Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Here's What Happens When The Minimum Wage Goes Up  
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3915 times:

Well, it was predictable, at least. Don't you love government management of the economy?

Quote:
Some Valley employers, especially those in the food industry, say payroll budgets have risen so much that they're cutting hours, instituting hiring freezes and laying off employees.

And teens are among the first workers to go.

Companies maintain the new wage was raised to $6.75 per hour from $5.15 per hour to help the breadwinners in working-poor families. Teens typically have other means of support.

Mark Messner, owner of Pepi's Pizza in south Phoenix, estimates he has employed more than 2,000 high school students since 1990. But he plans to lay off three teenage workers and decrease hours worked by others. Of his 25-person workforce, roughly 75 percent are in high school.

"I've had to go to some of my kids and say, 'Look, my payroll just increased 13 percent,' " he said. " 'Sorry, I don't have any hours for you.' "

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0210biz-teenwork0210.html

159 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDC10extender From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 617 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3895 times:

I take it you are against minimum wage increases. I think that it is good that minimum wage is rising but $1.50 a hour is a little steep. It should be more gradual.


Did you ever read on your birth certificate that life is fair? Thats cause its not there.
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3884 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Thread starter):
Mark Messner, owner of Pepi's Pizza in south Phoenix

Perhaps a better example than a pizza parlor could be used. A friend used to manage a non-chain neighborhood pizza parlor in L.A. that did at least half of its business with deliveries. He claimed that their cost of a $15 pizza was around $3 depending upon toppings. The owner took 5 figures out of the place each week. A 13% increase in the payroll, when the bulk of the employment is centered mainly around the dinner hour, isn't in dollar terms all that much of a hit to the bottom line.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10992 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3881 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Thread starter):
Don't you love government management of the economy?

I like government management of the economy a LOT more than I like corporate management of the economy.

For every little pizza shop that now can't find a way to pay a teenager, there are 50 corporations that would send that job overseas if they can find a way.



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineCanadianNorth From Canada, joined Aug 2002, 3387 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3875 times:

Minimum wage in the Yukon was raised from $7.20/hour to $8.25/hour not that long ago, and theres talk of raising it again. It is currently the second highest in Canada (Nunavut I believe has $8.50). In winter you have to do some looking to find a job, but in summer here you can take a walk through town and see a help wanted sign in pretty much every second window. All depends where you live I guess...


CanadianNorth



What could possibly go wrong?
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3876 times:

Quoting DC10extender (Reply 1):
I take it you are against minimum wage increases. I think that it is good that minimum wage is rising but $1.50 a hour is a little steep. It should be more gradual.

I am for letting the market decide what labor is worth. Not the government by edict.


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3863 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
I like government management of the economy a LOT more than I like corporate management of the economy.

For every little pizza shop that now can't find a way to pay a teenager, there are 50 corporations that would send that job overseas if they can find a way.

Really nice rhetoric, but how is it going to help the people who lose their jobs because an employer can't raise his prices fast enough to cover the labor costs that have risen not because the market pushes them there, but because the government wants them to?


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10992 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3862 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 5):
I am for letting the market decide what labor is worth. Not the government by edict

This is *very* shortsighted. Child labor, 75 hour work weeks (for non-lawyers), 10 days vacation (the federal holidays)...

Remember, there was once a time in American history where the market *did* decide. It wasn't good. That's why we have controls now.



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3854 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Thread starter):
And teens are among the first workers to go.

Better than a man with a family. Teens should be in school learning so that they don't have to make minimum wage some day. So if some teens don't have jobs so a that a person with a couple kids can work and make a little bit more, then so be it.

Either way it affects the economy bad and good.

Bad: Yes some companies cannot afford to pay workers the higher amount and therefore have to lay off.

Good: The companies that can afford to pay more, which means that the worker takes home more money and can afford to spend it therefore giving the economy a boost.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3836 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 5):
I am for letting the market decide what labor is worth.

My first job paid $2.80 per hour when the minimum wage was $2.30 per hour back in 1976. Everyone was happy to get that extra 50¢ per hour, and those who weren't up to snuff got the boot rather quickly. But there are a lot of jobs where they merely need a body, the state-mandated gas jockeys in Oregon come to mind, and there needs to be some sort of minimum. Oregon has its own minimum wage law, that was at least a couple of bux higher than the former federal rate.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3829 times:

I think it is about time that the raise happened:

The annual inflation rate is approximately 3%. $5.15/hr is 1997 dollars, NOT 2007 dollars. After 10 years at $5.15/hour, the wage should be 30% higher to compensate for this. Therefore, .30 x $5.15 = $1.55; $5.15 + $1.55 = $6.70. Minimum wage should be $6.70/hour.

