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The 1971 War  
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31573 posts, RR: 57
Posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2319 times:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Liberation_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1971

This was being discussed at Lunch today.
The 1971 War leading to the Creation of Bangladesh was a very small duration declared war.What happened to the Pakistani POVs from Eastern front.Did they return to Pakistan or stayed back as Bangladeshi Nationals.

regds
MEL


Think of the brighter side!
40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4504 posts, RR: 54
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2268 times:

I believe that Louis Mountbatten declared that the senseless split of East and West Pakistan would not even last a quarter of a century - and he was right if by less than 2 years.

I went to Bangladesh and Pakistan recently and was really, really impressed by Bangladesh and the Bengalis. Even though they lost 25 years of history under Pakistani rule, their economy is heading in the right direction, they have a democratic political system and free society, rich with arts, culture and music. Socially speaking they are way, way, way ahead of a certain country 1000 miles to the west with which they one shared a name.



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineTRVYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1369 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2242 times:

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 1):
Even though they lost 25 years of history under Pakistani rule, their economy is heading in the right direction, they have a democratic political system and free society, rich with arts, culture and music. Socially speaking they are way, way, way ahead of a certain country 1000 miles to the west with which they one shared a name.

Nice to hear an unbiased opinion from an outsider.  bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31573 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2202 times:

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 1):

I guess Since Bangladesh & India's state of East Bengal share the same Language.Im sure Tourism would be a big boost.
Hows its practically.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31573 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2175 times:



Found this Video on Youtube.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2152 times:

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 1):
senseless split of East and West Pakistan

This in fact leads to the question whether the division of Greater India, initiated by Ali Jinnah Khan, makes any sense at all. I mean, when I see that India has almost as many Muslims as either Pakistan or Bangladesh, the resulting idea is the one about a tripartite re-unification, with India being the core-nation and Delhi remaining the Federal Capital.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31573 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2147 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 5):
This in fact leads to the question whether the division of Greater India, initiated by Ali Jinnah Khan, makes any sense at all. I mean, when I see that India has almost as many Muslims as either Pakistan or Bangladesh, the resulting idea is the one about a tripartite re-unification, with India being the core-nation and Delhi remaining the Federal Capital.

In the Current seneraio things look very Difficult.With Indias Economy doing well.I don't think there would be any such moves from India.
The only outstanding Issue is the Recovery of POK & Ansai chin.

regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2146 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6):
POK

while the Pakistani regard the other side up there as IOK ! Suggest, India and Pakistan establish an independent Republic of Kashmir to get out of the deadlock. You might follow the ways of people like Messrs Schumann/DeGaulle and Adenauer and establish a "Subcontinental Economic Community" made up of Pakistan, Khashmir, Nepal, India and Bangladesh, to be converted later on into the "Subcontinental Union" the "SU" !  yes   yes 


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31573 posts, RR: 57
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2129 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 7):
You might follow the ways of people like Messrs Schumann/DeGaulle and Adenauer and establish a "Subcontinental Economic Community" made up of Pakistan, Khashmir, Nepal, India and Bangladesh, to be converted later on into the "Subcontinental Union" the "SU"

With the Current Mistrust.It looks a Dream.
Theres a Movie titled "1971" on its way.

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/pics-man...braves-it-all-in-1971/33308-8.html
regds
MEL

[Edited 2007-03-04 18:35:03]


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2175 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2080 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 7):
Suggest, India and Pakistan establish an independent Republic of Kashmir to get out of the deadlock.

There's no deadlock as such. We already control most of the territory of the state of Jammu and Kashmir. It would be nice to have the rest too, but we're not particularly bothered about it, certainly nowhere near as hysteric as the Pakis are about the part we have. Possession is 90% of the argument for ownership, and we already possess the territory. The current situation essentially amounts to Pakistan demanding various things and our saying "no". Rinse. Repeat.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 7):
You might follow the ways of people like Messrs Schumann/DeGaulle and Adenauer and establish a "Subcontinental Economic Community" made up of Pakistan, Khashmir, Nepal, India and Bangladesh, to be converted later on into the "Subcontinental Union" the "SU"

You're getting ahead of yourself here. India is still growing economically. The average PPP PCI is just ~$4000. Instead of some grandiose economic confederation, our focus for the next 20-30 years ought to be solely our own economic development. In any case, Kashmir is already part of the Indian economic system. The Indian currency is acceptable in Nepal. Sri Lanka has a free trade agreement with India. Bhutan is essentially a protectorate of India. Therefore, a majority of nations around us already have deep economic ties. As for the other two - Pakistan and Bangladesh - they opted out of India, so they're on their own to find their way forward.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineQueso From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2069 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Thread starter):
What happened to the Pakistani POVs from Eastern front.

