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Your Country's Worst Ever Leader?  
User currently offlineMbj-11 From Jamaica, joined Aug 2000, 386 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4402 times:

Just sharing my two cents guys..............For Jamaica, undoubtedly Percival James Patterson (P J Patterson). He's sold everything to foreign investors for far less than the actual value, presided over a crime rate which has come close to civil war figures without doing anything much (didn't want to lose support among his warring supporters and enemies) and has also presided over the greatest devaluation of the currency since independence. Elected with a value of 1 US = $5.50 JM, departed 1 US = $ 65 JM (then) currency now $67.
Definitely a candidate for worst leader ever...........BTW his successor currently Portia Simpson Miller has taken over and in 10 months has lost $2 on the dollar and has broken the murder record under her watch. As according to her she won't do anything until she gets her own mandate........ definitely a close rival in her short tenure.

Who's your country's worst ever?


Jesus is the Christ and he alone saves
250 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQANTASFOREVER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4403 times:

The worst was Prime Minister Billy McMahon. No question about that. He was weak, ineffective, and contributed nothing. He believed that the whole point of politics was "...getting voted in!".

The next to worst is the current Prime Minister, John Howard. A man who began life as a hate spitting racist, and went on to encourage a culture of uninspired apathy among the population. He never listens, he is in a race to stay in office despite his complete lack of interest in doing what is really best for the majority of Australians (a majority that never voted for the man). He constantly embarrasses himself and his country on the world stage, and not once in his almost 12 years in office has he ever said anything inspirational or memorable with the obvious exception of a quote extolling the virtues of micromanaged immigration. Bravo, Prime Minister. Your time is running out...

QFF


User currently offlineConnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4397 times:

Quoting Mbj-11 (Thread starter):
Who's your country's worst ever?

Nationalists in Canada would likely say Brian Mulroney (PM 1984-1993) as he signed the Free Trade Agreement with the US, then the Canada-US-Mexico free trade agreement. I think history will likely be kinder to him.

I think you have to reach back a little further, either John Deifenbaker (PM 1957-63) or Robert Bennett (PM 1930-35).

Deifenbaker presided over a dysfunctional government that tried to straddle the gap between western progressivism and Quebec nationalists -- kind of like riding two horses. Lots of cabinet scandals as I recall, although I was pretty young at the time. Our dollar weakened from being above par with the US$ to being well below par. Cancelling the Avro Arrow interceptor program is a red herring since the Liberals would have done it in any event.

Borden was present when the Great Depression devastated the country.

All three Conservatives, interestingly.

I'll turn it around: who was the greatest ever leader?

For Canada, I'll vote for either Mackenzie King or Trudeau.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8731 posts, RR: 42
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4393 times:

Not really a question here: Adolf Hitler. It's pointless to explain why.


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26704 posts, RR: 75
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4394 times:

It is pretty close between the current one, George W. Bush and Dwight Eisenhower, to whom most of the problems of today and yesterday (Iran, Israel, Vietnam) can be attributed.


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineArniePie From Belgium, joined Aug 2005, 1265 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4376 times:

For Belgium I would say without a doubt King Leopold II (end of 19th century) , the shit he pulled in the Congo mainly for his personal wealth is mind-boggling.

People should not only be taught its country's greatest moments but definately also its darkest periods, something that is missing these days in many countries and schools.



[edit post]
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4374 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 4):
It is pretty close between the current one, George W. Bush and Dwight Eisenhower

Dubya is obvious.
Ike however is a bold deviation from convential wisdom.
Unfortunately, Eisenhower is synonomous with that warm and fuzzy decade of the 1950s, where the USA was living under a blanket of self-denial. (Kind of like today) Truth is, if one is to trace the source of what drives Iranian, and Muslim animosity in general towards the USA, look no further than the office of Dwight Eisenhower.

Mossadeq, the freely elected President had a problem with the British stealing the oil wealth of Iran, so he nationalized the industry. Enter Ike on the side of the Brits and the problem is soon gone. Mossadeq is assasinated, the Shah is brought to power. For a quarter century this festered in the minds of the Iranian people, their nation being a puppet to U.S. interests, to the point they could take it no more.
The hostage crisis, as horrible as it was, did not just happen because the Iranians "Hated our freedom". Understanding the events of history goes a long way in understanding why the world is they way it is today.

In his final address to the American people, I think Eisenhower may have been expressing remorse at his actions over the last 8 years in office when he warned "be aware the power of the military-industrial complex..." How could he have had such vision? Because the rise of corporate America determining foreign policy took hold under his presidency.
He couldn't come out and say he screwed up....but at least he could warn the U.S. to the monster he had created.



Delete this User
User currently offlineMaidensGator From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 945 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4374 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 6):
Mossadeq is assasinated, the Shah is brought to power.

Mossadeq was sentenced to 3 years house arrest for treason and died of natural causes in his home....

But why let the facts get in the way of a good story....



The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8731 posts, RR: 42
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4367 times:

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 7):
But why let the facts get in the way of a good story....

Nevertheless, he was ousted during a coup staged mostly by foreign nations.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently onlineBoeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1843 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4366 times:

Note: My flag says Austria, but I am Canadian

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 2):
Deifenbaker presided over a dysfunctional government that tried to straddle the gap between western progressivism and Quebec nationalists -- kind of like riding two horses. Lots of cabinet scandals as I recall, although I was pretty young at the time.

