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Colleges... West Point?  
User currently offlineBagpiper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 971 times:

Well... its that time of life I guess. I'm getting a ton of college recruitment letters. I got one from West Point today; I'm sure it was a standard letter they sent out to 4.3 million other kids across the country, too.

Any of you been to West Point? Any chance of me maybe getting into an aviation spot in the Army through West Point? (Not a chopper pilot, more like A-10, cargo, or something along those lines). From what i can see, it doesn't look nearly as tough as the Air Force Academy.

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4343 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 956 times:

Quoting Bagpiper (Thread starter):
From what i can see, it doesn't look nearly as tough as the Air Force Academy.

Nah, it's not, its a well known fact that West Point accepts those that couldn't get into USAFA or USNA. . .  duck 
(looks for Pep and hides)

Seriously, what Cadets at USMA physically and mentally go through looks tougher than what Cadets at USAFA go through, not that either are a cake walk. Scholastically, I can vouch that the classes are tough as hell at USAFA, but I can't talk to USMA.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineBagpiper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 951 times:

yeah I figured I might have a chance at USMA since I got their little post card thingy in the mail... however, I haven't gotten anything from USAFA, so.... not that I'd go there anyways, I'm sure. I'd like to think i would... but...  Wink

User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 943 times:

Quoting Bagpiper (Thread starter):
Any chance of me maybe getting into an aviation spot in the Army through West Point? (Not a chopper pilot, more like A-10, cargo, or something along those lines).

The Army doesn't fly the A-10. In fact, the bulk of Army aviation is made up of choppers, though they do have some fixed wing aircraft.

I'm not sure how being a West Pointer would effect your selection into an aviation spot, but I'd guess that it wouldn't hurt.


User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 941 times:

Quoting Bagpiper (Thread starter):
From what i can see, it doesn't look nearly as tough as the Air Force Academy.

 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  I hope you got your  flamed  suit ready.

Quoting Bagpiper (Reply 2):
not that I'd go there anyways

You are a wimp.


Signed,

Doug Masters


User currently offlineBagpiper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 933 times:

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 4):
I hope you got your  flamed  suit ready.

eh... I figure if I survive it, West Point will be a piece of cake.

 Silly  Wink


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 932 times:

Quoting Bagpiper (Thread starter):
Any chance of me maybe getting into an aviation spot in the Army through West Point? (Not a chopper pilot, more like A-10, cargo, or something along those lines).

The Army's current fixed wing assets include Exec Turbo-Props (C-12 King Airs) and Jets (a few G-4s) transports and C-23 Sherpa's (POSs) (Bastardized Shorts 360s). You wanna fly fixed wing, the Army is not the place for you.

You wanna be a rotorhead - then you're talking.

That said: The US Military Academy at West Point is a tough as nails school. Academically and physically. Their football team sucks. Also, USMA graduation doesn't guarantee you'll go to flight school.

One asset you should try is member UH60FtRucker. He should be in transit stateside from his Iraq Tour. Drop him an e-mail via his a-net link.

I don't know of any member here that is a recent (or past) graduate of USMA. I'm sure I'm wrong, but no one has ever mentioned it.


User currently offlineBagpiper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 923 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 6):

Ah, ok. And, I assume being a rotorhead won't do me any good to get a job flying later in life, after I'd be out of the Army.



I guess I have another 4 months or so to procrastinate over which college to go to.  Smile Probably will end up being the local state school 20 minutes from me... although, they have a fairly nice Computer Science major, so, its not a bad thing!


User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 921 times:

Quoting Bagpiper (Reply 7):
I assume being a rotorhead won't do me any good to get a job flying later in life

There are plenty of civilian helicopter jobs out there.


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 919 times:

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 4):
You are a wimp.


Signed,

Doug Masters

Nicely done.

Remember. It is far better to have failed at the USAFA then to have graduated from West Point.


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4343 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 908 times:

Quoting Bagpiper (Reply 7):
I guess I have another 4 months or so to procrastinate over which college to go to. Smile Probably will end up being the local state school 20 minutes from me... although, they have a fairly nice Computer Science major, so, its not a bad thing!