I don't think so.

Quoting HAWK21M (Thread starter):
Did they return to Pakistan or stayed back as Bangladeshi Nationals.

I agree.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2027 times:

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 9):
growing economically. The average PPP PCI is just ~$4000. Instead of some grandiose economic confederation, our focus for the next 20-30 years ought to be solely our own economic development.

A) "still" growing ? Even to reach the average of countries like Egypt, the economy in India has to grow quite considerably, as it certainly WILL !
B) I do NOT speak about something "grandiose", and I do NOT speak about a confederation, but in the words of Mrs Thatcher about a lose union of independent countries.
C) "solely our own economic development" ? When I see that the convenience-shops of petrol-stations in the UAE are full with Indian goods of an enormous variety, when I see that Indian motor-car manufacturers are on the brink of moving into the European market, when I see Indian products into the Mediterranean area, then I have to say that such views have been rolled over by your own country, and that you need to open your views to developments to come, NOT now, but in the coming decades. The Montan-Union was established more than 50 years ago, so that to develop the E.U. of today needed half a century.
-
You remind me of a German employee who worked for some years in this office. I often had to tell him that he apparently forgot the SIZE both of his country as such and of the economy of his country and last but not least the enormous impact of that country onto its "neighbourhood" .
-


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31573 posts, RR: 57
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2020 times:

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 9):
India is still growing economically

The Economic Battle will determine a Nations Strength & INDIA is on the Right Track.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2004 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 12):
The Economic Battle will determine a Nations Strength & INDIA is on the Right Track.

-
I am quite sure about this. I trust in the business leaders of your country to to push politics into the right directions, when they feel it is time. Because, as Germany in postwar Europe has experienced, economic might results in some responsibility on one side and on the requirement for better general conditions AROUND the country on the other side. The Germans as far as I can see it NEVER were E.U.-freaks, neither were their politicians and business-leaders, but they gradually realized that open markets and open trafficways are of considerable importance. If you see that India (1030mio people) has a Gross-Social-Product PER CAPITA of 450 US$ , Egypt (75mio people) has one of 1'490 US$, Algeria (32mio people) one of 1'580 US$, Italy (58mio people) one of 20'160 US$, France (60mio people) one of 24'090 US$, Germany (83mio people) one of 25'120 US$, and Switzerland (7,6 mio people) one of 45'400 US$, then you may see that your country still has some years to go to reach the European levels, but due to the size of the country within a few years will have become a definite economic giant !


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31573 posts, RR: 57
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1992 times:

The Draw back for India would be Population Growth & Lack of Education for some.

regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1984 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 14):
The Draw back for India would be Population Growth & Lack of Education for some.

the problem with education programs and the fight against illiteracy is that such things take decades until yielding results. There are no shortcuts. The proplem with the population growth is a difficult one, as exactly progress in healthcare in general and specific treatments and the progress in regard to the infrastructure in many areas of the world has reduced the number of dying small children, and that inevitably leads to a heavy growth in population.


User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2175 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1978 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 11):
You remind me of a German employee who worked for some years in this office. I often had to tell him that he apparently forgot the SIZE both of his country as such and of the economy of his country and last but not least the enormous impact of that country onto its "neighbourhood" .
-

Spare me. That analogy is not realistic. There's no point in India trying to drag Pakistan and Bangladesh into an economic union at this time. You really are not very familiar with the SAARC, SAPTA ad SAFTA are you ? Or for that manner the long time disagreement on the MFN status that Pakistan does not accord us despite their WTO obligations to do so ? Or the long running Bangladeshi refusal to provide transit of Burmese oil into India, which finally made us decide to build a longer pipeline over our land ? How about them causing so much trouble to a $3 billion Tata investment that it ultimately got cancelled ?

The reality is the opposite of your assumption - both those nations find India's economic strength much too overwhelming from a trading perspective. Even with stunted economic relations with them, India has a huge trade surplus, because we have an industrial base significantly larger than their combined GDPs. They on the other hand, have an export base comprised significantly of low tech and primary products.

Combine with that the baggage of the past, and any attempt on our part to initiate economic talks descends into paranoia about economic hegemony on our part, which conveniently feeds into their domestic political issues, that find a convenient outlet in blaming India for everything, e.g. 'no economic opening until Kashmir is solved' or 'no trade until India stops preventing Bangladeshis crossing the border into India illegally', etc.