I wasn't alive at the time, so I don't really know much about him, but if I recall correctly, wasn't he the one who got Natives full voting rights? Certainly that must count for some credit...

My vote would be for Mulroney also.

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 2):
All three Conservatives, interestingly.

Hehe... wonder why?  Wink


User currently offlineMaidensGator From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 945 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4366 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 8):
Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 7):
But why let the facts get in the way of a good story....

Nevertheless, he was ousted during a coup staged mostly by foreign nations.

I didn't dispute the overall post. I am familiar with the history and the support the Shah received from the US and Britain. However, I'm sure not everyone on this board does know what happened. Why sensationalize the events. I think you'll admit "assassinated" just sounds so much worse than "died at home."



The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
User currently offlineZruda From Czech Republic, joined May 2006, 784 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4351 times:

then for my country it was probably Reinhard Heydrich... thought we had a few red swines as well


there is no coincidence
User currently offlineQueso From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4350 times:

Quoting Mbj-11 (Thread starter):
Your Country's Worst Ever Leader?

Pretty easy question, at least within the time I have been alive.



User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26704 posts, RR: 75
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4337 times:

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 7):
Mossadeq was sentenced to 3 years house arrest for treason and died of natural causes in his home....

"Treason". In reality, he was doing the will of his people, the people who made up Iran. The only one who committed treason was the Shah who came back in the place of a deposed, democratically elected government.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 8):
Nevertheless, he was ousted during a coup staged mostly by foreign nations.

That coup was practically orchestrated by the CIA and carried out by the SAS in its entirety. Popular support in Iran was firmly behind Mossadeq, who had no designs on Soviet-style totalitarianism, rather having Iranians in control of their own economy. Most ignore, forget or don't know that one of his first actions was to balance the Iranian budget without the use of Petro-Dollars (or Tomans in this case), maintaining money made from oil for surplus. He was rather conservative economically and would have fit in well with purported US ideology, but greed and allegiance to the UK trumped that. Eisenhower's orders to reinstall the Shah were essentially the direct cause of the 1979 Iranian Revolution and the 28 years of bad relations between two countries with very similar core (read non-religious, and even religious to a point) ideologies.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 6):
Mossadeq, the freely elected President

Prime Minister

Quoting Stirling (Reply 6):
Mossadeq is assasinated

He was not assasinated. In fact, the coup was almost bloodless.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineMiamiair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4337 times:

Quoting Queso (Reply 12):
Pretty easy question, at least within the time I have been alive.

I'll Second that one!

Ineffective, hung his "allies/friends" out to dry.


User currently offlineVHVXB From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 5525 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4319 times:

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 1):
Prime Minister, John Howard.

His time definately coming to an end. He has multiple issues to contend with at the next election which will eventually bring his downfall


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26704 posts, RR: 75
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4317 times:

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 14):
hung his "allies/friends" out to dry.

If anything, Carter should have hung an "ally", namely the Shah of Iran, out to dry and placed his support behind the more leftist factions in Iran (and I don't mean the out and out Sovietists, I mean the vast group of moderates from Tudeh who are some of the biggest capitalists the US has ever seen). It would have kept Khomeini on the margins and allowed Bakhtiar and even Banisadr to govern the country out of its transitional period. Of course, Reagan's support of Saddam Hussein in his little war of aggression didn't help matters.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineCadet985 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1639 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4297 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 4):
It is pretty close between the current one, George W. Bush and Dwight Eisenhower, to whom most of the problems of today and yesterday (Iran, Israel, Vietnam) can be attributed.

Israel is NOT a problem for us. Israel is an ally of the US. The problem is the Palestinian regime, which while Israel is making a concerted effort for peace, the Palestinians are making a concerted effort to increase their suicide bombings, rocket attacks, etc.

Marc


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4292 times:

I don't know if I'd call Carter the 'worst'. Certainly one of the most ineffective, and some of his actions/inactions may have exacerbated problems, but I don't think he actually caused any long term damage to the country.

I won't say GW, simply because its too early. I think he will be judged harshly, but we won't know that for awhile.

I think Coolidge and/or Harding rank up there 'worst' because of actual damage done to the country. The corruption in their governments set the stage for much of politics as we know it today. In my lifetime, I'd have to say Nixon. Despite some accomplishments in policy, the damage Watergate did to the American psyche can't be underestimated.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4281 times:

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 14):


Quote:
Queso (Reply 12):
Pretty easy question, at least within the time I have been alive.

I'll Second that one!

Third.

LBJ and James Buchanan have to be up there (or rather, down there) too.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26704 posts, RR: 75
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4261 times:

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 17):
Israel is NOT a problem for us. Israel is an ally of the US.

Switch from the Kool-Aid to Crystal Light man. If the US hadn't pissed away its best and most natural ally in the Middle East, Iran, what has happened in Israel in the last 10 or so years would likely have never come to pass. It is this overreliance on a single ally that was formed under dubious circumstances and the willingness to go along with whatever illegal scheme they cook up next that has fueled the dogma of the opportunistic brainwashers that turn poor people into their own political weapons. Carter was making serious headway with Camp David and would have been able to see that through had he not had to turn his head toward Iran, which should have been a done deal a quarter century before. Meanwhile, the opportunistic political elite in Israel, particularly on the right, took the chance to solidify their political and economic influence. You went from having a secular, strong ally in Iran as the number 1 US ally in the region to a non-secular (anyone who says religion and state are truely seperate in Israel is blind), aggressor nation backed up a number 2 in the form of none other than Saddam.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 19):
LBJ

Why? Because he actually made a difference. While he is inexorably linked to Vietnam, Eisenhower got us into that one too.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 857 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4238 times:

Olof Palme IMO!

