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You And God  
User currently offlineJm-airbus320 From Jamaica, joined Aug 2000, 304 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1137 times:

Many people claim to believe in god but when it matters most for them to show this belief they shy away from doing so. Does that still make them a believer? And do you ever find yourself doing it? I am guilty of this sometimes.

Jm-airbus320

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMalibuAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1065 times:

I find myself calling myself a believer, yet MOST of my actions dont denote that. I know lots of people who live that way. But hey, I go to Church every Sunday, and as for forgivness for what I have done in the week. So I guess we'll see how well that works out in the end.

User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1053 times:

Based on your parameters, how do I "show" my belief?

Not flaming or anything, just curious. Some people show their beliefs by sitting through three hours of hymns and hosannas in a church. Some people like me show it by trying (not always succeeding but trying) to respect all that I think God has created....people, places, ideas.


User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1037 times:

Believing in God and participating in religious ceremonies are two different things. Even if you never attend mass, you can still believe in God. You're still a 'believer'.


"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineClimbout From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1039 times:

JetService hit it right on the head! Thank you for clearing that up. I am Christian, but I am NOT religious. My lifestyle reflects my Christianity. I would never shy away from it. My profile says it all! Big thumbs up

User currently offlineAn-225 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 3950 posts, RR: 40
Reply 5, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1011 times:

My lifestyle reflects my atheism. But I still respect religion, as long as it does not interfere with my life.


Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
User currently offlineToadpipe From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1003 times:

The argument usually goes something like this
a.) The church is full of sinners
b.) All hypocrites are sinners
therfore the church is full of hypocrites.
The problem with this syllogism is the logical fallacy of the undistributed middle term. Let me illustrate it this way:

a.) The church is full of sinners
b.) All murderers are sinners
therfore the church is full of murderers.

The unspoken assumption is that the Chrisitian is one who claims he doesn't sin. In reality it is just the opposite. As a matter of fact the church is the only institution where one must publicly claim that he is a sinner in order to become a member. The definition of hypocrite is one who claims to be free of faults that he practices covertly. So while the church does have some hypocrites, it is not as "full" of them as some would suggest. Anyway that is my take on it.
I think Chrisitains should live according to their beliefs. If you acknowledge the existence of God and don't give a hoot for what he says, then how does that make you a believer? It's one thing to acknowledge His existence, it is entirely another to acknowledge his authority as God.


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5111 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 969 times:

i believe in "God" as i see him/her. as an ordained minister in an obscure "religion" i've found something
that works for me. i don't deny it, but most people wouldn't understand. so f*ck 'em.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 968 times:

Toadpipe, are you saying all hypocrites and murderers go to church or everyone that goes to church is a hypocrite and murderer?  Confused


"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineToadpipe From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (12 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 960 times:

I'm saying that when people claim the church is full of hypocrites, they are using an erroneous definition of the term hypocrite. The church is full of sinners not hypocrites. The church does have some hypocrites for sure, and there presence tends to stick out like a sore thumb to people who are looking for a reason to deride the church. The church never made a claim to be free of hypocrites, as a matter of fact it guarantees that there will always be some hypocrites in the church. Turn on any tv and you will find some evangelist in a 5000$ suit milking poeple for money and you will see you don't have to look far to find them. Just like any other organization you will always have hypocrites. I work with them, you work with them, chances are you probably are even related to one or two of them. We almost never hear someone say ," Hey, I know I'm a liar, but at least I'm honest about it." It's always far easier to cover it up with "I made a mistake." "I lied" is something very hard to say. Lying is an essential characteristic of a hypocrite, his whole life is a lie. He claims to be free of faults that he practices covertly. Does that explain it better?

User currently offlineRoyalDutch From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 917 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (12 years 9 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 935 times:

Toadpipe hit it right on the head...also, about beliving in God...the Bible says that even demons belive that God exists (James 2:19), but for a person to be a true Christian (A follower of Jesus Christ), he/she must belive that Christ dies for his/her sins, admit that he IS a sinner (like toadpipe said), and if he/she truely belives this, it should bring about a true change in their life in regard to the way they act.

