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What Is Apple Doing With It's "iWaste"?  
User currently offlineLYRFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2351 times:

Interesting articles regarding Apple's politics when it comes to preserving mother nature:

http://www.macworld.co.uk/mac/news/i...m?newsid=17220&pagtype=allchandate

"The group has been vociferous in its criticism of the company, claiming Apple still uses hazardous substances in its products — substances other companies in the technology sector are abandoning.

Chemicals such as toxic flame retardants and polyvinyl chloride are used in Apple products. When these devices reach end of life they are disassembled, usually in developing countries. This process threatens the environment and the people who scour the dumping grounds, says Greenpeace. "

http://media.www.fairfieldmirror.com...MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com

I found this website quite funny:
http://www.greenmyapple.org/

"Apple products - sleek looks, amazing design, meticulous attention to detail. So what's with the toxic chemicals inside, short life spans and allowing their products to be dumped in Asia?"

 Silly

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJamesbuk From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 3968 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2267 times:

So much for Apples being healthy for you  Wink.

Quoting LYRFlyer (Thread starter):
When these devices reach end of life they are disassembled, usually in developing countries. This process threatens the environment and the people who scour the dumping grounds, says Greenpeace. "

So if im reading that right, people in poor countries are getting hurt when they are scouring the dumps for things? I think that maybe Apple should review what there doing here before they damage their reputation.

Rgds --James--



You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
User currently offlineLYRFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2203 times:

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 1):
So if im reading that right, people in poor countries are getting hurt when they are scouring the dumps for things? I think that maybe Apple should review what there doing here before they damage their reputation.

Agreed! Are the same materials used in computers from other manufacturers?


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2141 times:

In fact things are not nearly as simple.

While Greenpeace certainly serves an important role in general, they have worked quite sloppily with their highly publicized "eco-grading" of various manufacturers.

They drew their criteria for grading the manufacturers from a very superficial examination of those manufacturer's press releases under complete negligence of what the respective manufacturers actually do (or don't) to reduce their respective ecological footprint.

I recommend a closer look into a series of articles here:

Top Secret: Greenpeace Report Misleading and Incompetent

Greenpeace Apologizes For Apple Stink

Greenpeace Lies About Apple


User currently offlineWSOY From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2119 times:

I

Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):

I recommend a closer look into a series of articles here:

Top Secret: Greenpeace Report Misleading and Incompetent

Greenpeace Apologizes For Apple Stink

Greenpeace Lies About Apple

Ok, I read most of what this person writes above. Do you really like it when he says:

"Name of the Game
Greenpeace wants your money, and it's ready to say anything that will get you to hand it over."


I gather you have more or less severed your links with Greenpeace? They blamed Apple, ok, but aren't you a bit too harsh on them now?


User currently offlineWellHung From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2099 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):
Top Secret: Greenpeace Report Misleading and Incompetent

Greenpeace Apologizes For Apple Stink

Greenpeace Lies About Apple

So is that where you get your bias from, or is it so ingrained now that you just use that site for validation?


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2091 times:

Quoting WellHung (Reply 5):
So is that where you get your bias from, or is it so ingrained now that you just use that site for validation?

Well, you could actually read the articles to check for actual arguments, but maybe that's asking too much...  Yeah sure


User currently offlineWSOY From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2075 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 6):
Well, you could actually read the articles to check for actual arguments, but maybe that's asking too much...

Klaus, this "read again, you dumkopf" argument of yours is a bit stale. Many of us know how to read and do read quickly. The person you ask us to read closer says:
"Greenpeace wants your money, and it's ready to say anything that will get you to hand it over."
You might be aware this is one of the key criticism many right-wingers throw at Greenpeace, and it's a bit odd to see you hanging out with them.
But I trust this one was a honest "accident-at-work" -- you just did not read the text thoroughly.

[Edited 2007-02-15 22:03:55]

User currently offlineWellHung From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2072 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 6):
Well, you could actually read the articles to check for actual arguments, but maybe that's asking too much... Yeah sure

Aww... Apple fanboy gets called out and doesn't like it.