Very pompous and snotty with many political friends and foe.

R.I.P.

Micke//  yuck 



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineAjd1992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4234 times:

Maggie Thatcher, definately. I've heard some of the stories from my dad.... Evil bitch  Silly

Or Tony Blair. He basically does what Dubya does when it comes to war.... I said to 808TWA that Blair is Dubya's bitch, he laughed but it's true in a sense.


User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5861 posts, RR: 39
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4233 times:

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 1):
The next to worst is the current Prime Minister, John Howard.

he's a disgrace to our nation, he's divided the people of this great country like no other, he's lied to the people who employ him (the public) at every opportunity, he's brought terrorism closer to our doorstep then any other PM, his continued apathy towards David Hicks is a disgrace to the "fair go" way that this country is famous for...and he's about to lead us into a recession we didn't have to have.

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 15):
His time definately coming to an end. He has multiple issues to contend with at the next election which will eventually bring his downfall

if it doesn't then it's fair to say we're living in a country full of idiots...the only thing that can save Howard is a terrorist attack or something of that nature close to home.



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineConnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4233 times:

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 9):
I wasn't alive at the time, so I don't really know much about him, but if I recall correctly, wasn't he the one who got Natives full voting rights? Certainly that must count for some credit...

That's true and to his government's credit.

Quoting ArniePie (Reply 5):
For Belgium I would say without a doubt King Leopold II (end of 19th century) , the shit he pulled in the Congo mainly for his personal wealth is mind-boggling.