User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (12 years 9 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 928 times:

I consider myself Christian, but I fear the word of late has been hijacked by commerce and politics.....even to me, it conjurs up images of fundamentalist suburbanites driving to the nearest 6000 seat mega-church in their bumper sticker and fish covered minivan, eager to slap down cold hard cash for the next piece of junk with "What Would Jesus Do" printed on it.

I couldn't explain my relationship with God or my love of the words of Jesus(among others mind you) to anyone...and I can't actually fathom why they'd care to begin with. I consider trying to encapsulate what Christ is, or was, or whatever, into a bumper sticker slogan or goofy fish emblem nothing more than blasphemy.

I so much want to ask some of these Christians with a big "C" and all the books and movies to prove it would they still be Christian if they were the only person left on Earth? And if so, why would they be? Because it brings peace of mind? Nah. Hell, James Taylor songs bring peace of mind, aromatherapy candles from Pier One Imports soothe the mind and body. I'd simply say if they were the last soul on Earth, with no one to talk, shop or spend 60 bucks to go to Promise Keepers with, how would they worship Christ? How? And why aren't they doing it THAT way right now?


User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 44
Reply 12, posted (12 years 9 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 903 times:

It is not works that make your salvation, but faith.

However, your faith is reflected in the works you do.

The Bible says that we will be rewarded in Heaven according to our works. However, only those who have faith go to Heaven. I'm not sure what the "rewards" will be considering that Heaven will be awesome in itself.

redngold



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (12 years 9 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 899 times:

Redngold, you hit on the very heart of Faith...."I'm Not Sure"

Yes! "I'm not sure....but for me , it works."

Would that there were a billion more of you.


User currently offlineJj From Algeria, joined Jun 2001, 1227 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (12 years 9 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 892 times:


I can not recall any actions done by miself to show I'm a believer. However, I consider myself one of those, because I believe in god. I'm not a defined religion, because I like some things of catolics and some fro the luterans... I should be mormon as I live in Salt Lake City  Smile

jj


User currently offlineNotar520AC From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1606 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (12 years 9 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 879 times:

Me and my family believes in God, but we don't go overboard devoting our whole lives to prayer and such.


BMW - The Ultimate Driving Machine
User currently offlineTguman From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 431 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (12 years 9 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 877 times:

There is one bumper sticker that helps put the Christians as perfect thing to rest. "Christians arent perfect, just FORGIVEN!" We are human. In the Bible it says that humanity is sinful. That is why we need a savior. Someone to wash our sins away. Hope this makes sense.
By the way, the best way to know who is a Christian, look at their "fruit"*. Just as you can tell a tree by it fruit, you can tell a Christian by his/her "fruit"*
*fruit- what we as Christians (believers) give to the world.
- people that come to a saving knowledge and relationship with Christ.

TGUMAN

P.S. Christianity is not a religion but a relationship!



Life is a Mine Field.
User currently offlineCPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4781 posts, RR: 23
Reply 17, posted (12 years 9 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 869 times:

I do believe in a god (without the capital G) but not one that most conventionally religious people would understand. So its easier to call myself agnostic.

User currently offlineToadpipe From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (12 years 9 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 869 times:

It wouldn't be as easy if you knew the latin equivelant. But I will admit, agnostic sounds far more refined than ignoramous. I'm not calling you that, that is just what the latin equivelant is.

User currently offlineEmiratesLover From Malta, joined Dec 2000, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (12 years 9 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 862 times:

I believe in God, and I pray everynow and again...I like going to church, but I must confess I have a tendency to pray most of all when I am sad or upset or under stress.But I believe that prayer and belief in God is a wonderful source of inner peace and tranquility and sence of direction.

User currently offlineSleekjet From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2046 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (12 years 9 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 852 times:

I take a lot of comfort in Eph. 2:8 - being "saved by grace through faith". By believing in Christ as my Saviour, I don't kick back and rest on the assurance that I'm saved. Quite the opposite. Since He did all that for me, I can't help but try to show that same love toward my fellow man. In some cases, that may mean speaking to them about Christ...in others, I just try to help them out in some physical, tangible way. I also know that if my Christian lifestyle doesn't meet resistance, I'm probably not living it right.


