Mbj-11 From Jamaica, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 386 posts, RR: 1 Posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4347 times:
Just sharing my two cents guys..............For Jamaica, undoubtedly Percival James Patterson (P J Patterson). He's sold everything to foreign investors for far less than the actual value, presided over a crime rate which has come close to civil war figures without doing anything much (didn't want to lose support among his warring supporters and enemies) and has also presided over the greatest devaluation of the currency since independence. Elected with a value of 1 US = $5.50 JM, departed 1 US = $ 65 JM (then) currency now $67.
Definitely a candidate for worst leader ever...........BTW his successor currently Portia Simpson Miller has taken over and in 10 months has lost $2 on the dollar and has broken the murder record under her watch. As according to her she won't do anything until she gets her own mandate........ definitely a close rival in her short tenure.
QANTASFOREVER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4348 times:
The worst was Prime Minister Billy McMahon. No question about that. He was weak, ineffective, and contributed nothing. He believed that the whole point of politics was "...getting voted in!".
The next to worst is the current Prime Minister, John Howard. A man who began life as a hate spitting racist, and went on to encourage a culture of uninspired apathy among the population. He never listens, he is in a race to stay in office despite his complete lack of interest in doing what is really best for the majority of Australians (a majority that never voted for the man). He constantly embarrasses himself and his country on the world stage, and not once in his almost 12 years in office has he ever said anything inspirational or memorable with the obvious exception of a quote extolling the virtues of micromanaged immigration. Bravo, Prime Minister. Your time is running out...
Nationalists in Canada would likely say Brian Mulroney (PM 1984-1993) as he signed the Free Trade Agreement with the US, then the Canada-US-Mexico free trade agreement. I think history will likely be kinder to him.
I think you have to reach back a little further, either John Deifenbaker (PM 1957-63) or Robert Bennett (PM 1930-35).
Deifenbaker presided over a dysfunctional government that tried to straddle the gap between western progressivism and Quebec nationalists -- kind of like riding two horses. Lots of cabinet scandals as I recall, although I was pretty young at the time. Our dollar weakened from being above par with the US$ to being well below par. Cancelling the Avro Arrow interceptor program is a red herring since the Liberals would have done it in any event.
Borden was present when the Great Depression devastated the country.
All three Conservatives, interestingly.
I'll turn it around: who was the greatest ever leader?
For Canada, I'll vote for either Mackenzie King or Trudeau.
Stirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4319 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 4): It is pretty close between the current one, George W. Bush and Dwight Eisenhower
Dubya is obvious.
Ike however is a bold deviation from convential wisdom.
Unfortunately, Eisenhower is synonomous with that warm and fuzzy decade of the 1950s, where the USA was living under a blanket of self-denial. (Kind of like today) Truth is, if one is to trace the source of what drives Iranian, and Muslim animosity in general towards the USA, look no further than the office of Dwight Eisenhower.
Mossadeq, the freely elected President had a problem with the British stealing the oil wealth of Iran, so he nationalized the industry. Enter Ike on the side of the Brits and the problem is soon gone. Mossadeq is assasinated, the Shah is brought to power. For a quarter century this festered in the minds of the Iranian people, their nation being a puppet to U.S. interests, to the point they could take it no more.
The hostage crisis, as horrible as it was, did not just happen because the Iranians "Hated our freedom". Understanding the events of history goes a long way in understanding why the world is they way it is today.
In his final address to the American people, I think Eisenhower may have been expressing remorse at his actions over the last 8 years in office when he warned "be aware the power of the military-industrial complex..." How could he have had such vision? Because the rise of corporate America determining foreign policy took hold under his presidency.
He couldn't come out and say he screwed up....but at least he could warn the U.S. to the monster he had created.
Boeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1833 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4311 times:
Note: My flag says Austria, but I am Canadian
Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 2): Deifenbaker presided over a dysfunctional government that tried to straddle the gap between western progressivism and Quebec nationalists -- kind of like riding two horses. Lots of cabinet scandals as I recall, although I was pretty young at the time.
I wasn't alive at the time, so I don't really know much about him, but if I recall correctly, wasn't he the one who got Natives full voting rights? Certainly that must count for some credit...
MaidensGator From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 945 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4311 times:
Quoting Aloges (Reply 8): Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 7):
But why let the facts get in the way of a good story....
Nevertheless, he was ousted during a coup staged mostly by foreign nations.