From what I have read, fully agree.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
25 Post contains images Halcyon : I'd have to say he was a turd too. However, for utter turdery, I might have to say Mr. Warren G. Harding...he did play favorites like no one else. I
26 Egmcman : Ask your old man about Edward (Ted) Heath or Tony Benn they were lousy PM's from what what I have been told.
27 JAL : It has to be our current Prime Minister, Stephen Harper.
28 TheSorcerer : I thought he was just head of the Gestapo in the Czech Republic. Dominic
29 Braybuddy : I don't think anyone, apart from a few diehard republicans, would argue that Charles J Haughey was the worst leader we've ever had. He was corrupt, an
30 Post contains images ANCFlyer : I fail to see why Dubya is obvious to someone from Italy? Spot on. In my adult life, the absolute biggest waste of space in the Oval Office. Of cours
31 Thomson735 : Come on are you serious, maybe you need to think a bit more
32 AirCop : Because he didn't let his religious beliefs dictate his administration policies. Actually he been a pain in the ass to each administration since he l
33 Post contains images N776AU : One of the reasons I'm enbarassed to be from Georgia. Anyway, here's mine:
34 Post contains images Halcyon : I have to include Julia Roberts to the list of famous idiots from my home state.
35 Falcon84 : I'd put Jimmy Carter second in my lifetime, right ahead of Richard Nixon. Carter is a good man, who was over his head in the presidency. And he came
36 BAGoldEx : Definitely George W. Bush, is there even a debate outside of Utah, Mississippi and Texas?
37 BAGoldEx : I would be far more embarrassed of my inability to spell "embarrassed" though in general I would be rather embarrassed if I lived in Georgia also, an
38 V Jet : Paul Keating and his 17% interest rates. Arrogant prick he was!
39 HPLASOps : Easy one ANC, while Bush subscribes to the "Faith without works" brand of Christianity, Carter was more along the lines of letting his actions do his
40 QANTAS077 : hangon champ, the govt has nothing to do with the RBA, our economy is the way it is now because of Keatings vision...you seem mis-informed, do yourse
41 Post contains images FlyDeltaJets87 : Why? Because he sucked. While it is true that he wasn't the President who first got the US involved in Vietnam (and theoretically, one could point pa
42 Post contains images NASCARAirforce : How is it like today? People back in the 1950s didn't question their government and everyone was all the same like you were in the movie Pleasantvill
43 Dw9115 : What Eisenhower you must be mad. Bush is by far better then are WORST PRESIDENT EVER WILLIAM (BILL) JEFFERSON CLINTON!
44 VHVXB : and not mention his ministers Ruddock and Downer who constantly played down that they couldn't bring Hicks back until now
45 Post contains images MaidensGator : But justly or not, the only one convicted of treason was Mossadeq... He did? Oh yeah, I almost forgot he and his Great Society ended poverty.... That
46 Melpax : I think you might be right, Rudd will proably be the next PM. Mind you, I thought Latham might have got in last time, but he was pretty much certifia
47 Confuscius : Darth Cheney, heck he's running the show and The Decider is taking orders...George, I am your father.
48 MD11Engineer : During the same period we had Bruening of the Christian Zentrums Partei. He was the last chancellor of the Weimar Republic before Hitler and followed
49 Post contains images UAXDXer : What in the hell is that supposed to mean? If this were the case Dubya would have been history a long time ago.
50 Boeing744 : I am a left-leaning Liberal (closer to the NDP than Conservatives!), and even I have to disagree. Harper has only been in office for just over a year
51 Kaitak : As an Irishman, I have to say the choice is difficult - not because we have a huge choice to select from (!), but because the one I'm going to choose
52 MD11Engineer : The economic boom in Ireland started after you guys joined the EU, expanding your markets (both import and export) from the trade with the UK, which
53 ME AVN FAN : Mossadegh was toppled by the USA and Britain. "Sentences" by the "incoming" regime can hardly be regarded as argument. - while I regard Jimmy Carter
54 Post contains links Pelican : Actually the founding of the unemployment insurance during the recession was one of the most controversal issue at the end of the Weimar republic and
55 Jamincan : I have to vouch for Diefenbaker as well. He was instrumental in passing the Canadian Bill of Rights in the House of Commons, introduced voting rights
56 Klaus : If you received your primary education during his tenure (and if the results are actually to blame on him), you might have a point there. Otherwise -
57 Post contains images Aaron747 : led the Japanese nation down the road to an incredible conflict that cost most of her physical history and a generation of suffering and societal deca
58 Post contains images MattRB : The 'Little Guy from Shawinigan' would be tops on my list. Almost presided over the breakup of Canada thanks to his inaction. I think that would make
59 Post contains images Kunoichi : Anders Fogh Rasmussen...
60 Post contains images Queso : I'm sorry, Falcon is gonna be pissed when he sees that you are using his A.net account. You'd better log off now and let the REAL Falcon log on.
61 Post contains images Falcon84 : No, it's me. I did not agree with most of what Reagan did, but he has been, in my lifetime, the most effective President. He got things done; he work
62 Tom12 : Definetly. Thatcher was a spineless old woman. Cold and evil. Tom
63 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Well, he was pretty uiet then wasn't he . . . he didn't DO anything for four years.
64 LHStarAlliance : Adolf Hitler ... After II WW : Helmut Kohl / Schröder Best :Willi Brandt
65 MD11Engineer : Going off topic I would rate Helmut Schmidt together with Willi Brandt as the two best chancellors we had so far. Jan
66 ME AVN FAN : what about Konrad Adenauer as the first of a trio of "big men" ?
67 MD11Engineer : His motto "Keine Experimente" (No experiments) says all. Jan
68 Stirling : Ouch....Can't believe I made that mistake....an honest mistake, not an attempt to distort or misconstrue. I was thinking of too many things at once..
69 MD11Engineer : He also f#cked up the pension system by automatically connecting the heigth of the pensions with the rise of the average salaries. This obviously gav
70 Egmcman : When he was PM from what I have been told there was a strike a week rubbish was not collected the dead were were not being buried and the country was
