AirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2218 times:
From the AP date 2/8/07 at 1203PST; Gunmen stopped a pickup truck full of illegal immigrants, shot several and took the rest captive Thursdays in an attack that left at least three dead and two people wounded. Apparently this happen along the smuggling corridor near Tucson. The link is www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/02/08/national (Suddenly for some reason I haven't been able to post articles)
Since assault rifles were used; I would suppose that gangs that prey on illegal immigrants were involved and not the minutemen type organizations.
NWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2194 times:
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 1): Why do I get the feeling there are plenty of people in this nation who won't mind this?
Because many won't.
With me, it's more complicated - I mind that whoever shot these people did so illegally - they had no right to do so, and they deserve the necessary punishment. However, am I breaking any tears because we have less illegal aliens now than we would have? Hardly. The lack of respect for our sovereignty is mind boggling, as is the fact that all of the leaders of this country have done jack shit about this problem.
Maybe this event..........and the fact that many of our citizens feel the need to solve this problem themselves may serve as a wake-up call for our government. If not, I bet we're bound to see more of it.
Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2177 times:
Quoting NWA742 (Reply 3): However, am I breaking any tears because we have less illegal aliens now than we would have? Hardly. The lack of respect for our sovereignty is mind boggling, as is the fact that all of the leaders of this country have done jack shit about this problem.
Incredible.
So you think this illegal punishment fits their crime? They deserve to DIE because they crossed illegally?
That's not justice you're half-condoning, it's vigilantism, and it has no place in this nation, illegal immigrants or not.
It's just pure disregard for human life, which, as far as I can see, trumps disregard for soverignty.
Searpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4343 posts, RR: 12 Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2160 times:
Unfortunately this was all but inevitable. The frustrations that folks on the border feel are rapidly approaching the point of overriding rational thought and action.
Quoting AirCop (Thread starter): Since assault rifles were used; I would suppose that gangs that prey on illegal immigrants were involved and not the minutemen type organizations.
Not that it makes the murders any more acceptable, but I hope for the sake of the Minute Men its true.
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 4): I saw an article yesterday that mentioned that the memberships in the KKK and Nazi groups are rising, because of anti-Mexican sentiment.
I read the same article, scary stuff. And ironic considering the recent indictments handed down for the kidnapping and murders in MS.
Quoting NWA742 (Reply 3): Maybe this event..........and the fact that many of our citizens feel the need to solve this problem themselves may serve as a wake-up call for our government. If not, I bet we're bound to see more of it.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
Bullshit Falcon, and you know it. I never said any such thing. I expressed pure condemnation for their vigilante actions - what more do you want?
Half-hearted at best. On one hand you say "well, that guy was a lout for doing that", while on the other saying "well, the were only illegals-who cares if they got killed."
Sorry, my friend, I find that reprehensible. They didn't deserve that fate for wanting a better life, illegally or otherwise.
I do have sympathy for those who were killed-because they didn't deserve it.
Fumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2156 times:
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 4): True. I saw an article yesterday that mentioned that the memberships in the KKK and Nazi groups are rising, because of anti-Mexican sentiment.
Well the link doesn't open for me but....
Everyone who lives along the border knows what happened. There is a rising war between coyotes who are smuggling the illegals. Just about a year ago there was a gunfight on the highways here in Phoenix. A coyote in a criminal organization spotted one of his competition with a load of illegal's and opened up. The other promptly returned fire.
What evidence does anyone have that this is from white people hating the Mexicans?
None. It may be the case, but I'm willing to put money on a battle between smugglers.
NWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2125 times:
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 8): On one hand you say "well, that guy was a lout for doing that", while on the other saying "well, the were only illegals-who cares if they got killed."
Those who fired the guns had no right to do so - they should be held to the law like anyone else.
And yes they were illegal aliens who were killed - maybe if they didn't have a complete disregard for the sovereignty of this nation, they would be alive today, huh?
No sympathy here, just as I have no sympathy anyone else who gets hurt, drowns, starves, dehydrates, shot, or anything while trying to cross our borders illegally.