II Cor. 4:17-18
User currently offlineAmerica West From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (12 years 9 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 842 times:

Yes, I believe in God.

As far as going to church....

I hate to go to church with my grandmother because it is so FAKE!! She attends a black Baptist church, and I hate it because the pastor is the biggest pimp I've ever seen in my life, church starts at 10:00am and doesn't let out until 1:00pm, and then they ask you to come back for a continuation of the morning service at 5:00pm. God only knows when they'll let you out after that. It also seems like one big fashion contest. You should see some of the things that people wear. Its unbelievable! The bible says "come as you are," but you'll get some strange looks if you show up with a pair of tennis shoes on. It is also a breeding ground for rumors: "Oh, I heard that so and so did such and such, and did you hear about Sister Jenkins . . .?" bla, bla, bla. Another thing that they do is take up 6 collections!! I absolutely refuse to give over $3.00. I don't know where that money is going. I usually give $1.00 and that's it. There is not a black church in the world that doesn't have a "building fund." They have been giving to that building fund since I was born and they haven't changed a damn thing in that church!

I don't feel that I need to go to church to prove to other people that I believe in God. I don't go to church every Sunday, but when I do, I go because I want to, not because somebody else wants me to.


User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (12 years 9 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 835 times:

A common theme here by some is you can't just say you believe in God and that's it.

Yes. You can.

Sleekjet, you make a noble admission that loving your fellow man is a payback of sorts for Christ's sacrifice. Fine, works for ya'. Understand that some of us think love and respect for each other was here long before Jesus walked the Earth...he just managed to frame it so inspirationally.

Later, you say I know that if my Christian lifestyle doesn't meet resistance, I'm probably not living it right. This is a theme I see a lot....if there isn't conflict, something's wrong. For me, I feel spiritually at my best when there IS NO conflict. I believe the life and example of Christ as based on the New Testament backs me up on this. But you say tomato, I say tomahto. The sad thing is in many religious people the conflict you indicate is neccessary for proper Faith boils over into contempt.

One more thing...why is it that there's such a "victim" factor among certain groups of Christians in this day and age? Some of them act like Christianity is this great new self-help theory that came out of some wacky college professor in the 50s, and darn it, people just aren't giving it a chance!......"we Christians", "are you a (gasp) Christian!?"....listen to some of the well known politicians and evangelists, and you'd think Christians in the suburbs are still in danger of ugly meetings with lions. Guys, you won. Greece, Rome, Charlemagne, Western Civilization. Property of Jesus. When you play the victim act, it's trite. When you play the "There's this guy named Jesus" act, it's tacky.

The life and example of Christ sells itself. The mystery of Christ intrigues without billboards, bracelets or bumper stickers.


User currently offlineSkyhawk From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1066 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (12 years 9 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 833 times:

To truly be a Christian, one must acknowledge that Jesus Christ is their Lord and
Savior. Not just believing in God will put you in that group, afterall Jews also believe in God, just not in Jesus as the Savior of the world. And yes, there are hypocrites in churches, but aren't you going to find them everywhere? Personally I don't worry about those in my church who are hypocritical, they are the ones that will have to deal with God on Judgement Day. I am certainly not saying that I am without fault, I am loaded with them, but I do try continually to improve myself in God's eyes and to act in a way that is pleasing to Him.


User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (12 years 9 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 834 times:

Great post, Skyhawk but one question...

To truly be a Christian, one must acknowledge that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior.

If they never told another soul that they had, would they be Christian?


25 Sleekjet : Heavymetal, you imply that Christ's example was a life without conflict. I don't think so. He was in constant danger, constant confrontation. All beca
26 Heavymetal : Well answered. It was not meant to imply Christ lived without confrontation...he most certainly did. Jesus "caused trouble" all right, but was that hi
27 Skyhawk : Two points here, both to Heavymetal. #1-If for some reason you never had another living soul to tell that you were a Christian and that you had give y
28 Heavymetal : Thanks, man....you and I agree on everything. "The One that matters...knows." I could pontificate for eons and not come up with something more righteo
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