I do agree though that the raise should be gradually enacted, to prevent "shock," but I am not against the raise itself.


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10992 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3812 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 6):
Really nice rhetoric, but how is it going to help the people who lose their jobs because an employer can't raise his prices fast enough to cover the labor costs that have risen not because the market pushes them there, but because the government wants them to?

Well, that's a run-on if ever there was... I think you're saying we should be upset that some kids lost their jobs because of the hike, and we should be upset that it was because of government action as opposed to market action. As a Republican, why do you make this distinction? Would you be upset if the kid lost his job because a big corporation (that didn't hire the kid) knocked off the little shop?



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3802 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 5):
I am for letting the market decide what labor is worth.

So you'll have the super-rich and ultra-poor. How's that good for the country?

Mark


User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3786 times:

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 12):
So you'll have the super-rich and ultra-poor. How's that good for the country?

Just good for the New World Order


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8875 posts, RR: 40
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3768 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
I like government management of the economy a LOT more than I like corporate management of the economy.



Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
For every little pizza shop that now can't find a way to pay a teenager, there are 50 corporations that would send that job overseas if they can find a way.

So first you say that a market economy isn't good, then you complain of the side-effects of a government-controlled economy? Or did I miss something?

[Edited 2007-02-12 03:07:37]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3751 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 13):
Just good for the New World Order

That's what I've thought for years.



Mark  Smile


User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4530 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3749 times:

The minimum wage, unlike many other wages, HAS NOT increased at all to keep up with inflation. The minimum wage was $5.15 10 years ago, and should be raised on par with inflation. We are seeing a problem of neglect now: the wage has to now step up less gradually, causing a more painful transition. Were the wage indexed yearly with inflation, this would not be a problem.

Blame the lawmakers who refused to raise it for 10 years (even though they raise their own salaries yearly).


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10992 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3750 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 14):
So first you say that a market economy isn't good, then you complain of the side-effects of a government-controlled economy? Or did I miss something?

No, I complained about market economy twice.



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8875 posts, RR: 40
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3739 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 17):
No, I complained about market economy twice.

Explain, please.

I see you complaining that companies would outsource many jobs overseas, but you support legislature that basically incentives them to do so?



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10992 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3738 times:

Quoting Cba (Reply 16):
Blame the lawmakers who refused to raise it for 10 years (even though they raise their own salaries yearly).

Actually, a raise in the minimum wage when we were in a recession would not have been smart at all. (No, I'm not praising Republicans. A broken clock is still correct twice a day.)

Also, there haven't been many pay raises for congresspeople in the last decade.



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3726 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 7):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 5):I am for letting the market decide what labor is worth. Not the government by edict
This is *very* shortsighted. Child labor, 75 hour work weeks (for non-lawyers), 10 days vacation (the federal holidays)...

Remember, there was once a time in American history where the market *did* decide. It wasn't good. That's why we have controls now.

I'm not suggesting that all controls be cast aside. But when the minimum wage is arbitrarily raised in one step by 31%, that is a rise that most small businesses can't absorb, and as a result, people lose their jobs.

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
Well, that's a run-on if ever there was...

Gee, I didn't realize that we're being judged on our grammar. Didn't realize you were so tight assed about such trivialities. After all, it's just the internet.

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
I think you're saying we should be upset that some kids lost their jobs because of the hike, and we should be upset that it was because of government action as opposed to market action.

The age of the people who have lost their jobs is not my concern. But you are right - I am concerned that the government has improperly meddled in something best left to the market.

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
As a Republican, why do you make this distinction? Would you be upset if the kid lost his job because a big corporation (that didn't hire the kid) knocked off the little shop?

Since I'm not a republican, I'm not sure I know how to answer this question. What's interesting is why so many people here like to label others instead of staying on point.

As an independent, here's my answer. If the small pizza joint closes because Pizza Hut moved in and forced him out of business, I'd say too bad, but that's life. But I'll bet that the kid who worked for the Mom and Pop store can get a job at Pizza Hut.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 12):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 5):I am for letting the market decide what labor is worth.
So you'll have the super-rich and ultra-poor. How's that good for the country?