Perhaps instead of flocking across our borders and infesting our country with their problems, they should coordinate those efforts to solving problems at home.
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 8): I do have sympathy for those who were killed-because they didn't deserve it.
Sorry, I don't share the same bleeding heart mentality.
AirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2119 times:
Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 9):
None. It may be the case, but I'm willing to put money on a battle between smugglers.
What we don't need here in Arizona, is having this spill over into our communities, of course, the Bush Administration is planning to cut funding to the state and local communities to help fight this problem. What will be the final cost to Pima County and the State to investigate the crime, to pay the medical costs of those that survived, as usual the taxpayers of Arizona, Texas, New Mexico and California are getting the shaft from Washington, having to pay for a federal problem.
Fumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2110 times:
Quoting AirCop (Reply 11): What we don't need here in Arizona, is having this spill over into our communities, of course, the Bush Administration is planning to cut funding to the state and local communities to help fight this problem. What will be the final cost to Pima County and the State to investigate the crime, to pay the medical costs of those that survived, as usual the taxpayers of Arizona, Texas, New Mexico and California are getting the shaft from Washington, having to pay for a federal problem.
I agree 100% The border states are having to pay for all of the cheap labor the Bush administration is allowing to flow into the country.
The talk of amnesty will just cause more to come over, just like they did after Reagan's amnesty in 1985.
The wall will only temporarily dwindle the flow.
If the government truely wanted to stop this flow of cheap labor, they would start fining employers, but Bush would never do that. Conversely they should allow more legal immigrants to enter every year to fill in the empty jobs.
I really feel for the Mexican immigrant as they are just trying to find a better way of life, but its getting really bad down here. Street crime committed by illegals is common, the prisons have more illegal latin Americans in them then any other ethnicity, the medical establishments (which don't start with M and end with O) are going bankrupt, and the illegals are prone to being taken advantage of by coyotes, thiefs, greedy and unscruplous business men, and even drug runners.
FutureSDPDcop From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1291 posts, RR: 5 Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2080 times:
Can these guys take a road trip to Southern California?
Fumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2076 times:
Violence on the rise
DeRouchey said robberies, assaults, kidnappings and other violence among smugglers skyrocketed after the first major incident four years ago, a shootout between coyotes at an auto parts store in Phoenix.
For the past two years, freeway hijackings along I-10 between Tucson and Phoenix have been on the rise, Department of Public Safety spokesman Frank Valenzuela said.
"It is happening in enough frequency that we are concerned about the safety of the public," he said. "We have been lucky, like (Tuesday's) situation." However, DPS doesn't plan on increasing patrols on the freeways in part because of a lack of resources and manpower.
Hijackings of undocumented immigrants on freeways are also on the rise in Phoenix.
"We have had a trend in the last two months of a significant increase in smuggling operations where another group of smugglers will lock that vehicle in the middle of the road and rob their cargo," said Lt. Rob Robinson. "With two cars slowing it down, it is actually very easy and hard to be caught."
About a dozen of the freeway hijackings have occurred in the past two months. Of those, about six involved shootings.
During the past five months, 80 smugglers have been arrested in the Valley, 58 of those since Oct. 1.
The surge in smuggling-related violence has been attributed to huge increases in the fees coyotes charge, beefed-up border enforcement and Arizona's growing role as a funnel for illegal immigration thanks to crackdowns in California and Texas.
Fifteen years ago, an immigrant could be smuggled from Mexico to a U.S. destination for $200 or less. Today, the price is about $1,500. And without guides, the trip is nearly impossible.
"Gone are the days that a person can just walk across," DeRouchey said. "You can't do it without a smuggler or guide."
Ransom demands
Rip-off gangs began abducting immigrants from other coyotes and holding them for ransom, knowing that no one would report the crime to police.
As the kidnappings became epidemic, those involved armed themselves, often with assault rifles.
KiwiinOz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2029 posts, RR: 5 Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2060 times:
Quoting NWA742 (Reply 3): With me, it's more complicated - I mind that whoever shot these people did so illegally - they had no right to do so, and they deserve the necessary punishment. However, am I breaking any tears because we have less illegal aliens now than we would have? Hardly. The lack of respect for our sovereignty is mind boggling, as is the fact that all of the leaders of this country have done jack shit about this problem.
