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User currently offlineDon81603 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 1185 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 974 times:

39 years ago today, the U.S. was spared from nuclear attack by a small mistake.

A Soviet Golf II class ballistic Missile submarine exploded and sank between 350 and 1000 miles west north west of Pearl Harbour, which was the intended target. When they attempted to launch, the missile propellant exploded, and blew a hole through the double hull in the bottom of the submarine, and it sank quickly. From here, the information gets muddied.

The actual site of the sinking is a closely guarded CIA secret, but reports put the wreck in a box from 27:00.00N 180:00:00 to 23:00:00N 163:00:00W The reason for keeping the location secret in 1968 was to prevent a mass panic during the height of the Cold War, there is no real reason to hide this information from the public now. At the time, 27N 180 was outside the maximum range of the missile being used, while 23N163W was well inside the range. From the 23N163W location, it was also with the range of Chinese Ballistic submarines, which had to be at an exact crossroads of longitude and lattitude.
The information surrounding this event vary depending on who you talk to or believe.

In the early to mid 1970's, the CIA and navy worked together and built the Glomar Explorer, to try and raise the hulk from a distance of just over 15,000 feet. The official CIA version states that just over 10% of the sub was salvaged, because the claw used to raise the submarine was damaged, and broke apart as the submarine was being raised. Yet during the SALT talks (Strategic Arms Limitation Talks) the US delegation, in a show of good faith and respect, returns the sub's bell to the Soviets. The bell was originally located behind the sail, which housed the missile tubes and therefore indicates more than 50% of the submarine was salvaged. Some informed sources say that 90-95% of the submarine was salvaged.

Some reports also state that once salvaged, 60 men were found crowded into compartments 1 and 2 (Torpedo and sonar rooms). If true, this indicates a hostile takeover of the sub, since under normal circumstances, there should have only been about a dozen men in these 2 rooms

There was also speculation that a collision with the US submarine Barb caused the sinking, and that the Soviets sank the USS Scorpion in the Atlantic a few weeks later in retaliation.

There is also speculation that a KGB or GRU special operations squad took control of the submarine and attempted the launch. It is known fact that just before sailing, 11 extra men arrived on board. These men were allegedly relpacement crew members, but the submarine was already over crewed (the normal compliment of a Golf II was 83, and the addition 11 brought the compliment to 98). As the Golf sailed on her patrol, she missed 2 crucial communications points. One when she crossed the International Date Line, and the other when she arrived on station for her patrol. Hence, when the Soviet navy came out flying with their Pacific fleet blasting the water with sonar, and filling the airwaves with demands for the submarine to comminicate, they headed for her patrol area, some 400 to 500 miles north of the northern most area of where the CIA says she sank.

Rather than continue this here, tons of information can be found at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golf_class_submarine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Jennifer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glomar_Explorer


Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
3 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 960 times:

Quoting Don81603 (Thread starter):
39 years ago today, the U.S. was spared from nuclear attack by a small mistake.

A Soviet Golf II class ballistic Missile submarine exploded and sank between 350 and 1000 miles west north west of Pearl Harbour, which was the intended target. When they attempted to launch, the missile propellant exploded, and blew a hole through the double hull in the bottom of the submarine, and it sank quickly. From here, the information gets muddied.

Uhm, I highly doubt the accuracy of this claim. The K-129 was lost in mysterious circumstances, but to claim that it was lost while conducting an attack on Pearl Harbour is dangerous.


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8702 posts, RR: 43
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 953 times:

Quoting Don81603 (Thread starter):
39 years ago today, the U.S. was spared from nuclear attack by a small mistake.

A Soviet Golf II class ballistic Missile submarine exploded and sank between 350 and 1000 miles west north west of Pearl Harbour, which was the intended target. When they attempted to launch, the missile propellant exploded

Padon? Where did you get that info? "Red Star Rogue"?

Quoting Don81603 (Thread starter):
The actual site of the sinking is a closely guarded CIA secret

Not quite, as you could have read in another Wikipedia article just a few clicks away from the ones you linked to.

Quote:
The American SOSUS array recorded "an isolated, single sound of an explosion or implosion, 'a good-sized bang'" (Craven, 2001, p.205), on that day. The sound originated from latitude 40 north and longitude 180, which is the exact location where K-129 would later be found, photographed, and salvaged.

Coincidentally, I've read the German translation of "Blind Man's Bluff: The Untold Story of American Submarine Espionage" which that article is partly based on from A to Z, it's highly recommendable.

Quoting Don81603 (Thread starter):
Some reports also state that once salvaged, 60 men were found crowded into compartments 1 and 2 (Torpedo and sonar rooms). If true, this indicates a hostile takeover of the sub, since under normal circumstances, there should have only been about a dozen men in these 2 rooms

It isn't uncommon for crewmen to be used as "human ballast" in emergencies, e.g. when water enters a sub aft of its centre of gravity it makes sense to send all available crew members as far ahead in the hull as possible. Another explanation would be that where they were found was the last dry compartment of the sub, their very last refuge.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 916 times:

Quoting Don81603 (Thread starter):
Glomar Explorer

Built 'by Howard Hughes' under the guise of oil drilling exploration

Quoting Don81603 (Thread starter):
returns the sub's bell to the Soviets.

Along with film showing that the recovered remains were properly re 'burried' at sea.


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