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Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP  
User currently offlinePilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2212 times:

i just tried to log onto youtube, and when i went to www.youtube.com it told me that the website had been blocked by the new temp law, due to the extensive mocking and insults that were uploaded by an aparent Greek person. I never got a chance to view the video, but apparently people who did say that a certain person insults the Turkish culture extensively and makes crude, racist remarks against Ataturk, the founder of the Turkish Republic.....

What are your views on cyber racism?


The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTWISTEDWHISPER From Sweden, joined Aug 2003, 711 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2195 times:

Quoting Pilotaydin (Thread starter):
What are your views on cyber racism?

Here's my view: Another reason why Turkey does not belong within the EU.  duck 



Read between the lines.
User currently offlineAAce24 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 849 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2187 times:

So ONE person makes a questionable video and they block everybody from using the site?

Why not just remove the video?? Theres no need to block the whole site.


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8763 posts, RR: 42
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2173 times:

Quoting Pilotaydin (Thread starter):
What are your views on cyber racism?

It's worse than "conventional" racism because it can spread much faster and a near infinite amount of people can be addressed with very little effort. Of course, "insulting Turkishness" is a ridiculous nationalist/chauvinist article that enables censorship of basically everything, hence:

Quoting TWISTEDWHISPER (Reply 1):
Another reason why Turkey does not yet belong within the EU.

With that little word added, I completely agree. If such a sizeable portion of the population cannot live with a little mockery of Turkey, they indeed turn their country away from the EU. The EU was founded to overcome nationalist excesses and in the light of what happened to Hrant Dink and others, those are what many Turks must limit before joining the union.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlinePilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2146 times:

Quoting AAce24 (Reply 2):

as you probably know, youtube.com is not owned by turkey nor the turkish gov, so we can't remove something from youtube just like that

the reason why the government had it blocked was because people kept clicking it and watching it, and it was giving the person a high rating, and they didn't want this.....they also don't want young kids here to see this as there is a way to criticize people, but making fun of someone and an entire nation is seriously retarded in my opinion...

you don't think we belong in the EU because we are trying to preserve our national heritage, you would much rather people say WHATEVER they want, be it ill intended just so you can call yourself FREE and modern?

abusing freedom of speech is ridiculous, and letting people hide under that name is even more ridiculous...



The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlineAAce24 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 849 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2139 times:

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 4):
as you probably know, youtube.com is not owned by turkey nor the turkish gov, so we can't remove something from youtube just like that

But couldn't someone from the Turkish Government make a request to the YouTube admins to have it removed?


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2120 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 3):
With that little word added, I completely agree. If such a sizeable portion of the population cannot live with a little mockery of Turkey, they indeed turn their country away from the EU. The EU was founded to overcome nationalist excesses and in the light of what happened to Hrant Dink and others, those are what many Turks must limit before joining the union.

Yea maybe in 20 years or + but now the EU has to digest all members that have just joined ... and as you say thinks like
Hrant Dink murder can not happen in a EU nation ...

and don´t forget most EU citizens don´t want Turkey in the EU ...

Quoting AAce24 (Reply 5):

well if they can block www.youtube.com , they also could block just the video URL ...


User currently onlineFlyKev From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 1388 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2100 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

If you want to view you tube, just find a proxy server.
Real easy to setup, and will allow access to the site.
http://www.proxy4free.com/page1.html should help.

Kev.



The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8763 posts, RR: 42
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2079 times:

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 4):
you don't think we belong in the EU because we are trying to preserve our national heritage

No, it is because people openly sympathise with his murderer (white hats in Trabzon), because Orhan Pamuk can hardly leave his house anymore, because calling the Armenian genocide what it was got you into prison at least until recently and because "denigration of Turkishness", i.e. disagreement with nationalistic interests, is punishable by law.
I do definitely not object to admitting Turkey to the EU because the Turkish are proud of their country, I object because disagreement with that pride is punishable and gets some dissidents murdered.

