PAHS200 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 513 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2887 times:
hello
every night I watch the Fox News and I was thinking.
do Americans have too much freedom? I hear people bashing Bush, telling people that you can't put flags up, ect.. It seems that Americans aways have something to bitch about. Now I know its not everyone, but someone steps into a little hole at a store and sue the store for millions of $$$.
Today it seems you can't do anything without someone bitching at you.
Maybe its becuase I never lived outside of the USA. and don't know what it is like living in a country that has many rules.
I would like to know what other member of A.net think.
NeilYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2871 times:
I don't think that America has too much freedom. Canada is fairly comparable in my mind, and I'm just fine with the freedoms that I enjoy here.
America was founded on freedoms, I don't see it as being a problem. Sure you can always find something to bitch about, frivolous lawsuits and all, but the hope should be that those small annoyances are just that, small annoyances, not a reason to limit the freedoms that you and I enjoy.
ShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2846 times:
Quoting PAHS200 (Thread starter): It seems that Americans aways have something to bitch about.
Your right, we do. If we didn't have anything to bitch about we would bitch about having nothing to bitch about....
The real problem I see it not that we have too much freedom, it is that too many of us take it for granted. We'd rather sit at home complaining about stuff instead of working to improve the things we see as inadequate.
RichPhitzwell From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2845 times:
We can make an argument that we do not have enough freedom. I can think of at least four major areas that we are restricted that we probably should not be restricted in.
Of course, we are all mature enough to not start comparing our rights to lets say N. Korea.
VonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4608 posts, RR: 46 Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2838 times:
The US is no more or less free than any other Western democracy. Though the current US administration seems to want to make the average American less free, all in the name of defending freedom of course (go figure).
If you look at gay marriage, the US is far behind most western democracies with that particular freedom.
Some right-wing, ignorant Americans act like just because other countries citizens pay higher taxes that they are somehow less free, often they misuse the word socialism in their arguments. However this is simply not true. Most of the so-called "less free" western nations enjoy a higher standard of living, better access to health care, education, public transport etc etc. than the average US citizen does.
GAIsweetGAI From Norway, joined Jul 2006, 878 posts, RR: 8 Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2833 times:
Quoting PAHS200 (Thread starter): Today it seems you can't do anything without someone bitching at you.
It's called either boredom and stupidity or using what rights are left of what the First Amendment gave us.
My short answer to the question: the American people don't have too much freedom; the American government does, in that its power isn't restricted enough.
BTW this is just my personal opinion.
"There is an art, or rather a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Duff44 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1723 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2816 times:
Quoting QFA380 (Reply 1): Its not that people have too much freedom its that they abuse the freedom they have.
People that abuse their freedoms for personal benefit have forgotten the meaning of what that freedom is.
Spend a day where that freedom doesn't exist, and you'll cherish it 1000% more.
TZ757300 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2763 posts, RR: 8 Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2783 times:
Quoting Duff44 (Reply 8): People that abuse their freedoms for personal benefit have forgotten the meaning of what that freedom is.
I think stupid lawsuits and going to jail for doing your job come to mind
AirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2757 times:
Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 3): Perhaps you might want to widen you horizons, and balance your Fox news with other sources.
Quoting RichPhitzwell (Reply 5): We can make an argument that we do not have enough freedom.
The right to complain/demonstrate against injustice has done America well over the years. Reminder to the thread starter, it was complaining/protesting that led to the forming of the United States of America. (pay better attention in US History).
Rich, you are right, in the general scope of things if your activity isn't harming anyone why restrict it? I also wonder what about the people who are interviewed that are willing to give up freedoms to make themselves "safer"but can't name a freedom/right they are willing to give up.
NASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2689 posts, RR: 5 Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2735 times:
Quoting PAHS200 (Thread starter): every night I watch the Fox News and I was thinking.
So what! every president has gotten bashed. Just listen to Jay Leno, he still makes Clinton BJ jokes to this day. "That 70s Show" shows Gerald Ford slipping and falling as he comes to a podium. The jokes about Reagans senility.
Falstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 5177 posts, RR: 33 Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2735 times:
I would say our freedoms are slowly eroding. Everyday there are groups of people here in the USA that want to make something or another illegal. I belong to club that has many people that are imegrants from eastern Europe and they talk frequently about the freedoms Americans give up without thinking twice about it. These people really cherish the Freedoms they gained when coming to the USA in the 70s and 80s and don't seem to get why some Americans will give up on free ideas because they don't fit in with whatever a particular group or particular person belives.
The USA is much less free than it was 100 years ago, or even 50 years ago. I hate to think of what it will be in 100 years. Our most basic freedom, which is speech is greatly curtailed. It is ok to speak freely unless you are speaking against a group or idea. Even if you don't like it; hate speech is free speech. People talk abot banning lyrics in music and things on television. If you don't like it don't listen or watch. There are people who want to take away my classic cars because they pollute. People want to take away my guns. people want to take away my 2 stroke boat motor. These are all things that 50 years ago no one would have thought twice about. Today there are groups of people who don't like any of those things and will work hard to get them taken from me because they think it is right. The USA's own freedoms can work against it. Too many people want to protect me from myself.
TheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 1852 posts, RR: 5 Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2735 times:
Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 6): Some right-wing, ignorant Americans act like just because other countries citizens pay higher taxes that they are somehow less free
First I've heard of that. I've heard many Americans say that our taxes suck in Canada and that might explain the lack of immigration from Western countries. I can't argue with that.
Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 6): often they misuse the word socialism in their arguments
Depends on how you look at socialism.
Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 6): However this is simply not true. Most of the so-called "less free" western nations enjoy a higher standard of living, better access to health care, education, public transport etc etc. than the average US citizen does.
Except in Canada, where the average person pays equal or higher taxes.
Note: edited for error
[Edited 2007-02-08 05:09:17]
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
Ilikeyyc From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1373 posts, RR: 26 Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2684 times:
There is no such thing as too much freedom. That is the whole principle behind the founding of this country. Infact, the freedom to bitch and complain (especially about the government) is probably one of the most important freedoms we have in this country or in any free society. Go live in North Korea for a while. Then you will understand how important it is to have all of the freedoms that we have in this country.
I think we are rapidly approaching a point of no return where we will have to hope governments monitor communications systems like the internet since the internet now can provide peer support and information exchange to extremists. In the past, extremists tended to be more isolated psychologically and socially from supporting peers - and would normally find it very difficult to be aware of each other's existence. This is not true any more. For a simple example one only has to consider the thousands of partisan blogs that cater to all ends of the political spectrum with their toxic one-sided viewpoints. When relying on such blogs, one is less likely to hear dissenting criticisms than one might encounter in mainstream media.
The danger now is that extremists and nuts can access technologies that are lethal on scales much greater than bullets and conventional bombs and so the associated risks are greater. In this sense, freedom will be measured in the degree to which you trust the government is not abusing such monitoring and only using it to combat terrorism, instead of in terms of whether or not the government should be spying on its citizens.
ANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2668 times:
Quoting Ilikeyyc (Reply 15): There is no such thing as too much freedom. That is the whole principle behind the founding of this country. Infact, the freedom to bitch and complain (especially about the government) is probably one of the most important freedoms we have in this country or in any free society. Go live in North Korea for a while. Then you will understand how important it is to have all of the freedoms that we have in this country.
Excellent.
Short, simply, to the point.
The problem with the folks contending we "have too much" freedom, is that they've never lived in or near a place like North Korea, EAST Germany, places like that.
Their freedoms they take for granted because they've always had them and cannot relate to those that do not.
Csavel From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1317 posts, RR: 5 Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2653 times:
Americans have less freedom now than they used to a few decades ago, because we stopped being self-reliant and want government to be our parent, if you are a Dem, you want government to be your Mommy, if you are a Repub, you want government to be your Daddy, but both want and think gov should be our parents. Don't ever thin the democrats are the party of big governmentand the republicans want government off you rbacks. that is a crock of male bovine solid waste.
I can't go to Cuba, I know our government doesn't like them, they are repressive but I can go to every and any other repressive dictatorship, and if I have a right of free association, I should be able to go down to Havana and see for myself how repressive it is. Nope, no can do in "the land of the free."
My gay cousin got "married" but of course he really can't get married, no, not in the land of the free, some right wing wackos want to tell everyone else what marriage is. And what marriage is for everyone else is what they believe their religion says marriage should be.
Wife got a cold when we were on a ski vacation a few weeks ago. I went to a pharmacy to get her Sudafed. Guess what, I had to show ID, sign a register, so the government could keep tabs on how much Sudafed I can get - in the land of the free, that is.
A good friend of mine died of cancer in July, what helped him eat and put on weight and live longer than his prognosis was marijuana, the doctors knew it, he knew it, but guess what, the doctors were afraid of actually telling him to go and smoke a joint - they don't want their licenses taken away by the DEA, and he and "people" who shall be nameless who procured the weed for him were, according to the government, dangerous felons. In the land of the free, that is.
So we are free in that we can vote, and actually our freedom of *speech* is probably the best in the world, but Bush has begun to erode that (Try wearing an anti-Iraq button rally at a Bush appearance) but we have regressed. And I blame the fundy social engineers on the right - the right-wing Maoists who are just as dangerous as social engineers on the left.
In colonial times, a famous flag was a timber rattlesnake with the motto "Don't tread on me." Well our freedoms are doing about as well as the timber rattlesnake.
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
Faux likes to point out stories where local ordinances place restrictions on the size of flagpoles. Insted they should focus on real issues threatening freedom, like the Bush Administration.
Ilikeyyc From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1373 posts, RR: 26 Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2622 times:
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 17): Their freedoms they take for granted because they've always had them and cannot relate to those that do not.
Well said ILikeYYC.
Thank you!
Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 16): Perhaps, yes.
