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New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History  
User currently offlineWardialer From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1183 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2383 times:

There was a documentary report on CNN that the US Military is not conducting criminal backround checks when troops inlist for duty. Amoung them, are already fighting in Iraq with some major felony history like drug crimes, attempted murder, molestation, and rape crimes etc...

Do you think that its a good idea since are prisons are becoming overcrowded for felons to fight in war rather than spending time in prison?

I think, no matter how crowded the prisons are, they should stay and rot in prison rather than serve our Nation....

But my jaws just dropped after hearing how many troops esp. among the ones in Iraq are in fact inlisted with felony records....Its just disgusting.

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2374 times:

Source?

Don't you think some of these folks can be rehabilitated? Don't you think there's room for improving one's life. There are limits of course.

I still want a source link. I'd rather read/see what CNN has to say, then your obviously biased verbiage.


User currently offlineWardialer From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2370 times:

Hold on...I will tey to get it..But I hard it here in Europe which is here called CNN International.

User currently offlinePiercey From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 2233 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2359 times:

Quoting Wardialer (Thread starter):

I think your name enough allows me to post this:  redflag 



Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7408 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2359 times:
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Quoting Wardialer (Thread starter):
There was a documentary report on CNN that the US Military is not conducting criminal backround checks when troops inlist for duty. Amoung them, are already fighting in Iraq with some major felony history like drug crimes, attempted murder, molestation, and rape crimes etc...

Do you think that its a good idea since are prisons are becoming overcrowded for felons to fight in war rather than spending time in prison?

I think, no matter how crowded the prisons are, they should stay and rot in prison rather than serve our Nation....

But my jaws just dropped after hearing how many troops esp. among the ones in Iraq are in fact inlisted with felony records....Its just disgusting.

This is the same CNN that ran footage of insurgent snipers picking off US troops and refused to provide intel. Glad to see them continue try and cut the military down. I think it's time to rename them AL CNN

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Source?

There's nothing at CNN.com yet. While I believe it maybe possible that some recruits may slip past backround checks initially, they're usually caught and dismissed form service when they're found out. I'd like to see compelling evidense before I pass judgement, but this smells like BS to me.



Made from jets!
User currently offlineNeilYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2353 times:

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 2):

Google should solve that problem.

I don't doubt that there are past criminals that serve in the Army. That being said, if they are up to the job, and have served their debt to society why not let them join the military.

The existence of a criminal in the military serves both parties, if the individual is dedicated the military gets a dood extra man, and conversely, the military offers an honorable lifestyle, a good wage and a level of discipline that would help prevent recidivism.


User currently offlineCairo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2335 times:

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 4):
While I believe it maybe possible that some recruits may slip past backround checks initially



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Source?

When I was last working in Dallas year-around, in 2003, I worked in my free time with a group that works to get young (18-29) homeless people off the street.

For anyone who was mildly or more interested in the military, a recruiter was always eager to talk with them. Houston and Austin had similar 'recruiting programs'.

9 times out of 10 they had criminal backgrounds up to felonies like robbery and serious drug dealing.

This was only a MINOR issue to the recruiters from all 4 branches, and even when they would fail the pre-entry drug test, the army recruiters could always somehow get the recruit in. Missing a HS diploma? No problem. Serious drug issues? No problem. Felonies? Ignored.

The army guys would take anyone and numerous entries on numerous forms were either misleadingly left blank or otherwise inaccurate. They were the last possible ticket out of jail for a lot of young men.

The local judges and prosecutors were in on it too. I remember one especially amazing case where a young man had 10 or so felonies and was in jail on 25+ more charges, almost all drug related. His bail was over $100k. The army recruiter was called, all charges were dropped, and he was in Iraq within a few months.

I have to say that I then thought everyone was better off with them in Iraq, or wherever else they ended up, rather than living under an overpass in Dallas, which is precisely where they all lived when they weren't in jail.

A lot of them were just dumb kids, with little or no parenting, who needed a kick in the ass and were apparently rehabilitated by the military - I heard about many who went on to good or at least satisfactory careers.

In any event, I find the shocked reaction from those close to the military at this practice quite ridiculous. Much of the law enforcement, judicial, and charity communities in (at least several) major cities knows the military, especially the army, is a viable place to send young offenders you want out of your city, felonies or not.

Cairo


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2324 times:

Quoting Cairo (Reply 6):

There are limits, like I said above.

Sometimes, the military is a good place for some of these younger kids that have never had any direction. Sometimes it is not. Sometimes, the incorrigable ones make it through and that is not good.

Quoting Cairo (Reply 6):
A lot of them were just dumb kids, with little or no parenting, who needed a kick in the ass and were apparently rehabilitated by the military - I heard about many who went on to good or at least satisfactory careers.

