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No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits  
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2466 posts, RR: 5
Posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1727 times:

I don't see how they can defend themselves this time. I gave them the benifit of the doubt from the profit ratio angle, but not this time.

Screw EXXON.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16922298/


Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12884 posts, RR: 46
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1712 times:
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Exxon made $39.5b profit on revenue of nearly $378b. A margin of less than 10.5%, which is far from excessive. It's very easy just to look at the headline figure (which is impressive), but find out how much Exxon is spending on capital projects in 2007. How do you think they can fund that?

Yes, I work for a big oil company. My company also made record profits in 2006, but again, we're spending very nearly as much in capital projects in 2007 as we made in 2006.

It costs literally billion and billions of $s to get new oil and gas out of the ground. Activating enhanced recovery of existing fields (to extend their lives) is nearly as expensive.

If you're unhappy with "big oil" making large, but proportionate, profits, then push your government to tax their profits. But, you'd better be prepared to pay a lot more for their products as they slash their investments to compensate for the loss of income.

Still think you're being ripped off? You shouldn't, because you're not.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1704 times:

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 1):
Exxon made $39.5b profit on revenue of nearly $378b. A margin of less than 10.5%, which is far from excessive. It's very easy just to look at the headline figure (which is impressive), but find out how much Exxon is spending on capital projects in 2007. How do you think they can fund that?

Yes, damn them for having the audacity to try and make a reasonable return on investment. What the hell are they thinking about?  sarcastic 

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 1):
If you're unhappy with "big oil" making large, but proportionate, profits, then push your government to tax their profits. But, you'd better be prepared to pay a lot more for their products as they slash their investments to compensate for the loss of income.

You don't get it. People like PC12fan believe that they have a constitutional right to cheap gasoline. It's their birthright.  Wink


User currently offlineRJdxer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1701 times:

So off of revenues of 377.64 billion they profited 39.5 billion. A little less than 10.5% of total revenue. I don't get it? Are you complaining about the extra .5% above the normal 10%? I really don't see the problem here. They sold a lot of gas and seems to me they made a fair profit. A look at the bottom of the page of the article you linked shows that a number of major companies made big gains in the profit department yet you aren't complaining about them, why?

User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1686 times:

Hey I haven't bought gas in over a year... what's the current going price?

--------------------------------------------


And going back to economics 101 - a 10% profit margin is healthy and certainly reasonable. I don't see why people get so angry at oil companies, there are other industries/companies who gouge their customers far more.

Typical irrational ignorance, if you ask me.

-UH60


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1667 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 4):
Hey I haven't bought gas in over a year... what's the current going price?

$2.10 a gallon in northern VA, a dime cheaper south of Richmond.


User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7811 posts, RR: 16
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1658 times:

Though it should be noted that ExxonMobil enjoys a profit margin that is considerably higher than other in the oil business. The number only seems so big given the huge revenues they generate. The difference in revenue $$$ between ExxonMobil and #2 (IIRC it is still WalMart which has paper thin margins) is pretty big.

but if you want to see high profit margins look at the commercial banks, financial services firms, and oddly enough Microsoft.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9545 posts, RR: 42
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1655 times:

Who would bother to do the surveying, the exploration, the extraction, the processing, the distribution and the supply if there was nothing in it for them?

User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13198 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1655 times:

It isn't just the profits which are taxed and then flow to the stockholders, but the almost total assurance that big oil will never lose money. Don't forget too, that much of that stock and profits go to your and others pension and other retirement funds and fatten them up.
A bigger issue to me is the hidden and huge amounts of money given to top executives while down the line people are laid off or forced to be paid less and worse, the people in 3rd world countries where the oil comes from that are not being compensated or getting their fair share.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17824 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1646 times:

Quoting PC12Fan (Thread starter):
I don't see how they can defend themselves this time. I gave them the benifit of the doubt from the profit ratio angle, but not this time.

Defend themselves from what? They made a record profit and oil is even down quite a bit this quarter.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 2):
You don't get it. People like PC12fan believe that they have a constitutional right to cheap gasoline.

AND you better not use too much of it and not create any greenhouse gas doing so Yeah sure

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 1):
But, you'd better be prepared to pay a lot more for their products as they slash their investments to compensate for the loss of income.