I didn't dispute the overall post. I am familiar with the history and the support the Shah received from the US and Britain. However, I'm sure not everyone on this board does know what happened. Why sensationalize the events. I think you'll admit "assassinated" just sounds so much worse than "died at home."
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26444 posts, RR: 75
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4282 times:
Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 7): Mossadeq was sentenced to 3 years house arrest for treason and died of natural causes in his home....
"Treason". In reality, he was doing the will of his people, the people who made up Iran. The only one who committed treason was the Shah who came back in the place of a deposed, democratically elected government.
Quoting Aloges (Reply 8): Nevertheless, he was ousted during a coup staged mostly by foreign nations.
That coup was practically orchestrated by the CIA and carried out by the SAS in its entirety. Popular support in Iran was firmly behind Mossadeq, who had no designs on Soviet-style totalitarianism, rather having Iranians in control of their own economy. Most ignore, forget or don't know that one of his first actions was to balance the Iranian budget without the use of Petro-Dollars (or Tomans in this case), maintaining money made from oil for surplus. He was rather conservative economically and would have fit in well with purported US ideology, but greed and allegiance to the UK trumped that. Eisenhower's orders to reinstall the Shah were essentially the direct cause of the 1979 Iranian Revolution and the 28 years of bad relations between two countries with very similar core (read non-religious, and even religious to a point) ideologies.
If anything, Carter should have hung an "ally", namely the Shah of Iran, out to dry and placed his support behind the more leftist factions in Iran (and I don't mean the out and out Sovietists, I mean the vast group of moderates from Tudeh who are some of the biggest capitalists the US has ever seen). It would have kept Khomeini on the margins and allowed Bakhtiar and even Banisadr to govern the country out of its transitional period. Of course, Reagan's support of Saddam Hussein in his little war of aggression didn't help matters.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Cadet985 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1551 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4242 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 4): It is pretty close between the current one, George W. Bush and Dwight Eisenhower, to whom most of the problems of today and yesterday (Iran, Israel, Vietnam) can be attributed.
Israel is NOT a problem for us. Israel is an ally of the US. The problem is the Palestinian regime, which while Israel is making a concerted effort for peace, the Palestinians are making a concerted effort to increase their suicide bombings, rocket attacks, etc.
Searpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4237 times:
I don't know if I'd call Carter the 'worst'. Certainly one of the most ineffective, and some of his actions/inactions may have exacerbated problems, but I don't think he actually caused any long term damage to the country.
I won't say GW, simply because its too early. I think he will be judged harshly, but we won't know that for awhile.
I think Coolidge and/or Harding rank up there 'worst' because of actual damage done to the country. The corruption in their governments set the stage for much of politics as we know it today. In my lifetime, I'd have to say Nixon. Despite some accomplishments in policy, the damage Watergate did to the American psyche can't be underestimated.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26444 posts, RR: 75
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4206 times:
Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 17): Israel is NOT a problem for us. Israel is an ally of the US.
Switch from the Kool-Aid to Crystal Light man. If the US hadn't pissed away its best and most natural ally in the Middle East, Iran, what has happened in Israel in the last 10 or so years would likely have never come to pass. It is this overreliance on a single ally that was formed under dubious circumstances and the willingness to go along with whatever illegal scheme they cook up next that has fueled the dogma of the opportunistic brainwashers that turn poor people into their own political weapons. Carter was making serious headway with Camp David and would have been able to see that through had he not had to turn his head toward Iran, which should have been a done deal a quarter century before. Meanwhile, the opportunistic political elite in Israel, particularly on the right, took the chance to solidify their political and economic influence. You went from having a secular, strong ally in Iran as the number 1 US ally in the region to a non-secular (anyone who says religion and state are truely seperate in Israel is blind), aggressor nation backed up a number 2 in the form of none other than Saddam.
he's a disgrace to our nation, he's divided the people of this great country like no other, he's lied to the people who employ him (the public) at every opportunity, he's brought terrorism closer to our doorstep then any other PM, his continued apathy towards David Hicks is a disgrace to the "fair go" way that this country is famous for...and he's about to lead us into a recession we didn't have to have.
Quoting VHVXB (Reply 15): His time definately coming to an end. He has multiple issues to contend with at the next election which will eventually bring his downfall
if it doesn't then it's fair to say we're living in a country full of idiots...the only thing that can save Howard is a terrorist attack or something of that nature close to home.
a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
Connies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4178 times:
Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 9): I wasn't alive at the time, so I don't really know much about him, but if I recall correctly, wasn't he the one who got Natives full voting rights? Certainly that must count for some credit...