But to give credit where credit is due, it is a good thing that at least some of the nationalists behind the murder of Hrant dink were arrested. Justice takes time, so we may later see what comes of this. It is also a good thing that the death penalty was abolished, transforming even the sentence against Abdullah Öcalan (not insinuating that you might not know who that is, Pilotaydin  Wink ) into a prison sentence.

So all in all, what I think is that the nationalist movement in Turkey still is too strong for the country to become a member of the EU. Obviously, reforms need time to take effect, I guess they will take a positive effect on the Turkish population in that respect.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2043 times:

Quoting Pilotaydin (Thread starter):
i just tried to log onto youtube, and when i went to www.youtube.com it told me that the website had been blocked by the new temp law, due to the extensive mocking and insults
What are your views on cyber racism?

-
The problem quite obviously is the reaction of the Turkish authorities to block a WEBsite just due to some anti-Turkish video placed somewhere. What if the author of that video had exactly THIS in mind ? To damage the interests of all Turks interested in "youtube" . You will always have some unfriendly unpolite and somewhat insulting material on the internet. But to react in the way, the Turkish authorities apparently have done, is wrong, is censorship, and is discriminatory against all others.  boggled   down   grumpy 
-

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 4):
the reason why the government had it blocked was because people kept clicking it and watching it, and it was giving the person a high rating, and they didn't want this....

what the Turkish government has done here is medieval censorship and discriminatory for all "producers" and "customers" except one single "author"

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 4):
.they also don't want young kids here to see this as there is a way to criticize people, but making fun of someone and an entire nation is seriously retarded in my opinion...

I expect Turkish people to react appropriately by NOT watching that video. What the government ought to have done is warning people about that embarassing video. Instead of this, they now make fun and mockery of their own nation, and such is as seriously retarded as anything
-

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 6):
maybe in 20 years or + but now the EU has to digest all members that have just joined ...

of course not now, but 20 years is rubbish, as Turkey under the present arrangments no longer is better off in regard to Europe than Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan, who in comparison to Turkey have the advantage to be in the Arab Leage at the same time, while Turkey only has Europe as viable option
-

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 6):
don´t forget most EU citizens don´t want Turkey in the EU ...

by that "logic" the MontanUnion/EEC/EU would never have started as in the 50ies a majority of NON-German Europeans did not want Germany to be inside "Europe". And the same applied to other EU-members of today.
-

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 4):
you don't think we belong in the EU because we are trying to preserve our national heritage, you would much rather people say WHATEVER they want, be it ill intended just so you can call yourself FREE and modern?

to put it quite the other way round, a European country does NOT block out a WEBsite just because one contribution is hostile in a way. What a European country WILL do under such circumstances is to contact YOUTUBE with a clear request to remove such a video immediately. I am sure, also Turkey now would and hopefully WILL succeed with such a request.
-


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2031 times:

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 4):
you don't think we belong in the EU because we are trying to preserve our national heritage

If your national heritage is so weak that it doesn't even survive just being mocked by someone, there's no point in defending it anyway.

Authoritarian rules like the law against any criticism of turkish society, policies or history present a picture of a deeply insecure and weak culture.

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 4):
you would much rather people say WHATEVER they want, be it ill intended just so you can call yourself FREE and modern?

Exactly. That's the deal.

A strong and sovereign nation and culture doesn't need to fear criticism, it can openly face it and improve itself if the criticism turns out to be warranted.


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8763 posts, RR: 42
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2026 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 9):
What a European country WILL do under such circumstances is to contact YOUTUBE with a clear request to remove such a video immediately.

Not quite, I'd say. I don't know the nature os that "anti-Turkish" video, it could be full outright slander and lies, it could be an immature teenager's attempt at getting his 15 minutes of fame or it could feature vast exaggerations based on select little bits of history. To be honest, I don't care much either. In any case, I seriously doubt that any non-narcissist government of an EU member nation (i.e. excluding Berlusconi's former government and the Kaczyński twins) would deem the video important enough to act against it. The internet is for porn full of slander as it is, some puny little video on YouTube would only gain considerable momentum if a government did something about it. Otherwise it would probably be out of sight quicker than you can say "boring".