If you're a senior, and you haven't begun the process yet, if the application process is anything like when I was in HS (back in the dark ages) you can pretty much forget about any of the Military Academies. I started my Junior year, and still didn't get the appointment announcement until May.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 888 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 6):
The US Military Academy at West Point is a tough as nails school. Academically and physically

Agreed; one of the guys I work with is a West Point Grad Class of 72..

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 6):
Their football team sucks.

No place is perfect.  boggled 

You're congressman/woman or senator hasn't held a meeting in your area regarding appointments. In my area both Congressman Flake and Sen. Kyl both held meetings and invited high schools sophomores and juniors to learn more.


User currently offlineFumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 879 times:

Quoting Bagpiper (Reply 7):
Ah, ok. And, I assume being a rotorhead won't do me any good to get a job flying later in life, after I'd be out of the Army.

It can happen. My Uncle flew with the airlines after serving three helicopter tours in Vietnam and some flight training stateside. Those were different times though too.


User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 859 times:

Quoting KROC (Reply 9):
Nicely done.

But not KO worthy  Sad Damn.


User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 852 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 6):
Quoting Bagpiper (Thread starter):
Any chance of me maybe getting into an aviation spot in the Army through West Point? (Not a chopper pilot, more like A-10, cargo, or something along those lines).

The Army's current fixed wing assets include Exec Turbo-Props (C-12 King Airs) and Jets (a few G-4s) transports and C-23 Sherpa's (POSs) (Bastardized Shorts 360s). You wanna fly fixed wing, the Army is not the place for you.

I heard somewhere that the Air Force is phasing out A-10's but the Army will be taking them over. Couldn't tell you if that's true or not though.


You should get into these places just for finishing the application. Between the initial application, the actual application, recommendation forms, Liaison interview, DoDMERB Physical, and Fitness test, that was a bitch. I applied to both the Air Force and Naval Academy. Got the Congressional nominations to USAFA but didn't make it in the final selection process. Worked out alright though. I'm on an ROTC scholarship (Air Force) down at ERAU and enjoying it for the most part. In fact, a lot of our cadets here are USAFA rejects, lol.

Bagpiper:
If you're a junior, you should apply to the Summer Seminars held at the each of the Academies. That will be a decent introduction to Academy life. I attended the USNA one in 2004. If you're a senior, you're already too late I believe. You have to start the application process at the beginning of your Senior year. IIRC, USAFA application deadline was March 4.

If you're interested in the military even if you dont go to a service academy, look into applying for an ROTC Scholarship as well. If you'd like, PM me and I'll give you some information regarding ROTC scholarships and ROTC in general (Probably won't get around to writing a response till tomorrow, but just like I said, PM me if you want. I'll be happy to answer any questions for ya.)


User currently offlineBagpiper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 846 times:

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 10):

I'm a junior. I'd be screwed if I was a senior, applying for colleges now!

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 14):
If you're interested in the military even if you dont go to a service academy, look into applying for an ROTC Scholarship as well. If you'd like, PM me and I'll give you some information regarding ROTC scholarships and ROTC in general (Probably won't get around to writing a response till tomorrow, but just like I said, PM me if you want. I'll be happy to answer any questions for ya.)

Ok that sounds good. I am going back and forth... military, no military... Like I said, I guess I have another four months to figure it all out. I've been thinking about ROTC for a while... seems like a nice trade off. I just hope I can fly that way! Nothing fancy... cargo or transport is fine for me... although, an F16 would rock  Smile


User currently offlineBagpiper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 844 times:

I guess one other thing to note, too, is that I'm an Eagle Scout. I know that used to get you a big bang for the buck... but I don't think its that big of a deal now?

User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 841 times:

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 14):
I heard somewhere that the Air Force is phasing out A-10's but the Army will be taking them over.

That's funny. In a LOT of ways that would make a TON of sense. But what's that thing about militray "intelligence". As much as the USAF brass would love to kill the A-10 they know they can't. It has saved their ass way too many times.


User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 835 times:

You got some good advice if your looking to fly already. While I didn't attend West Point I do work there now.

I just want you to be aware of a few things. If you plan to enter any of the service academies then your obviously planning on making a career of the military, even if you plan to have a career after serving. Consider this the reason you getting postcards from USMA rather than USAFA is that the AF is a technical branch. Fewer and fewer officers are going to be needed as the AF shifts to UAVs. Same is true of Canoe U. The Navy has smaller and smaller crews for ships they don't need as many officers. The Navy is making an effort to shift more of its middies to USMC. AF can't do that. In fact the AF is apparently offer early retirement to many Majors and Captains because they have so many.