That's true and to his government's credit.
Quoting ArniePie (Reply 5): For Belgium I would say without a doubt King Leopold II (end of 19th century) , the shit he pulled in the Congo mainly for his personal wealth is mind-boggling.
From what I have read, fully agree.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
: I'd have to say he was a turd too. However, for utter turdery, I might have to say Mr. Warren G. Harding...he did play favorites like no one else. I
: Ask your old man about Edward (Ted) Heath or Tony Benn they were lousy PM's from what what I have been told.
: It has to be our current Prime Minister, Stephen Harper.
: I thought he was just head of the Gestapo in the Czech Republic. Dominic
: I don't think anyone, apart from a few diehard republicans, would argue that Charles J Haughey was the worst leader we've ever had. He was corrupt, an
: I fail to see why Dubya is obvious to someone from Italy? Spot on. In my adult life, the absolute biggest waste of space in the Oval Office. Of cours
: Come on are you serious, maybe you need to think a bit more
: Because he didn't let his religious beliefs dictate his administration policies. Actually he been a pain in the ass to each administration since he l
: One of the reasons I'm enbarassed to be from Georgia. Anyway, here's mine:
: I have to include Julia Roberts to the list of famous idiots from my home state.
: I'd put Jimmy Carter second in my lifetime, right ahead of Richard Nixon. Carter is a good man, who was over his head in the presidency. And he came
: Definitely George W. Bush, is there even a debate outside of Utah, Mississippi and Texas?
: I would be far more embarrassed of my inability to spell "embarrassed" though in general I would be rather embarrassed if I lived in Georgia also, an
38 V Jet
: Paul Keating and his 17% interest rates. Arrogant prick he was!
: Easy one ANC, while Bush subscribes to the "Faith without works" brand of Christianity, Carter was more along the lines of letting his actions do his
: hangon champ, the govt has nothing to do with the RBA, our economy is the way it is now because of Keatings vision...you seem mis-informed, do yourse
: Why? Because he sucked. While it is true that he wasn't the President who first got the US involved in Vietnam (and theoretically, one could point pa
: How is it like today? People back in the 1950s didn't question their government and everyone was all the same like you were in the movie Pleasantvill
: What Eisenhower you must be mad. Bush is by far better then are WORST PRESIDENT EVER WILLIAM (BILL) JEFFERSON CLINTON!
: and not mention his ministers Ruddock and Downer who constantly played down that they couldn't bring Hicks back until now
: But justly or not, the only one convicted of treason was Mossadeq... He did? Oh yeah, I almost forgot he and his Great Society ended poverty.... That
: I think you might be right, Rudd will proably be the next PM. Mind you, I thought Latham might have got in last time, but he was pretty much certifia
: Darth Cheney, heck he's running the show and The Decider is taking orders...George, I am your father.
: During the same period we had Bruening of the Christian Zentrums Partei. He was the last chancellor of the Weimar Republic before Hitler and followed
: What in the hell is that supposed to mean? If this were the case Dubya would have been history a long time ago.
: I am a left-leaning Liberal (closer to the NDP than Conservatives!), and even I have to disagree. Harper has only been in office for just over a year
: As an Irishman, I have to say the choice is difficult - not because we have a huge choice to select from (!), but because the one I'm going to choose
: The economic boom in Ireland started after you guys joined the EU, expanding your markets (both import and export) from the trade with the UK, which
53 ME AVN FAN
: Mossadegh was toppled by the USA and Britain. "Sentences" by the "incoming" regime can hardly be regarded as argument. - while I regard Jimmy Carter
: Actually the founding of the unemployment insurance during the recession was one of the most controversal issue at the end of the Weimar republic and
: I have to vouch for Diefenbaker as well. He was instrumental in passing the Canadian Bill of Rights in the House of Commons, introduced voting rights
: If you received your primary education during his tenure (and if the results are actually to blame on him), you might have a point there. Otherwise -
: led the Japanese nation down the road to an incredible conflict that cost most of her physical history and a generation of suffering and societal deca
: The 'Little Guy from Shawinigan' would be tops on my list. Almost presided over the breakup of Canada thanks to his inaction. I think that would make