Quoting NWA742 (Reply 6): Sorry, but I have absolutely no sympathy for EITHER party in this case.
Quoting NWA742 (Reply 10): No sympathy here, just as I have no sympathy anyone else who gets hurt, drowns, starves, dehydrates, shot, or anything while trying to cross our borders illegally.
These people died for crossing a border illegally and you don't have any sympathy??
I appreciate America has an illegal immigrant problem and agree with measures to control it, but to have to no compassion for a fellow human in such a horrific situation is pretty screwed up. If you are suggesting that the punishment fits the crime, (as it seems you are), there is something pretty sad about that.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 80 Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2051 times:
Quoting NWA742 (Reply 6): Sorry, but I have absolutely no sympathy for EITHER party in this case.
You have no sympathy for the victims of murder?
Quoting FutureSDPDcop (Reply 14): Can these guys take a road trip to Southern California?
I hope you never become a police officer, because someone willing to condone the actions of a murderer should never be there to enforce the law.
I guess a ban means we wont be hearing from a posseur we all know who is likely reacting with glee at this murder.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
FlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1992 times:
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 1): Why do I get the feeling there are plenty of people in this nation who won't mind this?
First thing that crossed my mind when reading the headline ...
Quote: They deserve to DIE because they crossed illegally?
There are a ton of people - a ton of people in Texas who think that way.
Quoting Searpqx (Reply 7): Unfortunately this was all but inevitable.
Yea, am surprised it did not happen sooner. More than not, the vigilantes and other gun toting groups on the border are a racist, trigger happy bunch on a leave of absence from their "state militia" group.
LHMARK From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 51 Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1982 times:
Here's another border at which people would be killed when crossing.
Do we really want this type of parallel easily drawn?
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
Yyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 15989 posts, RR: 59 Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1905 times:
They did not deserve to die, but then I have no sympathy for them either. They were law-breaking economic migrants. Clear undesirables. They were in a place they had no legal right to be, in this case the US.
Quoting Queso (Reply 18): I am strongly against illegal immigration.
I am also strongly against murder.
I hope that the people who committed this crime are brought to swift and effective justice.
Which crime are you talking about? The murders? Or the illegal border crossings? Both are serious crimes.
Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
WellHung From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1893 times:
Quoting NWA742 (Reply 10): And yes they were illegal aliens who were killed - maybe if they didn't have a complete disregard for the sovereignty of this nation, they would be alive today, huh?
Maybe if some people weren't driving around looking for people to kill, they would be alive today. Just come out and say they deserved to die. No use speaking in code. Your intentions are thinly veiled.
There are ways a country can protect this 'sovereignty', but just because a country does not have an effective way of stopping all illegal immigration does not mean people deserve to be murdered. It is no secret that the US needs a massive reorganization of it's illegal immigration policies and practices. But I don't think civilian yeehaws tooling around with assault rifles shooting anyone they believe to be illegal because they 'deserve' to die is part of any plan. Nothing like claiming to love the country while violating one of its basic tenets of law.
Make no mistake - these sickos wanted to kill someone. And they used these folks as an excuse.
Quoting NWA742 (Reply 10): No sympathy here, just as I have no sympathy anyone else who gets hurt, drowns, starves, dehydrates, shot, or anything while trying to cross our borders illegally.
Or, say, talks on a cell phone, jaywalks, makes a wrong turn or looks at someone cross eyed.
Quoting NWA742 (Reply 10): Sorry, I don't share the same bleeding heart mentality.
This is the one statement that rings true. You have an entirely different (and literal) bleeding heart mentality.
NWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1861 times:
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13): I see it as a basic respect and regard for human life, whether it is here legally or otherwise.
Simple, decent respect for life is what it is, not how you put it.
Wrong, it is a bleeding heart mentality. Did you show the same respect and regard for Saddam? Was he human? Did you feel sorry for him? No, you didn't. That doesn't mean you don't respect human life.
