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Bill Would Require Bible Classes In TX Schools  
User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2311 times:

I think I'm for this bill.

Kids are Bible retarded nowadays. Prime example last week during the NCAA basketball tournament:
University of Memphis basketball player Joey Dorsey called out Ohio States’ Greg Oden by calling the 7-foot All-American "overrated" and saying that his upcoming meeting with Oden was a modern-day David vs. Goliath, and that Dorsey is Goliath.
LOL…I guess Dorsey was never taught that Goliath lost that bout with David!

Link to the bill.
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/80R/billtext/pdf/HB01287I.pdf

135 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCastleIsland From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2301 times:

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Thread starter):
I think I'm for this bill.

Well, we teach English lit, and that's fiction, so why not?


User currently offlineFumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2291 times:

Thank god this will never pass. If it makes it as a bill, which it won't, then Supreme Court will rip it up.

User currently offlineDeltaAVL From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1893 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2280 times:

There have been so many attempts at this bill in various parts of the country. The truth is that it's never going to happen. You can't just exclude other religions like that.


"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2280 times:

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 2):
If it makes it as a bill, which it won't, then Supreme Court will rip it up.

Huh?
How would this bill violate the US Constitution?


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2270 times:

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 4):
How would this bill violate the US Constitution?

If they taught about the history of the Bible, then it might be OK. But, if they teach the content of the Bible, then it would be illegal.

Either way, enough people would see it as teaching religion in public schools to kill it before it took its first steps.


User currently offlineFumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2270 times:

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 4):
Huh?
How would this bill violate the US Constitution?

It might work if it is an elective class only. The problem with that is the school would be obliged to create an elective for other religions and atheism as well. Now, lets get this straight-"the literature and study of the testaments" is the same thing as as class on Christianity. They are just trying to pretend its a humanities class to attempt to find a loophole.

So, offering a course on Christianity cannot be supported by public funds according to the Establishment Clause of The First Amendment of The United States of America (thats alot of capital letters so it must be important). If the kiddies wanted to have bible study after school, its OK according to the Supreme Court.

Things like this have been shot down by the Feds and it will be again.


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12214 posts, RR: 35
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2262 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

I think that kids should have to take a religion class, but with all major religions covered and not emphasizing one or the other. Learn the history and geography and cultures that go with each religion.


911, where is your emergency?
User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2262 times:

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 6):
Things like this have been shot down by the Feds and it will be again.

Hopefully not by our new court. Separation of Church and State is mentioned nowhere in the Constitution.


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2242 times:

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 7):
I think that kids should have to take a religion class, but with all major religions covered and not emphasizing one or the other. Learn the history and geography and cultures that go with each religion.

That's the way I taught my religion lessons in primary school in England. I felt it was more important for the pupils to learn more about the people around them. Lord knows, they get enough Anglican education elsewhere and in former or future classes.


User currently offlineFumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2243 times:

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 8):
Separation of Church and State is mentioned nowhere in the Constitution.

You are right, but it does state that no government can support or establish a religion. The Supreme Court has found time and time again that classes on religion in public lower level education is promotion of religion, and I agree. Lets say a moslem in your school is paying for students to study Christianity, is that right? No. Lets say that you move to Utah and the public school has lessons on Mormonism and you do not agree with it. Is that right?

The seperation of church and state first came about as a statement by Jefferson in The Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom . BTW, Jefferson is one of the major contributors to the Constitution and his intent is obvious in this matter.

Whereas Almighty God hath created the mind free; that all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burthens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and are a departure from the plan of the Holy author of our religion, who being Lord both of body and mind, yet chose not to propagate it by coercions on either, as it was in his Almighty power to do; that the impious presumption of legislators and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavouring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world, and through all time; that to compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves, is sinful and tyrannical; that even the forcing him to support this or that teacher of his own religious persuasion, is depriving him of the comfortable liberty of giving his contributions to the particular pastor, whose morals he would make his pattern, and whose powers he feels most persuasive to righteousness,

http://www.worldpolicy.org/globalrig.../religion/va-religiousfreedom.html


User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2227 times:

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 7):
I think that kids should have to take a religion class, but with all major religions covered and not emphasizing one or the other. Learn the history and geography and cultures that go with each religion.