71 ME AVN FAN : but I mean he "started" the FRG, he was one of the starters of the Montan-Union (later on EEC), he worked for the German-French reconciliation and fr
72 Dw9115 : Dick is not the president he is the vice president. Good ol' Bill never did anything but make a face that looked like he cared and did nothing except
73 Braybuddy : No: the economic boom started around 1992, 19 years after we joined the EU in 1973. The country was in major recession in the early to mid-80s, and e
74 ME AVN FAN : no, I happened to be in London in autumn 1972 when Teddy Heath was in office and their was no strike for 3 months, quite uncommon in the 60ies and 70
75 Searpqx : I won't argue that he is a brilliant man, and a true statesman. But beyond Camp David (which counts for a lot, believe me), I look back at his term a
76 ME AVN FAN : it was Camp David civil aviation DEregulation environmental measures support for democracy in Latin America the Panama Canal Treaty
77 DC10extender : Warren G. Harding, Dubya, Nixon, Andy Jackson, Buchanan.
78 Stirling : As do I....it was a bleak period for America. But the country did not go from day to night on his inaugaration as you noted...Watergate, Nixon, Vietn
79 Egmcman : Maybe not when you were here but htere were strikes afterwards. They should have done what Maggie did and reduce union power as it was not good for t
80 Post contains images WestJetYQQ : As Would I! He Wrecked the Avro Arrow Project!
81 Kaitak : I think that of all the words you could use to describe MT, "spineless" would be pretty much at the very bottom of the list; as an Irishman, I certai
82 MaidensGator : I accept that. I just hadn't remembered assassination, so I checked. Whichever side of any political debate you may be on there are sure to be plenty
83 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Screwed that up good . . . . should have never happened. That canal has been mis-managed ever since. Ah, thats normal for the US though. Built it, pa
84 Mbj-11 : Just curious, what made Clinton a bad leader, apart from his infidelity (which is between him and Hillary), but what scandals did he bring?
85 Fumanchewd : You may be right but you may be wrong. The future is written by many things, none of which are an individual's opinion. I believe that the actions of
86 Speedbird747BA : He completely mis-managed the military. Unfortunatly, not too much has changed. Cheers, Kyle
87 Klaus : You need to be right at least occasionally and at least about some things to give later historians a chance to come to a totally different vote than
88 Post contains images Klaus : He didn't prepare it adequately for Bush's voluntary Iraq blunder? Well, that will certainly make the historians damn him for all eternity!
89 Speedbird747BA : Are you blaming Clintons mis-management of the military on Bush? Because our little desert adventure, Part deux, showed what holes Clinton punched? N
90 Confuscius : Are you blaming Clintons mis-management of the military on Bush? Which is worse, neglecting the military or knowingly going to war with a neglected mi
91 Falcon84 : I did not say I think he was a great leader. I said he was probably the most effective president in my lifetime, with Bill Clinton second. We haven't
92 Klaus : Knowingly going into an unprovoked war with a neglected(?) military... "?" because every military will feel neglected, all the time!
93 Alessandro : Sudden, I think Ingvar Carlsson was the worst I can think of.
94 Post contains images Speedbird747BA : Both are bad, but its not like it wasnt provoked. Youre right, 9/11 wasnt enough to go to war over. But of course you will all say Iraq wasnt provoke
95 Klaus : Correct, and factually so. Now, that wasn't so hard, was it?
96 ANCFlyer : Spare me the BS Klaus. Do not make me list the crap Clinton did to the military that would have made ANY war a nearly impossible feat. We can go back
97 Speedbird747BA : Im misunderstanding your post I think....... Could you please elaborate or make clearer to me? Cheers, Kyle
98 MaidensGator : If you think it's a safe bet, I'd love to play poker with you... I'm not saying you won't be proven correct; I'm saying it's not a sure thing. After
99 Post contains images N1120A : You must like Franco then. Gotta love spiraling this country into debt, ignoring AIDS, facilitating Khomeni's solidification of power, the endless an
100 Post contains images Klaus : Subtract the unnecessary Iraq invasion, put the resources into Afghanistan and elsewhere, add the international support freely given and further offe
101 ANCFlyer : You have once again missed the boat my friend. It wouldn't matter where a conflict was to take place, post Clinton drawdown. The Military wasn't/isn'
102 Klaus : You're telling me that Iraq is merely manned and supplied with surplus troops and equipment who and which would not be needed in Afghanistan anyway?
103 NASCARAirforce : I have never really heard a politician say that. Although I do see what you are saying. A lot of older people say that. Going into an illegal war wit
104 ANCFlyer : Good God Klaus, there you go again, playing dumb. You know better, you're smarter than that. I can say that nearly 1/2 the troops on duty in Iraq/Afg
105 Klaus : Apart from the repeated attempts of personal insults which I still respectfully decline to take personally as in (almost) all the previous instants,
106 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Nothing personal at all. Not insulting either. I just get tired of repeating myself, I may have to resort to drawing small pictures . . . I did, seve
107 L-188 : Alaska's leaders, Well I have to put up the one two punch of Frank Murkowski and Steve Cooper. On the US national lever the worst presidents have to b
108 Post contains images Falcon84 : What economy were you in, dude? Just the longest sustained period of growth in our nation. God, some people are smoking some good lettuce tonight.
109 L-188 : Bull, it was a bubble that burst 6 months before the 2000 election. GW's greatest fiscal achievement was keeping the economy from going completely in
110 Falcon84 : EVERY fantastic economy bursts, L-188. And it ran from around '93 till the 2000 election. That's pretty good. It's a helluva lot better than this so-
111 Klaus : Please point out such an occasion where you actually addressed my points without sidestepping the issue as above.
112 WildcatYXU : I dare to disagree. While Rheinhard Heydrich as reichsprotektor indeed wasn't the best, he wasn't even Czech, so I don't know if he qualifies. For me
113 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : - When I went to London in September 72, everybody warned me "those Englishmen are on strike all the time" ! No, your nation was KNOWN for being on s