This is a difference of opinion, and a difference in a way of thinking. You feel sorry for them, I don't. Let's quit with the implications that I don't respect human life.
Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 16): These people died for crossing a border illegally and you don't have any sympathy??
No. They won't make the same mistake again, now will they?
Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 16): If you are suggesting that the punishment fits the crime, (as it seems you are
Never said nor implied any such thing.
Quoting N1120A (Reply 17): You have no sympathy for the victims of murder?
Spare me with the vague BS.
Quoting WellHung (Reply 22): Maybe if some people weren't driving around looking for people to kill, they would be alive today
Also true. What they did was disgusting.
Quoting WellHung (Reply 22): Just come out and say they deserved to die. No use speaking in code. Your intentions are thinly veiled.
I would say they deserved to die if I actually felt that way. Just because my heart isn't bleeding over this little event doesn't mean I support, in any way, what happened. I don't support it, but I also won't shed any tears that illegal immigrants died while trying to enter the border of my country without any respect or regard to its sovereignty and rule of law.
Quoting WellHung (Reply 22): There are ways a country can protect this 'sovereignty', but just because a country does not have an effective way of stopping all illegal immigration does not mean people deserve to be murdered. It is no secret that the US needs a massive reorganization of it's illegal immigration policies and practices. But I don't think civilian yeehaws tooling around with assault rifles shooting anyone they believe to be illegal because they 'deserve' to die is part of any plan. Nothing like claiming to love the country while violating one of its basic tenets of law.
Make no mistake - these sickos wanted to kill someone. And they used these folks as an excuse.
Although this is rare - I agree with you 100%.
Quoting WellHung (Reply 22): Or, say, talks on a cell phone, jaywalks, makes a wrong turn or looks at someone cross eyed.
And we're comparing these actions to willingly and unlawfully entering another nation's land?
Quoting WellHung (Reply 22): This is the one statement that rings true. You have an entirely different (and literal) bleeding heart mentality.
KiwiinOz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2029 posts, RR: 5 Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1847 times:
Seems like life is pretty cheap to some people. Although I guess it depends largely on whose life it is.....
2012....the year for goofing off
25 AsstChiefMark: You don't enter someone's house without their permission. Why should illegal aliens enter our country without permission? I'd like to move to the UK,
26 KiwiinOz: I agree with everything you are saying here, and agree that control is an issue. My issue is that the Mexicans have become so dehumanised in some peo
27 AsstChiefMark: Here's the key. If someone barges into my property and sets up camp without my permission, they better leave when I tell them to. If they don't leave
28 Asuflyer05: According to azcentral.com this incident is another example of competition between smugglers Gunmen in fatal Ariz. attack likely rival smugglers By A
30 Fumanchewd: As said, illegal immigration needs to be stopped. All of the above posts concerning the Minutemen are incorrect. This is all coyote news. There is a
32 ME AVN FAN: Murder is murder. And whomever condones murder, is in favour of crime. Beside the point that such murderers will NOT hesitate to kill others includin
33 AGM100: Frankly I am surprised that this does not happen more often. This could be a dangerous escalation of the border problems here in AZ. We know that the
34 Fumanchewd: [/quote] You couldn't be further from the truth of what happened. Most smugglers are Mexican nationals. There are other races as well, but the only co
35 DavestanKSAN: Hardly a fair comparison. So you're saying these Illegal Immigrants were as bad as Saddam? Dave
36 N1120A: If they break the law, they can go to jail. Hmmm, dictator who invaded his neighbors (with US approval) twice or a couple guys coming over to pick st
37 AGM100: They do not put the illegals in jail when they catch them. At least for the most part, they are processed and returned to Mexico or wherever they cam
38 Carmenlu15: As much as I disapprove of illegal immigration, some of the replies here make me sick. BTW, for all of you generalizing about all those "Mexican illeg
39 NWA742: There is, however, something extremely ambiguous about your statement - that's because it was toned to give off a false impression. But of course, yo
40 L-188: Just what we don't need. Sounds like that was a red herring thrown up by pro-immigration forces in this case. Actually I would call that a good sign
41 N1120A: No it wasn't. Murder is wrong. Getting murdered is not acceptable and reason to empathize with anyone. Yes they do. It just happens that the penalty
42 Superfly: Agreed! Don't expect these jerks to be that sophisticated to understand the difference. All these see is brown people and they want to kill them. Tot
43 NWA742: Yes, it was - classic example. And when have I said otherwise? BS. Anyone who says this is either flat out lying out of their ass or has no blood lef
