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Humvees Driving Crazy In Baghdad!  
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2273 times:

Look at this video:

http://www.stern.de/politik/ausland/...bsen%21-%DCberholen%21/581259.html

GTA anybody??

Like this is going to help. If people want to blow up a US vehicle, they'll just put a car of with explosives on the streets and wait until a US convoy tries to push them off the road. However, if an occupation army behaves like this, they shouldn't be surprised when people to more than forming a fist in their pocket.

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3704 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2273 times:
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Quoting Thorben (Thread starter):
Like this is going to help. If people want to blow up a US vehicle, they'll just put a car of with explosives on the streets and wait until a US convoy tries to push them off the road. However, if an occupation army behaves like this, they shouldn't be surprised when people to more than forming a fist in their pocket.

I agree that this isn't the best behavior. The US doesn't stop for a reason when they're driving, but damaging private property shouldn't be an intentional part of the routine.



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2263 times:

What I forgot to add: How can they call this a patrol? What are they controlling? Nothing I would say, they are so busy trying to not get hit themselves that they can't do anything for the protection of the population.

Is there a good English word for "Spießrutenlauf"??


User currently offlineRammstein From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2254 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 2):
Nothing I would say, they are so busy trying to not get hit themselves that they can't do anything for the protection of the population.

Actually, they pose a risk for themself and also the population.

And, not last, I'm sure this behavior is perceived as arrogant by the population, no need to wonder why.

[Edited 2007-01-27 20:31:48]

User currently offlineCoz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2243 times:

I can understand the need to drive like this, but no wonder so many Iraqis absolutely hate the US.

User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2236 times:

Quoting Thorben (Thread starter):

I hate to use the term, "You simply don't know what you're talking about." But it absolutely applies in this situation. You don't know what you're talking about.  no 

So let me educate you:

The most dangerous position for the convoy to be in, is a dead stop. And it's NOT just car bombs to worry about, Thorben. When you have halted, you are now more vulnerable to the following:

-Snipers.
-People (even children) throwing grenades. Do not forget the gunner's hatch is open on the roof.
-Small arms fire.
-Insurgents using vehicles to "trap" you in a box, where they can attack you.
-RPGs

With movement and speed, comes increased safety. It's as simple as that.

Each HWMMV has signs that order other motorists to stay clear from anywhere between 50-200feet (city dependent). The tactic of "never stopping" has been in place for over two years, the Iraqis are well familiar with it. The troops have orders not to use excessive ramming - and that video shows he was "tapping" them. He certainly could have used more force.

And here is the kicker: Any damage American troops cause - whether it's kicking down your door, ruining your crops by landing a helicopter in your field, accidentally killing your herd, OR GETTING YOUR CAR RAMMED... you can get financial reimbursement from the US military.

But all of that aside: the fact that this tactic has proven to save GI's lives... it's worth a bunch of dented fenders.

-UH60


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2214 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 2):
What I forgot to add: How can they call this a patrol? What are they controlling? Nothing I would say, they are so busy trying to not get hit themselves that they can't do anything for the protection of the population.

Again... you don't know what's going on.

That wasn't an area patrol. That was most likely one of the following: a supply convoy transiting to another base. Or a convoy moving to/from an objective. Each unit is given a mission in a specific zone.... it can be a weapons cache search, it can be a road block, a road-side check point, etc... but they need to transit from the base to the zone of operations.

During this transit, they cannot become bogged down in traffic... nor are they suppose to "patrol". Their objective is to get to their destination on time, and most importantly - fully intact.

A vehicle mounted patrol is conducted differently than what was seen in the video. The patrol remains mobile and travels on selected routes. They're mobile until trouble arises, at which point troops unmount and proceed on foot. Totally different than what you're watching here.

-UH60


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2195 times:

Are you trying to get US troops killed!?!?

There is a concept that you need to understand. Exposure.

The longer you are sitting out there the more likely that somebody will find the time to take a shot at you. You want to keep moving, not sitting still in a traffic jam. Also keep in mind that on most highways and autobahns in the world you don't have to worry about the car next to you going boom (Except maybe in Detroit).

Somebody who is overthere might want to check, but I believe that it is posted that Coalition forces vehicles have the right of way...in fact if you watch the video several cars yeild to the right before the truck gets up to them. It is only the ones that don't that get a love tap.


Oh and one other thought.....if you ain't rubbing you ain't racing!!!

Which is why F1 sucks!



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineTurbo7x7 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 266 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2171 times:

It's damned if you do and damned if you don't, which is all part and parcel of being stuck in a quagmire.

If a convoy slows down and is more "respectful" of traffic, they make themselves easier targets.

Of course, the other way tends to spark resentment for "the occupiers" by the locals.

It's all part of the Catch-22 of occupational and counterinsurgency warfare.

Interestingly, the insurgents/militias/death squads continue to learn and adapt. It seems they are stealing American SUVs (or acquiring them through corrupt channels) and imitating the way U.S. convoys drive in order to penetrate areas they couldn't get into before.

