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Ford Loses $12.7 Billion  
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1424 times:

Ford Motor Co. posted a net loss of $12.7 billion, or $6.79 a share, in 2006.
That tops Ford’s worst year on record, which was 1992, when the automaker posted a $7.39-billion loss. It also tops General Motors Corp.’s $10.6 billion loss in 2005.

Ford’s staggering, historic loss comes after the company bled $5.8 billion, or $3.05 per share, during the last three months of the year. That was on top of the $7 billion in losses through September.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...?AID=/20070125/BUSINESS01/70125006

And in related news:

Foreclosures soar in 2006


Home foreclosure filings surged to record levels across metro Detroit in 2006, adding to the misery of a region already suffering the effects of a sagging job market, plant closures and layoffs.

RealtyTrac Vice President Rick Sharga, whose company follows foreclosure rates nationwide, called it "the perfect storm" for Michigan -- a situation in which slow housing sales, loss of income and increasing monthly payments are bringing the house down on homeowners

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...D=/20070125/NEWS05/701250332&imw=Y


But the good news?:

Doughnut chain adding stores
60 new outlets mean franchise opportunity
January 25, 2007


Dunkin' Donuts Inc., the nation's largest doughnut chain, plans to double its presence in metro Detroit by adding 60 stores during the next five years.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...BUSINESS06/701250323/1002/BUSINESS

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13012 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1413 times:

ITS THE CRAPPY CARS!!!! When the only way to move the iron is offer huge rebates, that should tell you something. Last August, I bought a Mazda 6. [Note that Mazda is largely owned by Ford] and I got $3,500 in total rebates. That means Ford sold the car for about a $2,000 loss. Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Subaru almost never have to offer rebates and their dealers don't have to discount as much to sell cars - why? they make and have made cars with the reliability and quality that people want. To most people, they want their cars to be as reliable as a refrigerator and less about the looks - I mean, is the Honda Accord a 'good looking' car? Not really.
One of the biggest costs for Ford, GM and Chrysler for their USA ops retirees, something that is about $1,000 per car. Such losses are probably the source of their most of their losses. Toyota, Honda, Nissan are all non-union, started making cars in the USA after 1980, and are not obligated to pay for such costs.
Another issue for Ford, GM and Chrysler, is fleet sales. You almost never see a Honda for rent at Hertz or Avis. They don't need to sell to fleets to keep their lines active and in turn sell at losses to cover the costs to operate it at suitiable efficiency. It might be better for Ford/GM/Chrysler to stop selling to fleets unless they get the price they need to stay in business themselves.
When several years of multi-billion losses continue for GM/Ford/Chrysler, then they will fail, destroying the lives of millions, states like Michigan and the USA's economy. Perhaps the only way is to have a single-payer government controlled health care system releiving employers of that burdern, especially for retirees.


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1407 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 1):
ITS THE CRAPPY CARS!!!!

I beg to differ. It is no longer a true quality issue, but a perception of quality.

US car makers have improved the quality of their cars to a point where they match many of the imports.

The problem is, Ford, GM and DCX lost their good names years ago, and no matter how much they have improved, people still see them as "crappy cars".


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1402 times:

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
I beg to differ. It is no longer a true quality issue, but a perception of quality.

US car makers have improved the quality of their cars to a point where they match many of the imports.

The problem is, Ford, GM and DCX lost their good names years ago, and no matter how much they have improved, people still see them as "crappy cars".

That is exactly it. I love when someone jumps right to the "its the crappy cars" bit. The main thing hampering U.S. Auto makers at this point is the price of their product. If they can get their labor costs down, then the pricing should become more competitive. I've driven nothing but Ford or GM products and I have had no major problems with my cars.


User currently offlineORFflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1388 times:

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
US car makers have improved the quality of their cars to a point where they match many of the imports.