44 L-188: Sorry but I call that not going to jail. Going to jail means staying in jail.
45 FlyDeltaJets87: My first thought was comparing it to driving drunk or getting caught in a high-speed pursuit or idiots who die while over dosing on illegal drugs. I
46 DavestanKSAN: Uh no I didn't miss the point, I just think your argument was weak. I knew exactly what you were trying to do. Trust me. Sorry, in this context you a
47 Superfly: FlyDeltaJets87: So just blow there brains out then, huh.
48 FlyingTexan: Many don't know the difference - they just see brown people and think illegal. Or hear "illegal immigrant" and blame Mexico. Its unfortunate but we l
49 NWA742: If you didn't miss the point, you obviously missed the logic. Speaking of weak arguments: You have the order of things correct, but in no way does it
50 DavestanKSAN: Sigh. How do you know what his line of reasoning was? So I guess all Falcon84 posts are NWA742 posts now? It's as clear as day what he said. Here's i
51 NWA742: He said it. .... Acknowledged previously. And I do too! What you fail to include is his mentality, his line of thought, the basis of his reason, or a
52 Allstarflyer: N-dub, as much as I can't stand knowing there are illegal immigrants flowing over the border, Falcon and N1120A are right. Falcon's remarks woke me u
53 DavestanKSAN: You change so quickly: I guess it comes down to this; I am taking what Falcon said in his own words, and you are climbing inside Falcon's head and yo
54 NWA742: Me too. Wrong - my argument stemmed from his words, not his head. He is the one who mentioned his mentality, or line of thought, or basis of reason,
55 N1120A: Geography education reform is needed before people start interjecting themselves into immigration debates. Mexico = North America. Ok, whatever, deal
56 ME AVN FAN: not only immigrants do NOT fear breaking the laws ! - - is the demand for fair treatment justifying a murderous "backlash" ? - - I suggest that you s
57 AGM100: Brilliant ! sorry their closed today its Sunday .. My point was that we never hear much criticism of the Mexican government on this issue. Its always
58 ME AVN FAN: no, no, no , no, no, I am quite sure that the Mexican government is NOT in real terms trying to hinder anybody trying to get illegally into the USA !
59 FlyDeltaJets87: Yes Fly. I say we put guys with 50 Cal's on the border to just start unloading on these people. *sarcasm* I'd appreciate it if you'd stop putting wor
