Pontiac body, all they did was slap Pontiac valve covers on a Chev small block, presto! Pontiac mill in a Pontiac body.


User currently offlineCharger From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 273 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1240 times:

Quoting Cornish (Reply 4):
I'm curious as to how similar the NASCAR cars are under the skin between the different manufacturers.

Basically they are identical. Each team may have thier own suspension set up they use but that's about it.

Quoting Cornish (Reply 4):
I always got the impression that NASCARS are in effect sillouhette racers where the technical spec under the skin is near identical and that it was the bodywork on top that differentiated each brand

They are sillouhette cars nothing more.

Quoting Cornish (Reply 4):
Also do fans tend to root more for particular teams or particular brands. In Europe you tend to be a Mercedes or Audi fan in the DTM rather than an AMG fan or Abt fan. The fans have their favourite drivers but lso their favourite cars. How about in NASCAR - drivers only, teams or car brands

There still are fans that root for a paticular make of car but I think most just root for their favorite driver.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 15):
Who's going to operate it? What team?

All the teams. They don't have a choice.


User currently offlineKstateinALB From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 749 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1228 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 11):
I doubt that Toyota will win this

I agree. It will be a shock to me if they win a race next year. Im thinking more into 2008 for their first win.

Cornish... Thanks for the input on F1. I watch it all the time here on Speed, and I see all of those fans. I'd like to hit an F1 race sometime.



ALB, DTW, ORD, MDW, MCI, JFK, LGA, LHR, MAD, MSP, IAD, DCA, MCO, ATL, CVG, TUL, MHK, PHL, PIT, DFW, DAL, CLT, IND, AUS,
User currently offlineDelta767300ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2562 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1221 times:

I cant wait for the 2007 season to start. I will be at the Daytona 500 as usual. I'm looking for my driver Tony Stewart to win his first Daytona 500 and rebound winning his 3rd Nascar Winston/Nextel Cup Championship. I hope Michael Waltrip fails to win a race or be competitive as well as the other Toyota's running. Look for Kenseth, Johnson, Kahne, Gordon, Hamlin, Harvick, Biffle, ect. to run up front and challenge for the Championship.

-Delta767300ER


User currently offlineORFflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1214 times:

I didn't really pull for any one driver last year, as I've been a Ricky Rudd fan since he started. I was leaning towards Denny Hamlin for this year, and still am planning on being a Hamlin fan, but for now I'm pulling for Ricky. (I root for the local connection in almost all sports - Rudd comes from where I live now, and Hamlim comes from where I grew up)

Great Thread BTW.

Quoting Cornish (Reply 4):
I'm curious as to how similar the NASCAR cars are under the skin between the different manufacturers.

As noted by other responses, the cars are nearly identical. Part of what is really pissing me off with NASCAR. The "stock" has left the building.

Quoting Cornish (Reply 4):
I always got the impression that NASCARS are in effect sillouhette racers where the technical spec under the skin is near identical and that it was the bodywork on top that differentiated each brand ?

 checkmark  See above.

Quoting Cornish (Reply 4):
favourite drivers

A lot of the  old  still root for the manufactures. Most fans of today however root for the driver. Hell, if Dale Jr. went out there on a Schwinn he'd still have hords of fans...  biggrin 

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
he's a never has been.

Agreed - I'll take Darell any day. I do like Michael's part of "Inside NASCAR"

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 15):
Who's going to operate it? What team?

No idea - although Rudd was going to race the 16 "COT" races for someone, I never heard which team, or can't remember if I did hear - damn alcohol.  biggrin  Now that he's signed back with Yates, he's running a full schedule. GO RUDD!!

Quoting Charger (Reply 19):
There still are fans that root for a paticular make of car but I think most just root for their favorite driver.



 checkmark 


User currently offlineAdopim88 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 2007 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1209 times:

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 1):
Not crazy about DJ cutting the 88 in half to drive the 44 (Toyota)

Me niether really.... At least his sponser is still UPS (he STILL needs to drive the truck  Smile) But it seems that he doesn't mind that he's driving a Toyota.

Quoting KstateinALB (Reply 7):
I'm a big Dale Jr. fan

Brownie points for you!

Quoting Delta767300ER (Reply 21):
I cant wait for the 2007 season to start. I will be at the Daytona 500 as usual

Good for you! That's one of the races I want to get to at some point in my life. Plus I want to get to Talladega too.

Quoting Charger (Reply 19):
There still are fans that root for a paticular make of car but I think most just root for their favorite driver.

