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Venezuelans To Surrender Today  
User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1991 times:

Venezuelans will vote to surrender their democracy today to the Dictator-to-be Hugo Chavez.

They are voting to give him a "temporary" power of decree (18 months) while he's training his private army to "repel invaders".

It's expected that his first actions will be to nationalize everything he can and socialize the country. Nationalizing socialist.......

Please tell me I'm not the only one seeing history repeat itself here.


My deepest sympathy to the people of Venezuela who voted against him. Better either take to the hills and organize or move out while you can.


Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
85 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTZ757300 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2876 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1980 times:

Quoting DL021 (Thread starter):
Please tell me I'm not the only one seeing history repeat itself here.

Oh, you arn't.

Quoting DL021 (Thread starter):
My deepest sympathy to the people of Venezuela who voted against him. Better either take to the hills and organize or move out while you can.

Can I be safe to say that he may become the new, modern day Stalin? I believe he punished/got rid of all the people that we're against him.

This is socialism at its best.



LETS GO MOUNTAINEERS!
User currently offlineMiamiair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1971 times:

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 1):
Can I be safe to say that he may become the new, modern day Stalin?

I wouldn't say Stalin, as el Diablo hasn't yet murdered millions through purges, but he is taking after his mentor, Fidel.

The handwriting has been on the wall for a while now. To think this guy was in custody during the coup. I would have had an accidental discharge that would have given him a projectile induced cranial hemmorage. That would have done society a favor.


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1960 times:

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 3):
To think this guy was in custody during the coup. I would have had an accidental discharge that would have given him a projectile induced cranial hemmorage.

coulda, woulda, shoulda's............... Santayana was right...people that refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1956 times:

Quoting DL021 (Thread starter):
Venezuelans will vote to surrender their democracy today to the Dictator-to-be Hugo Chavez.

I guess some people just can't handle liberty and freedom; lack of education? If this happens it will not be a good day in the Americas (North/South).

Quoting DL021 (Thread starter):
My deepest sympathy to the people of Venezuela who voted against him. Better either take to the hills and organize or move out while you can.

Chile, Argentina both come to mind as recent examples of the excesses of dictators in South America.


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8763 posts, RR: 42
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1953 times:

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 1):
Quoting DL021 (Thread starter):
Please tell me I'm not the only one seeing history repeat itself here.

Oh, you arn't.

 checkmark  If you have a population that in considerable parts never had the chance to get a good education, all you need to do is promise these people to lay everything in their hands.

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 1):
This is socialism at its best.

Err... no. Socialism at its best, which was still a poor excuse for a functioning society, was born out of the blatant unfairness of society in the mid-to-late 19th and early 20th century. The people behind it had an ideal and it was "of the people", Chávez on the other hand is a canny populist (ab)using the name to justify his autocratic rule and aspiratios.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineVenus6971 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1444 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1886 times:

A lack of good education to the dirt poor of Venuzuela has caused this. He gave the poor money and he had them eating out of his hand, just like the pandering politicians of this country with the welfare state. Just like Hitler of the past and other dictators, he got voted in. My suggestion to Venuzuelans of wealth,privalege, and power to get your affairs in order you future enemys of the state. All future Major League Baseball prospects I suggest emirgrating before Chavez treats all his ball players like the Cubans do.


I would help you but it is not in the contract
User currently offlinePanAmOldDC8 From Barbados, joined Dec 2006, 960 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1874 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 5):
The people behind it had an ideal and it was "of the people", Chávez on the other hand is a canny populist (ab)using the name to justify his autocratic rule and aspiratios.

I have visited Venezuela many times and really like the country. However there is a lot of poverty there and I can see where his support has come from. Having said that I feel very sorry for the people there and they are going to be worse off than they were before, he has led them down the garden path with promises that he will not be able to fulfil. I have a friend there who has said that his cronies are buying all the expensive things around, including aeroplanes for their personal use. He is to rule by decree, until someone puts a bullet through his head. He is trying to follow Fidel, but that was a different time and place. The Venezuelan people are not the Cuban people and will see through his sham. I just hope that what happens will happen quickly for them



Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1865 times:

-
and I, when reading that headline, thought the Venezuelans might "surrender" to the USA !  confused 

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 6):
Chavez treats all his ball players like the Cubans do.