60 N1120A: Actually, that situation happens all the time, where victims don't want to see anymore people dead.
61 NWA742: Take a look at what you wrote: I have no sympathy for illegal aliens who happen to die in the process of infesting my country with their problems - t
62 Nancy: The people who killed the illegal immigrants are either murdering them for money or because they just like killing people. If you condone their behavi
63 ME AVN FAN: in reply nr 3 you stated " am I breaking any tears because we have less illegal aliens now than we would have? Hardly." which in my view is a condoni
64 Confuscius: Why do I get the feeling there are plenty of people in this nation who won't mind this? On a somewhat related subject... Vandals strike migrant encamp
65 57AZ: On the contrary, I would say that the majority of illegals present in Arizona do not commit crimes for the fear of deportation if they are caught and
67 Mika: As i see it the good people of Spain are having a very similar problem, illegal immigrants from western african countries are coming in to the docks a
68 Mika: Where exactly do you draw the line? Think a while about that and compare it to other similar scenarios where a person in desperation sees no other so
69 ME AVN FAN: you here compare a minor "law-offence" with wilful murder. Their offence is less then pick-pocketing or theft in a shop, while murder is murder and s
70 Scorpio: The kind of thinking where people trying to find a better life in another country are seen as lower life forms (as in: deserving to be killed) is fri
71 FlyDeltaJets87: It's not legal to immigrate to the United States from Mexico or any other country in Central/South America? I did not know that. Please elaborate on
72 KaiGywer: Both. The murderers should be brought to justice. The illegals...well, they're already dealt with. I agree with Queso. Murder is wrong, and illegals
73 ME AVN FAN: - no, they canNOT legally immigrate and find work. Otherwise they would DO so. - "too" ? To say it again, the murderers are murderers which is a capi
74 FlyDeltaJets87: Superfly, the original post I made got deleted because it referenced your post, which was deleted. I'm still going to say the second part of what I sa
76 Superfly: FlyDeltaJets87: Dude, get a gripe. I'd say the same thing to you face to face. Of the many people here at A.net that I have met will tell you that I a
77 NWA742: Uhhhh.........no, it's not the same, not hardly. Did I want these illegals murdered? No. Was I hoping for it to happen? No. Did I want them crossing
78 FlyDeltaJets87: First, You know damn well what that was referenced to your remark calling me "un-American" and "having no respect for human life", but the post that
79 Scorpio: Über- and Untermenschen it is. You've as much as implied it. Well, not this: ...yet another way of trying to justify the killing of these people. Wh
80 Superfly: FlyDeltaJets87: Dude, you need to calm down. You aren't making any sense what so ever. Keep on posting. At this point you are entertainment.
81 FlyDeltaJets87: You couldn't present one bit of evidence to prove your point when asked. (Gee, there's a shocker. ) Your entire argument against me is based on impli
82 Superfly: FlyDeltaJets87: Did you even have question?
83 Scorpio: ..exactly. How is it NOT? It's very clear from your posts here that, given the chance, you'd shake these guys' hands. You've made your point very cle
84 NWA742: You match racist Nazi beliefs with my lack of feeling sorry for those who were killed - wow. Bleeding heart thinking at it's finest. More speculative
85 N1120A: One of those has to change. The two statements are mutually exclusive. BTW, did you eat your vegetables today?
86 KiwiinOz: As with many situations in life, we form our impressions of a person based on a collection of a person's actions/ideas that don't neccesarily indicat
87 NWA742: That's right - people do form impressions based on a person's collection of actions and thoughts. However, when those people take it a step further b
88 KiwiinOz: Actually, it's starting to seem like you are the more emotional one in the room here. It sounds like we are violently agreeing here. I'm not saying t
89 ME AVN FAN: ok, let me ask you then: can any Latin American who wants to live and work in the USA obtain a US-VISA and US-working-permit without any problem ? -
90 FlyDeltaJets87: Now you're trying to change your arugment because your first one was beaten. But that aside, I will agree that our immigration policy is plagued by b
91 NWA742: Wrong yet again N1120A - wanting or not wanting something to happen is a completely different reflection than how one feels about something that has
92 ME AVN FAN: Sorry, the reply above landed up in the wrong thread. - YES, my argument WAS "beaten" in so far as you claim that EVERY Latin American willing to imm
93 FlyDeltaJets87: YOUR CAPS LOCK KEY BROKEN TOO? But to answer your question, we all know the answer is "no", it is not possible. Then again, it's not possible for eve
94 ME AVN FAN: bank-robbery in most countries is regarded as a severe crime, so that even having "understanding" with a bankrobber does NOT change the fact that he
95 Scorpio: The Nazis felt certain people's lives weren't worth as much as others'. You're doing the same. Your whole attitude here just breathes it. Sure, you n
96 Fumanchewd: I just wanted to add that in my time incarcerated in Arizona there are groups of "races". I use the quotes because that is how it is explained to ever
97 ME AVN FAN: If I understand you correctly, the crimes committed are NOT so much the illegal immigration but "real" things like drug trafficking ? The reality is
98 Fumanchewd: As I said, all of the race qualifications are "arguable". I disagree with how alot of things are done in there but it is not my place to argue. I kno
99 KaiGywer: Yes they can. Between 1992-1994 451,761 Mexicans alone were legally admitted for permanent residence. From 1995-1997 the number stayed as the highest
100 ME AVN FAN: - Now a question: what are the conditions involved ? and why are some people legally admitted and others in Latin America apparently have no chance ?
