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Time For A New "Super Power"?  
User currently offline747438 From UK - England, joined Jan 2007, 838 posts, RR: 5
Posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2848 times:

Do we need a new strong force in world politics?
At this time we have the US administration running rough shod over the rest of the world, trying to impose their values on the rest of us.
Surely it's time for a balancing power to keep their attitude in check.

70 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineThom@s From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 11955 posts, RR: 46
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2850 times:

Quoting 747438 (Thread starter):
Time For A New "Super Power"?

Where do we sign up?

Signed
France



"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2846 times:

Quoting 747438 (Thread starter):
Do we need a new strong force in world politics?
At this time we have the US administration running rough shod over the rest of the world, trying to impose their values on the rest of us.
Surely it's time for a balancing power to keep their attitude in check.

Don your Kevlar and gird your loins. It's about to get nasty in here...


User currently offlineYellowstone From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3071 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2830 times:

I think it is nearly certain that within the next 50 years there will be another superpower or two on the map. China is the obvious one. Maybe the EU if they can get their stuff together.

"The United States is the world's only remaining superpower, unless you count the Chinese, but at this point, no one can count the Chinese." - "America: The Book" by Jon Stewart et al.



Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2830 times:

Quoting 747438 (Thread starter):
At this time we have the US administration running rough shod over the rest of the world, trying to impose their values on the rest of us.

I don't agree with this contention at all. If anything, the U.S. is very solicitous of foreign opinion.

However, what new superpower would you like to assume the stage? The EU, perhaps.


User currently offlineWellHung From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2819 times:

Agreed. We would all be better off if Russia, China or North Korea were the dominant power.  sarcastic 

User currently offline747438 From UK - England, joined Jan 2007, 838 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2811 times:

Quoting WellHung (Reply 5):
We would all be better off if Russia, China or North Korea were the dominant power.

The whole point is , that we don't need a dominant power. We need a balance and at the moment, due to the demise of the Soviet Union and the impotency of the EU, there is no balance of power.


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8766 posts, RR: 42
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2798 times:

As soon as the current administration is out, we can start hoping for an American foreign policy that actually deserves the name. The amazing thing with the country is that yes, it does realise its politicians' mistakes and the people votes for a change. It just takes longer than it should sometimes.

Quoting 747438 (Thread starter):
trying to impose their values on the rest of us.

In all honesty, I'd rather have some American values imposed on me than those of e.g. the Sharia.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2782 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 4):
I don't agree with this contention at all. If anything, the U.S. is very solicitous of foreign opinion.

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

You're really getting ridiculous. You've produced better flame-bait in your heyday, my friend...!  mischievous 


There is no lack of a "super power", there is a decided lack of a "super intelligence"!

Like it or not, the only halfway functioning way into the future is increased cooperation and an increased observance of internationally accepted rules and fundamental values, enforced if necessary by the global community.

Singular power centers invite abuse of power and corruption more than anything else.

The USA have seen their own share of these kinds of consequences (most notably in the past six years, but previously as well), even though they have performed better than most of their predecessors all in all.

Being an absolute ruler usually twists and damages one's character, and it's exactly the same for entire nations as for individuals.

Democracy may be messy and the worst form of government imaginable, but unfortunately all others are even worse...!


User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2748 times:

I'm quite happy with the current superpower. Last time we had a balance of 2 superpowers I couldn't say what I want, I could not believe what I want .... to make it short I wasn't free at all.
Sure the current government of the last superpower leaves a lot to be desired, but fortunately they are a democracy so the government will change.

Quoting 747438 (Reply 6):
The whole point is , that we don't need a dominant power. We need a balance and at the moment, due to the demise of the Soviet Union and the impotency of the EU, there is no balance of power.

As we have seen a balance doesn't protect the world from abuse of power at all. It's just that they tend to agree to divide the world into fields of interest in which they can act as the want. Therefore a balance is futile.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 7):
In all honesty, I'd rather have some American values imposed on me than those of e.g. the Sharia.

Spot on!

Quoting Klaus (Reply 8):

Like it or not, the only halfway functioning way into the future is increased cooperation and an increased observance of internationally accepted rules and fundamental values, enforced if necessary by the global community.