Those nations that do see it in their interest to have an economic relationship with us and judiciously do so will always be welcome. Sri Lanka and India don't have the most friendliest of ties, but the Lankans know their prosperity lies in India's prosperity, and are pragmatic about it. Same with Nepal, Bhutan and even Burma/Myanmar now. China will overtake the US next year as India's largest trade partner. The problem lies entirely with the two Muslim majority neghbours, and their domestic compulsions are not our problem. Therefore they can stay out.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1969 times:

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 16):
SAARC, SAPTA ad SAFTA

thanks for the info. Just looked them up. As such very positive things, even if progress of such ventures usually is slow because their always are some "objectors".
-

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 16):
MFN status that Pakistan does not accord us despite their WTO obligations to do so ?

most regrettable. Let's hope that they come round on that
-

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 16):
Or the long running Bangladeshi refusal to provide transit of Burmese oil into India, which finally made us decide to build a longer pipeline over our land ? How about them causing so much trouble to a $3 billion Tata investment that it ultimately got cancelled ?

What actually was the REASON for this refusal ?
-

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 16):
both those nations find India's economic strength much too overwhelming from a trading perspective. Even with stunted economic relations with them, India has a huge trade surplus, because we have an industrial base significantly larger than their combined GDPs. They on the other hand, have an export base comprised significantly of low tech and primary products.
--
Combine with that the baggage of the past, and any attempt on our part to initiate economic talks descends into paranoia about economic hegemony on our part, which conveniently feeds into their domestic political issues, that find a convenient outlet in blaming India for everything

-
Does NOT leave much else to say than "I seeeee" !  Yeah sure
-
OK, all correct, but I anyway did NOT have this year or next in mind, I mentioned DECADES before. And things may look better in some 10 or 20 years.


User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2175 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1962 times:

Cooperation is all fine, any time - tomorrow or 50 years later. It takes two sides to do it, not one. It is not realistic that India has to go out of its way as some perceived 'benevolent big brother'. Paradoxically, instead of doing good, it tends to cause the other side resentment, as if we're telling them what's good for them. It ends up becoming a local version of the kind of angst against the US these days. That's just not worth our time. There's no point in arguing India cannot put baggage aside - we have a thriving trade relationship with the Chinese regardless of the long border tension. Given the chance, any Indian company would happily fill the Pakistani/Bangladeshi markets with their wares. But in reality, nothing much is about to happen considering an Indian company proposed to invest $3 billion in Bangladesh (~4% of their GDP), and they declined it. If they decide some day that a tight economic relationship is in their interest, they can come forward. Until then, the idea is a lot of fluff.


India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31573 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1925 times:

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 18):
Given the chance, any Indian company would happily fill the Pakistani/Bangladeshi markets with their wares. But in reality

Remember the Ban on Movies of Indian Film Industry in Pakistan  Smile

regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineBravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1912 times:

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 1):
Socially speaking they are way, way, way ahead of a certain country 1000 miles to the west with which they one shared a name.

huh!!
So you visited Pakistan?? I have no problems, in fact I cherrish the progress of Bangladesh but I sense some real anti something feeling there, to the point of being outright lying. So I would only ask you to elaborate.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6):
The only outstanding Issue is the Recovery of POK & Ansai chin.

 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 
Thanks for the laugh.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 8):
Theres a Movie titled "1971" on its way.

 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 
Here we go again....

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 8):
With the Current Mistrust.It looks a Dream.

The only thing you and I could possibly agree on.

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 9):
It would be nice to have the rest too

 rotfl 
Dream on!!

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 9):
but we're not particularly bothered about it, certainly nowhere near as hysteric as the Pakis are about the part we have.

Of course you are not, as long as you can supress their right of self determination. Of course you wouldn't be bothered unlike someone like me who grew up in the area with the highest percentage of Kashmiries outside Kashmir and who know how they make a mockery of the so called LOC, who have their families split over. You in India could only possibly be concerned about the territory, forget the people. I say enjoy it while it lasts.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 12):
The Economic Battle will determine a Nations Strength & INDIA is on the Right Track.

 rotfl 
You really wanna know the reality about what I think of all this, I don't have enough time right now, I'll try to put the brutal truth to you soon.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 19):
Remember the Ban on Movies of Indian Film Industry in Pakistan

