FlyBoeing From United States of America, joined May 2000, 866 posts, RR: 2 Posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 356 times:
I've noticed that some users blame the U.S for supporting Israel while Israeli troops kill Palestinian children.
I think that those who blame the U.S should realize that a U.S committment to the security of Israel does not neccesarily translate to condoning Israeli tactics and racism. We can see it in the sort of aid that we give Israel: Apache helicopters and F-16s and M-113s are all more appropriate to defense against Syria, Jordan, and other enemies.
And the President has been slapping Israel down for some of the more egregious violations of human rights like bulldozing random houses in response to mortar attacks.
We don't control Israel. We have interests in our ally's security.
I think that Israel, for all its faults, is like the U.S prior to the civil rights movement - a democracy in name with some glaring inequities. These glaring inequities do not mean that Israel ought to be destroyed, they mean that Israel ought to be reformed. Israel is a better nation for the U.S to be friends with than most of the repressive Arab nations. Some democracy is better than no democracy.
You can't just say that since the Israeli government repress Palestinians that Palestinian terror attacks against civilians are a legitimate form of speech. It is in inevitable response based on human nature but it is NOT a legitimate response. It isn't. Moreover, it isn't effective in changing Israel's mind. It doesn't attack them financially or undermine their economy. And it doesn't even attack those who are neccesarily responsible for the repression.
Similarly, Israeli collective punishment against Palestinian civilians doesn't fix the situation. Who is to say that you stop terrorist attacks by hurting the people who aren't responsible for this sort of thing?
So if terror doesn't serve peace, what does it serve? It serves domestic factions within both sides - the settlers and other Orthodox Jews in the Likud Party, and it keeps Yasser Arafat from getting overthrown by HAMAS.
I think the U.S ought to skip supporting either side and start putting its considerable resources towards putting decent peace-minded people into power on both the Israeli side and the Arab side.
TWAneedsNOhelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 315 times:
CPDC10-30,
What a simple, yet absurd statement!
Israel gave a chance for "cooler heads" to prevail. Remember it was Israelis who booted out hardline Benjamin Netanyahu for that cooler head Ehud Barak who was ready to give the Palestinians much of what they wanted, including parts of Israel proper, most of the WB, all of Gaza, and East Jerusalem.
How did they thank him? Intifadah, intifadah, intifadah.
So don't chide the Israelis for not trying to get cooler heads into the debate, they did, and they didn't get much for it. However, that model of democracy and human rights, the Palestinian Authority, has had the same virulent, violent, Anti Israeli powermonger in charge for close to 30 years.
LY772 From Israel, joined Aug 2001, 1340 posts, RR: 3 Reply 3, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 312 times:
My country has suffered because of the Palestinians. I don't hate them becauase they are Palestinians, I hate them because of what they do. A great Prime Minister was murdered because he attempted to help these people. (Yitzhak Rabin Z"L)
A great Prime Minister was outed by his own government after he was willing to give Arafat 99.5% of what they wanted.
I don't have a jacket: "Dad, I'm going to the mall to get a jacket for the winter" and my dad says "You're not going to any mall while we have terrorists running around our city"
Sometimes, they say on the radio, "we have reports of terrorists in Haifa" and it's true. A terrorist passed by Tzahal checkpoints and we know he's in Haifa. Bad, uh?
ADG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 301 times:
Flyboeing,
I think the U.S ought to skip supporting either side and start putting its considerable resources towards putting decent peace-minded people into power on both the Israeli side and the Arab side.
I couldn't agree more. Lets hope more Americans see your point of view and perhaps peace will be achieved in the Middle East.
Tbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7011 posts, RR: 28 Reply 5, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 292 times:
It doesn't attack them financially or undermine their economy.
Just have to disagree with this. Israel's economy is suffering since the intefada began. International companies are pulling out of Israel, tourism is at a drastic low, El Al (yes, even aviation) is taking some hard blows from all this, and the consumer economy is doing very poorly. I don't think it is just coincidentally times with the intefada.
The violence by the Palestinians is scaring consumers, both domestically and especially internationally.
ADG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 293 times:
Tbar,
You don't think that perhaps the global downturn in tourism and the move in the USA into recession might have something to do with the slump in the airline industry?
ElAl isn't the only airline that is suffering at the moment.
I'd suggest it has more to do with Sep 11th and the falling out of the sky (or shooting down) of planes recently than a couple of suicide bombers.
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