101 KaiGywer: USCIS.gov. Click here for all the ways of getting in. Because some qualify for the rules listed above, and some don't. That is our prerogative. Do yo
102 ME AVN FAN: thanks. THIS explains it fairly clearly. Both the "immigration through employment" AND the "immigration through family-member" allows a considerable
103 NWA742: Yes Scorpio - when all else fails, whenever you simply cannot back up anything you say, you pull the Nazi card. It all the more figures. The Nazis fe
104 FlyDeltaJets87: Scopio and these others get pissed when we compare criminals with other criminals, but then he turns around and compares our views to that of Nazis.
105 ME AVN FAN: in such cases, they had no pity from my side. I did NOT refer to somebody getting killed during committing a crime or on the escape from it. I referr
106 Scorpio: Never said you were a Nazi, just that you seem to share at least one of their ideologies. If it walks like a duck... Yes. I'm not the only one seeing
107 NWA742: Doesn't matter - you've clearly implied it several times now, and that's bad enough. Which one? The fact that I view some forms of life as "lower" th
108 FlyDeltaJets87: And what ideology would this be? The Nazi's murdered completely innocent people solely on the basis of their race and religion. You care to point out
109 Mika: What do you suggest someone who cant earn enough money in their own country to feed themselves should do then? Lay down and die in order to not 'infe
110 Scorpio: Nah. Just that you shared one ideology with them. The one where it leaves you stone-cold that certain people get killed, and merely because of what t
111 KaiGywer: They were committing a crime. Illegally enterting the US. So you think that anybody from poor countries should be able to come to Sweden any time the
112 FlyDeltaJets87: Please see Reply 1 and then you will not be so quick to make accusations. As for me, my first reply in this thread was post 45. I'm sure if
113 Scorpio: He was right, wasn't he? Not caring about people's death merely for what they are. No. But all of those start from not caring about people's deaths b
114 ME AVN FAN: Exactly like TAX EVASION which by US-laws indeed IS a "crime" while it in Switzerland simply is, just as illegal border crossing, an "offence". Half
115 KiwiinOz: I guess that's kind of what I was trying to say earlier, however you were able to put it much more eloquently, thanks. I wholeheartedly agree with yo
116 Scorpio: Well said, and spot on. So, I repeat what I said earlier:
117 KaiGywer: Norway does the same thing. Our churches do "Church Asylum" where people who claim they are refugees, but can't back their claim up will be protected
118 ME AVN FAN: This sounds as if illegal immigration also in Norway is just a "customs offence" as in most West European countries.
119 KaiGywer: Could be. I'm not sure as it wasn't a huge problem like it is here.
120 ME AVN FAN: you see, it in Switzerland IS a huge problem, as Switzerland has more illegal "arrivals" per-capita than most other countries, but it still is just a
121 NWA742: And what would be your point in continuously refering to the Nazis, other than trying to compare me to one, and thus, implying that I am one? Like I
122 FlyDeltaJets87: One could argue that had Falcon not brought this point up, no one would have responded to it. You or I can't prove it either way, only speculate. But
123 Scorpio: Well, I've already said twice that I'd like to end this useless discussion. Then you come back with yet again the same crap. Yup, right to the shitte
124 NWA742: It's up to you. If you'd like to end it, go ahead. I said before, I don't mind either way. Yes, the same crap that's repeatedly shot you down. If I w
125 Scorpio: Trust me - it takes more than the likes of you to ever 'shoot me down'. But hey, if the thought keeps you happy at night, more power to you!
126 FlyDeltaJets87: "In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate crime and the di
127 Scorpio: That's what the law says, not what I'm saying. The law calls them criminals in the US, I think the term doesn't fit these people. That's all I said.
128 FlyDeltaJets87: "Ignorance of the law is no excuse, and I'm quoting a New York City judge on that one"- Ron White. A) It's not your country. B) Your opinion is not t
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