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1998 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 11):
What a European country WILL do under such circumstances is to contact YOUTUBE with a clear request to remove such a video immediately.
--
Not quite, I'd say. I don't know the nature os that "anti-Turkish" video, it could be full outright slander and lies, it could be an immature teenager's attempt at getting his 15 minutes of fame or it could feature vast exaggerations

-
I frankly spoken do NOT have the slightest knowledge of what is on that video, and do NOT particularily care. What I KNOW however are the various, often extreme, sensitivities in the Mediterranean "basin" where such rubbish indeed can ignite heavy emotional outbursts. If in charge in Turkey, I for sure would contact and if needed even pressurize "youtube" even if regarding the matter as a minor tragedy and realizing that those at "youtube" would regard me as a bit a childish grumpy old git ! What the Turkish authorities show here is an embarassing extent of clumsiness !!
-

Quoting Aloges (Reply 11):
an EU member nation (i.e. excluding Berlusconi's f

here a list of some present & former European politicians who WOULD act accordingly for sure :
Silvio Berlusconi - former Prime Minister Italy
Christoph Blocher - Justice Minister Switzerland
Franz Josef Strauss - former Prime Minister of Bavaria
Herbert Wehner - former SPD politician of "fame"
Prince Philip -- husband of QEII
Mr Haider --- Austrian politician
Mr Koller -- former Justice Minister Switzerland
Mrs Thatcher -- former Prime Minister United Kingdom
Georges Pompidou -- former President France
-- just to name a few ---
-

Quoting Aloges (Reply 11):
gain considerable momentum if a government did something about it. Otherwise it would probably be out of sight quicker than you can say "boring".

THAT of course is a problem. A certain writer only got success with his book(s) thanks to a Fatwa which brought his boring things into the limelight !
-


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1977 times:

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 4):
you would much rather people say WHATEVER they want, be it ill intended just so you can call yourself FREE and modern?

What problem do you have with your countrymen being free, including having the freedom of expression, and the freedom to come to their own conclusions about criticism? What you're implying is that the Turkish people don't have the facility to determine what's parody or not, and I simply disagree with that conclusion. If they do, educate them, don't restrict them from it.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5569 posts, RR: 36
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1964 times:

The Turkish government makes a fool out of itself. This is absolutely ridiculous. It seems that in Turkey there is no freedom of press and speech. I only hope that the EU never ever accepts this country. They simply do not have the European understanding of democracy. Perhaps they could make an alliance with Iraq.

User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17822 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1958 times:

Quoting TWISTEDWHISPER (Reply 1):
Another reason why Turkey does not belong within the EU

Amen to that.

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 4):
the reason why the government had it blocked was because people kept clicking it and watching it, and it was giving the person a high rating

When will people LEARN, especially in this age of instant information transfer, that banning/restricting/fatwa-ing information is almost ALWAYS guaranteed to have the exact OPPOSITE effect.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1938 times:

Quoting ZRH (Reply 14):
the EU never ever accepts this country.

Turkey has made quite some progress in recent decades. But such episodes show that there still is some way to go !
-

Quoting ZRH (Reply 14):
an alliance with Iraq.

no communalities ! Except the Kurds -- and that hardly is a good basis.
-

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 4):
people kept clicking it and watching it

this shows that people were interested to watch it, whenever NOT out of agreeing. And wanted to know about it. So that, to hinder them from doing so is limiting their personal freedom of information
-

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
When will people LEARN, especially in this age of instant information transfer, that banning/restricting/fatwa-ing information is almost ALWAYS guaranteed to have the exact OPPOSITE effect.