ÊÊ You really believe raising the minimum wage is going to address the problem of income disparity?

[Edited 2007-02-12 03:30:50]

User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10992 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3729 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 18):
but you support legislature that basically incentives them to do so?

Raising the minimum wage doesn't give an incentive to outsource. The incentive to outsource is present regardless of what the government requires Americans to be paid.

I'm not saying I support the increase, but the complaints here don't do it for me.



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineIlikeyyc From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1373 posts, RR: 21
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3704 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Thread starter):
Well, it was predictable, at least. Don't you love government management of the economy?

Well, an estimated 1.6 percent of the people in the nationwide workforce earned wages at or below $5.15 per hour before it was increased. I doubt that the negative effects of this increase will hurt the economy at all.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2004.htm



Fighting Absurdity with Absurdity!
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3684 times:

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 15):
That's what I've thought for years.

Of course "Novus Ordo Secolum" on the dollar is Latin for New World Order


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10992 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3685 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 20):
I'm not suggesting that all controls be cast aside. But when the minimum wage is arbitrarily raised in one step by 31%, that is a rise that most small businesses can't absorb, and as a result, people lose their jobs.

People should have seen it coming. It's been talked about for years.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 20):
Gee, I didn't realize that we're being judged on our grammar.

Well, you gave me a kitchen sink argument - throw everything into one sentence.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 20):
I'm not a republican

Mea culpa.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 20):
If the small pizza joint closes because Pizza Hut moved in and forced him out of business, I'd say too bad, but that's life.

So, you're not actually concerned with the kid. OK. But why base your argument on it then? Why don't you simply say "I don't like raising the minimum wage because I like letting the market control" and leaving it at that?

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 20):
You really believe raising the minimum wage is going to address the problem of income disparity?

That's not what he said. He's opposed to letting the market decide, as you suggested. And, I agree - letting the market decide will slowly erode the middle class and take us back towards the fiefdom era.



