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Careers In Finance?  
User currently offlineSpeedbird747BA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1406 times:

So I was wondering if person A pursued a career in say, investment banking, in Europe, say Switzerland or Norway, and person A was fresh out of college, what would his/her career prospects be? Would they be able to get on a reputable firm, and would they make sufficient money to live comfortably?

What other careers are there in finance? where there is a good job ooutlook ( preferably in Europe, Australia, or other well developed soceitys), and a decent amount of money?


Thanks in advance for your help. Im particlarly looking forward to a response from AeroWesty, hes quite knowledgable in all this... Werent you a financial adviser at one point Westy?



Cheers,
Kyle

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSteve6666 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 411 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1378 times:

Short answers.

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Thread starter):
person A was fresh out of college, what would his/her career prospects be?

Very good, but you need to have gone to a decent university to get into a good iBank.

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Thread starter):
and would they make sufficient money to live comfortably?

Very much so.

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Thread starter):

What other careers are there in finance?

Accounting, Private Equity, and aspects of both Management Consultancy and Law can be heavily financial. Also bear in mind that the various activities of an investment bank (e.g. Corporate Finance, Sales/Trading) are very different from each other.

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Thread starter):
where there is a good job ooutlook

At the moment, pretty much all over.

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Thread starter):
and a decent amount of money

If you're working in investment banking, that's really not an issue.



eu nasci ha dez mil anos atras, e nao tem nada nesse mundo que eu nao saiba demais
User currently offlineSpeedbird747BA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1378 times:

Quoting Steve6666 (Reply 1):
Very good, but you need to have gone to a decent university to get into a good iBank.

Any suggestions? Huron American University in London (or something like that...) University of Florida?

Thanks for it.

Chjeers,
Kyle


User currently offlineA332 From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 1644 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1373 times:

You're young... combine your education prospects in that field with some practical experience on the front-lines of any large bank and work your way up...  Smile


Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
User currently offlineSpeedbird747BA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1370 times:

Quoting A332 (Reply 3):
You're young...

Thats the thing.....I know Im young, and maybe Im paranoid, but i never think there will be enough time...I mean I want to be young and enjoy a comfy life, and if I spend like 10 years after college doin that, Ill be 32 and old will be almost here.


Cheers,
kyle


User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1363 times:

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 4):
I'll be 32 and old will be almost here.

Oh fuck. I'm almost a coffin dodger by that standard.  Smile


User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1344 times:

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 2):
Any suggestions?

Yeah - an Ivy League school or its equivalent in Europe. While clearly, you wouldn't be shut out from any job offers from other schools, listening to the current Dartmouth seniors talk about the jobs they've been offered is simply amazing. Basically, if you can get into an Ivy League school, you're going to be set for life.


User currently offlineSpeedbird747BA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1340 times:

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 6):
Yeah - an Ivy League school or its equivalent in Europe. While clearly, you wouldn't be shut out from any job offers from other schools, listening to the current Dartmouth seniors talk about the jobs they've been offered is simply amazing. Basically, if you can get into an Ivy League school, you're going to be set for life.

Well that sucks for me, because Im not going to an Ivy League school. UF is a good school.

Cheers,
Kyle


User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1338 times:

Speedbird,

My husband is an accountant (BS and BA in finance) and he is working on his MBA (finishes in a year) and then his CPA. He is currently Manager of Financial and Operational Analysis. If you need any guidance or help, holler. One thing I do know is there is a glut in the market for finance people. You can pretty much write your own ticket.

Let me know, anyway.

Bill



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1314 times:

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 7):
Well that sucks for me, because Im not going to an Ivy League school. UF is a good school.

I don't know a ton about UF, but I think that in general, one of the biggest assets that you can take advantage of are a school's alumni. Most alums will go out of their way to hire students from their alma mater, so wherever you end up, it's something to definitely think about!


User currently offlineACB777 From Canada, joined Sep 2003, 350 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1298 times:

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 6):
Yeah - an Ivy League school or its equivalent in Europe. While clearly, you wouldn't be shut out from any job offers from other schools, listening to the current Dartmouth seniors talk about the jobs they've been offered is simply amazing. Basically, if you can get into an Ivy League school, you're going to be set for life.

