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Why No Las Vegas NBA Team  
User currently offlineDirkou From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 571 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2212 times:

Simple question: why no major NFL, NBA or any other major league team in Las Vegas?

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHPLASOps From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2210 times:

Two main reasons:

1) Las Vegas is a population largely based on transient folk who come from other cities and bring their sports loyalties with them. You might get people to buy a few tickets, but it's hard to get the population to really "support" the team.

2) Major leagues have an irrational fear of gambling. I call it irrational because the gambling that occurs is more regulated and safer from unnecessary influence than most forms of under the table gambling that occurs elsewhere throughout the US.


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2188 times:

I'd love to play in Vegas.

Signed, Packman Jones

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2775250


User currently offlineLHMARK From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2186 times:

Quoting KROC (Reply 2):
I'd love to play in Vegas.

Signed, Packman Jones

Dude, get it right. it's Pacman jones.

Sincerely,
Frogger



"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2182 times:

Quoting LHMARK (Reply 3):
Dude, get it right. it's Pacman jones.

Sincerely,
Frogger

Thanks Frogger. I saw that after I posted. I was worried Q-Bert was going to come and stomp a mudhole in my ass!  Sad


User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4466 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2179 times:

There are too many other things to do in Las Vegas than watch a professional sports team. Most people go to Vegas to do some gambling, enjoy the sun, lay by the pool and watch the pretty lights at night.

I've been to Vegas and it is a nice town. With that said, it is not on my top 10 list. Go see natural wonders etc.



"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2163 times:

Hey! We were a professionally paid team.

Signed,

The early 1990s UNLV Runnin' Rebels

Quoting Dirkou (Thread starter):
Simple question: why no major NFL, NBA or any other major league team in Las Vegas?

HPLASOps has it right with the transient population though I think that might be settleing down as more folks bail on California and move to Vegas. I still think it will be a long time before one of the major 4 leagues has a team there though given the lack of facilities but more so that still hard to capture audience.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2151 times:

Another issue is that compared to other U.S. cities Las Vegas has by far the highest percentage of people working nonstandard hours. That can make it difficult for many people to attend games or watch them on television.


"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26812 posts, RR: 75
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2146 times:

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 6):
I think that might be settleing down as more folks bail on California and move to Vegas.

Which explains why California's population is still growing  sarcastic 

Quoting PROSA (Reply 7):
Another issue is that compared to other U.S. cities Las Vegas has by far the highest percentage of people working nonstandard hours.

That is actually a very interesting evaluation that is based in a whole lot of truth



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11798 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2132 times:

Actually, they do have Arena Football and East Coast Hockey League teams and an AAA baseball team as I recall. But, one reason I have heard any major league shys away from Las Vegas is because the majority of the people that would attend the games work mainly in the evening when the games are being played. The money is there to build arenas and stadiums, but the major leagues seem to think the people are not there.

GO CANUCKS!!



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26812 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2129 times:

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 9):
AAA baseball team

They are the Dodgers AAA team.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13199 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2123 times:

There are already enough NFL, MLB or NBA teams in each league, and they don't need to have more teams by expansion to add Las Vegas. To provide Las Vegas with a team would most probably mean a major city losing a team. Which city would you want see lose their teams in those leagues?
I would also suggest that Las Vegas didn't become a major market/city with a substantual base population until a few years ago and is facing limits on expansion due to available water and land in the area (much land in the area is owned by the US Government, including military bases) also limits their viability to be a major big 4 sports venue.


User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2119 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 11):
There are already enough NFL, MLB or NBA teams in each league, and they don't need to have more teams by expansion to add Las Vegas. To provide Las Vegas with a team would most probably mean a major city losing a team. Which city would you want see lose their teams in those leagues?

The owners of the Sacramento Kings, who own a casino in Las Vegas, have been talking for some time about moving the team. This may be coming closer to reality after the voters in Sacramento defeated an arena proposal.



"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2116 times:

The major issue is stadium financing. All those state of the art hotel and casinos in Las Vegas were built without the help of Joe taxpayer. And the casino owners would cry foul if a stadium was built with taxpayer money, so for a stadium to be built the owner would have to provide all the financing himself, which most owners do not do.