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
25 PPVRA : Raises costs, which is the reason for outsourcing. If there are direct incentives is another matter. Those would likely be damaging, and at the very
26 Doug_Or : I support the increase, but common man. Of course an increase in the minimum wage will increase the incentive to outsource. Increasing the minimum wa
27 Falcon84 : We already have that. The rich are getting huge tax breaks-during a war, no less-while the rest of us are given tougher regulations to pay off debt,
28 NASCARAirforce : Most minimum wage jobs are in the service sector. You can't outsource a McDonalds job to India. I don't think anyone would work a manufacturing job f
29 D L X : No no no! You've got it backwards. This isn't a chicken and egg situation: outsourcing happened long before the minimum wage increase. LONG before. I
30 Doug_Or : Well you actauly can outsource drive through ordering overseas (can't find a link, but it has been done). The fact that most minimum wage jobs can't
31 Post contains images Halls120 : You may be correct. But if so few people earn the minimum wage, why does the government feel the need to raise it by 31%? My guess is that they are d
32 NASCARAirforce : I believe it, but it would go over about as well as a fart in church. It is hard enough to understand the drive thru speakers as it is let alone some
33 AndesSMF : Just to check, does ANYONE here know someone who works for minimum wage only? After all, there are plenty of jobs (restaurants, casinos, etc.) where y
34 Falcon84 : If you made just over 6 figures, you are definitely not in the category of "rich", nor are you getting the windfall of the breaks those who really ar
35 Post contains links Halls120 : Ah yes, the evil rich are sucking the poor and middle class dry. Good tale, but it isn't true. You can find the table at http://www.taxfoundation.org
36 Falcon84 : Actually, it is the truth. Since this president took office, the gap between rich and poor is just skyrocketing. It's absolutely the truth. Try two s
37 AeroWesty : Say Mr. Independent Pizza guy employs 10 people during the dinner rush, lasting perhaps 4 hours. That's $60 extra per day, or the price of about 4 pi
38 AsstChiefMark : Did business people think the minimum wage was going to stay where it was? It was ripe to be raised dramatically to make up for years of inaction. A
39 Post contains images D L X : No, that's not what I said. He should have foreseen that the rate was going to rise and prepared financially for it. OR, he could take less home hims
40 Post contains images Ilikeyyc : Just because so few people earn the minimum wage doesn't mean that the law makers can't take a little time to help a few of the people who voted for
41 NASCARAirforce : Do you have a source for that? Don't get me wrong, I agree with you... but if someone who names himself after a Van Halen album comes to this thread
42 Post contains images D L X : EXCELLENT post.
43 Halls120 : Did you even look at the chart I provided a link to? And as far as the gap between the rich and poor increasing, yes, it has. But that gap didn't sta
44 Post contains links Cairo : Even that great champion of the poor, the voice of hourly wage earners, George W. Bush complained of wage inequity in America, When the average CEO m
45 Halls120 : May I first state that I absolutely HATE this new blue screen posting format? Back to Mr. Independent Pizza man. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't read
46 Halls120 : For the record, I did NOT start this thread as a discussion of how raising the minimum wage would or would not address income disparity in America. O
47 AeroWesty : The article you linked didn't give out his financials. As I stated in my first post, I was using figures given to me by a friend who used to manage a
48 Cactus739 : 2000 employees in 16 years? that's 125 employees per year. Just over 10 employees per month he has to hire. Where does he find the time to hire and t
49 Halls120 : I AGREE that sometimes the government sometimes has to step in to help. But increasing the MW by 31% in one step wasn't the correct step.
50 D L X : Dodged! But you did start a thread and complain about a situation to which you proposed an alternative. That alternative (market) is being attacked a
51 AeroWesty : There are a lot of ways a company can adapt, and even gain more business in the process. Instead of couponing the neighborhood with $5 off coupons, a
52 Post contains links Falcon84 : CLAIM? Jesus, but what are you smoking? http://www.ctj.org/html/gwb0602.htm A HALF TRILLION DOLLARS! That's billions, halls. And yet you have the ner
53 Post contains images Halls120 : I've provided a substantive answer on this point. At least twice. I've dodged nothing. You're just uncomfortable because I pointed out that what you
54 AsstChiefMark : Sell the Mercedes. Downgrade to a 20,000 sq ft house. Do your own landscaping & gardening. Put off buying a plasma screen for each of the five bathro
55 Falcon84 : Well, it's obvious you don't have a freaking clue as to how most people who are really in the middle class live. You've been in government service to
56 AsstChiefMark : I'm talking about what the five-figure-a-week owner can do to retain his employees and improve their lives by paying them appropriate wages. Mark
57 MD-90 : Hmmm....the Soviet Union had a large number of ambitious and productive five year plans. As for me, I'll take private property rights and freedom, th