This is so true. Jarrett and Dale Jr. were my favorite drivers in that past (despite the fact that Jarrett went way downhill since 1999). Jr drove Chevy, Jarrett drove Ford. Didn't matter to me. I guess I'll still like Jarrett, even if he's driving for Waltrip.... that's just me though.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):
Michael ain't no Darrell

 checkmark 



Early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1194 times:

Thanks for all the responses to my questions everyone.

We do actually have our own small NASCAR series here in the UK - but it is a small scale series using the Rockingham Oval (built for Champ Cars a few years back) and used NASCARs shipped over here. But it doesn't get much publicity or coverage.

So for us, the best view we get of a NASCAR is at something like the Goodwood Festival of Speed. when I've seen them there they are certainly damn impressive (if a little out of place) racing up the hill of an English stately home



And even the legend himself driving something historic....



Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 22):
As noted by other responses, the cars are nearly identical. Part of what is really pissing me off with NASCAR. The "stock" has left the building.

Which I guess has been done to make "the show" entertainment and keep all manufacturers happy. Over here in our saloon series' (DTM, WTCC, BTCC) the cars are much more different to each, but success ballast is used to keep things close and stop anyone getting too much of an advantage. It also shows those guys who win with maximum success ballast are pretty damn good....

So how do they compare in spec to something like the DTM? In that the Mercs and Audis' below race with 4 litre V8s with around 470 BHP. What do the NASCARs put out? Something similar.





I love the DTM and am fortunate that it comes to the UK. But in the DTM it is very much about supporting a make rather than a driver. It tends to be the drivers who have a reputation as a bad boy or girl on the track who tend to get the most individual support.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 11):
Juan Montoya I think will be competitive as the year goes on. He has won in the CART series, including the Indy 500; he had an excellent run in the F1, so he can do road racing without a substitute.

I will be interested to see how he does. DTM has had its share of ex-F1 drivers race in it subsequently - Keke Rosberg, Jean Alesi, and most notably ex World Champ Mika Hakkinen has joined the series. Hakkinen has done well and won races but he is by no means the team leader at Merc - he has learned it's a very different discipline and that he is up against guys who have raced in this form of the sport for many years. He's appreciate dthat even as a double F1 champ he's had a lot to learn.

For Montoya it will be the same. He's got experience of the US ovals but not the cars - and stock car racing on an oval is very different to open wheel - you don't go touching each other's cars in open wheelers for starters. But Montoya is MUCH more aggresive than the average open wheel racer, so he'll have no problems on that score once he's learned the hard way. He'll give as good as he gets. And he'll be quick. But what he won't be I suspect is consistent. That was one thing he wasn't in F1 for sure.



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
25 ORFflyer : Small block V8s with about 600HP I believe. What is "sucess ballast"?
26 Cornish : Thanks. And what sort of weight are the cars ? Ballast is added to drivers' cars who finished in the top positions in the previous race meetings (our
27 ORFflyer : NASCAR cars weigh in at about 3500lbs. Thanks for the info on ballast. Interesting way to equalize the field.
28 Cornish : It does tend to lead to championships staying interesting until the last race. It got introduced when certain series would find that come the last ra
29 Post contains images KaiGywer : NASCAR is just a bunch of drunk rednecks watching cars drive around in a circle and drinking beer!
30 Post contains images ORFflyer : And.....
31 Aerobalance : 358 CID, 900 hp
32 Post contains images Adopim88 : I agree, what exactly is the problem here?
33 Aerobalance : On restrictor plate tracks it's 475-500 hp
34 Charger : The Chase will change to include 12 drivers regardless of points. More points may be awarded to race winners also. Yeah and really ugly too. What a s
35 ORFflyer : It's all about the money nowadays....
36 KstateinALB : I can't say it will be a bad thing until I see it racing against other cars in Bristol in March. That race will pretty much decide if it's a good car
37 Post contains links Charger : For anyone interested there is a great site, www.jayski.com It covers everything NASCAR, and gives alot of news, rule changes and team info.
38 Post contains images ORFflyer : Great site - thanks. Rudd fastest in practice so far - GO RICKY, GO RICKY!!
39 Post contains images GQfluffy : Even though the UK, and some of Europe for that matter, speak english, there's no way y'all would be able to understand what they're saying. Anyone e
40 FlyDeltaJets87 : If any of you NASCAR fans are coming to Daytona for the 500, let me know. I go to school right on the other side of the runway seperating the school f
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