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London Olympics Cost Quadruples To £9bn.  
User currently offlineCaptLockheed From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 135 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1241 times:

Even for this country this is turning into a shambles....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6453575.stm

It's amusing to remember the people in this country that were slagging the Greeks off before Athens 2004.

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 43
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1239 times:

Being from the country that made money on the football world cup last year, I'll keep  ziplip . Big grin
__

Couldn't they simply do it on the cheap?

signed,
Donald Rumsfeld



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1209 times:

Quoting CaptLockheed (Thread starter):
Even for this country this is turning into a shambles....

Like you need an excuse to post another whinge.  Yeah sure

As I understand it, the major cost increases are for the infrastructure and re-generation for after the games are over, rather than the games themselves. The alternative would be to save the money and leave a wasteland behind.

That being the case, so what? It'd have to have been spent anyway.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineSv2008 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1205 times:

The area probably needs the investment, it's not wasted money.

The cost is high but it's a long term investment and it'll bring a lot of money into London long term.


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1205 times:

Quoting Sv2008 (Reply 3):
The area probably needs the investment

No probably about it. The Lea Valley isn't just one of the most deprived areas in Britain, it's one of the most deprived areas in Europe.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 43
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1196 times:

Quoting Banco (Reply 2):
As I understand it, the major cost increases are for the infrastructure and re-generation for after the games are over, rather than the games themselves.



Quoting Sv2008 (Reply 3):
The cost is high but it's a long term investment and it'll bring a lot of money into London long term.

OK, scratch reply 1!  Smile



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineCaptLockheed From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1192 times:

Quoting Banco (Reply 4):
No probably about it. The Lea Valley isn't just one of the most deprived areas in Britain, it's one of the most deprived areas in Europe.

Can we expect £9bn to be invested in Cornwall, South Yorskhire or South Wales soon? Or is it only tiny areas of London that deserve such wreckless spending?

And if the cost of such projects expand from £2bn to £9bn you consider this whinging?


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1189 times:

If you actually knew anything, you'd know that London and the south east actually subsidise the rest of the country to the tune of billions of pounds every year. Complaining that money is being spent on London is ridiculous.

And it's not that you are complaining about this, it's that all you ever do is bitch endlessly about everything. Grow up.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineCaptLockheed From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1176 times:

Quoting Banco (Reply 7):
If you actually knew anything, you'd know that London and the south east actually subsidise the rest of the country

And all of us in the regions are very grateful to you massa... yes, sir!


User currently offlineSv2008 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1175 times:

Quoting CaptLockheed (Reply 6):
Can we expect £9bn to be invested in Cornwall, South Yorskhire or South Wales soon? Or is it only tiny areas of London that deserve such wreckless spending?

There wouldn't be much of a return on that investment. There will in London, which is wealthy anyway, it'll attract even more investment and jobs, especially skilled jobs, and the south east/midlands in general, where much of the population is . This is why the £9Bn isn't ness. wasted - assuming they spend it well, it could have huge positive effects on the entire country for 10, 20, 30 years.

I suppose you could make an argument for having the games in Birmingham or Manchester, but as London is the capital, the games really need to be there.


User currently offlineCaptLockheed From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1169 times:

Quoting Sv2008 (Reply 9):

There wouldn't be much of a return on that investment. There will in London, which is wealthy anyway, it'll attract even more investment and jobs, especially skilled jobs, and the south east/midlands in general, where much of the population is



Quoting Sv2008 (Reply 9):
I suppose you could make an argument for having the games in Birmingham or Manchester, but as London is the capital, the games really need to be there.

So only invest in areas that don't realy need investment in them?

FYI i think the highest area of population is in the band that goes from Liverpool thru' Humberside


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1168 times:

Quoting CaptLockheed (Reply 8):
And all of us in the regions are very grateful to you massa... yes, sir!

Who's asking for gratitude? It's just a bit rich for net-recipients of national funds to be complaining that they aren't getting even more of the largesse from central government.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineCaptLockheed From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1158 times:

Quoting Banco (Reply 11):
It's just a bit rich for net-recipients of national funds to be complaining that they aren't getting even more of the largesse from central government.

I truly wish I was personally a net-recipient on national funds believe you me!  Smile


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1152 times:

Quoting CaptLockheed (Reply 12):
I truly wish I was personally a net-recipient on national funds believe you me!

Impossible to work out on an individual basis. It's not as simple as calculating your tax bill, you know.

But the point is that government is there to spend income across the country. That means that less affluent areas get more of it than richer ones. There's nothing remotely wrong with this, indeed, not doing so would be a bit peculiar. But what so often happens is that people look at things in isolation. You simply can't do that.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5525 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1151 times:

Quoting CaptLockheed (Thread starter):
Even for this country this is turning into a shambles....

Why is this a surprise? I am amazed the figure is that low. It'll rise more before it is all said and done. It is the cost of hosting the world in your backyard/back garden.



You can't cure stupid
User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20685 posts, RR: 62
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1145 times:

Excuse my disrupting the discussion of Marxism to discuss the Olympiad Londinium, however, I caught this bit in the article linked:

"The Department for Culture, Media and Sport later said the £2.4bn estimate from two years ago did not include costs for such items as regeneration and infrastructure - which the £9.3bn now does."

Wouldn't this have been predicted/considered at the time? What else may have been left out?



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1136 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 15):
Wouldn't this have been predicted/considered at the time?