115 Post contains links Turbo7x7 : Perhaps I shouldn't get in between this little love spat. . . but just wanted to point out that even if Shrubya had inherited twice the military from
116 Post contains images FlyDeltaJets87 : Way to side step the point. Ironically, I knew you would do that, so honestly I'm not surprised. Rather than addressing the point about Johnson misma
117 Sebolino : Philippe Petain of course, which is a real shame for France.
118 Dw9115 : Sounds like you are talking about France spends money they dont have claims to be excepting but is the most racist country in Europe.
119 ME AVN FAN : nonsense. France has its share of racists, but in elections they get a similar percentage like their mates in other European countries.
120 Post contains links Braybuddy : Well, he must have been doing SOMETHING right: "Former American President Bill Clinton will earn £700,000 for just three speeches in London and Du
121 TheCol : I agree. Harper has done ok thus far. I think the environment issue is the only thing his government has screwed up on. I fully support the Afghanist
122 Boeing744 : Seems to be the trend. One other thing we can pick on him for is setting Kim Campbell up for failure. She could have been quite an effective PM if sh
123 WrenchBender : Sorry that was Diefenbaker that cancelled the Arrow Program, at the behest of the then MND George Peakes. Mulroney wasn't even involved in politics t
124 LTU932 : The all time worst ever leader of Germany: Adolf Hitler The worst ever leader of postwar Germany (counts also for West Germany before 1990): Gerhard S
125 TransIsland : Ahh... why not, after all, it's an election year: Lynden Oscar Pindling.
126 Mbj-11 : So I've heard, but how is he compared to Ingram or Christie?
127 TransIsland : Well, I did consider these two when I made my decision, didn't I?
128 Mbj-11 : I asked you a question how are they compared to him. Just curious to hear about Pindling
129 Post contains images L410Turbolet : Nonsense. Not that he wasn't a monster, war criminal and a merciless butcher but he certainly was not a leader of the "country" (or whatever was left
130 Zruda : yeah, Heydrich isnt really a good example. I did think about Gottwald on the second place.
131 TransIsland : I fear that due to possible repression I am not at liberty to speak my mind here.
132 FMAL : For Brazil, I could go on and on and on.....hard to define who has not been a bad leader. Maybe the last, actually good and well intentioned leader wa
133 Dw9115 : To show how big of a piece of sh*t the Clinton's are when they left the white house they stole items that belonged to the American people and were st
134 Aeroflot777 : Lenin or Stalin.... take your pick... Aeroflot777
135 Himmat01 : The worst leader we have ever had was V P Singh. The bugger changed the politics in India for ever and managed to divide Indians on basis of caste by
136 Sebolino : There are not the same type at all.
137 Bongodog1964 : As posted earlier Tony Benn was never PM, this was very fortunate as he was totaly off his head; a full blooded member of the aristocracy (Viscount S
138 Bwest : Horrible atrocities indeed. Yet other countries were doing the same things in Africa, but they got away with it and were very happy to see the intern
139 ME AVN FAN : Who was worse, Erich Honecker or Walter Ulbricht ? I just remember that when Erich Honecker became SED-chief, people spoke about a "relative liberali
140 PanHAM : yes, your relatives could come to East Germany from West Germany, East Germans still could not go to West Germany. "Liberalisation" in a Dictatorship
141 ME AVN FAN : That great people have weaknesses is not new in history.
142 Post contains images Klaus : No, it's not. Chruchtchev certainly brought a liberalization after the end of Stalins ultra-brutal reign. Ridiculous. I've never been a fan of Schrö
143 PanHAM : A dictatorship never ever is liberal, even when they paint the prison wall with flower decor. Liberal and dictatorship is a contradiction, alway has
144 Krushny : JL Borges, one of the best writers in Spanish of the last Century, had enormous admiration for Switzerland; he lived there for several years and neve
145 Post contains images Pelican : The myth about the "botched" unification does not become true if is repeated again and again. Sure he and his government made a lot of mistakes but t
146 Post contains images Pelican : That's news to me pelican
147 B747-437B : For all his faults, VP Singh broke the "rule" of the Congress/Gandhi dynasty far more effectively than Morarji did oh-so-briefly in the 70s. His gove
148 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : the change from Stalin to Chroushtshov for 100'000s of people meant the difference between life and death, between being free or in prison (for years
149 Columba : In my opinion Schröder was the worst chancellor Germany ever had after WWII while Schmidt was the best we ever had. Im a huge fan of Schmidt. Second
150 Columba : The military is not everything. Remember when Clinton was in office there was no real threat for the US. The cold war was over why spending so much m
151 CaptLockheed : Never PM - thank god! Even though he actually makes more sense now he's not a MP. Beleive it or not I actually think the guy actually beleives in dem
152 Rmcf : As I wasn't alive when Franco ruled Spain, I'll have to say Zapatero...what a stupid politician! Otherwise I suppose Franco is the worst leader in Spa
153 EWS : Tony Blaire, End Of.. Fu***ng Muppet.. Lew
154 Aeroflot777 : Didn't say they were... Both were horrible leaders in their own respective way, thats why I said take your pick. Aeroflot777
155 L410Turbolet : He was a joke. A really bad one. And a spineless coward. The real tragedy of my country is that we tend to create a whole mythology and legends (read
156 L410Turbolet : Klaus? I would expect you will say Tiso, or anyone 1948-1989 but Klaus? There certainly are negative things that could be said about Klaus, but going
157 Post contains images Klaus : What a load of nonsense! After Gorbachev withdrew the USSR's support for the suppression of democracy in the GDR, the citizens of the GDR toppled the
158 Post contains images LTU932 : Ulbricht laid the foundations, and Honecker just continued his work. Don't forget that while Honecker was in power, people could still be shot at the
159 ThePRGuy : Yeah and why the hell do you think that is?!?! Of recent years: John Major Useless
160 WildcatYXU : I don't consider the contemporary Slovakia a successor of WWII Slovakia, so Tiso is for me in same drawer as Heydrich (or Horthy for that matter, sin
161 L410Turbolet : A treason? Treason and cowardice was what Benes did in 1938 and Dubcek in 1968. With referendum we'd be most likely have a deadlocked, functionless f