58 Halls120 : Your cite was current as of 2002. My cite was current as of 2004, and shows that " all income groups have witnessed their effective federal income ta
59 Post contains images Halls120 : Listen, it's been fun guys, but I've got to call it a night. Since my tomorrow is probablty going to suck big time, I might not be able to respond in
60 D L X : Those all sound GREAT! What do you think, Halls? Please point me to where you have addressed the person at the top taking less home to pay the people
61 D L X : No need for hyperbole. I'm certainly not suggesting communism.
62 Cba : Correct. This massive increase is a bit of a bull in a china shop approach. However, this move was made to compensate for the lack of increase in the
63 D L X : I can't agree to that. The minimum wage affects inflation, and a rise in the minimum wage will lead to increased inflation. If you in turn raised the
64 Padraighaz : Except that when labor makes any progress, the capitalists scream it has to stop because it drives up inflation. (It's amazing though how soaring exe
65 Graphic : Actually, that's now 50 corporations with more incentive to send the job overseas.
66 D L X : Hardly. Those corporations were looking and implementing long before this increase.
67 Padraighaz : Ah, but now there will be a surge of extra cash from those at minimum wage who will find themselves awash in extra cash and this will drive a surge o
68 Padraighaz : Pizza delivery from India within 30mins or free. That will be something to see...
69 Graphic : And now they have a reason to do it.
70 D L X : Is that a serious comment? There's no "NOW" about it. You're kidding yourself if you think the rising minimum wage is what will start a company think
71 NASCARAirforce : Apu would sell it in the Quickie Mart
72 EA CO AS : So you're in favor of communism, then? I mean, if you love government-managed economies communism is your utopia. Or am I wrong? I find it a bit alar
73 Itsjustme : OK, admittedly math was never my strong suit in school. Also, I'm not an economist. But, all I've been hearing for several months now, if not longer i
74 Post contains images Halls120 : which is, of course, the government forcing mandatory redistribution of income. If Mr. Pizza Shop owner is a greedy SOB, perhaps he should take home
75 Post contains links and images KaiGywer : Your line of thought is correct, but as it would be 3% of the previous year, you can't simply take 3% x 10 = 30%. What you need to do is take $5.15 x
76 Halls120 : Only on a PC. For those on Macs, whether using Safari or Firefox, the one click solution doesn't cut it. And no one - even on the other thread, from
77 PanAmOldDC8 : Westy my first job paid me $60.00 per month and that was working 60 hours per week, mind you that was in 1963. It is funny I could go out every night
78 D L X : This should help: But the same could be said if the price of raw materials rose, or the price of gas, or if the locals raised the tolls on a toll roa
79 Halls120 : I agree. What I don't agree with is the idea that the default position ought to be "owner should take a pay cut." That's just government-mandated inc
80 D L X : Yes. And that isn't necessarily a bad idea.
81 Post contains images KaiGywer : Get a PC Klaus take note. There is indeed something you cannot do on a Mac
82 Post contains images Halls120 : We'll have to disagree on this point. I think that is plainly awful idea. hell will freeze over before I go back to a PC.
83 Pope : Just for the record, could you tell us please who is really rich? In your opinion, does earning $200,000 per year make one rich? Is the line $300,000
84 Post contains images N231YE : Ahhh..forgot about the exponential fun stuff. Thanks for the clarification, Professor KaiGywer
85 KaiGywer : Interesting thing is that assuming a constant 3% inflation every year since then (31 years), the minimum wage today should be $2.30 x 1.03^31 = $5.75
86 Padraighaz : What I'm alluding to is how people like the concept of a free-market because it is superficially easy to understand, seems to justify non-government
87 Falcon84 : Multi-millionaires, Pope. Is that clear enough. If you have between a half million and a million $$, you're very well off, but I don't consider that
88 DrDeke : That doesn't make any sense. I think that paying someone "well" means that they are paid more than minimum wage. But if that is the case and the empl
89 AndesSMF : The problem, you see, is that multi-millionaires are usually not the ones who pay income tax, as their revenues do not fall under the category of inc
90 Post contains images AeroWesty : Perhaps his flying lesson was cancelled that day. What has been left out of this equation is how much have general salaries increased since the last
91 AndesSMF : Do we have percentages of people who actually live with minimum wage?
92 Pope : Excuse me but your answer is still not clear. Are you talking about a multimillion dollar income or a multimillion dollar net worth?
93 AeroWesty : Check Reply #22 by Ilikeyyc
94 PPVRA : The gap between the rich and the poor. . . Why should the guy flipping burgers at McDonalds for most of his life have a higher percentage of the wealt
95 AirCop : Thanks I didn't know that..meanwhile back on topic..Halls its to bad the paper didn't use another establishment, this pizza place has had its share o
96 AeroWesty : Some time ago I read a theory on economics that proclaimed that a "third class" is an inevitable and useful subset of the population to have. If thos