Perhaps, no. As mentioned above, the problem is not too much freedom, but the people who abuse those freedoms. Toxic one-sided viewpoint blogs? Ha- it is the right of the citizens of this country to be critical of their government and even though I don't agree with them, I will defend their right to say it- then I'll use my freedom of speech to say " F-U".
You seem to think that giving up some freedoms will result in greater security. To that I say go read 1984 by George Orwell. It carries a simple message: once we allow a government to spy on its own people, there is no turning back and Big Brother will be here to stay, there is no way to get rid of him. True freedom and liberty carries a risk of insecurity, but we must be able to bear this risk! While it is prudent to identify threats to our freedoms and our system of government, if we allow the government to stick its nose where it doesn't belong, then the government is the one that become the threat to our freedoms. Governments are instituted among men to secure rights, not to create them or destroy them. Give me liberty or give me death.
Itsjustme From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2620 posts, RR: 12 Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2603 times:
Quoting AirCop (Reply 10): Reminder to the thread starter, it was complaining/protesting that led to the forming of the United States of America.
Agreed. Another reminder would be to choose carefully what you're protesting. If you protest or demonstrate against the war in Iraq, for example, you might find yourself being call un-American.
Quoting Falstaff (Reply 12): I would say our freedoms are slowly eroding. Everyday there are groups of people here in the USA that want to make something or another illegal.
Like this NY Senator who obviously has way too much time on his hands and wants to make it illegal to cross the street while listening to an iPod.
Melpax From Australia, joined Apr 2005, 1344 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2575 times:
Quoting Csavel (Reply 19): Wife got a cold when we were on a ski vacation a few weeks ago. I went to a pharmacy to get her Sudafed. Guess what, I had to show ID, sign a register, so the government could keep tabs on how much Sudafed I can get - in the land of the free, that is.
This is also the case here, in fact I know people who have tried to buy Sudafed at a chemist & have been refused.
Will work for beer
25 Padraighaz: I agree with what you are saying, which is why I said 'perhaps.' I'm concerned that in an age where extremists can possibly wipe out cities, and poss
26 Padraighaz: But I'm not arguing that freedom of speech should be removed. I'm not saying these blogs should be suppressed. I'm saying there appears to be a trend
27 NASCARAirforce: Fox News would have been Hitler's network of choice had it been around in Germany in the 1930s. Wrap themselves in the flag and false patriotism, whe
28 KaiGywer: So you rather have meth users have free access to Sudafed, than you showing your ID and signing a register? You show ID to buy cigarettes, ID for alc
29 ConcordeBoy: While it's been more than a half-century since the last time another country tried... a movement is currently attempting thus. One need only view the
30 Nosedive: Called accountability. I have the right to know that elected officials are working for me. Source? Clumping together and simply put, it's a matter of
31 Padraighaz: I agree, but what has changed since Gutenberg are the consequences and risks. For example, there are rumors there is a kind of germ warfare being stu
32 Padraighaz: According to a documentary I saw, there was a practice so common it was nicknamed 'smurfing' where drug addicts would pharmacy hop, buying quantities
33 Nosedive: I'd say it's the speed; the consequences were shown in France's "Reign of Terror," supression the attempted Austrian-German liberal revolutions in 18
34 Ilikeyyc: Lots of points to respond to...so little time to type. Basicly, I think we have a lot of common ground on the issue and it is a very complex issue to
35 Jaysit: Who's saying you can't put flags up? And what flags are we talking about? And what does "bashing" Bush have to do with too much freedom? The last tim
36 Padraighaz: We are mostly in agreement. Remember, I said 'monitor' not 'censor.' While I am certainly prone to skepticism about government intentions, I don't see
37 S12PPL: Not really...Our freedoms keep getting taken away from us...
38 Deskflier: No need, You are doing such a good job of it Yourselves. By the way, I have only to look across the Baltic to see how important freedom really is to
39 D L X: That's because you watch a network that is set up around people bitching at people. You should watch Lost
40 Padraighaz: I agree with you. Given enough time, a low liklihood event will probably happen. The smaller liklihood, the longer it will take. The name of the game
41 Cba: There's your problem right there. Too much O'Reilly is bad for the brain! To quote Thomas Jefferson: "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."
42 TheCol: I hear more about the "evil empire(s)" from people who lived under any communist regime. From the stories they tell me, it's not surprising why they
43 Gunsontheroof: What the hell is up with this "abuse of freedom" I keep reading in this thread? We weren't given our freedoms on the condition that we keep them packe
44 PanAmOldDC8: Freedom is what you make it, it can help you or pull you down. It is up to you, that's what we fought for. No one can tell you what to do in a free so
45 Gunsontheroof: Roughly translated: "No one can tell you what to do in a free society*" *Some restrictions apply But that's another thread altogether.
46 OzGlobal: The human being experiences themselves as both a 'given' and a 'project' to be undertaken. That is to say, we have a vocation, a responsibility, to re
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The right to complain/demonstrate against injustice has done America well over the years. Reminder to the thread starter, it was complaining/protesting that led to the forming of the United States of America. (pay better attention in US History). 
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