Although that is a good idea, they would be able to do every religion but Christianity because someone will say their child is being taught Christianity, and they don't like it.


User currently offlineDiamond From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3279 posts, RR: 63
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2222 times:

Your title is a little misleading.

The bill would 'require' schools to offer an elective class. It would not 'require' anyone to take the class.



Blank.
User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2215 times:

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 10):
BTW, Jefferson is one of the major contributors to the Constitution and his intent is obvious in this matter.

I disagree.
Firstly, during Jefferson’s day the bill of rights only applied to the federal government.

Secondly the first amendment was interpreted for more than a hundred years to mean that Congress is prohibited from establishing a national religious denomination and that Congress can not require that all Americans become Catholics, Anglicans, or members of any other denomination.


User currently offlineLogansGirl From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2208 times:

Thank you Fumanchewd!!! Quoting Jefferson is brilliantly appropriate. Apparently rather than teaching the Bible, we should be finding a way to teach more American History & Government.  Wow!


I Love CastleIsland!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2204 times:

An elective course, fine. Just offer the same thing for other major religions.

A required course. Not on your life buddy.

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Thread starter):
Kids are Bible retarded nowadays.

I seriously hope that before you went about disdaining people for being "bible retarded" you knew the legend of Amaterasu and the Kusanagi.

Oh you don't?

Gee, you're retarded then aren't you... by your own standard of lack of knowledge in a religious field.


User currently offlineFutureUALpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2195 times:

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Thread starter):
Kids are Bible retarded nowadays.

So? What if we dont believe in it, or do not follow any particular religion? I am probably what you consider "bible retarded" and couldn't possibly care less.

I agree with the others, if it were to be an elective class, that is one thing, but making it required is another.



Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlineFumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2185 times:

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 13):
Firstly, during Jefferson’s day the bill of rights only applied to the federal government.

Right, now you're catching on. The federal government secures its citizen's rights to vote, to bear arms, etc, etc.. The constitution is still regulated by the federal government now just as it was back then. That is why the Supreme Court always shoots these things down whenver a red belt town tries to bring it up. I give them my props!

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 13):
Secondly the first amendment was interpreted for more than a hundred years to mean that Congress is prohibited from establishing a national religious denomination and that Congress can not require that all Americans become Catholics, Anglicans, or members of any other denomination.

Is your source your pastor or church? This is not a fact. Remember, Jefferson wrote, if you had read my post...

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 10):
that to compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves, is sinful and tyrannical; that even the forcing him to support this or that teacher of his own religious persuasion, is depriving him of the comfortable liberty of giving his contributions to the particular pastor, whose morals he would make his pattern, and whose powers he feels most persuasive to righteousness,

So you would like to qualify it as being dominations of Christianity only and not other religions, but that is immoral. If you read again, you will see that he was very much aware of the dangers of the public being forced to pay for any theological idea. Again, do you think that a Catholic would be happy to pay for a grade school class on Mormonism?

If a parent would like his child to learn a religion, then they should take them to their church, temple, mosque, sweat lodge, whatever.


User currently offlineCastleIsland From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2177 times:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 15):
An elective course, fine. Just offer the same thing for other major religions.

I completely agree; however:

Can you just imagine Ma and Pa Texan smiling when Junior comes home and proclaims that "we learned about the Koran today!"

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 15):
A required course. Not on your life buddy.

Ummhmmm. Ummhmmm.


User currently offlineLogansGirl From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2172 times:

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 13):
Secondly the first amendment was interpreted for more than a hundred years to mean that Congress is prohibited from establishing a national religious denomination and that Congress can not require that all Americans become Catholics, Anglicans, or members of any other denomination.

FYI... Jefferson was agnostic/atheist for a goodly portion of his life. Second, they weren't intending to not have authority to tell you which Denomination of Christian to be, but that you couldn't be told whether or not to believe in God, gods, goddesses, Hindu, Muslim, Buddha, or Zoroaster. They had lived with TYRRANY. They were determined to establish laws that prevented TYRRANY here. Christians are mostly doing what they think is right, but you guys really don't have to convert the rest of us on the planet. We'll get to the other side the same way you do.



I Love CastleIsland!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2163 times:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 15):
I seriously hope that before you went about disdaining people for being "bible retarded" you knew the legend of Amaterasu and the Kusanagi.