I have some questions as well about finance careers. Right now I'm a science student at University of British Columbia in Vancouver Canada. I'm thinking about switching to a business program because a business degree is better than a science one. With a B.Comm degree from UBC, can I get a job as an investment banker right away? How much does it pay? I know an investment advisor at a Vancouver HSBC branch who makes about $300,000 Canadian per year (more than enough!).

Another alternative is to finish my science degree and then apply for an MBA at an IVY league American school. What else do they look for besides GPA and GMAT score? I'm thinking about writing the GMAT this summer even though I'm in first year. What were all your experiences with the GMAT? The math section (from the books I've read) seems very easy for me, but I'm not so sure about the writing section.

What are some other good non IVY league American business schools that will pay about $90,000 US as a starting salary? I want to graduate from a prestigious school and get a good job right away.


User currently offlineBAGoldEx From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1284 times:

If you are going to UF, my rec is to think of a more plausible career choice. The top firms(Goldman, Morgan, Bear Sterns, Lazard, etc) have no interest in anyone not coming from a top national college. My roommate from Harvard is a second year analyst at Morgan Stanley and according to him the most represented schools are Harvard, Penn, Stanford Yale, U of Chicago, Princeton, Dartmouth and Cornell. If you got into UF doing your best work, then you definitely don't have it to be playing in the ibanking arena. I wish I could give you more hope, but someone who has not demonstrated superior academic achievement is too much of a liability for any reputable firm.

User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4022 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1256 times:

Quoting BAGoldEx (Reply 11):
If you got into UF doing your best work, then you definitely don't have it to be playing in the ibanking arena. I wish I could give you more hope, but someone who has not demonstrated superior academic achievement is too much of a liability for any reputable firm.

So you automatically assume that because he went to UF he is not "Ivy material"? Never for once did you ponder the possibility that not everyone can actually afford to go to Harvard?

Your sentence as a whole is probably the most arrogant statement I have ever seen expressed in this forum.

Quoting ACB777 (Reply 10):
What were all your experiences with the GMAT? The math section (from the books I've read) seems very easy for me, but I'm not so sure about the writing section.

The math section is pretty easy if you practice it for a bit (time is the key issue, although during my actual GMAT exam I rushed a bit through it and finished 25 minutes before the deadline - maybe I could have gotten a bit higher score if i just took my time). The verbal section is a bit more tricky (specially for non-native speakers) but there are a few good books that basically tell you about all the different types of questions that are quite useful - Kaplan's GMAT 800 worked for me.



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineSQuared From Canada, joined May 2005, 387 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1250 times:

Quoting ACB777 (Reply 10):

Yes, it is possible to get a job in iBanking with a BComm from UBC. Although the school doesn't have the same pull as Rotmans, Schulich or Queen's, UBC still has a respectable business school. Of course, don't expect to be working at Goldman Sachs or JP Morgan. What's more likely is that you would end up as an analyst at the investment arm of one of the Big Five Banks in Toronto. There is an expectation however that you will eventually get your MBA.

iBanking jobs pay well, but they hold no appeal for me (I'm a finance major). Depending on the area of expertise, the work schedule can be around 80-100 hours a week, making family life very difficult, if not impossible.


User currently offlineSpeedbird747BA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1248 times:

Quoting BAGoldEx (Reply 11):
If you are going to UF, my rec is to think of a more plausible career choice. The top firms(Goldman, Morgan, Bear Sterns, Lazard, etc) have no interest in anyone not coming from a top national college. My roommate from Harvard is a second year analyst at Morgan Stanley and according to him the most represented schools are Harvard, Penn, Stanford Yale, U of Chicago, Princeton, Dartmouth and Cornell. If you got into UF doing your best work, then you definitely don't have it to be playing in the ibanking arena. I wish I could give you more hope, but someone who has not demonstrated superior academic achievement is too much of a liability for any reputable firm.

Of course you do realize that to even be considered by UF, you have to have like at least a 4.5 ( I have a friend who was defferred but eventually accepted with a 4.5, 8 APs, ad extre-curriculars out the wazoo), 6 APs, and alot of extra-curriculars. UF is a hard school to get into, and their Warrington College of Business is very good. Besides, if I did good in UF, I could go to graduate school at U of Chicago or something like that. I dont intend on leaving college with anything less than a Masters.