162 ME AVN FAN : 2 questions inevitably result here : A) In what way did Mr Benes commit either treason or cowardice in 1938 ? and were his alternatives ? B) What was
163 WildcatYXU : I guess L410Turbolet means that he accepted the Munich treaty and didn't stand up to the Germans. Czechoslovakia had a well equipped army and it's ow
164 Krushny : In Prague there was a square dedicated to the "Glorious Czechoslovak Army" (not sure if it keeps the name today). People made a joke about the Glorio
165 ME AVN FAN : But would Czechoslovakia in 1938 have had ANY chance against Nazi-Germany ? A Nazi-Germany which could have attacked from three sides simultaneously
166 Post contains images RootsAir : uuuf another supporter of the PP. No wonder none of you like PSOE politicians! When they get their turn I will say Blocher or Merz. Then again I hope
167 Post contains images Banco : Given that the thread asked about "leader", it seems pretty daft for anyone British to pick a Prime Minister from the affluent (even in the 1970s) rec
168 ME AVN FAN : again, also they in the role of "Federal President" will NOT have political power in the way of a "political leader". Blocher since being Federal Cou
169 WildcatYXU : Well, in 1938, probably yes. No, without help from west definitely not.
170 Usair320 : I say GW Bush. In my country that my family is from I would have to say Musselini.(Italy)
171 Pelican : Yes the US of A had no war criminals (at least compared to Germany). But as soon as the FRG had jurisdiction for war criminals it started to prosecut
172 Post contains images NASCARAirforce : Figure two with one stone right here:
173 Zippyjet : However, there are some runner ups who are not as awful as "W" but, deserve their place in the bottom feeder categories of government, politics and l
174 Zippyjet : I forgot, dishonorable mention goes to former Speaker Newt Gingrich. I sure as hell hope he opts out of the Presidential race. After 8 years of W, we
175 L410Turbolet : Most likely no chance at all. Any help from the West would be a verbal one, maybe a vetoed resolution in the UNSC. However, the very least Dubcek cou
176 ME AVN FAN : while I understand your argument, what I have to say that Western media at the time thought that Messrs Dubcek and Svoboda by that "Protocol" had SAV
177 L410Turbolet : Benes was without any doubt a very skilled diplomat and his contribution towards gaining independence in 1918 was tremendous. But there is a huge dif
178 Post contains links Viaggiare : Quite the opposite is true. The Canal is being managed efficiently, reliably and safely under Panamanian control: 1) statistics have consistently rev
179 Krushny : Zapatero is not the leader of Spain! In the last 100 years we have had three heads of state - Alfonso XIII, Franco and Juan Carlos (5 if you count th
180 ME AVN FAN : While I have quite some respect for your King, he is a constitutional head of state, with the political leadership in the hands of the Prime Minister
181 Banco : That's true. However, Juan Carlos personally faced down a military coup in 1981, showing courage and real leadership. Since leadership is what this t
182 Krushny : When he was enthroned, he had the same powers as Franco. He was absolutely the national leader and his was the decision to relinquish some of his pow
183 ME AVN FAN : as a person he for sure DOES qualify. He of course is the "odd one out" among the constitutional monarchs as he to a good part tailored that constitu
184 PanHAM : Indeed. But you should have put that underneath your comments You are really naive. Both Russia and East Germany were broke. East Germany was broke s
185 CaptLockheed : I often think OC gets a bad press, he may have been a ruthless dictator but there werent many 'liberal democracies' around at the time, but he was of
186 Banco : He turned it down because if he'd taken it he would have been subject to the same constraints as Charles I, not because of any sense of propriety! Ha
187 LTU932 : I'd actually say Abel Pacheco (2002-2006). He was weak as president. He thought that with his granfatherly charm he could convince people to join his
188 L410Turbolet : How about the so called Grundlagenvertrag?
189 LTU932 : You're right, I stand corrected. I mixed up the facts on this. The GDR was recognised as a sovereign state by Germany, but it was never recognised as
190 PanHAM : The so called GDR was very German, in the bad "Prussian" sense, it was not a Democracy and never a Republic. It was de facto owned by the SED, which
191 Post contains images Pelican : What does this mean? pelican
192 LTU932 : I agree. But it was not just owned by the SED, but also by Moscow and the KPdSU (CPSU). After all, it was a vasall state and in the end, I think the
193 Prebennorholm : Denmark: King Christian IV (1596 - 1648).
194 ME AVN FAN : Neither Austria nor Switzerland nor Finland nor Ireland belonged to the Soviet Bloc or were communist but for sure had fully recognized the GDR as a
195 LTU932 : Yes, but did they recognise the GDR as a separate nation? Because West Germany never did, and probably never would have if the GDR still existed toda
196 PIA777 : In Pakistan Its a tie between Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Shareef. In US its dubya. PIA777
197 PIA777 : I thought slick willy did a good job. Apparently so do Monica. She is very overrated. PIA777
198 ME AVN FAN : YES, ABSOLUTELY so. And the same applies to all member-countries of the Arab League, with the exception of Saudi Arabia. In some Arab and African cou
199 PanHAM : They (East Germany) were the last defenders of the "Stechschritt" on German soil. (For our Anglo users - Stechschritt - refer to Monthy Python . Mini
200 Post contains images CaptLockheed : I think they are a little different, Mary was a woman with a mission. I think Englands Catholics were badly let down by the Pope during Elizabeth's r
201 ME AVN FAN : Everybody spoke about the BRD and the DDR. If you do not like this it is not my beer. I in 1968 still have seen maps produced in West Germany with th
202 PanHAM : By far not everyone. What I said is that a country called "BRD" never exsited, and that is a fact, regardless what "everybody said". What you have se
203 ME AVN FAN : the BRD was (is) that country just 20kms north of Zurich, that abbreviation for Bundesrepublik Deutschland became un-necessary after re-unification a
204 Viaggiare : Couldn't agree with you more on the fact that Pacheco dwelt in the realm of nothingness for four years. But at least the old man was able to maintain