Oh you don't?

In typical aNet non-av fashion, you’re logic is flawed.
I never brought up nor did I purport to know anything about Amaterasu and the Kusanagi. Dorsey on the other hand tried to call out Greg Oden by comparing thier upcoming meeting with the All-American with the Biblical story of David vs Goliath, but in his stupidity compared himself with Goliath.


User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2163 times:

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 18):
Can you just imagine Ma and Pa Texan smiling when Junior comes home and proclaims that "we learned about the Koran today!"

Well, if Ma and Pa Texan are my wife and I, we would probably get our copy of the Koran off the shelf and review what little Jr learned.

It's there right next to the Torah, the Bible, the Book of Morman, the Book of Urantia and a couple of others.

Now, if it was my mother in law... she'd have a coronary on the spot.  ghost 


User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2156 times:

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 20):
I never brought up nor did I purport to know anything about Amaterasu and the Kusanagi.

Hey that's fine if you want to get defensive about not knowing anything about non-christian religions.

But, if you don't want to know about other religions... Then why should I, or Greg Oden, know anything about the bible?

Hey look, I'm happy being a bible retard.

You just have to own up to being a Muslin, Hindu, Judaism, Shinto etc etc etc retard.


User currently offlineCastleIsland From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2148 times:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 21):
Well, if Ma and Pa Texan are my wife and I, we would probably get our copy of the Koran off the shelf and review what little Jr learned.

It's there right next to the Torah, the Bible, the Book of Morman, the Book of Urantia and a couple of others.

I knew that about you (or suspected so), just based on your posts...Thanks for explaining though. It's nice to learn about how conservatives can have non-stereotypical views.

It's also very nice to see people teaching their kids about all faiths. checkmark 

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 21):
Now, if it was my mother in law... she'd have a coronary on the spot.

LMMFAO.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2148 times:

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Thread starter):
Kids are Bible retarded nowadays.

Some are that way because, you know, they're like Jewish, or Muslim, or Hindu? Get the picture.

As for the rest, send them to Sunday School to learn the Holy Scriptures, not public schoos.

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 10):
Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 8):
Separation of Church and State is mentioned nowhere in the Constitution.

You are right, but it does state that no government can support or establish a religion.

Exactly, and if the Holy Bible is taught, then it can be interpreted that the government is endorsing and supporting Christianity. That's Unconstitutional, my friend.

Let them try to do this. Even this mostly conservative court will toss this one out.