Oh great memory you have there!!!
I bet its not smart enough to rememeber the decade old ban (not sure of the status right now) of anything to do with Pakistan over the airwaves. Including the tranmitters they installed to block the tranmission. I bet you are not smart enough to forget the ban on overflights. Geez I think I am wasting my time here.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31573 posts, RR: 57
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1883 times:

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 20):
bet its not smart enough to rememeber the decade old ban (not sure of the status right now) of anything to do with Pakistan over the airwaves. Including the tranmitters they installed to block the tranmission. I bet you are not smart enough to forget the ban on overflights

The Movie Ban still Exists. 
Remember what caused the Overflight Ban.An Attack on Parliment.
Amazingly yesterday a Pakistani Cusine Festival was held in Kolkata.You should have listened to what the chef said.  

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 20):
Of course you are not, as long as you can supress their right of self determination

What about the Democratic right of people in Our Neighbour country.The Dictator still rules  

Currently The Situation out here is India is NOT Pakistan Centric & there are more Important Issues that worry about One nation.Unlike Pakistan thats totally India Centric.

regds
MEL

[Edited 2007-03-08 04:26:34]


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31573 posts, RR: 57
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1841 times:


There was a Programme Telcast on CNN/IBM today evening discussing the same plight of those Indian POVs not yet returned with their Family members & a few policical leaders.

Sad case.
http://www.nowrunning.com/broadband/?o=t&movieNo=3769&it=1568

After a war ends POVs should be returned.

regds
MEL

[Edited 2007-03-09 15:36:28]


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1833 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 22):
After a war ends POVs should be returned.

but, how long were those POWs of 1971 actually held captives ?


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31573 posts, RR: 57
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 23):
but, how long were those POWs of 1971 actually held captives

There were 54 who were not returned.Witnesses/sources also claim they were captured.The Problem was that the Govt of the other side dismisses they exist.However there are many letters smuggled out,reports by other prisioners etc to the contarary.
When India returned 95,000 Pakistani POVs.These Indian POVs were not returned.The plight of those Families are sad as they do not have access to the truth.
http://www.1971thefilm.com/
The Film is a tribute to those Heros.It has some Evidence in print too.read it.

regds
MEL

[Edited 2007-03-09 16:17:46]


Think of the brighter side!
25 Post contains images TRVYYZ : I think we made the mistake here. We shouldn't have returned their's before getting ours. I bet we can't trust "your neigbouring country". You don't
26 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : horrible, very simply horrible. But what possibly IS to be taken into account that they died AFTER having been captured. I do NOT dare to venture int
27 Bravo45 : REALLY!!!!!!! Now also let me know WHICH ban went into effect first and what is your excellent source for the above statement. lol OMG!!! I take my p
28 Bravo45 : Not really sure about that. But probably Pakistanis can be more satisfied for being Pakistanis with a judiciary even if it is exactly the way this st
29 TRVYYZ : From where did you get this story. It was your compatriots(not referring to your current flag, but the green one in your heart) who arrived in PIA in
30 Post contains images HAWK21M : When People have nothing to Contribute they stay away Jawad bhai.....You are living in a dream.By stating stories that were never the truth Does not
31 Post contains images Bravo45 : Well Mel brother, at least you can't have it both ways; staying away and centric. Stories are what your fellow countryman currently in Canada above r
32 TRVYYZ : I checked the BBC links and you story is completely off. But if it makes you feel better, you are entitled to live in your paradise of dreams. Before
33 ME AVN FAN : I have not yet been in either one, but I can tell you what the general thing is, conveyed by journalists and writers and economists. There general vi
34 Post contains links BarfBag : That is pretty accurate. Until the mid 1990s Pakistan had a higher per capita income than India. Fewer people, fertile lands (they got the bulk of th
35 Post contains images HAWK21M : Thats the Problem Most are India centric yet cannot debate facts If the POV story sounds alien to you.Its you that has to brush up with history Jawad
36 ME AVN FAN : it is not exactly easy to determine to what extent Pakistan really is "focused" onto the Kashmir matter. When looking into the WEBsites of English la
37 Airxliban : Indeed I did visit Pakistan. As for the elaboration, I found that Bangladesh was ahead of Pakistan socially and I observed the following in Banglades
38 Post contains links HAWK21M : Interesting link to 1971 Newspapers regds MEL
39 Post contains images Comorin : You forgot to mention falling deathly ill at the airport - the Supreme Sacrifice !
40 HAWK21M : Looks like the Foreign Ministers will be raising the 54 POVs missing issue again. regds MEL
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