Cheers,
Kyle

EDIT: spelling

[Edited 2007-03-06 13:34:02]

User currently offlineEric From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1234 times:

If you want to understand the 'game' better I suggest you buy "Monkey Business", it will tell you alot of the information that you need to know. Another good reference guide (as it will help you for interviews, etc...) is Vault Guide to Investment Banking.

Some info/pointers:


-When entering an IB you will enter into the Analyst position - these are slave jobs that pays about US$90K plus sign-on and performance bonus.

-Having done an MBA will get you on the Associate programs - there are less jobs thus more fierce competition.

The big banks in the US will, as a rule of thumb, only recruit from universities they target. I.e. are they at your career day's then you stand a chance. If not, you still have a chance but will need to prove why you are 'good enough'.

In the US, they will mainly go to Ivy's (the big brand banks) and in the UK they will recruit (undergrad) from the top Russell Group schools. In the UK; LSE, Edinburgh, King's, Manchester, Bristol, London Business School, Imperial, maybe St. Andrew's and a few more.

Like a previous poster mentioned, alumni gives a good indication.

In your CV:

Do not be shy to brag about how great you are in some forms.
Do list accomplishments which proves individuality, group abilities, leadership and hopefully something different.
International and cultural understanding are good points to include.
You need a high GPA, if not 3.9-4.0

If you go through, you usually have to sit aptitude tests - do try these out on websites before doing the test.

I would recommend you to apply to foreign banks (check out European Banks, a search for IB at Wikipedia will give a good list of Asian, European and African banks).

Do keep in mind that the deadlines start closing from mid-August this summer until late September.


Like I said, read 'Monkey Business' (if you do not fancy a career within IB, it is still a good read) - it will tell you alot of information and also include more guidance as what to do/say.


User currently offlineRotate From Switzerland, joined Feb 2003, 1491 posts, RR: 16
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1229 times:

Quoting Steve6666 (Reply 1):
Very good, but you need to have gone to a decent university to get into a good iBank.

Not true at all .... , after school I went directly to one of the bigplayers in IB .... - no problem at all. It is of course not possibel in any aerea. In terms of trading&sales (EQ, Bonds or Currencies) you dont need universtity .... , different story in M&A.
I changed jobs 2 years ago, going from the bigplayer to a smaller niche player, after being for 10 years at the same place. At the latest stage I was responsibel for a team of 15 Equitytraders and responsibel for the whole EQ Nostro Positions within Switzerland. I had superduper Students from the UK and France in my team , all only some 3-5 years younger than me and they did what I told them. Never in my career I had a disadvantage for being not at university .....
So believe - its not a must ....

Robin



ABC
User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1215 times:

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 12):
Never for once did you ponder the possibility that not everyone can actually afford to go to Harvard?

Ivy League schools on the whole are incredibly generous with their financial aid packages. Not being able to afford it isn't much of an excuse these days.

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 14):
UF is a hard school to get into, and their Warrington College of Business is very good. Besides, if I did good in UF, I could go to graduate school at U of Chicago or something like that. I dont intend on leaving college with anything less than a Masters.

The sad part about the situation is that regardless of the actual quality of education received, it's the whole name factor that really plays the biggest role in whether or not you get a job. It's entirely possible that the education you get at UF would be just as good as what you would have at an Ivy League school, but when one diploma says "Princeton" and the other "University of Florida," that's where the difference comes in. Frustrating, yes, but entirely true for the most part.


User currently offlineUS330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3871 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1209 times:

As someone who currently attends an Ivy League school, I can confirm Cory6188's statement about Ivy League schools being generous with their financial aid packages. As most Ivy League schools have rather large endowments (Harvard, Yale, and Princeton alone have a combined endowment of just over $50 billion), they can afford to be leaders in the field. Just last year, Harvard and Princeton led the push to increase financial aid awards to middle class students (families who are making between 40k and 100k per year), which is the growing trend amongst private universities.

The name-brand university factor pertains mainly to the amount of "leeway" a potential recruit for a financial firm is given. Most of the big names recruit the name-brand universities because they are looking for the best and the brightest students, regardless of their major. While at schools like Florida you almost have to have a 4.0 and major and finance or another econ related field just to get "noticed," at an ivy league school you could make between a 3.2 and a 4.0, major in any liberal arts discipline, possess no finance background and still get an interview. Wall Street these days is very high on the general skill set a liberal arts background provides, and, thus, most top firms invest heavily in training programs for their newly hired analysts because they realize how great the potential payoffs are for the firms. I've heard stories of kids majoring in international relations saying that within six months of employment, their knowledge base of financial field was equal to that of their coworkers who had gone to business school as an undergrad.