25 LogansGirl : True Conservative thinking, Mate. Being a conservative means knowing why seperation of Church and State is the right thing to do. It's a mistaken bel
26 102IAHexpress : FYI: David vs Goliath is a Jewish story! And actually the Qur'an has an account of the story as well.
27 Falcon84 : Or, if one choose, freedom FROM religion.
28 LogansGirl : Matter of fact, it's also a Christian story since your religion was a direct derivative of the Jewish faith. Not all Christian stories are Jewish, bu
29 Fumanchewd : Since the Bible and the Koran have their roots in the torah, that is not a revelation. That story, however, is not a part of buddhism or any other wo
30 Mir : Since the bill calls for the class to be an elective, I have no real problem with it, but I can't help but thinking that if a certain group of people
31 Yellowstone : As a matter of fact, for my senior year English class, part of our summer reading was selections from the Bible. The justification was that Western l
32 Go3Team : I think you've changed my mind on this topic based on the following quote: The founding fathers worded the constitution that the government may not e
33 Luv2fly : I have to agree! If it is so almighty important then consider a religious school.
34 102IAHexpress : Well if improving basic English is such an imperative then, I know of no other book in the history of man that has helped to increase literacy and th
35 Fumanchewd : The problem with electives is that people of any religion (and atheism) can request a similiar class as an elective and if the school cannot accomodat
36 Post contains images Fumanchewd : Do you read or speak in the manner of the bible?
37 Go3Team : I once saw a plain English Bible. And Fred said to his buddies, "Hey man, don't be killing people."
38 CastleIsland : I have no problem with that. I actually salute it. Teach the Bible; also teach Dostoyevsky, plus the Koran, Book of Tao, Book of Morman, Dhammapada.
39 MDorBust : For most of the history of the bible it was taught in Latin... and most of the people couldn't read it at all because they were illiterate.. and happ
40 Go3Team : Perhaps parents should give approval prior to the kid taking the class. Have the parents go over a summary of what the course will include. Maybe the
41 Post contains images Mir : -Mir
42 LogansGirl : It's not about sharing basic concepts. It's not the concept of following a route, it's many different routes can still get you where you're going. We
43 Post contains images Gunsontheroof : It boggles my mind that comparative religion isn't a mandatory part of U.S. curriculum.
44 Yellowstone : That's (one of) the points of public education - to dispel the sort of ignorance that would lead to "Ma and Dad" getting upset about such things. I a
45 Scottieprecord : Hahaha But ya, the bible, in some form or another, is already taught in many Texas schools. For example, last year (11th grade), we were taught the o
46 NWA742 : I don't see a problem with requiring schools to offer religious studies - especially ones dealing with the Bible, as it refers to the majority of the
47 FXramper : We teach the fiction of evolution in science, why not use the Bible in schools. I'm game.
48 Disruptivehair : I wouldn't worry about this ever becoming a law; they propose ridiculous laws in Texas all the time. Some other gems include lowering the age of capit
49 Gunsontheroof : Which can probably be attributed to the aforementioned lack of comparative religion in public schools.
50 Disruptivehair : You're joking. I went to Dallas schools K-12 and we never cracked open a bible or bible study book. The only time it was even mentioned was when my A
51 Oly720man : A while ago I remember reading that some concerned parent in the US didn't want his child to learn French because Jesus spoke English. As far as reli
52 Disruptivehair : What is important for people to understand is this is yet another attempt at introducing religion through the backdoor in Texas schools. UK schools h
53 Post contains images KaiGywer : Is Spanish considered a foreign language in Texas? Just like I mentioned earlier? Well, then Ma and Dad need to broaden their horizons, and maybe thr
54 Disruptivehair : I'm not a Christian; I'm an atheist. I strongly believe it is not the public education system's job to teach children about religion and few teachers
55 KaiGywer : I agree that it is your responsibility to teach your kids about your religion (or lack thereof) and why you believe this is the right way. The school
56 Disruptivehair : We learned about world religions in my world history class; we are not as ignorant as people think we are. Also, there is a massive difference betwee
57 MDorBust : Wouldn't work even if they did pass it. SCOTUS says no-no to executing someone for a crime committed while a minor. SCOTUS pwns Tx I think he must ha
58 CastleIsland : No question about it. All I'm saying is that I suspect it would be damn close to impossible to effect this change broadly.
59 LTBEWR : I saw a news report on the growth of elective High School classes on the Bible. I would prefer that the class be a broader one as to the history of fa
60 Post contains links TACAA320 : " The First Amendment to the United States Constitution is a part of the United States Bill of Rights. It prohibits the federal legislature from makin
61 Falcon84 : Most people fled to this country, NWA742, because of religious persecution-because they didn't practice the "majority" religion of a nation. many fle
62 Disruptivehair : I know. Thank goodness (sometimes) for the SCOTUS.