-
HOW do the Cubans treat their "ball players" ? whom I suppose to be in FOOTBALL, and neither in baseball nor American-Football
-

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 7):
different time and place

not least as Cuba was and is an island, quite unlike Venezuela, a difference that counts
-


User currently offlineYu138086 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1863 times:

Chavez sits on/drinks oil ("black gold") and uses it as a political and socio-economic tool to secure power domestically since the USA, China and India are eager buyers. He can afford to do this and knows it. He's solidified his power with these crazy new laws under the name of his "Socialist Revolution". His aim is to divide Latin America into Leftist and Rightist/ pro-empire (USA) and anti-empire. It's working. His oil allows it. He plays the percentages wisely and is a great public speaker who knows how to persuade the poor masses. 6 more years...

User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1854 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 8):
-
and I, when reading that headline, thought the Venezuelans might "surrender" to the USA !

Sorry....I did not account for the hysterical conspiracy theorists!  Wink Seriously, I did not mean to infer they were being invaded...

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 8):
not least as Cuba was and is an island, quite unlike Venezuela,

If Chavez succeeds he will turn Venezuela into an island.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 8):
-
HOW do the Cubans treat their "ball players" ? whom I suppose to be in FOOTBALL, and neither in baseball nor American-Football

Venezuela's national pastime is as much baseball as anything else. Football is probably equal to baseball there, as far as I can tell. They have produced a large number of professional baseball players.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1846 times:

Quoting DL021 (Reply 10):
not least as Cuba was and is an island, quite unlike Venezuela,
-
If Chavez succeeds he will turn Venezuela into an island.

-
closing the borders with a "defence-wall" like the gone GDR ? brrrr !!
-

Quoting DL021 (Reply 10):
a large number of professional baseball players.

then I indeed might recommend such baseball players to emigrate
-


User currently offlinePanAmOldDC8 From Barbados, joined Dec 2006, 960 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1843 times:

Latest update Chavez now to rule by decree for the next 18 months. He is saying that one of his first priorities is to do way with elections, according to the BBC and make himself President for life and make the assembly for life as well. There goes the Venezuela that I knew so well


Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1820 times:

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 12):
according to the BBC and make himself President for life and make the assembly for life as well.

while the BBC report says :
He wants to scrap presidential term limits and rewrite the constitution to build what he calls "socialism for the 21st Century". Officials say he has no intention of turning Venezuela into a communist state
******************************************************
nothing about "president for life" . You unfortunately may become right in the end, but you canNOT have seen it on the BBC-WEBsite . In regard to the terms the change gives him the right to be a candidate each time again.
-
whatever, it indeed looks far from splendid. His chance of course is the oil-income of his country with which he can finance a lot


User currently offlineTZ757300 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2876 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1820 times:

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 12):
Latest update Chavez now to rule by decree for the next 18 months. He is saying that one of his first priorities is to do way with elections, according to the BBC and make himself President for life and make the assembly for life as well. There goes the Venezuela that I knew so well

I sure hope his actions won't crumble the countries of the continent. I know many of the countries have a bulk of their economies based off of tourism and now that there is a big bad bully there, I bet you the tourism will dwindle away. I'm sure most people don't want to go to an area where chaos is probably going to ensue.



LETS GO MOUNTAINEERS!
User currently offlinePanAmOldDC8 From Barbados, joined Dec 2006, 960 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1809 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 13):
nothing about "president for life" . You unfortunately may become right in the end, but you canNOT have seen it on the BBC-WEBsite . In regard to the terms the change gives him the right to be a candidate each time again

It was on the ticker tape. Will check later and see if they removed it. My friend in Venezeula has told me that he and his family are seling their home and moving to Canada as he sees a lot of unrest there in the next little while and he wants to do it before the price drops too much



Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1804 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 11):
closing the borders with a "defence-wall" like the gone GDR ? brrrr !!