I don't see it happening, but it would be the best solution.

pelican


User currently offline747438 From UK - England, joined Jan 2007, 838 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2743 times:

Quoting Pelican (Reply 9):
.... to make it short I wasn't free at all.

You're free now?
I don't think so


User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2731 times:

Quoting 747438 (Reply 10):
You're free now?

Sure I'm. I can say what I want without fearing prison, I can believe in what I want without risking prison, I can travel around, I can work in the job I want. That's freedom I would not have if we still had the balance of superpowers.

pelican


User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2729 times:

Quoting 747438 (Reply 10):
You're free now?
I don't think so

Define freedom, then. Can you...

1. Vote?
2. Worship whatever god you please?
3. Say what you want, when you want, where you want?
4. Choose a school?
5. Choose a hospital?
6. Have a say in local and regional laws and issues?
7. Travel around the world?
8. Work in whatever job you desire?


User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2703 times:

The power has already shifted to Asia. China and India are the superpowers of the very near future. America and Europe can try to fight it if they want, but it will just hasten the slide. European countries have become accustomed to not possessing "superpower" status over the last 50 years. It will be a much harder pill for Americans to swallow because they won't have 50 years to get used to it.

I'm not sure this will be an improvement. US hegemony has become very tiresome since GWB was anointed, but up until then America was always my first choice for top dog. Maybe they can recover it and regain the moral high ground at least. I hope so. But the battle for global supremacy has already been lost to Asia, and that will be much clearer a decade from now.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlineLYRFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2693 times:

Quoting WellHung (Reply 5):
Agreed. We would all be better off if Russia, China or North Korea were the dominant power.

What's wrong with Russia and China now?? They are both making progress.. It's difficult to predict what it would be like if China becomes a superpower as well, which they probably will within 20 years I think

Sorry couldn't resist:


don't take it seriously, it's kind of a funny video :P

[Edited 2007-02-13 23:42:06]

User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2675 times:

Quoting LYRFlyer (Reply 14):
What's wrong with Russia and China now?? They are both making progress..

The problem is they still have a long way to go.

Quoting LYRFlyer (Reply 14):

Sorry couldn't resist:

Ah I remember that song played at studenterhuset... Big grin

pelican


User currently offlineMiamiair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2669 times:

Quoting 747438 (Thread starter):
At this time we have the US administration running rough shod over the rest of the world, trying to impose their values on the rest of us.

The US is "imposing" our values over the rest of the world? I think not. Why do we respect the right to religion when your country does not. We do not impose our laws on no one but our own citizens. We do not burn embassies when our leaders are burned in effigies. What a load of feces.


User currently offlineCroCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2660 times:

Quoting 747438 (Thread starter):
Do we need a new strong force in world politics?
At this time we have the US administration running rough shod over the rest of the world, trying to impose their values on the rest of us.
Surely it's time for a balancing power to keep their attitude in check.

What a joke, what are you implying? Their will NEVER be a super power from the middle East, they cant keep their region in check as it is.
The Chinese will be a dominant player, but the US will be strong for many years.
I know I harp on this topic a bit much, but liberals are ruining the US. People like Pelosi, the Clinton's, Kerry, Al Gore and his global warming  Yeah sure This country needs to silence these turds and get on with life. When does freedom of speech stop being freedom of speech? it doesn't. They can undermine anything, these burn outs dont understand, and it becomes an uphill battle the rest of the way.
Biblically the US wont stay a super power, or we will fight within so bad we wont survive, sound familiar?

Quoting WellHung (Reply 5):
Agreed. We would all be better off if Russia, China or North Korea were the dominant power.

That was funny.


User currently offlineLYRFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2652 times:

Quoting Pelican (Reply 15):
The problem is they still have a long way to go.

True.. But it's going in the right direction I think..

Quoting Pelican (Reply 15):
Ah I remember that song played at studenterhuset..

Yeah I remember it from a roadtrip I went on last year with some friends. The lyric to that song is just so awesome!