63 Post contains images FlyDeltaJets87 : This course will be offered as an elective, people will still have that option. We covered Islam (both Sunni and Shiite) in my Humanities my Senior y
64 Post contains images Yellowstone : Yes, they saw their persecutors oppressing them, and they thought, "Damn, how can we get in on some of that action?" So they came over here and promp
65 MD11Engineer : Speaking as an atheist, here in Europe history, at least up the 18th century, has been so much influenced by the Christian churches that one needs to
66 Allstarflyer : So, would teaching the Bible be a study in Hebraic and Koine Greek lit? Do you know which way about which you're speaking? How? It could be because i
67 Disruptivehair : ITA. It would be very difficult to teach comparative religion in US schools without an avalanche of lawsuits every year. Teachers are only human and
68 AeroWesty : ::blink:: I can't believe this line went by without being challenged by anyone. There are some areas where that may be true, but it's certainly not a
69 Disruptivehair : Huh????????? I think you'll find that many Christians believe the opposite, i.e. it's politically incorrect to be a Christian. In any case, everybody
70 Post contains images Thetuna : I have noticed we are to damn afraid to step on some ones foot. You are going to rustle some feathers no matter what courses you add to a schools curr
71 AeroWesty : Having grown up in "whiny lib" country, I can assure you, my high school offered Bible Lit as an elective, and no one had a heart attack over it. You
72 Disruptivehair : It doesn't work that way in the US, Tuna. Your country does not have a tradition of separation of church and state, and over here they have mandatory
73 Post contains links TACAA320 : Teaching about Religion " Pluralism is the condition of society in which numerous distinct ethnic, religious, or cultural groups coexist amiably withi
74 Delta767300ER : I am totally against this Bill. Religious classes do not belong in public schools. This goes against the secular government of the United States. So w
75 UALPHLCS : NO WAY! I'm a religious person. I'm ok with some voluntary prayer in school. I know more prayer goes on in school before a test that politicians ever
76 TedTAce : Or any other religion for that matter. Excellent post UAL.
77 UALPHLCS : True enough. I though of adding that but it seemed self explanatory after my previous diatribe.
78 102IAHexpress : I disagree. Using that logic, the only way a child should learn about computer systems, should be via a trade school, a foreign language via a langua
79 UALPHLCS : If public schools are going to teach the Bible which version are you going to teach? Are you prepared for your children to be taught the Catholic ver
80 Slovacek747 : I currently work for a representative at the Texas State Capitol and I couldn't even begin to tell you how many consituent letters we have received in
81 Post contains images TedTAce : You call that "logic"? The subjects you are talking about have nothing to do with religion or a belief system. What ambiguity is there about how to t
82 TACAA320 : Majorities always rules.
83 UALPHLCS : 102IAHexpress, I'm waiting for an answer. Would you like to have a Catholic Priest teach your kids from the Catholic version of the Bible? Would you l
84 Cfalk : I don't see what the problem is for some people to understand that it might be a good thing to learn a little about texts that are a prime motivator
85 Post contains images Yellowstone : Typo or Freudian slip? Absolutely not! The whole point of the First Amendment is to protect the minority from the majority. I don't care if all but o
86 TACAA320 : I had several during eleven years and I will never regret that. So [ in my case ] the answer is a proudly YES.
87 Cfalk : Why do you equate education with indoctrination? The class is intended to teach kids about various religions in the world (paying particular attentio
88 Yellowstone : I'm not talking about a theoretical world religions course covering most or all major religions as a high school elective. That's just fine in my boo
89 Post contains images UALPHLCS : Typo. My apologies to all the morons..sorry Mormons out there. I don't doubt it. I had Christian Brothers teaching me. However, the question was aime
90 Jaysit : I am totally for this bill. Clearly, there is a dearth of Churches in Texas and people know nothing about Jesus. Plus, if they don't teach this stuff
91 Post contains images TRVYYZ : I think Bible classes should not be made compulsory in Public Schools. Public schools cater to the need of Public and not just Christians. That's why
92 TACAA320 : Does the Bill [project of] expressly mention that?
93 UALPHLCS : No, it doesn't. But the effect would be to turn every Texas public school into a Protestant School. I tried to get IAHexpress to admit he wouldn't be
94 102IAHexpress : You’re reading too much into the proposed bill. We’re not talking about turning the local high school into a seminary but rather teach an electiv
95 Post contains images Texan : Depends. With the current makeup of the court, it would be a 5-4 vote. We just don't know which way the 5-4 would go. Contrary to popular belief, Ali
96 UALPHLCS : Ah so how do they propose to teach the Bible without using one? I attended Catholic school and Catholic College, but I attended Public middle school
97 TACAA320 : If you think that in any way such Bill is unconstitutional, you have the right [your children] to not attending such religion lessons.
98 UALPHLCS : It's easier for those who WANT the religious instruction to go to the private school of their choice. As I said Government getting involved in promot