I almost agree, but to get there, the prices are way out of proportion IMO. And I think it's mostly due to union labor. We have a Ford F150 assembly plant about two miles from my house, most of my drinking buddies work there. Or at least for now - Ford is shutting it down early next year citing among other things, labor cost. They have people sweeping the damn floor that make nearly as much as a MCSE for crying out loud.

Quoting KROC (Reply 3):
The main thing hampering U.S. Auto makers at this point is the price of their product. If they can get their labor costs down, then the pricing should become more competitive. I've driven nothing but Ford or GM products and I have had no major problems with my cars.

 checkmark  Us too, but maybe not any longer. I have an F150, (second one) and my wife drives a Chevy Impala. We're going to be giving the car to our son this summer, and are starting to look for a new car for her. I'm not at all hell-bent on looking at just American, whereas until now, I wouldn't have considered anything but in the past.


User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1386 times:

So where are the armchair CEOs who demanded UA, AA, US, DL, and NW shut thier doors because of the losses they had, and why aren't they demanding Ford just close?

User currently offlineORFflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1383 times:

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 5):
So where are the armchair CEOs who demanded UA, AA, US, DL, and NW shut thier doors because of the losses they had,

Try Civ-Av. Big grin


User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1361 times:

The big problem here, besides your labor costs, is the products that the Americans offer.

Ford, GM, and Chrysler relied to heavily on gas-guzzling SUVs and Pickups, and once gas prices started going up, people looked at smaller cars. The final blow could have been started in the aftermath of Katrina and last spring (when the phaseout of MTBE to ethanol occurred).

Unfortunately, only now have the Big Three realized that SUV bubble has begun to bust, and are now starting to concentrate on more fuel-efficient crossovers.

Don't believe me, then explain the correlation of auto sales when gas prices go up; the American Big Three hurt, and the Asian Big Three report higher sales.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39667 posts, RR: 75
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1348 times:

Why is Ford wasting so much money in renaming there cars?
What was the point of renaming the Zephyr to the Mark Z after only 1 model year?
Why did they bring back another Lincoln pick up truck (Mark LT) after the Blackwood failed miserably?
Why are they wasting money with a Five Hundred-based Lincoln calling it the Mark S?
Why are they letting the Mercury brand sit idle?
All of the above are major blunders that Ford has put tons of money in to marketing.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineRaffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1713 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1342 times:

Ford cars are so cheap inside! I hate the naff plastics. In the UK, they are just normal run of the mill things- nothing to set them apart and generally regarded as the poor mans car!


Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39667 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1337 times:

Quoting Raffik (Reply 9):
In the UK, they are just normal run of the mill things- nothing to set them apart and generally regarded as the poor mans car!

Ford does own Rover and Jaguar which is far from a run of the mill poor mans car.

[Edited 2007-01-25 16:52:59]


Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1314 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 8):
Why did they bring back another Lincoln pick up truck (Mark LT) after the Blackwood failed miserably?

Exactly. WTF? And why buy one anyhow? If you want pick up, buy an F-250. They come with leather. Look at some of the high line F-250s -- wow. If you want a Lincoln, buy a Town Car.

And to those who say crappy cars, I can not count the number of Crown Vics and Town Cars I've ridden in with 300 and even 400 thousand miles on them. Like DTW says, its now the perception of quality.


User currently offlinePSA53 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3052 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1277 times:

I sold my shares in Ford and made a small profit today.When you have 79 million shares traded on F, you could have a lot of short sell people lining up
in anticipating Ford going south even more so.But the stock is rather tame
considering the bad news.I decided to sit on the sidelines for a month or two.

I hope Ford can bounce back.I'm still going to buy a F-150 in the summer.



Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1267 times:

Quoting Raffik (Reply 9):
Ford cars are so cheap inside! I hate the naff plastics. In the UK, they are just normal run of the mill things- nothing to set them apart and generally regarded as the poor mans car!

Not any more. That might have been true a few years back, but Ford's European products are as good as anything else on the road in its price bracket. The Mondeo and Focus are both outstanding cars, which is why it's something of a puzzle that the parent company do churn out cars of lesser quality (and certainly lesser in terms of technological expertise) in the US.