User currently offlineSpeedbird747BA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1196 times:

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 17):
The sad part about the situation is that regardless of the actual quality of education received, it's the whole name factor that really plays the biggest role in whether or not you get a job. It's entirely possible that the education you get at UF would be just as good as what you would have at an Ivy League school, but when one diploma says "Princeton" and the other "University of Florida," that's where the difference comes in. Frustrating, yes, but entirely true for the most part.

Yeah, that sucks.

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 17):
Ivy League schools on the whole are incredibly generous with their financial aid packages. Not being able to afford it isn't much of an excuse these days.

Oh, its just that I dont wanna go to an Ivy League school. UF has good academics, but it also has good athletics, tons of people, and its the #2 party school in the country.  Wink  Big grin

Quoting US330 (Reply 18):
(families who are making between 40k and 100k per year)

We make more than that. plus, Im a white male. affirmative actions a bitch.


Other than all that, while Im at UF I intend to have a double major.....


Cheers,
kyle


User currently offlineDw9115 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 449 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1181 times:

If you want to go to a EXTREMELY good business i.e. finance school then look at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania. Easily the best business school in the world. Here is the link http://www.wharton.upenn.edu/

User currently offlineZone1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1035 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1160 times:

Another option is to either do engineering or math. Plenty of iBanks hire so called "quants" that do derivative pricing and develop trading models to hedge portfolios. One of my friend's dad was an engineer and is now working at Citi in their fixed income derivatives division. Some colleges also offer masters in quantitative finance. You will get less money than an associate at an iBank as a quant, but you will also get to have a home life. This past summer I was doing research at Harvard and hung out with some people that just started in iBanking. They hated it because they had no free time, and questioned why they even had an apartment because they were always at the office. I suppose it would be a great job for maybe 5 years to sock away a nest egg, and then take a less stressful job.

I am a big fan of going with the engineering or math route because it doesn't tie you down to any one career path. And all your possible career paths are fairly lucrative. Anyway the best managers are engineers... Jack Welch to name one. Also don't give up just because you aren't going to be at an Ivy. Some people I knew from this summer didn't graduate from Ivies and were still in iBanking. In fact, some graduated from small schools that probably many people on this board have never heard of.



/// U N I T E D
User currently offlineSpeedbird747BA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1155 times:

Quoting Zone1 (Reply 21):
This past summer I was doing research at Harvard and hung out with some people that just started in iBanking. They hated it because they had no free time, and questioned why they even had an apartment because they were always at the office.

Do Ibankers really have to work that much? I mean, really now, thats quite alot of work.

Cheers,
Kyle


User currently offlineUS330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3871 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1143 times:

Technically, affirmative action doesn't apply to private universities. From what I understand, affirmative action is much more common at larger universities which use formulas as the main determinant of admissions, with each attribute, whether it be race, religion, gpa, sat, extracurricular position etc., having a set point value (as demonstrated by the University of Michigan lawsuit). At smaller private universities and colleges (most have an undergraduate student body of under 10,000), the admissions policies are less of a numbers game and more based around the individual preferences of the admissions committee. The guideline/phrasing that one could say replaces "affirmative action" is "diversity" and wanting a "well-balanced and well-rounded student body."

User currently offlineZone1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1035 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1138 times:

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 22):

Do Ibankers really have to work that much? I mean, really now, thats quite alot of work.

Cheers,
Kyle

No I banker will be working a 40 hour work week. I knew someone from MIT that got a summer internship at Deutche Bank in Hong Kong. She was working upwards of 60 hours a week, but it did have some perks. They would take the interns out for drinks after work pretty much every night. They would also take them out on the Deutche Bank yacht around the harbor.



/// U N I T E D
25 Post contains links Melpax : What about completing a graduate program with your local tax authority? Quite a few of the grads where I work usually spend 2-3 years working with us,
26 Post contains images Disruptivehair : Yale wasn't generous enough for me to afford to go there.
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