99 Cfalk : Why do US schools have American History courses? People seem to forget that the proposal is to create an ELECTIVE course, not a required one.
100 Fumanchewd : But you are still paying for it with your taxes. That is why it is unconstitutional.
101 102IAHexpress : Well, good luck pointing out the part of the US constitution that mentions a separation of Church and State. We’re talking about an elective. If li
102 UALPHLCS : OK I admit I didn't read the bill. It was one of the few times that I didn't read the link. But I oppose this bill on principle. Constitutional Princ
103 TACAA320 : Then I don't see any irregularity with such Bill.
104 Disruptivehair : WORD. Pffft....the SCOTUS would wipe their asses with it if it ever did pass. What ever happened to protecting the minority from the tyranny of the m
105 UALPHLCS : Single demonination, sure, but this is a Protestant country. On the other hand I kinda forgot about the Tex-Mex population, Texas was Catholic before
106 Post contains images TedTAce : I know you already apologized, I wanted to point out along with the other accusations of your intent, it looks like you had a Denis Rodman moment Sim
107 Disruptivehair : I agree.
108 102IAHexpress : Lets extend your logic a bit further... The use of school dollars for high school health class is enough for a litigant to have cause of action again
109 MDorBust : I would love for you to point out for me any constitutional prohibition on government involvement in sex ed classes.
110 Post contains links 102IAHexpress : Okay, you guys shut up for a minute. You might learn something. Some of you comment on this bill without actually reading it, others site the Constitu
111 MDorBust : Usually these words are followed by some attempt at communicating pertinent information. In your case, I see you've set an exception to that traditio
112 MDorBust : Usually these words are followed by some attempt at communicating pertinent information. In your case, I see you've set an exception to that traditio
113 UALPHLCS : I understand that Jefferson was the one who coined the phrase "separation of church and state." That that phrase is not in the Constitution. I've use
114 Post contains images TedTAce : Why? You haven't explained your flawed logic in the first place. because the school is educating children an what can and can't really happen as a re
115 102IAHexpress : I’ll break it down so even you can understand. Someone who thinks they have cause of action against a school district that offers an elective cours
116 MDorBust : No really, read this case: McCollum v. Board of Education Dist. 71
117 102IAHexpress : If I remember correctly the facts of that case have to do with the use of public buildings for religious purposes, I think. But even since an opinion
118 TedTAce : No you STILL are missing my point of why my tax dollars should pay for a class that indoctrinates a work of fiction. This is a good counter, but I th
119 Post contains images KaiGywer : Merry Chrismahanukkwanza So in order to learn about different religions, they'll have to deal with indoctrination of one particular religion? This co
120 UALPHLCS : The establishment clause does two things: First) It provides for the free expression of religion. Government can not restrict religious practices. Thi
121 Post contains images TedTAce : There is a difference between education and indoctrination.
122 767Lover : The bill clearly states up front that this would be offered as an elective course only. Your thread title is misleading.
123 Post contains links MDorBust : Stop trying to remember the case and read the case. http://www.oyez.org/cases/1940-1949/1947/1947_90/ Sound very familiar? Sound just like what is pr
124 Yellowstone : Not at all. It would require Texas high schools to offer Bible classes. Although I do see how you could misread the title as implying that students w
125 Cfalk : Let me quote from the bill: The purpose of a course under this section is to: (1) accommodate the rights and desires of teachers who wish to teach an
126 Yellowstone : Yes, but not exclusively. I just don't think you can have a class that studies the scriptures of one particular religion without implying some form o
127 Post contains images MDorBust : I do. I'll put it together for you. Purpose of the bill: "Sec. 28.011. ELECTIVE COURSES IN HISTORY AND LITERATURE OF OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS ERAS. (a)
128 Post contains images Yellowstone : I just want to comment that I never thought I'd be on the same side as MDorBust and UALPHLCS in a non-av debate.
129 AeroWesty : Excellent point! Not to throw this thread off-topic with this question, but just for info, where does Texas stand on that issue? Is creationism somet
130 Post contains images MDorBust : Well, El Presidente supports creati... I mean, Intelligent design, so I must agree.. right? There are some small interests groups that try to sneak t
131 Post contains images UALPHLCS : Yes. However, as I mentioned you can learn about the Bible's influence on American history without studying the Bible. I did in public high school, a
132 AirportSeven : You might want to read section 2 of the bill, not just the up front part.
133 Cfalk : I find Americans woefully ignorant of their own history, I'm afraid. Personally, I would like there to be more in-depth study made mandatory on a lot
134 767Lover : I did read it. I always thought "Enrichment Curriculum" meant "elective."
135 UALPHLCS : I agree. But the same could be said about just about any part of the Public school curriculum. Teaching the Bible isn't going to make it any better.
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