Rammstein rules!! :P

[Edited 2007-02-14 00:16:44]

User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8766 posts, RR: 42
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2585 times:

Quoting CroCop (Reply 17):
This country needs to silence these turds and get on with life.

Gorgeous display of the values I would not like imposed on me!  Silly



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineConnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2577 times:

Quoting Arrow (Reply 13):
The power has already shifted to Asia. China and India are the superpowers of the very near future. America and Europe can try to fight it if they want, but it will just hasten the slide. European countries have become accustomed to not possessing "superpower" status over the last 50 years. It will be a much harder pill for Americans to swallow because they won't have 50 years to get used to it.

Indeed. The adjustment might happen fairly abruptly due to America's increasingly precarious fiscal position
and leverage by Asian nations over the US in that area.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2578 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 19):
Gorgeous display of the values I would not like imposed on me!

I think the USA need to have american values (re-)imposed on themselves first of all right now...


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2568 times:

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 20):
Indeed. The adjustment might happen fairly abruptly due to America's increasingly precarious fiscal position and leverage by Asian nations over the US in that area.

In the eighties many people thought that Japan would rule the world within a few years... turned out to be a tiny little bit exaggerated...


There is no denying of the progress in Asia, but they're currently trying to outrun a bunch of pretty severe problems they still have around, so it is quite likely that their current streak of good luck will be finite as well, with setbacks and lots of hard work until they stabilize their so far often fragile and superficial successes...

We tend to overestimate the depth of what's behind the glitzy facades; Sustained development is quite a bit harder to achieve than a roaring boom chased by subsequent collapse...


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8766 posts, RR: 42
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2547 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 22):
Sustained development is quite a bit harder to achieve than a roaring boom chased by subsequent collapse...

You mean things like social security (pensions, healthcare etc.) and a less unequal distribution of wealth? Now, now... you're down the pinko-commie leftist path again!  Wink



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2536 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 23):
You mean things like social security (pensions, healthcare etc.) and a less unequal distribution of wealth? Now, now... you're down the pinko-commie leftist path again!