-
I have seen a positive thing in Tunisia. The government of Abidine Ben-Ali, a person far away from REAL democracy, who in 2001 still had some WEBsites "restricted" (only accessible with a permit from the relevant ministry) in the meantime has dropped such things, so that things are much nicer now in his country. It is sad, that the Turkish government, in spite of having real democracy, has not yet learnt as much
-


User currently offlineEWS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1928 times:

Doesnt sound to good! But easily sorted with the proxies mentioned above.

Lew


User currently offlineMKEdude From South Korea, joined May 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1911 times:

Quoting TWISTEDWHISPER (Reply 1):
Quoting Pilotaydin (Thread starter):
What are your views on cyber racism?

Here's my view: Another reason why Turkey does not belong within the EU.

 checkmark 

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 4):
as you probably know, youtube.com is not owned by turkey nor the turkish gov, so we can't remove something from youtube just like that

the reason why the government had it blocked was because people kept clicking it and watching it, and it was giving the person a high rating, and they didn't want this.....they also don't want young kids here to see this as there is a way to criticize people, but making fun of someone and an entire nation is seriously retarded in my opinion...

you don't think we belong in the EU because we are trying to preserve our national heritage, you would much rather people say WHATEVER they want, be it ill intended just so you can call yourself FREE and modern?

abusing freedom of speech is ridiculous, and letting people hide under that name is even more ridiculous...

Proof that you just don't get it.

Freedom of speech is not about protecting what is popular, or protecting national pride. In fact it is the exact opposite.

Even without having seen the video in question I have no problem believing that it is just as childish and immature as you claim it to be. Nevertheless when you block that kind of speech what to you block next? Better yet, to whom do you surrender the authority to make those decisions on your behalf? And what master does that entity serve?

Living in a free society is not easy. It actually requires thick skin, and the patience to endure and tolerate those whom you would like to see strung up from a tree. Only those who are insecure about their own selves feel the need to lash out against those whose only weapons are words.

Freedom is about maturity, it is about being an adult. From this example it is clear that Turkey has a lot of growing up to do.



"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
User currently offlineAgill From Sweden, joined Feb 2004, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1900 times:

Quoting MKEdude (Reply 18):

Freedom of speech is not about protecting what is popular, or protecting national pride. In fact it is the exact opposite.

So true and so hard for people to understand.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1893 times:

Quoting Agill (Reply 19):
Freedom of speech is not about protecting what is popular, or protecting national pride. In fact it is the exact opposite.
--
So true and so hard for people to understand.

-
Embarassing in a way is that those authorities make a WEBsite in total liable for a single contribution.
-


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8763 posts, RR: 42
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1882 times:

Quoting MKEdude (Reply 18):
From this example it is clear that Turkey has a lot of growing up to do.

And growing up is what they are doing, however they have to balance the pace between what their population will tolerate and what the EU requires. It's a difficult thing to do, but necessary to maintain stability. Bear in mind that Turkey is a very secular country, and to be honest I am glad their "honour" is based on nationalism rather than on Islam. If the EU had a religiously fundamentalistic Turkey as its direct neighbour, then we'd truly need heaven to help us.
As it is these days, both the EU and Turkey need time before Turkey can join, the EU needs to stabilise after the latest admissions of 10+2 countries and Turkey needs to continue its reforms and let them take their effect. To agree that Turkey doesn't belong in the EU on grounds of "immaturity" and at the same time require them to do "a lot of growing up" is nonsense.

It is on the cultural, historic and even geographic levels that Turkey's qualification can be discussed. On one hand, there is considerable cultural exchange between the EU and Turkey, simply through all the immigrants that live here and are, often, half German (or Swedish, or Italian) and half Turkish in culture and/or in blood. That could enable the Turkish people to play the role of an ambassador between the EU and the Middle East, which would indeed be very helpful.
On the other hand, it is a fact that Europe is a predominantly Christian continent and Turkey is a predominantly Islamic cuntry. While that issue does not have to make an important difference as far as the secular aspects of a country/region are concerned, it very easily can make one. Whether we need to overcome it or can coexist "happily ever after" will remain a key question.