Or you could follow the Democrats "rationale" of somehow lowering gas costs at the pump while simultaneously making it more expensive for oil companies to produce it by taxing them. Silly



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6371 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1641 times:

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 6):
Though it should be noted that ExxonMobil enjoys a profit margin that is considerably higher than other in the oil business

So don't buy any ExxonMobil products...

Seriously, while gas prices have been absolutely ridiculous at times, we aren't doing jack to reduce our consumption, even thoughs who cry foul. You don't like giving the oil companies a ridiculous amount of profit - DON'T! Nobody forces you to buy gas.


User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2466 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1641 times:

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 1):
You shouldn't, because you're not.
I'll just blame it on the share holders them. ?

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 2):
People like PC12fan believe that they have a constitutional right to cheap gasoline.
That's not the case at all with me. I would support a tax that would boost price per gallon $1 or more because this country definitely needs a reality check when it comes to gas consumption.

The fact is that circumstances are different from last year. I reluctantly understand the case of profit margin, and that OPEC has a lot to do with it as well. But we are talking about almost 40 - say it with me - billion dollars, and there are two reasons that can explain it all. Greed and share holders dividends.

[Edited 2007-02-01 17:59:09]


Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1620 times:

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 11):
The fact is that circumstances are different from last year. I reluctantly understand the case of profit margin, and that OPEC has a lot to do with it as well. But we are talking about almost 40 - say it with me - billion dollars, and there are two reasons that can explain it all. Greed and share holders earnings.

While the lump sum is indeed large, their return on profit wasn't out of line. Why is a 10% return on investment for Exxon bad, and OK for any other company?


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1612 times:

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 11):
The fact is that circumstances are different from last year. I reluctantly understand the case of profit margin, and that OPEC has a lot to do with it as well. But we are talking about almost 40 - say it with me - billion dollars, and there are two reasons that can explain it all. Greed and share holders dividends.



Quoting Halls120 (Reply 12):
. Why is a 10% return on investment for Exxon bad, and OK for any other company?

Halls120 is absolutely correct... why is a 10% margin bad?

If you want your argument to be taken seriously, you have to justify why Exxon doesn't deserve that 10%. And given your obvious economic expertise... what is a good profit margin, PC12Fan?

8%? 5%? 2%?

-UH60


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13751 posts, RR: 61
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1599 times:
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Quoting Halls120 (Reply 12):
While the lump sum is indeed large, their return on profit wasn't out of line. Why is a 10% return on investment for Exxon bad, and OK for any other company?

Because I said so.

Signed,
PC12Fan



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2466 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1600 times:

Sorry that I feel this way guys, but it bothers me because circumstances are different than they were last year. No hurricanes, no shortages, profits that exceed the GNP of most countries in the world... it just bother me, that's all.

I guess the honorable thing to do here is request deletion of the post for a flame bait violation?

Regards



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1599 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 12):
Why is a 10% return on investment for Exxon bad, and OK for any other company?

For my two cents, in construction, anytime you give an estimate for how much the work will cost, YOU ADD A LINE WITH A 10% PROFIT BUILT IN. I've seen it go up to 20% in construction. And I believe that Microsoft goes to 70%.


User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2466 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1591 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 14):

My first one of those! I never had one in my previous A.net life.

And yes, Johan is aware of that.



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6371 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1583 times:

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 16):
And I believe that Microsoft goes to 70%.

Doesn't surprise me...I mean, Office can't possibly cost $400 a pop to design, produce, and market...


User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1568 times:

Quoting SW733 (Reply 18):
Office can't possibly cost $400 a pop to design, produce, and market...

How many office suites sold every year X $200 average?

http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor...asp?Page=ProfitMargins&Symbol=MSFT

(gross margin of 79.4%)


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12884 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1565 times:
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Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 11):
But we are talking about almost 40 - say it with me - billion dollars, and there are two reasons that can explain it all. Greed and share holders dividends.

How is this greed? If Exxon charged more for their products than their competitors, they'd be out of business PDQ. Exxon's profit margin is entirely reasonable.

All the oil major CEO's were called in front of congress last year to "justify" their profits in 2005. What was the outcome of that? Nothing!

Your still missing the whole point - everything for the oil majors is on a huge scale. A new field will cost anything from $5b upwards to develop. Do you have any idea how much a new, US based, refinery would cost (if anyone would actually let one be built)?