My former platoon sergeant, from Ft. Hood, Texas - way back before most of your were a glimmer - was a convicted Felon. From Boston. One of the best damn soldiers I ever met. Taught me a lot. Straightened his like out and went on to retire from the Army as a First Sergeant.

The judge gave him a choice. Jail or Army. "John" said it was the smartest move he ever made. Helped him out, helped him up, made a productive citizen of him. Great wife and family too. Especially his daughter Sheri Leigh  biggrin  . . .


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20562 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2322 times:

Here 'tis, it's in video form only at the moment, about 7 minutes long:

http://www.cnn.com/video/us/2007/02/...e.felons.military.cnn/content.html



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2282 times:

I remember a report in a german TV magazine a few years ago.

In the wake of the Abu Ghraib scandal they investigated a bit about how the military selected personnel for the military prison system. It turned out that there was apparently an active selection being done for people with civilian background as prison guards with a known record of being "tough", with all that entails.

It puts the excesses that resulted not just in Abu Ghraib but also in other places in a much different context than just being individual failures of judgment.

You select and lead people in a certain way and it will show up in the results, still with plausible deniability for those who engineered it in the first place and who are acting all shocked and surprised when the intended results become public at last.

It's why I find the reluctance to look upwards to the higher ranks (military and civilian) especially deplorable when stuff like that happens...

And make no mistake - the mechanism works like that pretty much everywhere, not just in the US troops.


User currently offlinePanAmOldDC8 From Barbados, joined Dec 2006, 960 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2270 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 9):
And make no mistake - the mechanism works like that pretty much everywhere, not just in the US troops.

In war these things happen to the best of troops, they are several examples in both WW2 and Vietnam, when troops are under strain, a lot of things happen. I am not excusing the behaviour, however I understand what can happen given the circumstances. All sides in WW2 used people that had records, with a promise to rescind the penalty when the war was over. We are only human beings and we do things under pressure that we would not normally do. They should face the full court and no cover ups, regardless of who it is. But unless you have walked a mile in their shoes, it is difficult for us to know what happened to make them snap



Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2263 times:

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 10):
In war these things happen to the best of troops, they are several examples in both WW2 and Vietnam, when troops are under strain, a lot of things happen.



Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 10):
But unless you have walked a mile in their shoes, it is difficult for us to know what happened to make them snap

My whole point is that it is often too easy to indict and jail the executing individuals when they basically performed as condoned or even encouraged from above.

While criminal culpability can still be correctly assigned among the lower ranks, there have been many examples in recent and in more distant history that the tone and implicit understanding set by the leadership will find expression in actions below.

Propaganda and "informal orders" don't exculpate the individual, but not even looking at how such a development originally came about is a mistake.

I don't think it's a problem per se having former felons or people with troubled backgrounds among the ranks; I believe in giving people chances, and in many cases that turns out well.

But when the spirit and understanding coming from above amounts to such things as "the gloves are off" and open discussions about the legalization of torture, it sets a tone which will be taken up by many, especially by those who have problematic tendencies regarding violence or demeaning others to boost their own self-image.

I'm sure there are many upstanding and respectable people in most armies, but the circumstances and the kind of leadership they're subjected to will make a difference in how everybody reacts to a given challenge.

I'm sure you know that better than most...


User currently offlineFrequentflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 736 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2256 times:

If somebody believes that Army folks are always beyond suspicion, well they are in for a surprise!
Some contingents of the French Army for example offer the possibility to adopt another identity upon joining. At one point it was a requirement.



Take off and live
User currently offlineTheSorcerer From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 1048 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2253 times:

Quoting Frequentflyer (Reply 12):

If the person is being sought after for serious offences like murder,rape that sort of thing, they are more likely to be turned over to Interpol (this wasn't the case in the past) . Taking a new identity is no longer mandatory.

Dominic



ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2234 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 7):
Sometimes, the military is a good place for some of these younger kids that have never had any direction.

Very true; there was been numerous success stories of members of the military that had a "rough" upbringing and turning their life's around.

Quoting Wardialer (Thread starter):
Amoung them, are already fighting in Iraq with some major felony history like drug crimes, attempted murder, molestation, and rape crimes etc...

Drug crimes; are we talking possession or sales? Most of the people convicted of attempted murder, rape would be doing prison time and wouldn't be able to enlist. Remember if you're found guilty of a charged and only arrested, in the eyes of the law, the event didn't happen.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39857 posts, RR: 74
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2221 times:

I doubt the Bush administration is in a position to be picky about who fights his war in Iraq. The idiot has gone as far as Mongolia in search of troops to fight his war.
Personally I don't have a problem with prisoners serving in the military. As ANCFlyer noted above, the military is a good avenue for these kinds of people to go to get there life in order.