And so the quagmire trudges ever on. . .


User currently offlineFumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2154 times:

Whats wrong with the way they're driving??!!

Signed,
Phoenix


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7953 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2128 times:

Thorben, while I agree that this is not an appropriate way to win the Iraqi's hearts, it's obvious that they don't do it for fun and have no choice. Plus, I could imagine it's well in your interest not to have a military vehicle right behind you if driving in Baghdad, since many consider those moving targets.

Oh, and do yourself a favour and stop reading Stern.

[Edited 2007-01-27 22:07:19]


I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20563 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2078 times:

Okay, I watched the whole video, looking for something which would cause concern. It reminded me of the scene in Patton where he walks onto the bridge to find out what's causing the hold-up and shoots the donkey who won't move.

As much as people have on occasion painted me as a tree-hugging, bleeding heart liberal, if I had a son or daughter in Iraq who died in service, the last thing I'd want to hear when I asked how it happened would be, "saving a fender, sir".

Iraq is a sovereign nation, and if they have a problem with how convoys move or where choppers land, they could at any time simply show us the door.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2066 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 16):
As much as people have on occasion painted me as a tree-hugging, bleeding heart liberal, if I had a son or daughter in Iraq who died in service, the last thing I'd want to hear when I asked how it happened would be, "saving a fender, sir".

Of course it would be much better hearing they died because the attacker's brother was run over by a US tank when driving his taxi on the freeway (as described in the article) and simply hated their guts ever since. That would be much nicer to know, wouldn't it?  Yeah sure

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 16):
Iraq is a sovereign nation,

No, it's not. It's an occupied nation.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 16):
and if they have a problem with how convoys move or where choppers land, they could at any time simply show us the door.

They've been doing that for three years already.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20563 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2042 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):
Of course it would be much better hearing they died because the attacker's brother was run over by a US tank when driving his taxi on the freeway (as described in the article) and simply hated their guts ever since.

Despite taking three years of German in high school, I wasn't able to read the article, and the thread-starter didn't show us the courtesy of any background information outside of his rant. Regardless, the rules of the road have been clearly stated, and without knowing the circumstances of the unfortunate incident, I also have to rely upon the aspect of personal responsibility.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):
No, it's not. It's an occupied nation.

Last I looked Iraq has its own government who've asked us not to leave just yet. If you have any information to dispute that, I'd be welcome to look it over as always.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineJoge From Finland, joined Feb 2000, 1444 posts, RR: 39
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2037 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 5):
The most dangerous position for the convoy to be in, is a dead stop.

You went to Iraq knowing the risks. Now you're afraid to die? Hey, but it's just a reality TV-show of a FPS game, right...

And a bit off-topic, US troops in Iraq have nothing to do with defending US. It's just BS that everybody believes.

-Joge



Bula!
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2023 times:

Quoting Joge (Reply 21):
You went to Iraq knowing the risks. Now you're afraid to die?

That was very inappropriate, for a number of reasons.

May I quote the famous introduction speech from, "Patton"

No poor dumb bastard ever won a war by dying for their country. They won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for theirs"



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2000 times:

This thread shows that empathy isn't a frequent attribute.

As an American soldier I would want to drive as fast as possible (no matter whether I ram some old Iraqi cars).

As an Iraqi civilian I would be pissed to get rammed by an US car. Just imagine someone rams you on your way to work. How would you feel? Than imagine this happens regularly...

Solution?


pelican


User currently offlineSoups From Ghana, joined Jun 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1986 times:

Recall the old days on bumping cars


Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1983 times:

Quoting Pelican (Reply 23):
As an Iraqi civilian I would be pissed to get rammed by an US car. Just imagine someone rams you on your way to work. How would you feel? Than imagine this happens regularly...

Solution?

Follow the sign on the front of the convoy truck that UH60 mentioned.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2015 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 25):

Follow the sign on the front of the convoy truck that UH60 mentioned.

 Yeah sure Because that's always possible...

pelican


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7953 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2000 times:

Quoting Pelican (Reply 23):
This thread shows that empathy isn't a frequent attribute.

True.

Quoting Pelican (Reply 23):
Solution?

It may be difficult to bear, but there's no solution both sides can live with. But bumping into one's car is certainly the lesser evil. More so since a threat posed to the vehicle behind you is at the same time something that puts you at risk - a risk bigger than having a damaged fender.

Maybe those Army vehicles should come with horns as standard.  Wink



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1990 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 27):

It may be difficult to bear, but there's no solution both sides can live with. But bumping into one's car is certainly the lesser evil. More so since a threat posed to the vehicle behind you is at the same time something that puts you at risk - a risk bigger than having a damaged fender.

I agree it is the lesser evil.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 27):
Maybe those Army vehicles should come with horns as standard.