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26812 posts, RR: 75
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2109 times:

Quoting PROSA (Reply 12):
The owners of the Sacramento Kings, who own a casino in Las Vegas, have been talking for some time about moving the team. This may be coming closer to reality after the voters in Sacramento defeated an arena proposal.

That would be pretty shocking given that they are Sacto's only major league team and have a very solid fan base. Also, ARCO Arena is not particularly old nor is it in bad shape.

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 13):
so for a stadium to be built the owner would have to provide all the financing himself, which most owners do not do.

But when they do, they benefit. Take a look at Dodger Stadium



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2103 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
They are the Dodgers AAA team.

Las Vegas 51's. Isn't this the last year they will be affiliated with the Dodgers? I could have sworn I heard they were changing their AAA team. I could be wrong though.

Quoting PROSA (Reply 12):
This may be coming closer to reality after the voters in Sacramento defeated an arena proposal.



Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):

That would be pretty shocking given that they are Sacto's only major league team and have a very solid fan base. Also, ARCO Arena is not particularly old nor is it in bad shape.

I agree. The Arco Arena is relatively new and is one of the loudest home arenas as well as still fairly state of the art. Hell, its only 19 years old.


User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2100 times:

Quoting KROC (Reply 2):
I'd love to play in Vegas.

Signed, Packman Jones

I'll second that.

Signed,
Pete Rose

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 1):
1) Las Vegas is a population largely based on transient folk who come from other cities and bring their sports loyalties with them. You might get people to buy a few tickets, but it's hard to get the population to really "support" the team.

I think this is the main reason here. It's the same situation in Orlando. The only major league team is the Orlando Magic (NBA).


User currently offlineHPLASOps From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2092 times:

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 13):
The major issue is stadium financing. All those state of the art hotel and casinos in Las Vegas were built without the help of Joe taxpayer.

And being the largest revenue generators in the city, I think it's fair to say they don't need the help.

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 13):
And the casino owners would cry foul if a stadium was built with taxpayer money

Why? Bringing a team to Vegas won't hurt the casinos any - in fact, it will probably give them more business. Besides, the casinos pay taxes, they don't benefit from the taxes; it is not up to them how the tax money is distributed.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
That would be pretty shocking given that they are Sacto's only major league team and have a very solid fan base.

That doesn't guarantee anything. The Minnesota North Stars were located in the most prolific hockey state in America, had a great, loyal fan base, and the owner still decided to bolt to Texas.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
But when they do, they benefit. Take a look at Dodger Stadium

Or to take an example from a stadium built within the last half century, SBC/AT&T/Corporatefuckingplastering.com Park or what ever it is called now in San Francisco. That park was not built with any civic assistance; it still does occasionally happen.

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 13):
The major issue is stadium financing.

This is not the major issue. You have to get a team to want to come to this city before you talk of who is going to pay for for it.


User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2077 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
Which explains why California's population is still growing

Let us all bow down to the temple of knowledge that is N1102A and his vast expertise on everything.  sarcastic 

I understand that California continues to grow their population but at the same time thousands of people are leaving and moving to Oregon, Washington, Nevada, Arizona, Colorado, etc. The number entering is more than the number leaving but there are still massive amounts of people leaving California.

Your attempt at sarcastic humor has yet again fallen on deaf ears. Oh, don't you fall into the same category since you live in NOLA now? Or do you just consider yourself a transient until you find something better suited to your metropolitan lifestyle?



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2071 times:

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 6):
I still think it will be a long time before one of the major 4 leagues has a team there though given the lack of facilities but more so that still hard to capture audience.

They have to have a basketball arena somewhere, as the NBA All-Star game is held there, though I'm not sure if it's held in UNLV's arena or a seperate arena (or is it held at a nearby prison?  wink  ).