I read through the blogs (not every word of them) and get the vibe of a bitter computer geek with an unjustified elitist complex. This may sound familiar to you, hence my inqiry. Perhaps if he could lay out his arguments without an obvious bias for anything and everything Apple, it could be taken more seriously. It reminds me of Fox News - the only people who watch (read) it are the brainwashed who believe every word and the folks who see it as so ridiculously biased (and this guy is their version of Hannity), it serves no purpose other than entertainment. You and the blog fit this to a T.

I'm no big fan of Greenpeace, but if you'd like to provide some actual unbiased rescources that aren't written by your clones, be my guest.

[Edited 2007-02-15 22:01:34]

User currently offlineLYRFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2036 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):
Top Secret: Greenpeace Report Misleading and Incompetent

Greenpeace Apologizes For Apple Stink

Greenpeace Lies About Apple

lol they're all 3 from the same (unknown) source.. care to find some other credible source?


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2029 times:

If neither of you have anything to say about the actual issues, there's little need to proceed any further, is there?  Yeah sure

User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2028 times:
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What I want to know, since I know that Klaus defends Apple to the death, is why aren't the NGOs and individuals bitching at Apple not picketing in the countries that allow the dumping?

These nations are responsible for protecting themselves....right? Why not spend time going after them?

Is Greenpeace et al under the impression that they can't understand the dangers? Do they think that these countries are populated by people too stupid to explain this to? Or are they just protesting where it's easiest or most glamorous?

It's one thing to protest from a rubber boat when you have a cabin on a vessel that night, or at some western site where they have dorms or hotels....its another to protest someplace where they lock you up and throw the keys away.....

chickens....



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineLYRFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2024 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 10):
If neither of you have anything to say about the actual issues, there's little need to proceed any further, is there?

We would have something to say if you posted links to various sources Otherwise it is hard to take the articles you linked us to seriously

[Edited 2007-02-16 00:14:00]

User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2013 times:

Quoting LYRFlyer (Reply 12):
We would have something to say if you posted links to various sources Otherwise it is hard to take the articles you linked us to seriously

Especially as it would require you to actually read what they have to say...  Yeah sure


User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2012 times:

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 1):
So if im reading that right, people in poor countries are getting hurt when they are scouring the dumps for things? I think that maybe Apple should review what there doing here before they damage their reputation.

Wait... We are supposed to care when a bunch of glorified dumpster divers get hurt?

I'm sorry, if you get the Nasty & Creepies while tooling through trash the only thing I'm going to say is, "DUH".

Oh BTW:

Quoting LYRFlyer (Thread starter):
Chemicals such as toxic flame retardants and polyvinyl chloride are used in Apple products

PVC. Don't look under your sink, it's everywhere. Don't peek in your closet, the PVC is in there too. I bet some has even snuck into your wallet.

[Edited 2007-02-16 00:20:59]

User currently offlineLYRFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2004 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):

Especially as it would require you to actually read what they have to say...

Oh you've already begun with the personal attacks on such an early stage in the thread? That's a new record for you  Wink


User currently offlineLYRFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2002 times:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 14):
PVC. Don't look under your sink, it's everywhere. Don't peek in your closet, the PVC is in there too. I bet some has even snuck into your wallet.

Yes? What about the:

Quoting LYRFlyer (Thread starter):
Chemicals such as toxic flame retardants and polyvinyl chloride are used in Apple products.

?  Smile


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1998 times:

Quoting LYRFlyer (Reply 15):
Oh you've already begun with the personal attacks on such an early stage in the thread? That's a new record for you

If you perceive the request to actually address the issues this thread is supposed to be about as a "personal attack" that's saying a thing or two, but not so much about me, I'd say.


User currently offlineLYRFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1993 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):

If you perceive the request to actually address the issues this thread is supposed to be about as a "personal attack" that's saying a thing or two, but not so much about me, I'd say.

Haha i'm not even going to reply to that comment  Silly You know you're far out, right?  Wink

btw where's your "sunny" smiley?  Smile


User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1993 times:

Quoting LYRFlyer (Reply 16):
Yes? What about the:

BFR's are standard in electronics. Move along, nothing to see.