But it'd be interesting to see the breakdown of where the losses are: Are they in the US, or the rest of the world, or both?



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39667 posts, RR: 75
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1262 times:

Quoting Banco (Reply 13):
But it'd be interesting to see the breakdown of where the losses are: Are they in the US, or the rest of the world, or both?

Good question.
I doubt its with there fleet sales. I know that is there cash cow. Perhaps they should come out with more models based on these successful lines of vehicles.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1250 times:

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 4):
And I think it's mostly due to union labor.

No it can't be labor costs, building cars in Mexico resulted in a savings of less than $700 per unit, taken with the avg price of a automobile in the United States today is $27,000, the savings just isn't there.

Union contracts do need to be reworked..how can you pay full salaries if they aren't working???Retiree medical, the government will need to finally get serious and come up with a plan for ALL business.


User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1232 times:

Quoting AirCop (Reply 15):
No it can't be labor costs, building cars in Mexico resulted in a savings of less than $700 per unit, taken with the avg price of a automobile in the United States today is $27,000, the savings just isn't there.

You are confusing the issue. The relevant statistic isn't gross revenue, it's gross profit. Revenue - Cost of Good Manufactured/Sold. If the average gross profit on the car is $2,000 (I don't know what it really is but just use the figure for an example), then increasing that figure by $700 is a 35% increase. I don't know how many other changes you could make that could increase gross profit by 35%.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39667 posts, RR: 75
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1229 times:

Quoting Pope (Reply 16):
You are confusing the issue. The relevant statistic isn't gross revenue, it's gross profit. Revenue - Cost of Good Manufactured/Sold. If the average gross profit on the car is $2,000 (I don't know what it really is but just use the figure for an example), then increasing that figure by $700 is a 35% increase. I don't know how many other changes you could make that could increase gross profit by 35%.

You forgot to blame Clinton.  Silly



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1228 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
You forgot to blame Clinton.

Which one?


User currently offlinePSA53 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3052 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1215 times:

Quoting Pope (Reply 18):
Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
You forgot to blame Clinton.



Quoting Pope (Reply 18):
Which one?

George!




Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39667 posts, RR: 75
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1212 times:

PSA53:
LOL!  rotfl 



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 958 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1212 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 8):
Why are they letting the Mercury brand sit idle?

Why are they using the Mercury brand at all? Ford has seven brands, what distinct purpose does Mercury serve today?

The Ford Motor Co. is using an entire brand to fill a niche that could served with an additional trim line in their existing product line-up. It's the exact sort of inefficiency and brand dilution that is killing Ford.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39667 posts, RR: 75
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1195 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 21):
Why are they using the Mercury brand at all? Ford has seven brands, what distinct purpose does Mercury serve today?

I think Ford should pump more blood in to the Mercury division and give it more distinct styling. Mercury should have retro car on the market, perhaps another Breezeway sedan?
Mercury should go after Audi, Acura and Infiniti.
Lincoln needs to return to the high-end luxury market. Same for Cadillac, just as the next Chrysler Imperial will compete in that class.
The big three has just about given up to Mercedes S-class and bmw 7 series.
It was foolish for Ford to kill the Lincoln Continental concept car that was supposed to come out in 2004.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineORFflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1195 times:

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 12):
I hope Ford can bounce back.I'm still going to buy a F-150 in the summer.

I recommend it is assembled in a plant other than Norfolk. Quality here hasn't been the same since they announced the closing. Or so I've heard.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 15):
Union contracts do need to be reworked..how can you pay full salaries if they aren't working???Retiree medical, the government will need to finally get serious and come up with a plan for ALL business.

Good point. I'm obviously not a fan of unions, and I think reworked is tame, but certainly a start.