Doesn't he use the horn all the time?  Confused

pelican


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1977 times:

I'm still freakin amazed all of you have totally ignored what I said earlier:  Yeah sure

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 5):
And here is the kicker: Any damage American troops cause - whether it's kicking down your door, ruining your crops by landing a helicopter in your field, accidentally killing your herd, OR GETTING YOUR CAR RAMMED... you can get financial reimbursement from the US military.

And to be honest... it's kinda annoying listening to people bitch about this. It's funny - watching a 3minute video automatically makes some people feel they're expert enough on what happens here, to make such absurd statements.

We're talking about keeping people ALIVE. And it amazes me that some of you feel comfortable enough - sitting in your safe homes, totally removed from this war - to pass judgement on these soldiers.

More people are concerned with the bumpers on the vehicles, then they are with keeping soldiers alive. It's pretentious and unbelieve.

-UH60


User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1946 times:

Quoting Joge (Reply 21):
You went to Iraq knowing the risks. Now you're afraid to die?

You know...my best response to this would get me permabanned...

So what you're saying is our troops should just go out on a stroll, lay down their arms, and hold up signs saying "Shoot me"? They can't defend themselves while over there?

Quoting Pelican (Reply 28):
Doesn't he use the horn all the time?

That horn must get replaced every other day with as much as he was using it...


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1946 times:

Quoting Pelican (Reply 28):
Doesn't he use the horn all the time?

It's not a real horn. It's one of those "beep-beep" pieces of shit. If they wanted to mean business, they'd use air horns or European emergency vehicle horns.

Mark


25 L-188 : I did see that. And I heard the same thing in Germany if we accidently tore up some farmers field. (I understand that damage bills ran into the milli
26 JAGflyer : Once again US troops are fu*king around in Iraq. After the prisoner abuse, taunting kids and now ramming motorists i'm starting to believe the line of
27 NAV20 : Couple of practical questions, if you don't mind, UH60:- 1. How does that work, exactly? Does the US Army have shopfront 'Liaison and Compensation Cen
28 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Utterly baffling comment. Just like a couple other members here. Why the hell should they listen to you, even acknowledging your post would shut Thor
29 Post contains images DavestanKSAN : Seriously why do some people criticize the US Military for everything they do? I'm not saying every Serviceman/Woman is perfect, but come on. Do you m
30 Post contains links and images Turbo7x7 : Well, if their car gets totaled enough so that they get enough money to flee the country and go to Syria or Jordan, then I guess it works out fine af
31 ME AVN FAN : - - The military explanation sounds good. The other side however is that A) there are many Iraqis who have their cars seriously damaged, without havin
32 TheSorcerer : Does the US army pay for any damage caused? Dominic
33 Post contains images Klaus : No, not at all. Wrong again. I couldn't care less about the bumpers - what the video did for me was to illuminate the state of affairs from a differe
34 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Your ignorance of combat tactics is failing you MAF. You should stop while you're ahead. Great post Klaus. However, you're talking Strategies here fo
35 NASCARAirforce : Not Everybody. I never bought into "the soldiers are in Iraq fighting for OUR freedom". I could buy it for Afghanistan due to the Bin Ladin connectio
36 BristolFlyer : Sorry for bringing this thread back on topic, but if the HumVees had louder horns then people would have more chance to move. Give them a horn more li
37 Post contains images UH60FtRucker : Wow. I've seen people make real asses of themselves on ANET, but you might have just won the top prize. I hope it's because you're still in the "know
38 ME AVN FAN : - I have never been in a "combat unit". My "ignorance" in this is off-topic. I however admit to a lack of "counting-ignorance" as it is THREE questio
39 Oli80 : hmmm... stuck in heavy traffic with a big target painted on the side of me? or piss a few locals off to save my own ass? I know which one I would choo
40 NASCARAirforce : I agree.... But the point ME AVN FAN is trying to say is that the Iraqis do not want us (us being the U.S. and Britain mainly) there occupying their
41 KSYR : Solution? Iraqis get out of the way. I'm sure that they would rather get a ding in their bumper than have their car 3 feet from a Humvee when it is b
42 KSYR : First of all, the analogy is irrelevant. In order for your comparison to be valid the following would have to occur in the United States- 1.) George
43 Post contains images Scottieprecord : That's a sunday drive compared to how GTA looks on my screen... So I guess a more attractive, charismatic Hugo Chavez is more capable of bringing fre
44 Jalto27R : If you really pay attention to the entire video, you will see the soldiers can tell when the motorist can get the hell out of their way, or when they
45 NASCARAirforce : 1. That is debateable 2. They are put on watch lists and are wiretapped instead 3. Instead they would get sent to Guantamino 4. One more "attack" on
46 Klaus : No. It's just the final straw on top of three years of rather close observation through all available media. It sets a tone which should simply not b
47 L-188 : Don't blame you one bit. Yup, the only thing that was missing was the bag lady with the shopping cart full of cans. For many no, which is why those d
48 Srbmod : Since this thread has devolved from the original topic and is becoming quite hard to clean up, it is being locked.
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