User currently offlineLYRFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1985 times:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 19):

BFR's are standard in electronics. Move along, nothing to see.

Okay, so if I understand what you're saying right, you're saying that two wrongs make a right? So now we can just sit back and relax because it's the norm no matter how wrong it is?

We'll also just sit back and relax when our children are playing with toys full of PVC, because afterall, toys with PVC is more or less a standard thing today, so what the heck...  Wink

[Edited 2007-02-16 00:43:51]

User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1974 times:

Quoting LYRFlyer (Reply 20):
So now we can just sit back and relax because it's the norm no matter how wrong it is?

No. I'm saying that Apple is using industry standard materials in the manufacture of the I-pod. If greenfarce wants to attack the whole electronics industry (and many non-electronics industries) then feel free to have at. Stop singling out Apple like they are some evil monster bucking a planet saving movement by the rest of the industry. Why doesn't greenfarce just come out and say what they really want? A planet without I-pods, home computers, cellphones, microwave ovens, cars, televisions or indoor plumbing.

Apple should really give them something to complain about and use loose fill asbestos as a flame retardant.

Doesn't greenfarce have a whaling ship to ram or something?

Quoting LYRFlyer (Reply 20):
We'll also just sit back and relax when our children are playing with toys full of PVC, because afterall, toys with PVC is more or less a standard thing today, so what the heck...

Umm, yeah. Most toys do have PVC in them these days. Nothing new, move along.

[Edited 2007-02-16 00:49:10]

User currently offlineLYRFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1965 times:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 21):
Stop singling out Apple like they are some evil monster bucking a planet saving movement by the rest of the industry.

There ARE companies that are working hard to produce goods without the use of toxic materials.

Also, they have to start somewhere.. I don't think it would help if Greenpeace told every company to be 'greener' at once.. it has more impact when they single out 1 company at a time.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 21):

Umm, yeah. Most toys do have PVC in them these days. Nothing new, move along.

duuuhhhh .. I feel like i'm talking to a wall here I rest my case

Have fun trying to tell your kids why they cant have kids themselves someday when they get older

[Edited 2007-02-16 00:55:46]

User currently offlineWellHung From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 10):
If neither of you have anything to say about the actual issues, there's little need to proceed any further, is there? Yeah sure

What actual issues? That Apple isn't responsible with their waste? That's the only one I see. Everything else is just a  hissyfit  by some Klaus wannabe. It's funny none of this shows up at any legit news source, only some fanboy's blog. You simply are incapable of acknowledging Apple's mistakes, evidenced by the fact that you can only find one man's angry ramblings to back up your 'point'. Again, feel free to post legitimate sources and we'll feel free to debate the 'issues'. Otherwise, it's best to scurry back to blogdom fantasyland where all is right with Apple.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):
that's saying a thing or two, but not so much about me, I'd say.

If all you can do is point to the links and cry the same tired line about having to read when someone simply asks for a legit source, well, that does say a lot about you.  yes 


User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1942 times:

Quoting LYRFlyer (Reply 22):
There ARE companies that are working hard to produce goods without the use of toxic materials.

Such as: Natural Zing

I think I'll keep my Apple stock thank you.

Quoting LYRFlyer (Reply 22):
duuuhhhh .. I feel like i'm talking to a wall here I rest my case

If you know that the use of PVC is nothing new, then why the next statement?

Quoting LYRFlyer (Reply 22):
Have fun trying to tell your kids why they cant have kids themselves someday when they get older

PVC has been in widespread use since 1926. Your fear mongering gets you no where.

Back to the other point. If you knew that PVC was nothing new, and you aren't fear mongering with your children claim... wouldn't that mean that there would have been severe reproductive disabilities since 1926 and that it would be highly unlikely that any future generations would have enounter unknown issues since the population would already be saturated with the problem?

In short, wouldn't PVC have stopped human reporduction already?

Your TrollFu is weak.