The Army on the other hand will always need people since the man is the weapons platform.

As for academics West Point and the academies strive for a "Ivy League" level of education. And indeed the other academies may OFFER an Ivy league level of education, but since both USNA and USAFA have had cheating scandals one might have to consider not how tough the curriculum is but how smart are your fellow students. First, they had to cheat, then to have the second strike of getting caught! How dumb can you get. But since AF concentrates on Football and dropping bombs mostly on Canadians and British groundpounders, its no surprise.

Eat, Drink and Beat Navy


User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 830 times:

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 18):
But since AF concentrates on Football and dropping bombs mostly on Canadians and British groundpounders, its no surprise.

 Wow!  Wow!

Someone needs to post a video of a crowd reacting to a great dis on 'yo momma'


User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 825 times:

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 18):
As for academics West Point and the academies strive for a "Ivy League" level of education. And indeed the other academies may OFFER an Ivy league level of education, but since both USNA and USAFA have had cheating scandals one might have to consider not how tough the curriculum is but how smart are your fellow students. First, they had to cheat, then to have the second strike of getting caught! How dumb can you get.

Oh the pain..been some cheating and other problems at West Point over time.(didn't ESPN do a money on one cheating scandal at the point) .If the media is correct the AFA has had a problem with the right wing religious nuts in their mist, which is one of the reasons why the Fischer DeBerry was asked to leave after 20 odd years as football coach. Speaking of dumb, isn't the joke about the Air Force that they are the only branch that sends the officers to war, and leave the enlisted back.


User currently offlineBagpiper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 822 times:

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 18):
is that the AF is a technical branch

Ah. Makes sense. So, in other words, they basically have enough pilots at the moment, so they aren't actively recruiting for the AFA, as in sending out post cards?

Dang. If I had been born 20 years earlier... might have been able to fly an F16. Ah well.

Now I guess they'll be recruiting all the geeks off of XBox Live to go fly their 20 million dollar toys around a war zone.
 grumpy 


User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 822 times:

Quoting AirCop (Reply 20):
Speaking of dumb, isn't the joke about the Air Force that they are the only branch that sends the officers to war, and leave the enlisted back.

LOL I hadn't heard that one but it's damn good.

BTW I saw this about Football and the military:

New SecDef Directive: Joint Rules for the Army-Navy-Air Force-Marine Corps Game.


The Pentagon announced new rules for the fall 2005 Army-Navy-Air Force-Marine Corps football tournament:

Recently the Pentagon announced new rules for the annual Army-Navy-Air Force-Marine Corps football tournament. It is now known that fully integrated teams will take to the gridiron only after negotiating the following:

1. Only flag football will be played. The Joint Chiefs of Staff deemed tackle and touch football too dangerous. First, because of the CNN factor, the public will no longer tolerate even one field casualty. Second, touching another player today -- even the congratulatory pat on the behind -- is court-martial bait.

2. The phrase "making a pass" will be changed to the less ambiguous "throwing the ball." And the Army, Navy and Marines will be blocked from throws beyond 5 yards because of Air Force protests that it alone owns the long-range air attack mission.

3. The Marine Corps may run with the ball, but no more than 25 yards per quarter, the Pentagon ruled. It was prompted by Army objections to long-range naval ground operations.

4. The Navy may not use tailbacks. The term is too sensitive and should be avoided.

5. To promote inter-service cooperation, all teams were ordered to use the same game plan, after receiving suggestions from all four services.

The Army's plan, called "The Game After Next," called for handoffs of a digitized football to the fullback, up the middle, on every play. The Army plan's last chapter, titled "Exit Strategy," was oddly blank, which would leave players with no choice but to set up bunkers and temporary housing on the 50-yard line.

The Navy's "Forward... From the Bench" plan called for players -- each called a ball "carrier" -- to be surrounded by other Navy football players in a pack called "carrier groups." These units would establish a roaming "presence" all over the playing field. Less important than crossing the goal line is the Navy strategy of being able to protect the carrier group wherever it patrols the gridiron. So threatening are these carriers, the Navy strategy goes, that no one would be foolish enough to even mount a defense.