User currently offlineSJCRRPAX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2067 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
Which explains why California's population is still growing



California is losing a ton of people. A lot of those people are retired people who sell their homes so they can have money to live in Las Vegas, and a lot of those people are younger people who will never be able to afford a home in certain parts of California. A lot of people leave the state because the state income tax is so high. A lot of people are fed up with the overcrowding. California is also gaining a lot of people, a very large percentage of immigrants first settle in California, and I won't even go into the millions of illegal immigrants that go to California. Here is something very few people know, if it wasn't for immigration the USA would be losing population. I think it would be nice to have 0% population growth. I'm just dying to find a politician who will say, I want no population growth, energy independence, nuclear power, balance budget and balance trade. Well, I guess that's too radical.


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2062 times:

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 1):

2) Major leagues have an irrational fear of gambling. I call it irrational because the gambling that occurs is more regulated and safer from unnecessary influence than most forms of under the table gambling that occurs elsewhere throughout the US.

Only the NFL and MLB have an irrational fear of gambling. To the NBA and the NHL, the gambling issue isn't that big of a problem. The NBA has a WNBA team playing at the Mohegan Sun, one of their teams is owned by a casino operator, and they wouldn't have even thought about putting the recent All-Star Game in Las Vegas if they had a problem with gambling. In the NHL, you have casino advertisements along the boards in a number of cities, and the Pens were trying to get a slot license in association with the Isle of Capri (who was going to build them a new arena).

As far as sports gambling (which is the type of gambling the NFL and MLB have an issue with), that issue can be easily handled if a team in one of the four major pro sports were to put a team in Las Vegas. As it currently stands, no sports book in the State of Nevada takes any sports betting involving any NCAA event involving a Nevada college team. There's a pro sports precedence as well. When the Maloofs opened up the Palms, they had to agree not to take any NBA betting at all in their sports book (This was mainly to satisfy the NBA, as their previous casino they owned, did not have a sports book). Plus the casinos agreed not to do any bets associated with this year's NBA All-Star Game. Simply put, the Gaming Control Board could decree that if a pro team were to move (or a league were to grant an expansion franchise) to Las Vegas, none of the sports books could take any action on any game involving that team.

Could Las Vegas support a top tier pro team? Yes, but not at this time. I personally think that when (not if) Las Vegas does land a team, it will be either an NBA or an NHL team (As it would be a cold day in Hell before the NFL or MLB puts a team in Vegas). It will not be an expansion franchise either, as several teams in both leagues are rumored candidates for relocation.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 16):
I'll second that.

Signed,
Pete Rose

Last March during the 2006 LAS Meet, I was over at the Forum Shops and he was over at some sports memorabilia shop signing stuff. Would somebody tell him to get a new hairstyle.....


User currently offlineAAce24 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 849 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2056 times:

I'm sure Charlotte wouldn't even notice if the Bobcats were gone.

Feel free to take them.


User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2043 times:

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 17):
Why? Bringing a team to Vegas won't hurt the casinos any - in fact, it will probably give them more business. Besides, the casinos pay taxes, they don't benefit from the taxes; it is not up to them how the tax money is distributed.

Because in the eyes of the casinos it would be unfair to give public money to construct a private stadium when no public money was given to build their private casinos; which is actually a valid point. It has nothing to do with whether they will benefit from the stadium or not, but rather with the fact that they don’t want to pay for someone else’s new construction.

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 17):
This is not the major issue. You have to get a team to want to come to this city before you talk of who is going to pay for for it.

No this is the ONLY issue. No team owner will relocate to LAS if he has to pay for the stadium with all of his money. Heck no team owner will stay in his home city if he has to pay for a new stadium with all of his money. Gambling and all that other junk are non issues, as gambling is legal in just about every state in the union.


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2040 times:

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 21):
The NBA has a WNBA team playing at the Mohegan Sun, one of their teams is owned by a casino operator,

Nothing says sports example like a WNBA team. What time do the ponies usually run there?


25 Post contains images Srbmod : I thought Rebecca Lobo had retired........
26 DeltaGator : I believe they are using the Thomas and Mack Center for the All Star Game. Wait, it already happened and I didn't care (college bball for me please.)
27 AAce24 : Sure did, then they went and built a brand new arena, and convinced the NBA to come back. Now they can't even fill the lower section....
28 Post contains images KROC : This can't be ignored.
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