97 AndesSMF : As an aside to that, here at my work I know of two people personally who decided to earn less money than before to make their life less complicated.
98 Graphic : No, its not the reddest of herrings. The government, through mandatory wage increases, has just screwed with a company's bottom line. If the company
99 AeroWesty : And if you didn't pay a viable wage, people couldn't even afford to travel to your house to do the cleaning, so it'd be left to you, lowering your in
100 PPVRA : I've been around them all my life. This "gap" theory feeds the wealth re-distribution theory. Now you must know how fair that latter theory is. . . T
101 AeroWesty : The problem was that at its former rate, the minimum wage was not a decent living.
102 PPVRA : You're way off, D L X. Outsourcing is due to high cost of doing business in a certain country. Whether due to wages, taxes, logistics cost, environme
103 PPVRA : I was talking about a socialist scenario. If you are a socialist, then fine. That's your view. I don't believe socialism is fair nor does it bring na
104 AirCop : Read the same/similar theory, also a certain percentage will always be unable to be employed (not including disabled) due to whatever reason. If you
105 AeroWesty : No, I'm not a socialist, I'm a social liberal and fiscal conservative. I believe that keeping people out of the level of servitude satisfies both goa
106 Padraighaz : This is only true as long as there is no penalty for using cheap foreign labor to comptete with american labor. If you wanted a fair free market, you
107 AndesSMF : Already had that problem once. But the funny thing is that here, the minimum that would be paid for a house cleaner is $10/hr.
108 Padraighaz : This seems like a pretty broad statement to make. There are various degrees of socialism. Some have been very repulsive, others are much more attract
109 Halls120 : Sure it does. When I said she paid them "well," it was more than the minimum wage, but not much more. But had the government raised the MW by 31% whe
110 D L X : No, it IS the reddest of herrings. Have you ever run a business? There are literally thousands of variables that affect the bottom line. However, you
111 PPVRA : I never said that! And what is this supposed to mean then. . . Exactly, and why does it happen? Because Chinese wages are lower. Why does it happen m
112 Post contains images PPVRA : Putting barriers up isolates your economy. Many negative side-effects from that. To be "fair" you have to include everyone - world wide. That's globa
113 Post contains images Copaair737 : The Zionist/Masonic/NWO conspiracy is behind all of this minimum wage increase...and I have proof!!! Put an upside down triangle on the pyramid...and
114 D L X : Never said you did. *I* said it, then I explained why it was relevant: Outsourcing is just another standard form of cost cutting. Its plain meaning i
115 Padraighaz : I agree. Well this might be a matter of opinion. I don't see it as being fair to have trinkets produced by dormitoried chinese workers simply dumped
116 Padraighaz : Yes but because of increasing wealth polarization, her clients could easily absorb any cost passed onto them, and to the degree they couldn't, its a
117 Pope : In a capitalistic, consumer based economy, all of us have the ability to promote our social agenda every day by how we spend our money. I completely
118 Post contains images Halls120 : My aunt owned a motel. A far cry from a Four Seasons. Her "targeting" consisted of ads in the Best Western travel guide. The flaw in your argument is
119 Padraighaz : Yes, but I don't see Best Western going out of business. I think there's a certain amount of crying 'the sky is falling' going on here. And one flaw
120 Halls120 : Shows how much you don;t know about what you are talking about. Best Western motels and hotels are generally not owned by Best Western - BW is primar
121 PPVRA : I've seen videos of them - not nice. If they are voluntarily living there, I wouldn't mind it. But many times (at least on the video I saw), they "te
122 AndesSMF : For all of those who complain about globalization now, might well remember or read how the addition of import tariffs by the US during the Great Depre
123 Post contains images FlyDeltaJets87 : $420 a week = $21, 840 a year, to put in in perspective. I think I would notice a reduction of $21,840 a year. And while the cost to directly produce
124 D L X : Okay, now do the rest of the math. $21,840 doesn't mean anything without context. Let's give you some: at $10 a pizza, that's 6 pizzas a day. Your wh
125 Padraighaz : In some ways yes, but I was hoping the context would make it clear. I am emphasizing the fairness aspect; specifically, it it NOT fair to allow cheap
126 AeroWesty : Your argument breaks down because you're comparing profit to revenue. I don't recall what the revenue of the enterprise was, only what was stated tha
127 AndesSMF : Just as aside, this foreign labor looks to be abused from our point of view. But to these 'abused' workers these foreign companies are paying 2X the
128 Padraighaz : I agree. However, if we want globalization to be an instrument of aid to foreign countries at the expense of american jobs, then let's state that's w
129 PPVRA : Increasing the minimum wage means business just got more costly. Florida oranges just got even more expensive compared to Brazilian oranges. Florida