25 Post contains images LYRFlyer : and lots and lots of other companies being a good example What statement? You're telling me and everyone else to move on as PVC is a normal thing to
26 Post contains links MDorBust : It makes me even wonder if you know what PVC is or if you're just fear mongering with no clue. Read this and begone troll. No, there is a ban against
27 Post contains links and images LYRFlyer : I was not going to bother but you're kind of forcing me to reply How long did it take you to dig up that link? http://www.besafenet.com/pvc/about.htm
28 Post contains links and images LYRFlyer : Some other links: http://www.chem-tox.com/infertility/ "Chemicals found to mimic human estrogens. A proper balance of natural estrogens in the body is
29 MDorBust : Why? Are you afraid that your version of google is slower than mine? Now, let's read your articles shall we? Article 1: " Our bodies are contaminated
30 Post contains links and images LYRFlyer : No, im just convinced that you have an incredible amount of luck Yes shouldn't we? May I remind you of this: "FACT: PVC accounts for about 90% of tot
31 Post contains links MDorBust : Which of course somehow makes the PVC and not the Phthalate the problem? PVC accounting for 90% of Phthalate production does not mean Phthalates are
32 Post contains links Klaus : Okay, now we're getting somewhere! I actually agree that PVC is apparently quite problematic in a whole range of respects, among other things when it'
33 Post contains images LYRFlyer : It makes both of them the problem, as most of the phthalate comes from PVC. Which I have done several times after that comment if you bothered lookin
34 LYRFlyer : Thank you!
35 MDorBust : PVC can be manufactured without Phthalate. Phthalate being a problem does not make PVC a problem. It makes Phthalate a problem. No you have not provi
36 Post contains images LYRFlyer : I give up.. you're cool, you're really cool I only have one thing to say to you: Going to bed now way later than I had planned due to some lame discu
37 Post contains images Klaus : Now, now... what about the topic of the thread...?
38 MDorBust : All you have to do is provide one source with a scientifically prove danger of PVC. Just one. Let's review: I've conceeded that burning PVC is not go
39 LYRFlyer : All you have to do is provide me with the opposite thing. The only thing you have linked me to so far is one (1) random website... I, on the other ha
40 Post contains links MDorBust : That's not quite how it works. You made the claim, now provide the evidence. Now go get one. Find an article that doesn't make it's claim off of; "su
41 Post contains images LYRFlyer : Right back at ya! You claim that PVC isn't dangerous. Please provide me with an article stating that it isn't. I've found lots of them already. I've
42 WSOY : Do you reckon Apple'd be in the future more open about where and how the parts for their products are being manufactured and by whom, so journalists
43 Post contains images Aloges : God damn it, someone in this thread needs to take Chemistry 101! NO! It does NOT! PVC is a rather simple plastic; by the way: do you know what a polym
44 LYRFlyer : Someone needs to read the thread throughly before posting. Yes? Which is done all the time. Therefore PVC is the problem till there isn't any phtalat
45 Aloges : Guess why I'm irked by it. The things made out of PVC can be problematic, the plastic itself isn't. Was that dough example so incomprehensible? Where
46 Post contains images LYRFlyer : I don't like guessing games No, I just look at this with a different view than you do. PVC IS the problem in most of the world as long as there are p
47 Aloges : The point that I'm trying to make is that the phthalates aren't in the PVC itself. They are in the things made out of PVC, plasticiser, pigments and
48 MDorBust : I did. In the post right above yours. Again I ask you to provide scientic evidence of the dangers of PVC. If you post again without a scientific link
49 Post contains links and images LYRFlyer : I know. Can we move on now? It isn't, but we still have a moral responsibility, I think. Not really Yes, but in these cases it is more about economy
50 Post contains links MDorBust : So Reply #40 doesn't exist? ICTM Yeah... definately a shady bunch of guys there... Your scientific source for scientific information is Greenfarce? O
51 Post contains images LYRFlyer : Yes, just read what I wrote further down Yeah, just like greenpeace? For some reason I didn't expect a more intelligent response from you either Haha
52 Post contains links and images MDorBust : Troll, this is my final post on the subject. You can blather on all you want, but I won't feed you anymore. I'm going to sum up the entirety of what y
53 Post contains images LYRFlyer : You DO have issues! Oh wow well done How long did it take you to dig up some random quotes? I'm not going to bother replying to such a long post plus
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