Have you investigated what Exxon's capital budget is for 2007? Try and look it up (I'd be surprised if it isn't on their website). Sit down before you start.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12884 posts, RR: 46
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1562 times:
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Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 15):
I guess the honorable thing to do here is request deletion of the post for a flame bait violation?

There's certainly no need to do that.

You raised a valid question. I've tried to explain to you that oil profits are not unreasonable (simply of a very large scale), and that the oil majors invest huge amounts of money every year trying to maintain production levels. That costs lots and lots of $$$s.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2466 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1551 times:

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 21):
You raised a valid question. I've tried to explain to you that oil profits are not unreasonable, and that the oil majors invest huge amounts of money every year trying to maintain production levels.

Let me ask you this then. Historically, have EXXON's (and all of big oil for that matter) profit margins averaged the same year after year? (trying to see if the numbers are in line with inflation, if you will)

Regards



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1547 times:

Quoting PC12Fan (Thread starter):
I don't see how they can defend themselves this time.



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
Defend themselves from what?

 checkmark 


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13751 posts, RR: 61
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1534 times:
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Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 22):
Historically, have EXXON's (and all of big oil for that matter) profit margins averaged the same year after year?

So now it's not that you're against profits - you're against companies making a higher profit one year vs. the previous one?  sarcastic 

Face it - you can't defend your position.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
25 PC12Fan : Hardly. I am big enough to admit when I'm wrong and I'm trying to learn. If the numbers are historically averaging the same, then I'll have my crow.
26 Halls120 : Until someone comes up with Exxon's historical numbers, how about these numbers from a 2005 Forbes magazine article: I'll ask the question again. Yes
27 AirCop : Would you like that fried or BBQ? Not excessive, just the amount of dollars involved makes it look huge.
28 SW733 : Heck, $200...that sounds like a steal for Microsoft Office to me...cdw.com is quoting $359.99 for 2007 with a 1 PC open business license Microsoft is
29 Post contains links PC12Fan : Well, after reading this article, http://www.seic.com/advisors/documents/Big_Bad_Oil.pdf I think I'll have my crow baked with a side of hollandaise s
30 SW733 : We're a ridiculously oil hungry planet, and the US/Canada are right on top of consumption with China. We spend the most, so they make the most...no i
31 Galapagapop : 10% is good for a business and far from excessive, I think to people it just comes to a shock that something that costs them $2.40 a gallon or whateve
32 A332 : I still hate the fact that the price increases significantly faster than it decreases, even though the price of crude changes equally in either direct
33 F9Animal : $2.45 a gallon out here. I think it is out of control as far as the price is concerned. But, I also see the need and urgency to get another form of e
34 Post contains images Aaron747 : no, but that would certainly apply to others who have commented on this in other threads. this is so incredibly misguided. what do you think they're
35 PC12Fan : Did you read the entire post? Evidently not because you would have seen that I now understand why. But it is still an insane amount of money.
36 Baroque : Yep, easy way to halve their profits, halve your consumption of oil. Daily production of oil only was about 2.6 million b/d. Assume an average daily
37 Post contains images EA CO AS : I'm a big fan of people who are willing to do the research, and even more so of those who admit that perhaps they didn't have all the facts.
38 Post contains images PC12Fan : Thank you sir. Like I said before, it's just the amount that really gets your attention. Then I had another thought. If EXXON didn't take the measure
39 Post contains images David L : ... unlike certain others who'd continue to drag this thread on for another week.
40 StarAC17 : This is a speculation process by the oil company to ensure that they aren't losing money. If the price starts to climb it goes up at the pump a lot m
41 Post contains images Flyingbronco05 : Gas was down to nearly $1.80 in Kalamazoo, MI before Bush mentioned cutting gas consumption in his last speech. Now, 2 weeks later, it's back up aroun
42 Post contains images NASCARAirforce : Then there is the Elephant Man - AKA Lee Raymond former Exxon-Mobil CEO who got the $400 Million Golden parachute when he retired
43 Post contains images SW733 : Give him a break, that's still only $2 per chin...thats a BAD ratio
44 L-188 : And then there is the 5 Billion they owe Alaska Fisherman for Exxon Valdez. They just got the 9th Circut to reduce that to 3.5 Bil, but are appealing
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