Ain't I always...?  mischievous   devil 


25 PanAmOldDC8 : Watch Russia and China guys. That's all I have to say
26 Klaus : Sure - but underestimating their difficulties would be as shortsighted as underestimating our own! Russia is more a political and potentially militar
27 Miamiair : Russia is a kleptocracy that is headed nowhere good. China might seem to be emerging as an economic powerhouse, yet is in a precarious position. China
28 PanAmOldDC8 : I agree, but I watched a very interesting program on BBC a few days ago, in which the interviewer was asking several people questions about Russia an
29 Pope : Absolutely. Who is going to step up? The EU? Mercosur? Russia? China? As soon as someone, anyone wants the job they can have it. First job, send peop
30 Post contains images DrDeke : Oh, yeah, sure. The U.S. really paid attention to foreign opinion on our warrantless invasion of Iraq... Well, we have taken over (or attempted to ta
31 Post contains images Klaus : The primitive view of what that "job" entails as implemented by the Bush administration has just proven a complete disaster and thus exposed the fund
32 Pope : Is there never a time for when force should be used? Sometimes talk can't resolve every problem. What's false? Did the EU or its member states not kn
33 Aloges : Did you forget about Afghanistan already? There isn't much disagreement on the need to use force there, is it?
34 Pope : No. But who led the way, the US or the EU? I assure you that the US would have gone in without NATO but do you think the converse is true?
35 Aloges : Is it really the point whether "the US would have done it alone"? The thing is you didn't need to since we went along without reluctance. Whether or
36 Cairo : As long as the new force values democracy, human rights & the rule of law, yes. We do not need another USSR. The EU and America share fundamental val
37 Pope : And there is the answer to the question. The EU will never lead only follow. A "superpower" can't hide behind someone else's skirt, they are the skir
38 CroCop : They need to have self restraint. They act like a truck load of monkeys and it only hurts the big picture. We will always have your tree hugger menta
39 Post contains images Aloges : "What if"s are nothing but speculation, especially in international politics. And who led the EU into Congo to protect the elections, then, if it was
40 Pope : Look, I like Europe and I recognize that Europe has been a good friend to the US (as I believe the US has been to Europe). But I think that it's not
41 CroCop : Explain to me how Bush need to have self restraint. thanks No another words, your elected officials voted for War along with the President, you elect
42 Post contains images Rammstein : You realise that this is exactly what happened in Germany from 1933 until to WWII? Aloges' trapdoor worked quite well with you...
43 Post contains images Aloges : It's been one of the longest-standing partnerships in history, too, despite all the hardships it has been put through from either side. True to an ex
44 Post contains images Aloges : What trapdoor?
45 Post contains images CroCop : Nato? the U.N.? he went AWOL? he drank? Are you kidding me? then NO ONE WOULD EVER LIVE UP TO YOUR STANDARDS! you have got to be kidding me? Man, I h
46 Post contains images Aloges : Well, as you brought it up - he didn't are to maintain friendships their either. Oh please. Millions, if not billions of people do. They don't expect
47 Post contains images Galapagapop : TO be fair, what is the depth to which those approving are looking into? Anyway why should he care what they think? Many politicains made moves very
48 Post contains images Halls120 : He can't possibly be serious, can he? I would agree that a balance is needed. The sad thing is, I'll bet he really believes it. A possible . China ha
49 MaidensGator : In 1992, almost 45 million voted for Bill Clinton, over 58 million voted against him.... Regardless of who you voted for, in the US you have the abso
50 Aloges : Mid-term? The best the US voters could do was vote the Republicans out of Congress, and enough of them did to give the Democrats a majority. Why? My
51 Halls120 : I'm not saying you should abandon your present course and re-arm to become a superpower. What I'm advocating is for Germany and Japan to be prepared
52 Pope : I think that their may be a difference in understanding here. I don't think the US as a superpower in the same way Germany and Japan were in pre-WWII
53 HAWK21M : At the Moment Only China seems to be heading towards that position.India's Economic strength is Improving too & being a Democracy can help. But If the
54 Pope : Agreed. My only questions for the forum is whether a superpower as envisioned by the original poster entails the willingness of the nation to act whe
55 PanAmOldDC8 : I agree with most of your post, except that I see China as a superpower within the next 20 years. The problem with China is the lack of land for the
56 Post contains links RJdxer : True, a lot has to do with the type of people you are dealing with. A zogby poll, admittedly a year old, showed that while historically the country w
57 Post contains images Klaus : No, it was not. There was no lack of attention, but it was clear from the outset that european nations lacked the offensive capabilities required to
58 Falcon84 : The only nation that will get to that status is China, then I think a lot of you are going to rue the day you were on their bandwagon. They're already
59 Post contains images Halls120 : My bad - of course the EU was vitally involved. But because European militaries lack intervention-capable response forces, a timely response wasn't p
61 HAWK21M : Given the Choice A Democractic USA would be preffered to a Communist China. regds MEL
62 Post contains images Klaus : Actually, the EU wasn't that much involved as far as I recollect; It was more a coordinated multi-national effort. It was one of the reasons why mili
63 MD11Engineer : Don't forget that the current crisis in Sudan is the direct result of a blockade of the UN by the veto powers China and Russia. China has strongly inv
64 HAWK21M : Its Surprising why the UN Permanent Members are still the Big 5 even after so many years.Shouldn't the UN be more Democratic considering the Current p
65 Post contains images Klaus : Yeah. Big surprise they've actually chosen to hold on to their cushy veto powers...! No, of course not - what a horrible idea!
66 DrDeke : Maybe you, people with your views, and for that matter, the President of the United States are the ones who should have exercised restraint. You know
67 Spinaltap : I think (and hope) the new superpower will be India. China is going to have some big problems to come, the gender imbalance is going to be huge for th
68 Halls120 : Yes. I was in a hurry. Never a good thing when trying to post seriously. Not saying you should strive for the US model - just a more flexible model t
69 Klaus : Sure, that is the way to go; And with all fiscal limitations and political difficulties, that's where we're heading. We're already involved in a sign
70 Post contains images HAWK21M : Would make sense when every 6th Human is an Indian yet no Permanent seat in the UN. Alternatively Eliminate the Permannant seats & Vetos. regds MEL
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