The Marine's "Three-Yard War" plan was predictable: Seize ground, every down, no matter how, regardless of the price, preferably while on the playing field. The linchpin of the Marine game plan called for packing the audience with members of Congress to ensure that the Marines' performance did not go unrecognized.

The Air Force's "Field-Wide Engagement" plan kept calling for very long, accurate throws on every down, during huddles, time outs, halftime, between games, in the parking lot and even in the showers. So fast and accurate would these throws be, went the Air Force strategy, no other team should even bother to take the field.

After examining each team's playbook the Secretary of Defense ruled that none was suitable, leaving each service to its own devices.

The Navy decided victory could be had by not taking the field at all. Instead, its players patrolled up and down the sidelines in breathtaking formation, hoping that would sufficiently deter the other teams from leaving their benches. Likewise, the Army decided against taking the field, at least until several conditions were met: one, that vital U.S. national interests were at stake; two, the conditions for victory were concrete and easily defined; and, three, the president would activate 550,000 reserve and National Guard Army football players if the game actually were to be played.

The Air Force felt victory could be achieved also by not showing up. Secret plans were later leaked to the press that the Air Force had spent $38.7 billion on a system able to fire the football into the end zone from space.

Bolstered by congressional resolution to be the "most ready football team when others are the least," the Marines stormed the playing field and declared themselves the winners.

And there was joy in Mudville.

You may wonder why the Coast Guard didn't participate in the game. Well, the Coast Guard originally suggested a game plan which would save tons of money by using a 35 year old football (painted white with a red stripe, for easy identification on the field); they would also play with hand-me-down uniforms from the Navy. Then, in order to economize, the Coast Guard proposed to play with only six players who would act as both offense, defense, first, second and third string. In order to provide value for service, these same six players would also sell concessions at halftime and sweep the stadium after the game. If asked, the Coast Guard players would also wipe the game ball for the Navy between plays. In order to reflect the right proportions of the smallest U.S. military force, four players would be designated quarterbacks, two as wide receivers, and one as left tackle. Oops, forgot they’d only field six players: forget the tackle.

However, the Coast Guard never made it to the game because Secretary Rumsfeld said the Coast Guard couldn't win on their own; the Coast Guard was told to confine play to the practice field from now on.

Little does the Secretary know the Coast Guard managed to sneak the six players in to the game anyway: dressed as cheerleaders!


User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 820 times:

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 22):
However, the Coast Guard never made it to the game because Secretary Rumsfeld said the Coast Guard couldn't win on their own; the Coast Guard was told to confine play to the practice field from now on.

Little does the Secretary know the Coast Guard managed to sneak the six players in to the game anyway: dressed as cheerleaders!

I feel the wrath of Halls120 coming down on you..


User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 817 times:

Quoting Bagpiper (Reply 21):
So, in other words, they basically have enough pilots at the moment, so they aren't actively recruiting for the AFA, as in sending out post cards?

Well, lets just say they think they know how many they need and are whittling down the numbers they have. Personally I think the AF is getting tired of being the AA team for the airlines. Here they teach these kids, get six years or so from them but if they get an offer from UAL they bail. But that's just a guess.

AS for A-10 the current A-10 plan has them in service til 2020 or something like that.most of them need to have thier wings strengthened after years of in tense meneuvering a low level.

If I were a pilot I'd want to be an A-10 driver.

There is an idea for the fantasy plane guys. Design a simple updated version of the A-10.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 23):

I think that post was an equal oportunity swipe at the branches. My personal favorite quote was:

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 22):
The linchpin of the Marine game plan called for packing the audience with members of Congress to ensure that the Marines' performance did not go unrecognized.

Followed closly by:

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 22):
Secret plans were later leaked to the press that the Air Force had spent $38.7 billion on a system able to fire the football into the end zone from space.


25 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Difficult animal to replace. Titanium cockpit. High Speed Cannon. I've seen them work. They are damned impressive. Glad they are on our side. says th
26 Post contains images KROC : Come on now Pep. I spent the better part of my time with your Army Pukes, so I know how full of shit their bravado is. The only thing different betwe
27 UALPHLCS : Well, there's were you start. Just like Fairchild did in the 70s, you've got the gun now who do we make it fly?
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