He's already militarized the border with Columbia and provided support to their insurgent groups.

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 12):
Latest update Chavez now to rule by decree for the next 18 months. He is saying that one of his first priorities is to do way with elections, according to the BBC and make himself President for life and make the assembly for life as well. There goes the Venezuela that I knew so well

I did not expect that as the first act....that's incredible. Congratulations on all you people who were Chavez supporters.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlinePanAmOldDC8 From Barbados, joined Dec 2006, 960 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1793 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 13):
whatever, it indeed looks far from splendid. His chance of course is the oil-income of his country with which he can finance a lot

I wish one of our Venezeulan A. Netters would come up and give us the real facts from there. Nothing like straight from the horses mouth

[Edited 2007-01-31 18:18:07]


Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1783 times:

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 17):
whatever, it indeed looks far from splendid. His chance of course is the oil-income of his country with which he can finance a lot
--
I wish one of our Venezeulan A. Netters would come up and give us the real facts from there. Nothing like straight from the horses mouth

-
They presumably wait until the matters become a bit clearer. I simply fear that your predictions are gradually becoming truth. I still hoped that Mr Chavez might have kept a tiny little bit of common sense, but developments look otherwise. Rather sad !


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1779 times:

Did you ever notice that no one from Venezuela posts in these Venezuela threads? I wonder why.  scratchchin 

Mark


User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1776 times:

Quoting DL021 (Thread starter):
Please tell me I'm not the only one seeing history repeat itself here.

You mean like:

Julius Caesar
Augustus Caesar
Maximilian Robespierre
Napoleon Bonaparte
Lenin
Adolph Hitler

People are always ready to toss their freedom out the window so opportunists.

Anyone who can promise wealth and security and make sure that the rich get punished.

Makes you think doesn't it? Makes you think about how he was applauded at the UN. How welcomed he was in Harlem. How people like Cindy Sheehan call him a friend.


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1766 times:

I wish the people of Venezuela well, history is not on their side, and nothing Chavez has done gives me any hope. The end result of 'socialist' regimes such as these has almost always been a country plunged into chaos, stripped of its resources and its infrastructure, and lacking the stability needed to rebuild.


"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1756 times:

Quoting DL021 (Thread starter):
Venezuelans will vote to surrender their democracy today to the Dictator-to-be Hugo Chavez.

They are voting to give him a "temporary" power of decree (18 months) while he's training his private army to "repel invaders".

It's expected that his first actions will be to nationalize everything he can and socialize the country. Nationalizing socialist.......

Please tell me I'm not the only one seeing history repeat itself here.

You aren't. What's sad is that the Venezuelan people, who stand the most to lose with this onset of a dictatorship, are apparently blind to the freedom they are surrendering.


User currently offlinePanAmOldDC8 From Barbados, joined Dec 2006, 960 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1745 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 18):
still hoped that Mr Chavez might have kept a tiny little bit of common sense, but developments look otherwise. Rather sad !

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. What more can I say than that



Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
User currently offlinePanAmOldDC8 From Barbados, joined Dec 2006, 960 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1732 times:

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 19):
Did you ever notice that no one from Venezuela posts in these Venezuela threads? I wonder why.

Yes and they have even started them. There was one here that started out about Chazez and Fidel and went on for awhile



Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
25 AndesSMF : From others I have heard the same thing, he is simply using socialism as his way in, he is a mixed bag of shit. They have before, many against him. O
26 DL021 : I wonder if whoever is running the civil guard Chavez is paying $7 per day remembers what happened to the guy running the SA after the last '33 electi
27 Post contains images LTU932 : Enabling Act, anyone? I agree, it's history repeating itself, only without a racist madman à la Hitler being in charge but with a populist wannabe s
28 ME AVN FAN : - I think you see something wrong. When President Nasr was in power in Egypt, many Egyptian conservatives and many Europeans gave the forecast that N
29 Halls120 : I'd argue that the loss of freedom is a loss that will impact the poor as well. The rich and middle class might lose more in the way of material poss
30 TheCol : Yeah, I was just thinking the same thing.
31 PanAmOldDC8 : Hey guys, latest update. Chavez has said that one of his priorities is a million man army as quickly as possible. Just caught that on the news. Can an
32 UALPHLCS : So your saying so long as a dictator doesn't abuse his power a la Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Robespierre, Augustus, Caligula, Nero
33 Falcon84 : Looks like everyone on here sees it, Ian. More like the new, modern-day Castro. The big difference may be in the last quote I highlighted below, and
34 ME AVN FAN : not "OK", but surviveable -- a tiny difference - I do NOT fail to see but completely agree. People in Europe (BOTH sides) in the 50ies, 60ies, 70ies
35 Halls120 : If this is accurate, I see a South American arms race in the near future. Not what anybody needs, at this point.
36 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : Russia ? with its aircraft / armament industry ?
37 Kmh1956 : ...about as much as "Read my lips. No new taxes."
38 Post contains links AndesSMF : I do not necessarily believe that Chavez will go communist, but it should be mentioned that he has shown marxist tendencies. Chavez is a simply opport
39 Derico : There is already an psudo-arms race, I have posted two threads about the matter already last year. Brazil, Chile, Peru, Ecuador, Colombia, Mexico and
40 PanAmOldDC8 : Thanks for the link, I found it very fascinating, he has an axe to grind as his families property was taken away. Well I guess he will exact his own
41 DL021 : I fully agree with that, but I specified that the people who KNOW they have something to lose.... many of the poor in Venezuela don't understand what
42 DL021 : Absolutely....just like Hitler had his SA and SS Chavez has started his own brownshirts who will be used to intimidate or worse opposition that dares
43 Falcon84 : I'm not sure. He makes threats all the time; he's hanging out with Mahmoud OneManJihad in Iran. I'm sure a lot is for internal control, but I can see
44 DL021 : Well, his problem with a "million man army" is that he has no way to equip, transport, support, or communicate with a million men other than in a gene
45 MIAMIx707 : Well there's plenty of ignorance about what socialism/communism really brings in most of Latin America, unfortunately. However, it's also true that b
46 PanAmOldDC8 : Venezula has oil. but still needs investment. Without investment they are in a sad shape and a lot more will lose their jobs especially the same poor
47 AndesSMF : BTW, they still have not recovered to the level of oil production they had prior to the crippling oil strike of a few years ago. IIRC, Chavez fired a
48 DavestanKSAN : This is too bad. A good friend of mine lives in Venezuela and he is in strong opposition to Chavez. He tells me things are getting out of hand there.
49 DL021 : To be fair...probably not. We could have supported Ho Chi Minh when he asked us to in the late 40's.....we supported the French instead in perhaps th
50 Falcon84 : Amen to that. Of that, I have absolutely no doubt.
51 Falcon84 : On another note, if this schelprock should take Venezuela into some damn fool adventures in South America, or embroil himself with the likes of Iran,
52 ME AVN FAN : he says he wants a "socialist" Venezuela, he says he does not want communism, but he says to be a "marxist-leninist" . And in recent weeks he has car
53 Luisde8cd : I'm Venezuelan, I used to have a Venezuelan flag here on A.net.... not anymore, I feel disgusted to be related to Chavez... nowdays when you mention
54 ME AVN FAN : - well, I wish you all good luck with that change, while at the same time expressing my absolute and total surprise that ANYBODY in 2007 might seriou