130 AeroWesty : When was the last time you bought orange juice in the U.S.? Most of the concentrate I've bought in the past few years is already labeled as from Braz
131 PPVRA : Oh please. How oranges are traded is completely beside the point. You didn't debunk anything, substitute something in for oranges if you'd like. That
132 AeroWesty : What, I should have started talking about ice cream, or the price of coal in Newcastle? You're losing credibiity on this issue now at an ever-increas
133 AndesSMF : But are we only talking about outsourcing or also increased business costs? Increased costs are almost always passed on the consumer, as well, someti
134 PPVRA : What is your point? My example showed how wages costs trickle down and affect the industry. They may not affect orange prices on the market but they
135 AeroWesty : Ask PPVRA to answer this. I have neither formed an opinion on the matter, nor know what he's going on about.
136 AeroWesty : I haven't the first clue what your question meant. You gave an example of the Florida orange industry going into bankruptcy because of the minimum wa
137 PPVRA : Agreed. But raise the MW to $10/hr and there won't be a single answering service left in the country. They just won't be able to compete with compani
138 AeroWesty : Okay, this has now officially jumped the shark. No doctor's office I know of would ever rely upon an international connection for an answering servic
139 PPVRA : That is one case. Many small businesses use answering services. It was hypothetical. Was trying to blow up the scenario to try and make it easier to
140 AeroWesty : In the U.S.? The last time I remember a real answering service picking up the phone for a small business, other than a doctor's office, was perhaps 2
141 PPVRA : Yes, in the U.S. I have three friends that work at an answering service (which is a small business itself to begin with - maybe no more than 5 poeple
142 Post contains images AeroWesty : And you honestly want us to believe that these jobs are at risk to be outsourced to India? Okay, I'm done with this thread now.
143 PPVRA : And you honestly believed I was talking about the gardner's job? I think people see what went on here. I'm done with you.
144 AeroWesty : Dude, once, again, stay on track. You and I weren't talking about the gardner's job, you and I were talking about the gardener's answering service. T
145 PPVRA : So tell me then, what is so impossible about this answering service being moved to India? The person who owns this answering service is elderly, abou
146 AeroWesty : Probability of the clientele you listed if the business moved to India: Doctors - NOPE Homes for the elderly - NOPE Secret Service - NOPE A/C mx - pe
147 Post contains links PPVRA : That's subjective. And a small sample of their clientele. I've supplies different cases trying to illustrate my point to D L X. If you seriously need
148 AeroWesty : Dude, read before you post. Okay? What I said before was: That gave the window for that yes, outsourcing will continue. I have no doubt of that. You
149 PPVRA : I already answered that part. Twice. I'm tired of repeating myself. I'm done for good now.
150 D L X : That's not what I said. I said that outsourcing is already occuring, and it was occurring before the increase. Therefore, the increase is not respons
151 PPVRA : Yes you did: Key words: "market share" and "subsidies"[Edited 2007-02-14 06:02:04]
152 Mika : Personally i prefer to have a job that pays well, even if it means that i will have to look harder to find a job at all. I make roughly $18/hr on a ve
153 WSOY : Even the minimum wage in the U.S. is more than the wages in most 3rd world countries. That's the real reason why the industrial jobs are disappearing
154 Galapagapop : Dunno why the governement needed to get involved, most states were above minimum wage, and many still are, but I don't understand why a general wage i
155 AirCop : In this debate, we forgot one thing. The raise in the minimun wage was not an edict from the government but rather it was raised by the voters of Ariz
156 Halls120 : The government got involved - specifically, the Congress - because our elected "leaders" have to show that they are "doing something" in order to get
157 WSOY : Perhaps they should not be elected at all?
158 FlyDeltaJets87 : Maybe I missed it in the article, but I couldn't find where it said what this guy's weekly revenue and income is. See above comment. Once we know, I'
159 Galapagapop : Kinda hard to not elect them when they basically advertise everything as simply Free* while campaigning Cheers! *Matters are not really free but due
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Traffic Ticket: What Happens If The Info Is Wrong? posted Sat Sep 4 2004 19:00:09 by MNeo
Look What Happens When We Let Fear Control Us posted Wed Jul 14 2004 17:23:28 by Garnetpalmetto
What Happens When Israel Pulls Out Of Gaza? posted Tue Apr 13 2004 06:40:08 by Rjpieces
This Is What Happens When.... posted Sun Dec 28 2003 16:36:18 by Jkw777
Look What Happens When You Play Trumpet! posted Sun Oct 6 2002 21:44:42 by SSTjumbo
What To Do When The Kids Annoy You posted Sun Feb 5 2006 12:33:54 by Cosec59
Where Were You When The Challenger Blew Up? posted Mon May 9 2005 02:13:43 by Airlinelover
What If You're Still On Line When The Polls Close? posted Tue Nov 2 2004 21:34:09 by Csavel
The Sopranos, Season 5... What Happens Next?! posted Sat Dec 20 2003 21:57:20 by Jkw777
What Is With The Letter Bombs In The UK posted Tue Feb 6 2007 17:35:26 by PanAmOldDC8