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Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake  
User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1185 times:

From Reuters:

DUBAI (Reuters) - Washington's allies were quick to judge the latest videotape of Osama bin Laden to be final proof of his guilt on Thursday, but in the Arab world many dismissed the footage as false propaganda.

While some senior Arab officials declared themselves convinced, it was harder to find ordinary citizens who did and most governments in the region maintained silence on the issue.

``I think this recording is forged ... I don't believe this tape is authentic,'' said Sheikh Mohammad Saleh, a Saudi cleric.

Ali, a Saudi civil servant, concurred. ``The picture is real but the voice is not. It could be a voice over,'' he said. He had to watch the videotape on a regional satellite station as Saudi state television failed to broadcast it.

``Do the Americans really think the world is that stupid to think that they would believe that this tape is evidence?'' asked Abdul Latif Arabiat, head of Jordan's mainstream Islamist party the Islamic Action Front.

``In my view this tape has been fabricated by Washington to condemn bin Laden and conceal America's ugly crimes in Afghanistan,'' said Yousef Abdul Hamid, an Amman taxi driver.

A less skeptical Bahraini man said: ``If the recording was real, it only adds that bin Laden was aware of the incident but not necessarily that he had planned it.''

``It is possible that another group was behind it but had informed bin Laden about their plan,'' he concluded from the muffled tape, which was accompanied by an official U.S. translation which some Arabs described as inaccurate.

Many in the Islamic world choose to believe theories that the September 11 attacks were a plot by Israeli secret services to discredit Muslims.

----

To be fair, the Emirates made it officially clear that the UAE's position is the tape proves bin Laden's guilt... and I'm certain there are a great number of Arabs who know the guy's hands are filthy with this murder.

Still, sad to see that in a large part of the Middle East a truly abomnidable scumbag (who as we've seen kills Muslims with apparent ease, and orders his legions to their death as he cowers alive & well in caves) is still viewed as some heroic Pied Piper taking Islam mightily into the future. That notion is simply a pile of powdered camel s**t.

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineI Like To Fly From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1188 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1120 times:

To be honest, I don't care what those people believe. They can think what they want, we know the tape is authentic and that Bin Laden is a worthless piece of garbage that will be rotting in hell soon. I mean really... who cares? They can go chant in their streets that America sucks all day long, I know my street is a lot better than there's anyway. If they decide to get violent and blow up parts of our country then they can expect to see our wonderful military up close. Just my $.02. Smile/happy/getting dizzy

User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1117 times:

I feel somewhere along the lines of ILikeToFly. With the delay of showing the tape, I personally thought about the fact the tape could be doctored, but I also understand the tape had to be deciphered as well. I believe in the tape, and as for the "Arab World" that disagrees, I will do something different for a change, and not say anything, because I don't think I could comment, and remain civil.

User currently offlineMcringring From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1093 times:

There really was no point in releasing the tape. Those who know he is guilty will continue to believe so and those who still think this was some kind of hoax by the US so we could have a reason to bomb Afghanistan will say the tape was fake. The tape did nothing for me. I knew Osama was a dirtbag before I saw him laughing about the thousands of people who were killed.

Isn't it odd that Mohammed Atta's father still claims his son had no part in this. I guess his son is just on "vacation." Funny almost...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38654-2001Dec13.html

The father, Mohamed al-Amir al-Sayed Awad Atta, said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press that he had not seen the tape, but declared it a "farce. All this is a forgery, a fabrication!"

"The whole world has been saying this name (Mohammed Atta). Where did bin Laden get the name from? Bin Laden got it from America," Atta said.

"America is the land of aberration and forgery," the father said, shouting "damn America!" before abruptly hanging up.



User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1078 times:

Denial......I guess it just isn't a river in Egypt anymore is it.


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineHepkat From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 2341 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1085 times:

Ok, I have to admit, when I first heard about this tape, I was very skeptical. CNN just showed it, in most of its entirety, and I have to say, I am 90% convinced it is real.

Let me explain. I spent three years living with my aunt, who is a detective, and I guess during that time I learned a lot from her. Things just don't happen coincidentally like this. Trust me. It sounds just too good to be true. What are the possibilties that we would find a tape which has Osama confessing to every single charge we have against him, and so freely? I've watched it over and over again, and although I believe it's most likely genuine, a part of me cannot believe the coincidental nature of it. And, why is the voice out of sync with the video? It looks like it was recorded using modern equipment, but I've never heard of a camcorder recording the voice out of sync with the picture, maybe one from the seventies, but surely not a modern piece of equipment. And I guess the most burning question of all is, why would Osama allow himself to videotaped, knowing the enormous bounty on his head? Ego perhaps? It just doesn't add up. I know I'll probably get flamed for this post, but I'm simply trying to think objectively while remaining detached from the outcome. Although I have to say, if it is a fake, it's a damn good one!

I would be interested in seeing a voice spectrum analysis of this, as well as having the shadows on the video analyzed.

Overall, I found the contents most disgusting. Anyone who would commission such a massacre, and delight in the results deserves to pay extraordinary retribution.


User currently offlineMcringring From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1058 times:

I think the sound is bad for 2 reasons.

1. The equipment is shit: bad camera, bad audio, bad tape.
2. The microphones on such camcorders are AWFUL. Microphones on most cameras are bad, even the highest end ones. The guy with the camera was sitting in a medium sized room and he wasn't very close to bin Laden, et al. There were also other people in the room who were not on camera and the noise from them further distorted the sound.

I really don't think bin Laden cared about being taped. He was guilty and he knew it. He knew that we knew it. This videotape would make no difference no matter who found it.

Who knows, maybe I'm wrong. I don't think this tape changes anything.