I think its in poor taste to lump all felons in to one group of people that think and act the same way. There are various degrees of felons. A drug pusher (cocaine, meth retailers) certainly aren't the pillars of our society but I have no problem with them being able to enlist in the military. Obviously they are making a step in turning there life around.
I have a hard time believing that murderers, rapist or child molesters slipping through the cracks. Due to the level of the crime, there is publicity surrounding these cases and a high profile criminal wouldn't be able to slip through so easily.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20562 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2200 times:

Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
Drug crimes; are we talking possession or sales? Most of the people convicted of attempted murder, rape would be doing prison time and wouldn't be able to enlist. Remember if you're found guilty of a charged and only arrested, in the eyes of the law, the event didn't happen.

If you watched the video, it traced the case of a soldier, Bob Gidding, who was given a waiver for his jail time to serve in Iraq. His crime was arson, that he committed on another man's car when he learned his wife was pregnant, and accused her of having an affair with this other man. He was given a 3-year suspended sentence on top of 5 months in jail. One of the conditions of his sentence was that he was not to possess a gun.

The Army Reserve gave him a waiver in order to serve in Iraq before serving his sentence (he's actually been on two tours now, without having served his sentence), and even while it's never been clear by the Army's records if the ban on possessing a gun was lifted by the judge, Gidding was made into a military police officer.

One of the problems the story points out is that convicted felons are allowed to enlist and serve, and are continually promoted and given security clearances, with their numbers growing higher every year.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineWardialer From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2179 times:

But however...I think all BS myself....Because the US Military is a high role model to the rest of the worl and I really doubt that is really happening....

I think all BS...


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20562 posts, RR: 62
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2166 times:

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 17):
I think all BS...

What's BS? The story? Your post? Please, give us a clue. I went to a lot of trouble to find the video and post it. The least you could do in return is offer the courtesy of some sense to your post.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinePanAmOldDC8 From Barbados, joined Dec 2006, 960 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2150 times:

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 17):
But however...I think all BS myself....Because the US Military is a high role model to the rest of the worl and I really doubt that is really happening....

The best sometimes cave in and do terrible things, saw it in Nam, so I know from first hand, sometimes people just snap for no reason and if they have a gun they will use it, if they think they are threatened. War brings out the worst and the best in all of us. the US Armed Forces are among the best in the world, however things like that happen. Very sad but also very true



Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2147 times:

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 17):
But however...I think all BS myself....Because the US Military is a high role model to the rest of the worl and I really doubt that is really happening....

I think all BS...

Westy, I think he was being sarcastic...!  mischievous 


User currently offlineWrenchBender From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1779 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2145 times:

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 17):
But however...I think all BS myself....Because the US Military is a high role model to the rest of the worl and I really doubt that is really happening....

So what is the point of your post then??
Most militaries around the world have admitted criminals to their ranks. The French Foreign Legion was famous for it, once you completed your time you came out with a clean identity and a French passport. I was in recruit school with at least half a dozen guys that were given a "choice" by a judge... It was pretty simple "join the military or go to jail". All of them made good careers in the Canadian Forces, and I know of one that is still in almost 28 years later.
As stated by some of the other members here it may be the only chance some of these guys have to actually straighten up and fly right.


WrenchBender



Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20562 posts, RR: 62
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2141 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 20):
Westy, I think he was being sarcastic...!   

Well you just never know these days, there are so many tin-foil hat wearing lurkers around here.  worried 



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2136 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 22):
Well you just never know these days, there are so many tin-foil hat wearing lurkers around here.

Indeed - but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt...!  mischievous 


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20562 posts, RR: 62
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2134 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 23):
but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt...

But you didn't go searching for the video, I did (so I get my 15 minutes of bitching).  angel 



International Homo of Mystery
25 Post contains images Klaus : You're my hero! (Must admit I didn't watch it as I've already heard similar reports from other sources over time.)
26 Wardialer : WrenchBender, Well. even Hitler's army were given Methamphetamine....to purk them up and to fight even better... Hence, EVEN US Air Force pilots and s
27 Post contains images ANCFlyer : THis has nothing to do with the Bush Administration 'Fly. This policy has been around for decades. Too bad you'll have to wait for another thread for
28 Post contains images Superfly : Isn't he the commander and chief?
29 ANCFlyer : Same point I made with you in the other thread 'Fly . . . Unwarranted and pointless Bush Bashing makes you look - foolish my friend.
30 AeroWesty : To be fair, this entire thread was malformed from the start, and is heading towards something you'd see coming from a think tank headquartered at a t
31 Superfly : ...and your rush to defend Bush makes you look - foolish my friend.
32 PanAmOldDC8 : You know everyone blames the President, regardless of the party in power, when things go wrong with the military 1. The President is the CinC, but is
33 Post contains images WrenchBender : Is it just me or did Stewie just arrive back on A.Net ? WrenchBender
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