Lastly, if Turkey is admitted - who in Asia will ask next, and would the EU be able to cope with an admission of, while we're at it, Israel? Undoubtedly, an admission of Turkey would redefine the political meaning of the term "Europe".



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7966 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1869 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
When will people LEARN, especially in this age of instant information transfer, that banning/restricting/fatwa-ing information is almost ALWAYS guaranteed to have the exact OPPOSITE effect.

More so since the rest of the world can still "enjoy" all that mockery and all those insults the Turkish government wants to get rid of.
What's the point in keeping Turkish people from insults against Atatürk, the founder of your country? Your government reacts as if a website would be out of the world if they just censor their own country.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5569 posts, RR: 36
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1859 times:

I actually don't even understand why the Turkish government respond on such a stupid video. I am sure that such a thing in all European countries simply would be ignored, it wouldn't even be a topic. Our government has more serious problems than such a crap. What's the matter with the Turkish? Is there such a lack of self confidence?

User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1851 times:

Quoting TWISTEDWHISPER (Reply 1):
Here's my view: Another reason why Turkey does not ever belong within the EU.   

With the addition of that little word, I agree completely! What do I think of cyber-racism? That question has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Rather: What do people think of backward nationalistic fascism. Why does Turkey want to join the EU? We have *nothing* in common.

Nothing.

saludos

Asturias



Tonight we fly
25 Airfoilsguy : Racism does not bother me, I can always ignore the person and go on with my life. What would scare the shit out of me is when my government decided w
26 Post contains images ZRH :
27 Post contains links Fumanchewd : I just read the article on BBC and there is no mention of racist remarks. I could be wrong as I have not seen it, but perhaps it is nationalist remark
28 ThePRGuy : Absolutely ridiculous. If they cannot handle a slight mockery of their country - when the UK and US are happy for youtube to be live with constant moc
29 Post contains images YOWza : Um... they're not in the EU YOWza
30 Joffie : According to a free newspaper i read on the bus today, it says Nice one: "A Turkish court ordered that access to YouTube be blocked after a prosectuor
31 Post contains images L410Turbolet : Using censorship???
32 TWISTEDWHISPER : I don't know how it is in other (EU) countries... but in Sweden, this is forbidden. A government representative (or someone who acts on behalf of the
33 Pilotaydin : First off, a lot of you modern, perfectly functioning EU members need to hold your horses... you are judging Turkey based on our efforts to join the
34 JpetekYXMD80 : Since when is the EU a right and not a privilege? If your sentiments about this matter are anywhere near that of most Turks and the GOV (which is a g
35 Rammstein : What I find more alarming are the continuous insults written by Greeks against the Turks and vice-versa. Internet is not the real life, but gives a g
36 ME AVN FAN : - I think I quite well understand the emotional reaction of the Turkish government, but simply regard it as absolutely WRONG. The problem actually is
37 L410Turbolet : You can hardly have a "real" democracy with freedom of expression so severely restricted as is the case with this ridiculous "Turkishness Act". No ma
38 ME AVN FAN : - with "real democracy" I meant really democratic elections. But YES, with such extreme laws I would NOT feel to have a REAL democracy in the way of
39 Gigneil : Yes. Absolutely. In every possible case. NS
40 Post contains images N229NW : I'd really like to see Turkey in the EU, and attitudes such as that of Asturias do really border on the racist; however, events like this make it clea
41 Jafa39 : Hold on there boys and girls...was it not too long ago that "UnAmerican Activities" was/is a punishable offence? How about all the snooping on Poms th
42 HAWK21M : Sad Case. regds MEL
43 ME AVN FAN : the way in which that "pouncing" has taken place on here must have been frustrating for "PilotAydin" I fear ! While it was and is necessary to point
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