User currently offlineI Like To Fly From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1188 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1052 times:

Hepkat, if I wasn't so lazy & busy I would argue most of your post... but I am both lazy & busy so I will just point out something I found amusing:

It looks like it was recorded using modern equipment...

Gee, that makes sense! You go on & on about the poor quality but it still "looks" like it was on modern equipment. Where do you get "looks"??? I don't recall a shot pointed in a mirror where you could see the camera. My guess is it was shitty equipment that has been sitting around a desert for years on equal quality tape... what do you expect? And it is also a well known fact Bin Laden likes to be video taped. I do agree the timing is almost too good, but you can't convince me it's a fake.


User currently offlineFlyguy1 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1738 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1045 times:

Im gonna side with KROC, and not say anything. Otherwise whatever I would say, will get me kicked off this forum.


727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 9, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1045 times:

"...still viewed as some heroic Pied Piper taking Islam mightily into the future."

Heavymetal, please explain how you came to this conclusion, from this article, for some reason, I did not.

Separately, I wonder why they do not want to release this tape to the public, even if it is authentic? Should they be so concerned we all drew different conclusions?

lehpron



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineMcringring From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1039 times:

They DID release the tape... TODAY.  Sleepy

User currently offlineCPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4781 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1011 times:

The CBC has just interviewed some of the translators, and there is no way it was modified. They said there was no disagreement between them on the content of the tape. Case in point is how it was broadcast in its exact form, without being edited to skip past irrelevant parts.

User currently offlineMcringring From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1006 times:

No disagreement? I'm sorry, but I disagree  Big grin

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39995-2001Dec13.html


User currently offlineClipperHawaii From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2033 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 988 times:

These people are just living in the 13th century. What do you expect? Unfortunatly like cockroaches, they will be with us till the end of time. (Where is my shoe?)
Aloha my friends! ClipperHawaii



"You Can't Beat The Experience"
User currently offlineAirlinelover From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 5580 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 963 times:

I am just curious as to WHY they (UBL and friends) had the tape made in the first place.. Just seems stupid, considering the possible RISKS..

chris



Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 952 times:

'Arab World' says it is a fake?

Nonsense - a couple of Arabs said it was a fake, that's all. Some French people, a few Canadians, a couple of Brits and half a dozen Russians also probably think its forged!

Please stop using every opportunity to demonise the Islamic world.



I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
User currently offlineTWAMERICAN From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 943 times:

Surely, an educated guy like you Ryan knows that Arab and "Islamic" are not synonymous with one another.

admit that your wrong and I might forgive you.


User currently offlineLY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 927 times:

Glad to hear that you and your aunt (I thought it was your grandma, for some reason) are finally satisfied. It's about time you realized what the rest of the world knew three months ago. "Thinking objectively"....  Insane

LY744.



Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 918 times:

Lehpron,

If I indicated that I came to that conclusion from just this article (which I don't think I did but alas), I erred. One need only to visit even "moderate" Middle Eastern news websites to see what kid gloves are being used on bin Laden, and to understand why. Because the statement I made is correct.

I'll also add, in case you go there which I think you might, that I'm not defending the status quo in Middle Eastern countries. Does this region NEED a dynamic visionary to pull it out of repression and abuse? Sure. The fat cat shieks and princes with their fleets of casino-bound 747s are as much to blame for this imbicilic notion on the Arab Street as bin Laden is. But he is clearly insane, clearly homicidal and clearly a despot in the mold of no less than a certain starving artist from Vienna. A large chunk of the Muslim world mistakes his vision for the future as the right one....sadly, because at least he has a vision, unlike the contented ruling class too blind (or frightened) to offer one.


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 913 times:

'Arab World' says it is a fake?

Nonsense - a couple of Arabs said it was a fake, that's all. Some French people, a few Canadians, a couple of Brits and half a dozen Russians also probably think its forged!

Please stop using every opportunity to demonise the Islamic world.


More than just " a couple of Arabs...", Ryan. You know that and I know that. I watched interviews yesterday with dozens upon dozens of people living in the Middle East, and, with few exceptions, everyone of them didn't think the tape was real, or was somehow doctored. Does that represent ALL people in the Middle East? Of course not. But you'll find, no doubt, that the majority of Arabs/Muslims around the world will not believe the tape is legitimate. Some because they adore this mutt bin Laden, some simply because of a lifetime of distrust of the American goverment.

Please stop using every opportunity to apologize for the Islamic world.


User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 880 times:

Islam=arab? since when?

I notice our pro-taliban, pro-bin laden pro-death of israel friends have been keping quite, especially air male who i remember rightl stated that the attack was the israeli secret service!



It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 874 times:

Alpha 1.

Of course the Western media would NEVER misrepresent a story to sell papers, would it?  Big grin

Stop trying to make all Muslims your enemy.

Still, once this whole Bin Laden thing blows over you will probably be on at the Chinese.....



I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
User currently offlineTwaneedsnohelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 841 times:

frat boy  Confused

User currently offlineTwa902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3125 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 834 times:

even if the tape is fake... we all know he did it.


life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3681 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 796 times:

I have no idea if it's fake or not, but please give your reasons to be so sure it's not.
BinLaden dosen't look that stupid to "forget" a tape with him talking about the attacks, and in the same time hiding and denying his responsibility.
And Twa902fly, nearly the same question: How can you be so sure it's him (and only him) ?


25 L-188 : All we know is that the tape was found in a house in Kandahar. It doesn't mean it was in Binnies posession. Besides if you had to leave someplace in a
26 Alpha 1 : He's not stupid, Sebolino, you are correct in that assertion. I think he's got like a Master's Degree in Engineering. But you're talking also about a
27 Delta-flyer : Whether the tape is fake or not does not matter. To some, it is fake, regardless of any evidence that it is real. To others, the opposite is true. The
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