Only to an extent. The bid included plans for re-generation, but the details about exactly what was to be done was not, and could not have been predicted at the time. There are other bits like that, for example, the security cost isn't something that can be reasonably budgeted for. Ultimately, if you are going to host the Olympics, you just have to pay what it takes to keep them safe.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20685 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1134 times:

Quoting Banco (Reply 16):
The bid included plans for re-generation, but the details about exactly what was to be done was not, and could not have been predicted at the time.

Then this should be of no surprise to anyone, and while the numbers not known, it was known that there would be additional costs down the road. Seems reasonable to me.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineSv2008 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1129 times:

Quoting CaptLockheed (Reply 10):

So only invest in areas that don't realy need investment in them?

You could invest in areas that really needed it, but you can't then make business invest in those areas.

Which is why they are concentrating on London so it'll be self sustaining.


User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3602 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1118 times:

[quote=Sv2008,reply=3]The area probably needs the investment, it's not wasted money.

The cost is high but it's a long term investment and it'll bring a lot of money into London long term.[/quote

Its a total and utter waste of money. Much that will be built for the Olympics will either be totally unsuitable for any further use, or will require much alteration. In addition many businesses have been forced to move out to make way fro the Olympic Park. Its really good, you lose your skilled job, because your employer moves away, and get two weeks employment as a burger flipper in August 2012.


User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7380 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1089 times:

Quoting Sv2008 (Reply 18):
You could invest in areas that really needed it, but you can't then make business invest in those areas.

Which is why they are concentrating on London so it'll be self sustaining

Self-perpetuating overheating South East England more, don't you mean? One of the main problems is that there is an over concentration of business in that area. Yes, London has deprived areas, but by building up more oppoortunties for companies to expand in the area means that more non-South East Englanders will be tempted to move to the area thereby further fuelling exhorbitant house prices.

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 14):
It'll rise more before it is all said and done

Most things pertaining to London invariably cost more than planned. Strangely enough, things outside London tend not have this unfortunate habit.

Quoting Sv2008 (Reply 9):
I suppose you could make an argument for having the games in Birmingham or Manchester, but as London is the capital, the games really need to be there.

Just like Barcelona is the capital of Spain, Atlanta is for the USA and Sydney for Australia? Wev'e experienced the crassness of the IOC declaring that Manchester "needs an international airport" and that there are not enough 5-star hotels for the IOC entourage, etc; funny, I thought the Olympics was about the compeititors and not about which corrupt person can spend longest in a 5 star hotel or that MAN filling 32 daily flights to Pago Pago?

Quoting Banco (Reply 13):
That means that less affluent areas get more of it than richer ones

I'm still waiting for the tram lines that were promised for the 2002 Commonwealth Games to be laid down. The cost's now risen by a couple of hundred million pounds so no chance of it being built. What ought to have happened is that we should have added an extra zero to the cost and undoubteldy money would be found


User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3602 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1051 times:

Perhaps the Government should recruit the team at BAA responsible for T5; this appears to be the only major public building project in the UK for the past half century to be on time and on budget.

Quoting David_itl (Reply 20):
Most things pertaining to London invariably cost more than planned. Strangely enough, things outside London tend not have this unfortunate habit.

I agrre with the rest of your post, but can't let this one pass by. remember the Scottish Parliament building ? the £40m budget ended up having the decimal point moved over one digit.


User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1046 times:

Like I said last July when everyone was celebrating London winning the bid

Quote:
The stadium will, no doubt, be a repeat of the fiasco that UK has with all new major building projects, just like the doomed Millennium Dome, the useless Wembley Stadium and the almost-bankrupt Euro Tunnel. Costs will be vastly under estimated. The project then goes over budget and then falls behind schedule, further escalating costs to finish it on time. Private enterprises then admit that they cannot meet the costs and have to be bailed out by the taxpayers.

I hate to say "I told you so!" when it came to escalating costs. Next, rain will stop play on the day.



MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1042 times:

Quoting David_itl (Reply 20):
Just like Barcelona is the capital of Spain, Atlanta is for the USA and Sydney for Australia? Wev'e experienced the crassness of the IOC declaring that Manchester "needs an international airport" and that there are not enough 5-star hotels for the IOC entourage, etc; funny, I thought the Olympics was about the compeititors and not about which corrupt person can spend longest in a 5 star hotel or that MAN filling 32 daily flights to Pago Pago?

No-one ever said that was fair. The IOC's attitude that a British Olympics were London or nowhere was outrageous for all the reasons you say. But it's still what we have to deal with.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineDisruptivehair From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2007, 598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1034 times:

Quoting CaptLockheed (Reply 8):
And all of us in the regions are very grateful to you massa... yes, sir!

HAHAHAHAHAH yeah, really.

Feels to me a lot of the time that we're subsidizing YOU, not the other way around. You get all the good stuff. You get all the glory. You get all the attention. You get all the jobs. What do we get up here in Yorkshire? Oh, yes...sh!t on with low wages and a cost of living that is not as high as London but is still pretty obscene. We do the cheap grunt work outside of London so that those City employees can make their fat bonuses. Remember, most of the people in the UK live outside of the M25. I wish more people would remember that. I hate London, and I resent it.


25 Disruptivehair : Especially since London has already hosted the Games TWICE. I was pleased when the Olympics were awarded to London...of course that was sullied by th
26 Scotron11 : I hate to say "I told you so!" when it came to escalating costs. Next, rain will stop play on the day. This is not the final bill, not by a long shot
27 QANTASforever : OH how this takes me back! I remember in the lead up to our Olympics in 2000 this sort of stuff was constantly in the news. And you know what? We all
28 Banco : I suspect it's going to be same in every city, in every country that wins an Olympic bid going forward. Hard to believe, bearing in mind how wonderfu
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