55 DL021 : Work to remind the masses of what they had when it becomes apparent what they've lost. I'm happy for that for you and your family, but don't give up
56 Piercey : You got out, you can start over. That's all I can really say. Anybody else thinks Ecuador and/or Columbia is/are screwed?
57 Post contains images Falcon84 : Not liking your present leader doesn't mean you should not have pride in who you are, your heritage, and your nation of Venezuela. Trust me, I've had
58 LTU932 : Perhaps Ecuador, since they (correct me if I'm wrong) voted with Rafael Correa another populist into office who's sympathetic to Chávez, but in the
59 AndesSMF : No. Off the top of my head, in the last few years Ecuadorians have thrown out at least two populist presidents (Bucaram and Guitierrez) for corruptio
60 LTU932 : How much of a populist and supporter of Chávez is Correa anyway? I'm curious.
61 AndesSMF : I am not certain. All I hear from my family is that Chavez is getting close to getting another definition attached to his name. Example: #1 You are a
62 ME AVN FAN : true, but THIS is a thing of many decades to come - reminds me of a schoolfriend whose very rich family got out of Egypt in 1957 when Nasr started hi
63 Piercey : sorry guys, should have made it clearer. I was referring to the vows of a million man army and a Venezuelan invasion.
64 ME AVN FAN : - interesting. I remember to have heard from Brits about them having "Chavs" or something thelike around in their place ?
65 Post contains images Piercey : Completely different, go google that word
66 ME AVN FAN : - of course, but looks VERY similar !
67 Post contains images TheCol : Frick! You made me spit my drink out all over my new flatscreen! Yeah, they're gonna be pretty screwed if Chavez starts dealing with his buddies back
68 AirCop : According to an article in the Washington Post, it appears Spain appears to be a country of choice for individuals seeking to abandon Venezuela becaus
69 ME AVN FAN : A) he is the democratically elected president, elected for 6 years B) upper-class and better-off middle-class emigrating will strenthen him -
70 DL021 : He's sort of done away with all that democracy stuff for now, hasn't he? Only until he finds he cannot run the country without them.
71 Searpqx : This is the saddest part of this drama, and one that has played out repeatedly around the world. The people who could most effectively mitigate the d
72 ME AVN FAN : - Not yet "all" but I fear that he indeed is busy enroute that way. Rather sad. - if he really wishes to stop the exodus he has TWO possible ways to
73 Post contains links Derico : Heavy fuel oil processing plants owned by Exxon Mobil, British Petroleum, Chevron Texaco, Conoco Phillips, Total, and Statoil to be nationalized. http
74 PanAmOldDC8 : Well I think that he has just cut his own throat. By that I mean when all the experts from the oil companies leave who is going to run the refineries
75 ME AVN FAN : - in whatever way you may feel pissed by your country, it will remain the country where you grew up, where you lived a good and important part of you
76 PanAmOldDC8 : I hope so. I am bit concerned as I have not seen any of the Venezuelan Netters on recently. They are usually around to give good comment
77 ME AVN FAN : As you have seen, the family of at least one went "packing", for sure a severely hurting and depressing affair for all. Others may be just waiting, i
78 PanAmOldDC8 : How true. Venezuela is a very nice country and the people that I have met are great. The girls are OH LA LA, that mixture of Spanish, Indian and Negr
79 PHLBOS : Based on what I've heard & read; it would appear that Venezuela may very well wind up becoming the next Cuba... at least.
80 ME AVN FAN : here we come to THE point, which has been so important in Arab, African and Asian countries in the DE-colonization aera from 1948 to 1980 and after.
81 AsstChiefMark : Hmmm... No Venezuelan flags in this thread...yet? You'd think one of them would dare to speak up. Mark
82 PanAmOldDC8 : HI Mark I don't think it is a case of not wanting to speak up, but can they are their computers under state control, by that I mean the suppliers. I
83 ME AVN FAN : - two contradictory things : - in the Iraq of Saddam Hussein, to take the most extreme case, internet users in Iraq were always finding new tricks to
84 AndesSMF : There have been many members from Venezuela who have relocated in the last year due to the Chavez situation. And there are many who have spoken up. A
85 PanAmOldDC8 : Maybe you should go down there and teach them some tricks. You seem like a smart guy. That's it for me tonight have a good evening and enjoy PanAmOld
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