205 PanHAM : Never was, believe me. The abbreviation for Bundesrepublik Deutschland was "Deutschland". When you drove from Switzerland to Germany, did you ever se
206 ME AVN FAN : it is less than 5% of the Swiss people who do so ! Most Swiss people vote either by going to the "urns" or now majority-wise simply by mail. The pape
207 LTU932 : I believe the Oder-Neiße-Linie wasn't fully recognised by Germany as its border with Poland until the Treaty of Warsaw was signed in 1970 and was ra
208 Post contains images Klaus : It was quickly limited to a very small number of perpetrators, with a clear disinterest in pursuing the matter beyond a few token cases. The systemat
209 ME AVN FAN : The name of the Foreign Ministry in German, converted into English letters is Eidgenoessisches Departement fuer auswaertige Angelegenheiten EDA + in
210 Post contains images Klaus : Minus any actual voting rights. But that may be more relevant to some than it is for others...!
211 ME AVN FAN : how much voting WEIGHT does a country with 7,6 mio have in the European parliament ?
212 Klaus : Smaller countries are actually at an advantage in relation; In the european council each country counts as one, regardless of size (although the size
213 Post contains links and images Allstarflyer : And industry involved in military production. After subjectively interpreting NSAM 263, right ? Educate yourself. I'd almost take Reagan w/Alzheimer'
214 Post contains images Baroque : I looked at the title and wondered what my answer would be. Of course the current woes with Johnny flood to the surface, but in a flash they are repl
215 MD11junkie : Juan Domingo Peron Fernando De la Rua Miguel Angel Juarez Celman Hector Julio Campora In that order. Gaston - The MD11junkie
216 US330 : A lesser known American President but definitely one of our worst, Franklin Pierce.
217 Klaus : The 9-11 terrorists were actually on the FBI's radar but the information was simply ignored. No amount of military funding would have compensated tha
218 Post contains images Allstarflyer : Your math doesn't compute. Observe. So you said earlier here that it was a botched job of intelligence, both on domestic and foreign fronts. The CIA
219 Stirling : Is there sunspots going on, or a nuclear fallout going on somewhere, cause every time I've tried posting this in the past 3 days, my DSL link goes dea
220 Klaus : The CIA is the foreign intelligence agency of the USA. While there was some "long range" intelligence which wasn't really concrete, the FBI had rathe
221 LHStarAlliance : Don´t forget Carlos Menem ...
222 MCIGuy : Jimmy Carter. filler
223 Post contains images MD11junkie : True! Add Carlos Menem to the list!
224 Baroque : I am not sure if you have access to the Insiders program on ABC, but that for 4 March had a cartoonists section where many of the Howard visualizatio
225 Post contains images MEA-707 : No dutch replies yet so I add my 2 cents... Our little country is blessed that at least in the last 60 years we didn't have war hawks or other real mo
226 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : -- I am sure you mixed up the thread. THIS here is NOT "the best ever leaders............... " -
227 QANTASFOREVER : I'd love to, but I have a meeting with an even bigger honcho tomorrow morning. Have fun with Rudd though - he loves trivia. Ask him the capital of Tu
228 Bill142 : And lets hope he does, simply to disprove the myth that the RBA never increases interest rates in an election year. Glenn Stevens talks the talk, but
229 Disruptivehair : My vote is for George W. Bush for worst ever.
230 N229NW : Well, isn't it about due time for another Jacobite Uprising led from exile then? I'd watch out for IAH777 if I were you...
231 Post contains links Baroque : I lack the qualifications to nominate him, but I can offer a mod intellectual set of arguments to support your nomination Dh. http://www.abc.net.au/r
232 Post contains images Banco : Good idea. It's been a while since we had the chance to duff someone up.
233 ME AVN FAN : Bush at least managed to become a national leader, while Osama only managed to be A) be a C.E.O. of a construction-company and B) the C.E.O. of an il
234 Post contains links and images F.pier : The worst Italian leader? Silvio Berlusconi I think everything in Italy went bad when he had power. I hope he will not come back. Ever.[Edited 2007-03
235 Banco : Worse than Mussolini? Really?
236 Post contains images Rammstein : Of course not, but Mussolini was too easy answer. Oh, well, also this was too easy
237 F.pier : Yes, because Mussolini was really bad, but I think he thought to be a good leader for the country,
238 Disruptivehair : Yikes, that's kind of scary. Luckily, Bush has less than two years left in office and he can't run again. The nightmare ends in January 2009.
239 PSA53 : I agree with you on the many strong points of Nixon,but any leader abusing the White House and the Constitution of the US, deserves the worst leader
240 Disruptivehair : Pretty much everything you said is true, but he had some good ideas and policies. It's a pity that Watergate happened; he might have been able to do
241 FlyDeltaJets87 : Eh, I don't think much could have helped Bob Dole in 1996. And usually those who vote for the independent candidate would have otherwise voted for th
242 Disruptivehair : It did. If those Nader votes in Florida had gone to Gore, Bush wouldn't have been able to steal the election. Nope, still not over it.
243 Baroque : Agreed MAF, as long as you add one word, Osama has not become a President YET. The point Jones is making is (in part) that extremists can be elected
244 Disruptivehair : I wouldn't worry too much about that; most Americans are reasonable and a lot of them don't actually believe the garbage he's troweling out. Bush has
245 Sebolino : After Mussolini, I agree. I was very surprised that he was elected the second time, after he showed his real face (corruption, control of the media .
246 ME AVN FAN : Saudi Arabia is a monarchy, at least STILL ! And his chance to take over in case of a downfall of the House of Sa'ud is almost zero ! -
247 Post contains images FlyDeltaJets87 : If Gore had carried his own state, Florida would have never been an issue.
248 Disruptivehair : Doesn't matter. Gore won Florida anyway; Bush and the Supreme Court stole it from him. There's no point in arguing about it because: * I am not going
249 Baroque : Probably true, but betting on some sorts of elections is not good on the percentages. I can remember when you could be laughed off the street for won
250 UALPHLCS : Here we go... it only took til reply number 4 and one of the usual suspects comes up with the typical answer. On the other hand... My compliments Fly
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