User currently offlineLijnden From Netherlands, joined Apr 2003, 561 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1181 times:
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I cannot even buy an American made Ford anymore here in NL. Since 2003 Ford USA is not making anymore cars for the European market. Ford thinks that I will buy a Volvo XC90 or Range Rover when I replace my 2003 Ford Explorer Limited Edition V8 this year. They are so very wrong! (the mentioned cars are in the same price range here in NL; € 70000,= to € 85000,= and are build by Fords' sister companies)

As far as quality I can only say that my Ford USA car never gave me any problem and that the car is still driving like new after 100000 km of brutal roads, high speeds and severe weather conditions. I do have to say that my Ford USA was factory made for EU-export with all the specs. The only bad thing is fuel economy, but that is not new.



Be kind to animals!
25 Superfly : I'd like to see Ford & Mercury bring back the large station wagon to be based off there existing panther platform (Crown Victoria, Grand Marquis, Town
26 Post contains links David L : Ironically, the people I knew who always swore by Ford in the days of the bland Escorts, Fiestas, Granadas, etc., which I hated, finally seemed to ge
27 Aerobalance : We will have to wait and see, what platforms will help them achieve profitability?
28 Superfly : Can't speak for the Escorts and Fiestas fans but the Granada's were terrific cars and everyone I've known thats owned/own one gave raving reviews of
29 AirCop : The crap that Ford built in Mexico (Ford Escort and its Mercury counterpart) couldn't be sold for a profit even with the Mexican labor, but Ford had
30 Superfly : ...and because Ford makes the best trucks, best full-sized sedans which are on the lower scale for mpg, they need to churn out a lot of junk on the l
31 Raffik : Both of which use British designs and build quality. Before I purchased my new car in September, I went to see my local Chrysler garage. Oh my God, t
32 Aerobalance : Turn those into hybrid powertrains and get rid of the low end crap.
33 Superfly : Are you joking?
34 DL021 : Does anyone know where they saw it last? I'll help them look for it. The worst thing is that they've now mortgaged the entire set of fixed assets inc
35 Aerobalance : No - do you have a better idea to help raise their dismal around town gas mileage figures?[Edited 2007-01-26 00:50:59]
36 Post contains images David L : Are we talking about the same Granadas? The UK ones I experienced here were obviously better than the Escort and Fiesta but far too plasticky for an
37 Superfly : No I was refering to the mid-sized sedans and coupes sold here in the USA. They weren't sold in Europe. Well they could always put in smaller crappie
38 Post contains images EclipseFlight7 : Old people? If grandma gets going at 30 miles an hour in the fast lane, its going to be a quarter of a mile before she realizes she might have to bra
39 Aloges : Have neither of you heard of the Jaguar X-Type? That's the same platform as a Ford Mondeo... not the way to go if you want to keep the charisma of a
40 Post contains links Dtwclipper : How easily people forget how bad Jag was. "Out of control expenses and horrible quality had doomed Jaguar, which desperately needed to be rescued. Fo
41 Halls120 : This crushing burden will likely kill off the big 3. Way to go unions, you've successfully killed the goose that lays the golden egg. That is definit
42 Stretch 8 : It all begins and ends with the product. Ford has suffered this year due to many people delaying or skipping the purchase of an F-150 truck or Explore
43 David L : Very true but... ... doesn't that apply to all models? To a certain extent I agree with Aloges about the X-Type: I guess it does make the brand avail
44 PanAmOldDC8 : Gentlemen, you have missed the point the cost associated with their production is a lot higher than the imports in addition to all the extras that th
45 Superfly : No keep Mercury!
46 Flight152 : Why? Mercury has no product that Ford doesn't sell. Their rebadging is even worse then GM. I don't see what purpose it serves. Reminds me of Oldsmobi
47 Post contains links and images PHLBOS : That was the main reason why a diesel engine was offered as an option on the Escort during the mid-80s. IMHO, that option became available 2 to 3 yea
48 Superfly : Well aware of that. Mercury needs to stick around and set it's self apart from Ford in terms of styling. The GM divisons are more distictive but all
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